S01.E06: The Flame of Tar Valon

[Ottis]

6 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Being more catty than wise or noble seems incredibly realistic for those at the top of a powerful organisation - especially a political one.

Exactly, which is why I struggled with it. They don't seem like an organization anyone would look up to, and their behavior explains why so many people distrust them. How are they different than White Cloaks?

[paigow]

2 hours ago, ElizaD said:

 I expect Mat will be feeling guilty about abandoning the others while they will be angry but blame this on the dagger's evil influence. 

Rand: Mat betrayed us, but that dagger made him do it.

Perrin: He was a selfish, whiny, self-pitying dick BEFORE this suicide mission...

[Which Tyler]

38 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Exactly, which is why I struggled with it. They don't seem like an organization anyone would look up to, and their behavior explains why so many people distrust them. How are they different than White Cloaks?

So you're struggling with it being TOO realistic?

You know that people generally don't trust them; but find the explanation to be too good, that you find it hard to swallow?

[Boadicea]

When Siuan said that she had been having those visions/dreams, I could distantly hear the voice of Admiral Ackbar.😀

 

And I still think it might very well be a trap. This appears to me to be a dangerous move. While the Dark One may be at his weakest, so is the Dragon. Untrained, inexperienced, uncertain. They could lose what has been presented to us as not only their greatest weapon, but also their only weapon, before the war has even really gotten off the ground.

And while I recognize that, because of the actor change, Mat had to stay behind, the fact that they didn’t bring in the new actor for the last two episodes seems to put the kibosh on “the Dragon is all five of them.”  Because if going against the Dark one with an inexperienced Dragon doesn’t strike me as the best move, it seems even less so if you only have 80% of your fighting force with you.

[DearEvette]

16 hours ago, Ottis said:

I like that the show is establishing the Aes Sedai as the power in this world. I don’t like how the AS are portrayed. The entire opening scene made the AS look more catty than wise or noble. They could have cut off the beginning and started when the “flame” asked Moiraine where she traveled. Aside from that, super slow episode. 

l wouldn't characterize them as 'catty' but rather more engaging in artful one-upmanship.  It is clear the Ajahs are not just groups that are characterized by their color or proclivities, but they have also very clearly shown that they have become political factions within the tower.  They are jockeying for power and influence with the Amyrlin.  This is true of any big organization.  And we also know the Aes can not lie.  So they have to find clever ways to use words and language to convey meaning or to NOT answer questions or to obfuscate. 

 

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Exactly, which is why I struggled with it. They don't seem like an organization anyone would look up to, and their behavior explains why so many people distrust them. How are they different than White Cloaks?

I think they are more feared than admired, which makes a lot of sense.  They are group of women who wield massive power both political and magical.  And they are incredibly secretive and insular.  And yes, very arrogant in their power.

I see a difference between them and the Whitecloaks mainly due to motivation.  As a group, their  entire raison d'etre is to make sure men who channel don't go insane and wreak havoc on the world.  They are the only ones who can stop that from happening.  Also to find the Dragon Reborn and stop the Dark One from gaining ascension.  Since we know Dark friends, Fades, Trollocs actually exist, this isn't some perceived threat that only they believe will happen, but a real one.   And given this episode, at least the Amyrlin was serious about Logain having due process and not just being killed/stilled outright. And in Logain's case he was actually marching on the White Tower with an army.

But so far from what we have seen, the Whitecloaks just seem like they want to just kill witches.  Even if they don't know the women really can channel.  They'll kill on suspicion alone.  So an old fashioned witch hunt.

[Haleth]

21 minutes ago, Boadicea said:

nd while I recognize that, because of the actor change, Mat had to stay behind, the fact that they didn’t bring in the new actor for the last two episodes seems to put the kibosh on “the Dragon is all five of them.”  Because if going against the Dark one with an inexperienced Dragon doesn’t strike me as the best move, it seems even less so if you only have 80% of your fighting force with you.

They surely won’t defeat The Dark One by the last episode. What would they have to do in season 2? I still think they will all need to be together.

Maybe they were quints separated at birth. The power split 5 ways. 🤣

12 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

ut so far from what we have seen, the Whitecloaks just seem like they want to just kill witches.  Even if they don't know the women really can channel.  They'll kill on suspicion alone.  So an old fashioned witch hunt.

Why are the White Cloaks allowed to hunt down the Aes Sedai and murder them with no consequences?  Is there no presiding legal system to intervene?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Haleth

[paigow]

13 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Is there no presiding legal system to intervene?

Maybe the Whitecloaks are the post-apocalypse surviving judges / police / military that started out trying to be a provisional government... got overthrown by a bunch of wizards / sorcerers and now are on a raging revenge rampage... 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Boadicea said:

And while I recognize that, because of the actor change, Mat had to stay behind, the fact that they didn’t bring in the new actor for the last two episodes seems to put the kibosh on “the Dragon is all five of them.”  Because if going against the Dark one with an inexperienced Dragon doesn’t strike me as the best move, it seems even less so if you only have 80% of your fighting force with you.

I think Moiraine will fall back on "the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills" when asked about Mat staying behind. The idea being that, if he was the Dragon Reborn then he would have to have gone with them. It's kind of flimsy, and I'm sure Nynaeve and Rand, at least, won't believe her.

And it's definitely a trap. Fireghost (as the lovely ladies on the Maidens of the Spear YouTube channel call him) is putting these dreams in people's heads and watching them to figure out which is the Dragon. If he got bored and decided to put dreams in Siuan's head that sends all the possible contenders to him, it would make sense.

[DoctorAtomic]

Is anyone looking at the trivia on the X Ray menu? It might help non bookers. 

[DoctorAtomic]

The guy playing Loial is hitting it out the park. 

Nice on Egwene calling out the Seat and the seat. 

I did enjoy the conversation with the girls and Siuan. 'Hey, sorry, but too bad. The world is literally ending.'

Who is the severe Asian lady? Is it the keeper? 

Would the horses know to go back home? That's kind of mean to just send them off. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Humbugged]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The guy playing Loial is hitting it out the park. 

Nice on Egwene calling out the Seat and the seat. 

I did enjoy the conversation with the girls and Siuan. 'Hey, sorry, but too bad. The world is literally ending.'

Who is the severe Asian lady? Is it the keeper? 

Would the horses know to go back home? That's kind of mean to just send them off. 

Yes it is . Jennifer Cheon Garcia is her name and she was in Van Helsing for 2 years

[paigow]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Would the horses know to go back home? That's kind of mean to just send them off. 

If they go back to White Tower, then the exile story looks shaky... Better than guaranteed death going through the Stargate Way

[Dobian]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:00 PM, paigow said:

Why is the ogre going? Is Builder a literal title??? Make a new portal?

Comic relief.  They needed a Worf.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Dobian

[DoctorAtomic]

'Builder' is an honorific. I'd recommend watching the animated short for more information. 

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

Comic relief.  They needed a Worf.

Gimli. Except taller. 

[40Love]

It's cute Egwene thinks she got rid of the White Cloaker with the Napoleon complex by stabbing him in the shoulder. I chuckled when she said "You don't have to worry about him anymore". Heh! He's so coming back if not this season... the next!  

 

[LilJen]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:41 AM, MissLucas said:

Best episode so far - and it belonged to Rosamund Pike, Sophie Okonedo, the costume and the set designer. I loved all the costumes and the attention to detail: like the pattern on Liandrin's frock being lined up to match the central parting. Moraine's blue power outfit was such an inspired choice combining fashion details from various historical influences. Of all the current shows only Avasarala could match her in her fashion power strut. 

I loved the twist that Moraine and the Amyrlin Seat are secret lovers. All their scenes together were a delight and worth of a rewatch. Also great: Moraine for once getting a bit sassy with the line that the Siuan Sanche only waits for one woman (I wonder if Egwene or Nynaeve had the brains to store that for later research). Putting a bit of blackmail on Liandrin also felt good. All the scenes in the White Tower were great. The Great Hall was imposing AF and Siuan's private rooms recalling her childhood home was a fantastic touch.

 Nice to see that red tape also works: they did not forget to reimburse the ferry man's family (apparently the son survived).

Since we're doing LOTR comparisons - clearly Mat is Pippin after having been in contact with the Palantir. I had no idea about the behind-the-scenes shenanigans. I wonder why they did not opt for a simple recast.

 

“Fashion power strut” is my new favorite phrase. And nobody beats Avasarala, though the Amyrlin Seat comes close (not yet enough variety to say).

[rmontro]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:00 AM, paigow said:

Why is the ogre going? Is Builder a literal title??? Make a new portal?

I wondered that myself.  They make for a merry fellowship to follow the Quest, but he doesn't seem to fit somehow.  Oh well, I'm sure there's a reason (I haven't read the books), but he sticks out a bit like the sore thumb.