S05.E10: A Dark Ali

[M1977G]

 

I thought there seemed to be 2 stories in Ali's flashbacks, or rather that the flashbacks as a whole were an edit of the real story and there is no way to know which of the later parts really happened. Ali arriving with Cyrus and introducing him to the others seemed legit, since it contradicted what Ali said out loud. The scar on her upper thigh seems like an odd wound to get in the scene we saw.

ITA. I'm not convinced it was Cyrus who stabbed her at all, and I couldn't help thinking that Ali's kind of tearful response to getting slashed with a knife was underwhelming.  If I had been cut by someone who just robbed and attacked me, and so close to an artery no less, I would have been bawling a whole lot more.  

[Crim]

Also, if Ali was truly stabbed then, and abandoned alone in that basement, I gotta wonder if she got it looked at in an E.R. (Maybe Wren happened to be there and that's how he got involved. *eyeroll*). If Ali bled in there, maybe they could still find traces of it, so that's why she was trying to picture it; but I don't think it happened the way we saw it. Wasn't the scar a slash on her inner thigh? That's such a weird angle if he blindly stabbed at her as they were struggling while standing, him being taller than her.

[GaT]

 

Mona's panic attack fainting was incredibly unconvincing, yo! I don't know what to make of her now, and I'm not entirely certain the writers have a clear idea either. Hopefully we'll get a clearer picture in the episode where, for some reason, we finally meet her mother.

I forgot to say something about this. First, she really made sure to draw attention to herself with her constant singing, then she "faints", & when she wakes up, she immediately demands her purse. What was in the purse that she needed so badly? I'm sure it wasn't the picture of the guy that Hanna found, there had to be something else that was part of whatever plan she had going. 

 

And on a related note, as to Mona's purse, WANT.

[crazycatchick]

Something did seem fishy with Ali's flashbacks and Cyrus. Obviously something happened between the two of them based on the convo before she gave him the money and what looked to me like plane tickets. Also, did she wear wiggy to meet him so no one would recognize her? Because in the flashback she had her normal hair. Like another poster mentioned, it was so telling that she was so upset over him not actually wanting her.

 

As for her stab wound, add me to the she was stabbed-by-Aria-on-the-Halloween-train train. But my guess is that maybe she was trying to save Aria when it happened? And then got stabbed and ran away or hid somewhere on the train. I mean didn't like 400 people have masks on that night? So Ali could have been there. As much as Ali makes such snide comments to her friends, I do think in some weird twisted way she really does care about them. I mean she did visit them after all of their accidents, right? And saved them from the fire.

[superman1204]

Was I the only person who thought that the camera work in Alison's flashbacks was so weird because Alison was high most of the time she was there?  I know there hasn't been any hint of Alison using drugs but the way the memories were presented suggests something is wrong.  While I initially thought rape or sexual assault made sense, would Alison really trust Cyrus if he had done that to her.  Also would she just let him walk away afterwards.  Hell she bought him a plane ticket.  I couldn't imagine any version of Alison (victim, criminal mastermind, ect) helping Cyrus if he raped her.

 

On the other hand, drug use would make sense.  Alison seemed weirdly happy when she introduced Cyrus to the other people living in the building, and I can't see Alison being happy about anything involving that place.  Also, Cyrus almost certainly has a drug problem, at least he would if this was the real world, since he is a man in his mid-twenties with no mental health problems, who lives in abandoned buildings.  He could have been hiding from the police, but then Alison living with him would send her chances of being found through the roof.  Lastly, the fact that Alison was sleeping in an abandoned building with several other people and she didn't feel the need wear pants or shorts, seems to imply she was coming off a round of sex and drug use (presumably with Cyrus).  I know my idea is dark, especially for this show, but it does seem to fit.

 

Knowing this show, we will probably get some lame excuse that Cyrus robbed someone and Alison blackmailed him into helping her in exchange for help fleeing the country and the weird camera work during her flashbacks with never be explained.  In fact we will probably just be lucky to find out if the flashbacks are true or not.

[Agent Dark]

Hell she bought him a plane ticket.  I couldn't imagine any version of Alison (victim, criminal mastermind, ect) helping Cyrus if he raped her.

Maybe she's sending him off to wherever Cece went, so she can take him out quietly and dump him far far away from Rosewood.

[MissL]

 

On a different note, is the actress who plays Ali pregnant?  I found her silhouette tonight to be distracting.

 

I wondered the same thing. Especially when she immediately picked up a pillow and put it on her lab in one scene. 

 

I'm really seriously confused. What did Ali get out of the whole Cyrus thing? She's pissed off all the other liars, which I guess maybe she wouldn't have expected, but it sounds like the plan was never to truly id the guy. He does say it came closer than they agreed too as far as that goes. So Tanner still might think she is lying if she can't ID someone.  

 

I also thought there were all these weird overlaps in her flashback where a scene was one way one second and another the next.  I wonder if she was using Mona's method of making the story real to yourself so you can lie? This show. So confusing and people's motivations change from one minute to the next. Melissa is a loving sister, no she secretly hates Spencer and is evil. No she really loves her...no wait....

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Ali introduced Cyrus to the other two kids in the warehouse during the flashback, Ali and Cyrus were holding hands which makes me think that at least one of them was pretending to be romantically interested in the other. It may be that parts of the flashback and her story were very real, as in Ali feeling upset that Cyrus didn't really like her. It's okay for her to pretend to like people in order to manipulate them, but she doesn't like when other people do it to her.

For some reason I got a Bonnie and Clyde vibe from the warehouse story. Maybe Cyrus and Ali were out stealing or committing other crimes together so she thought it was a real partnership and what he stole was some of the loot.

All I know is that I don't believe Ali's version of what happened which is probably why I automatically started filling in the holes in her story with more plausible details in my head. When has Ali ever told the girls the entire truth, especially when there's a boy involved?

Edited August 13, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Sakura12]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ali was running a crime ring down in that basement. Cyrus figured out she was crazy and wanted to leave. I'm not even sure it was her stuff he was taking. He could've just been sneaking off with his loot while she was sleeping. He's obviously done bad stuff both before and with Ali so she probably has that on him. I think she was going by Vivian Darkbloom that's why Cyrus called her "Ali". 

 

She needed people to believe her story, so she got an adult on her side then gave the police a suspect. So for now at least the cops believe her story a little more. Tanner probably doesn't completely believe but now she has tangible proof with a suspect vs no proof that Ali's lying. She'll still be looking for the lie all she needs to really do is talk to the whole town to find out what kind of person she's really dealing with, with Alison. 

[ladyrott]

Someone please fill me in on what happened after Hanna got with Caleb after the snooping with Mona.  My DISH got cut off due to storm.  :(  I keep seeing stuff about Melissa being killed off and the last thing I saw was her telling Spencer she should come with her.

[Sakura12]

The girls just talked about Spencer's plan to turn in the photos she stole from Noel. Then Emily came in telling them that they need to cut ties with Ali tonight. We then saw Cyrus standing in the woods, a person with dark hair walks up and it's Ali. She tells him she should've left him for dead when she found him, then gave him money to leave town. The next scene was Melissa setting up a video camera to tell Spencer what she knows.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Sakura12

[mjgchick]

The rape between Jenna and Toby is different because it's female on male and it wasn't violent. As sad as it is, that's going to get by the censors easier than a violent male on female rape crime. Not only that, but they've always hinted at things with Ali instead of just outright saying them. (Ali saying that she didn't sleep with Ian, when the camera was going and the sheets were messy..) Sort of like how you could argue that Ezra's been raping Aria...it wasn't violent, and therefore easier to show on an abc family.

I mean, she got stabbed in the thigh, after being pressed up against the wall and having her mouth covered. That's a weird place to be stabbed..not only that, but the show's been hinting at Ali having been raped the whole season. And, she did appear to be traumatized.

I'm not sure about Fosters, but did the show actually show the rape? and was it violent? I'm not saying rape is taboo, I'm saying in the way they showed Ali's, I think it was meant for the older audience to read it as she was raped and the younger audience to just read it as attacked. Because of the fact that they planned on showing flashbacks and it's violent nature.

And no argument that Ali's making mistakes all over the place. But what else is new with these liars.

Sorry but rape is rape. Toby was afraid of Jenna so much that he preferred juvy. Now even to this day she still seems to have a hold on him.

And on The Foster's I think they have a similar audience where it ranges from 12- 49. And they to called a woman raping a young man as rape. The writers unlike PLL even had the character arrested. Mean while on PLL Aria's mom wants her daughter to get back with her sexual predator.

[lorikauai]

I agree that Ali's flashbacks seemed more like she was constructing a story than remembering the past.

I felt Mona "fainted" and told Hanna not to let anyone get her purse because she wanted Hanna to look inside. Mona is smart enough to know that by calling attention to it she would make Hanna suspicious. I do think she wants to help Hanna find out the truth about Ali (and also get info from her). I'm not sure what her long term plan is but I'm sure she has one.

[Mayadog]

Not much to add because you all have summed up my questions and concerned so well.  I actually enjoyed this episode and felt that things are finally moving along (at least for this show).  However, I was so distracted in the scene when Hanna was with Caleb and throwing away food and alcohol.  First, CLOSE THE REFRIGERATOR DOOR!  Teenagers waste so much electricity.  Secondly, everyone knows that reheated fried zucchini is a mushy mess, so Caleb shouldn't have complained about that.  The full container of Chinese food is another story.  

Edited August 14, 2014 by Mayadog

[mercfan3]

Sorry but rape is rape. Toby was afraid of Jenna so much that he preferred juvy. Now even to this day she still seems to have a hold on him.

And on The Foster's I think they have a similar audience where it ranges from 12- 49. And they to called a woman raping a young man as rape. The writers unlike PLL even had the character arrested. Mean while on PLL Aria's mom wants her daughter to get back with her sexual predator.

 

I'm not saying rape isn't rape. I'm saying in terms of story lines..in this case, where they are suggesting a more violent (I know all rape is violent..but Jenna blackmailed Toby, Ali had a knife up to her) rape, particularly where we see parts of it. I would guess they'd want to make more of a suggestion of it, rather than her confession the whole thing. (Like the video where she's sleeping with Ian.)

[lorikauai]

I think we were supposed to believe that Cyrus raped Ali and Ali certainly suggested it to Emily. What could me more scary than A bringing your rapist back into your life? But I think all of that suggestion is negated by Ali herself hiring Cyrus. I just can't believe she would if he had done that to her. Conned her and stole her money maybe. But raped her? No. She would have made him pay.

[Sakura12]

I don't think we're supposed to believe anything that comes out of Alison's mouth. I didn't, so I never thought she was raped. She wanted to be the victim so she let people go to that conclusion without saying anything. When we finally saw Ali interact with Cyrus she looked like she was the one in control, she had the power and knew how to wield it. He was just another pawn in whatever game she's playing. 

 

Alison only looks traumatized when she knows someone is watching her. Her father and Emily were the easiest to get on her side. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

So my least favorite character this week is going to have to Ella.  Aria was about to realize that she should move on from Ezra, but then Ella specifically tells her to give him a second chance.  Seriously!  I thought the only reason she was ok with Aria and Ezra's relationship was because she was trying to be understanding.  Also Didn't she notice what a train wreck her daughter was after they broke up?  That might be a sign that something was out of whack with the relationship.

 

 

Uhg, same! This is one of the reasons I'm seriously worried about the next episode. On one hand, I was initially really happy my prediction that the Zach debacle would lead Aria to realize Ezra is the worst seemed to be coming true. I mean, her little monologue about having a list of things to say to Ezra, I don't think I've ever loved her more.

 

I squeed when Ella told Aria the advice about giving people second chances was her talking about Zach (after she caught him perving on underage girls probably) and when the photo of Ella and Zach fell in Aria's hands while she was talking to Ezra. Also Aria telling him not to talk to Alison was clearly a test from her part, on a subconcious level, which he failed at. By being really creepy to a teenage girl.

 

So the parallels coudn't be more perfect at this point which is why I'm really trying not to freak out about Ella's TERRIBLE advice. For one, I don't think it did much of anything for Aria so it might just be the writers creating suspense about where they're gonna go with Ezria.  My instincts tell me the writers are leading us to reveal once and for all Ezra for who he he truly is and it's gonna be big. If they backdial again, at this point, then I don't even know anymore. I really don't, especially as far as Ella is concerned.

 

Basically what this poster said:

 

Seriously.  Her inability to see any important connection between her ex-fiance who likes high school girls and her daughter's ex-teacher-boyfriend who likes high school girls is beyond astounding.  I'm not sure which is more upsetting:  the idea that Ella brought a man into a house with her daughter knowing that something inappropriate happened with at least one younger girl, and would leave Aria alone with him, or that she encouraged her daughter to believe Ezra might have changed and deserves a second (sixth?) chance.  There is a fierce competition for worst affluent parent in Rosewood, and Ella is a top contender.  Just leave town already and let your troubled teenagers get back to raising themselves.

 

 

Look, I called it, she didn't quite join her but Hanna worked with Mona and found out a lot more information a lot sooner and at a safer distance. Mona and Jenna are pretty much criminal masterminds if they want to find out something they will. Where did Jenna disappear too again? I want to see more Mona and Jenna scenes. One of the episodes should be focused entirely in Out of Town, that place always seems busy.

 

 

You did call it!

 

This episode started promising to be a snooze-fest as far as Hanna is concerned with her wanting to have a normal life and all but then if it didn't take a turn for awesome 2 min. in her storyline starting with a sample of Janel's surprisingly beautiful voice and it never turned back. Hanna's genuine concern for Mona was touching as hell and her going through Mona's purse was awesome. The car scene was just brilliant. These two continued to be one of the best dynamics this show has to offer and I want more as well, along with Jenna!

 

 

I did not anticipate Vivian Darkbloom's wiggy return!  I held my breath through the Ali-Cyrus exchange in the woods, fearing that they were going with the twin or dissociative personality disorder thing, which would make me hate the show.  So, even though Cyrus sounded strange when he called her Ali, it keeps me holding out hope that (1)  the writers aren't going to take the biggest cop outs the show could possibly find,  and (2) that they're not looking to redeem Ali as an innocent victim, which would also make me hate the show.

 

 

Yes, my initial reaction to that scene was complete and utter dread because I thought for sure we were dealing with a twin but then Dark!Ali (clever show! *pets it*) started talking more like herself so I'm holding out hope that was really Ali so I can appreciate that twist because I didn't see it coming at all. And that's a first for me as far as PLL is concerned given I saw the reveals about Mona, Toby and Ezra coming a mille away.

 

Honestly, I think the somewhat different camera work, plus some of the things Ali has said has been hinting that Cyrus raped her. They probably don't want to go that far and come out and say it (being it's abc family, heck..they probably weren't allowed too), but they've hinted at it pretty strongly.

(...) I see Ali as a really complicated character. As awful as a human being as she is, she didn't deserve to be almost murdered, buried by her mother, stalked, and probably raped. Her character traits are what gets her into trouble, but also what keeps her alive. I'm sure she's terrified and desperate to remain in control., but she's also crazy, manipulative, and willing to throw anyone under the bus in order to save her own skin.

 

 

The interesting thing to me is the return of Vivian Darkbloom. Like I said, I wonder how often Vivan made appearances while Ali was away.

 

 

Why yes, I basically quoted your entire post, why do you ask? ITA on the implied rape and your opinion in regards to Ali. I was also thrilled that we got the return of Vivian Darkbloom. I'm actually pretty shocked, week after week, the opinion about her character is so consistenly low on this forum because I find her fascinating.

 

Also, I was just thinking the other day about how I wished they made a mention, any mention, about Vivian Darkbloom which is a storyline that has a special place in my heart because it was batshit insane in the best way (Alison learning how to fly an airplane?) and it was one of the moments in the show that made me seriously believe they had a great plan for Aria's character given her similarities with VD, alas....

 

Alison only looks traumatized when she knows someone is watching her. Her father and Emily were the easiest to get on her side.

 

 

I disagree. IMO, the show has gone through great lenghs to show Alison looking genuinely sad/traumatized when she's all by herself to the point it seemd kinda anvilitious to me. YMMV.

 

On another note, I know most are proud of Emily's smackdown of Alison and while given the context, I can't blame her, something about this episode made me greatly uncomfortable. Through most of it I kept flashbacking to the time Hanna convinced a mightily pissed off Aria not to go to the principal and reveal Ezra in all his gross glory and get him sent to jail (a scene where I was sure the Lord was testing me). This time around, in order for Alison to do the right thing by her friends she would have had to let a man who assaulted her go free.

 

Anyone seeing a pattern here?

 

And when she didn't, her almost-girlfriend yelled at her and cut her off. Like I said, I get where Emily is coming in the context because Alison did most assuredly screw them all by doing that and Emily went to the bat for her time and time again so I'm not criticizing Emily's actions, more like the narrative, you know?

 

Which brings me back to the begining of my post where I talked about being seriously worried about next episode because if along with the above we get the writers backdialing on sinking Ezria once and for all then I'm really worried it will change how I watch this show, IF i continue to watch it, and I don't say that lightly because I truly love it 90% of the time. But enough is enough.

[lorikauai]

I don't think we're supposed to believe anything that comes out of Alison's mouth. I didn't, so I never thought she was raped. She wanted to be the victim so she let people go to that conclusion without saying anything. When we finally saw Ali interact with Cyrus she looked like she was the one in control, she had the power and knew how to wield it. He was just another pawn in whatever game she's playing.

Alison only looks traumatized when she knows someone is watching her. Her father and Emily were the easiest to get on her side.

I agree that's the way I see it too. I never believe Ali, but I do think the show is trying to make her ambiguous. I mean all of the "poor Ali she's been through so much" posts on the PLL Facebook page show that many are buying into it. I am super cynical but I'm also much older than the target audience.

[M1977G]

 

For some reason I got a Bonnie and Clyde vibe from the warehouse story.

Hell, yeah!  Cyrus reminded Ali that he could have told the police all about how they met and the "fun" they used to have, and Ali said she could have done the same, "but then we'd both lose."  This was totally the sign I want that Ali isn't lying about being kidnapped because she's afraid for her life, but because she has to cover up her own misdeeds.  I'm thinking that fraud, blackmail, obstruction of justice, and helping felons flee the country are the least of her crimes.  I think Ali hates Cyrus because he played her and ripped her off, not because he attacked her.  I may be in the minority, but I do not think he raped her.  I think that given the chance, Ali might kill someone who did that to her (and she said she should have left him for dead when she found him), but falling short of that, I really don't think she'd blackmail her rapist and then provide him with false documents and paid passage out of the country.

 

 

I'm actually pretty shocked, week after week, the opinion about [Ali's] character is so consistently low on this forum because I find her fascinating.

I'm fairly surprised, too, except then I think about how Ali is such an unlikeable character in so many ways.  But ITA that she is fascinating, and I've loved that they brought her back this season. 

 

Ezra:  I promise to stay away from high school girls, Aria.... But I just can't, not even for a day.

Edited August 14, 2014 by M1977G

[larapu2000]

Also when Emily was listing everything bad that happened because of Ali, she mentioned all of the Lairs except Aria.  I laughed.

 

Ha ha.    Me too.  That scene was awesome.

 

Ali is upset because her homeless grifter boyfriend left her but yet has Noel Khan on speed dial and she's not hitting that?  Girrrrrrrl, you crazy.  And dumb.  Or both. 

 

I feel like Ali's 3 years on the lam are becoming just like her last day on earth.  She was busy helping/protecting/saving the Liars, running from her supposed assailant(s), chasing down information on her supposed assailant(s), hanging with Crazy Eyed Old Lady in Ravenswood, hanging out with Cece, spending time with Shana, and now?  Running an underground criminal empire?

 

I think this was the first week that Ali has NOT worn a blazer.  Maybe she didn't have any houses to show today.

 

I like how Hanna was complaining about having her life ruined by A and then just decided like, fuck it, she's going to that audition, she's going to be a star!

 

By the way, is my pretty man Holbrook going to show up next week?  I guess we have Caleb around to act as The Single Decent Man in Rosewood.  

[GaT]

 

On a different note, is the actress who plays Ali pregnant?  I found her silhouette tonight to be distracting.

 

I wondered the same thing. Especially when she immediately picked up a pillow and put it on her lab in one scene. 

 

 

I really hope not, she just turned 18 this year, that's why she can be part of the regular cast.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I really hope not, she just turned 18 this year, that's why she can be part of the regular cast.

 

Bit of a sidebar, but can someone explain why Sasha's age previously restricted the amount of time she could spend taping the show ? Lots of other teenage actresses work full-time (look at all the Disney shows), is it because of the show's mature content (what with the murders, violence, sex, etc.) ?

[GaT]

Bit of a sidebar, but can someone explain why Sasha's age previously restricted the amount of time she could spend taping the show ? Lots of other teenage actresses work full-time (look at all the Disney shows), is it because of the show's mature content (what with the murders, violence, sex, etc.) ?

If they're under 18, they are restricted as to how many hours they can work. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

On another note, I know most are proud of Emily's smackdown of Alison and while given the context, I can't blame her, something about this episode made me greatly uncomfortable. Through most of it I kept flashbacking to the time Hanna convinced a mightily pissed off Aria not to go to the principal and reveal Ezra in all his gross glory and get him sent to jail (a scene where I was sure the Lord was testing me). This time around, in order for Alison to do the right thing by her friends she would have had to let a man who assaulted her go free.

 

A man who maybe assaulted her and who most certainly did not keep her imprisoned for two years. And whom she didn't seem to be scared of one bit once there was no audience except for him (in the dark woods where he had ample opportunity to assault her, had he wanted to). Plus, Ali's plan all along was for Cyrus to be released regardless of the pressure from her friends. Why would Alison even show up to meet Cyrus if he had traumatized her so much? Reneging on the deal they had would have been the Alison thing to do.

 

 

When we finally saw Ali interact with Cyrus she looked like she was the one in control, she had the power and knew how to wield it. He was just another pawn in whatever game she's playing.

 

Alison only looks traumatized when she knows someone is watching her. Her father and Emily were the easiest to get on her side.

 

Exactly. I do believe that fans tend to overrate Sasha's acting a lot but still her "woe is me" scenes this season are generally so over the top that I can't help but think she and the directors know fully well that most of it is an act.

[joelene]

Why was she even wearing a wig at the end? Couldn't it have been Alison's eeeevil twin?

[ladyrott]

Why was she even wearing a wig at the end? Couldn't it have been Alison's eeeevil twin?

 

 

That keeps worrying me (and has since the whole Vivian Darkbloom thing started).  I never read the books, but I know a twin is involved.  I am deeply afraid the final episode of this show is going to reveal and Ali's evil twin has been A all along and SHE was the one who dressed up in dark wigs and learned to fly a plane and did half the crap that Ali did on the day that lasted forever.  Since I desperately don't want that to be the case, I am going to go with Ali wearing that wig in the end because she knows Spencer is watching her and wanted to do whatever she could to keep SnoopySpence off her trail.

[joelene]

Ah, yes. That makes sense, I guess. Even so, if Spencer was tailing her or whatever (and she changed her clothing/put a wig on it in a coffee shop restroom or whatever) Spencer would soon enough notice that Alison wasn't coming out and figure out she did something, like change her appearance, to get away. It's not like she could've put the wig on before she left her house. Plus everyone knows about Vivian Darkbloom!

Edited August 14, 2014 by joelene

[ottoDbusdriver]

If they're under 18, they are restricted as to how many hours they can work.

 

Thanks @GaT. I understand that, but I was curious how shows where teenagers are in the main cast of a show AND have a large amount of screen time seem to be able to work within those same restrictions ?  Was her age the only thing preventing her from becoming part of the main cast in the previous four seasons (the writers could have brought her character back from being "dead" any old time) because that just seems odd when you compare it to other shows ?

 

Anyway, end of sidebar. Back to the show.

[Sakura12]

To me Alison looks nervous, worried, and maybe a little scared that all her lies are going to catch up to her, but traumatized, nope don't see it. Her traumatized face is reserved for when people are with her or when she knows they are about to walk into the room she's in. 

 

She was losing Emily a little bit and needed to reel her back in so she told her version of the truth, which is mostly lies with a little truth. Cyrus said they had a lot of fun together doing bad things and he could tell on her, she said the same thing back to him (on top of now being wanted for kidnapping). That didn't seem to me that Cyrus had the power or ever had the power. "I should of left for you for dead when I found you". Ali was controlling him, not the other way around. 

 

I do think Sasha's a good actress because of the subtle face changes she does when people are with her and when they are not. Her mouth is in a thin line that could be a sad face or turn into a smile. Her over the topness when with any of the Liars is also another sign of "Look at me, I'm the victim. Feel sorry for me". Ali loves to control everything. Which is why I think she's uber A and is messing with everyone because she can. 

 

Someone on tumblr found this pic showing that Ali contacted Cyrus a long time ago for that "plan" of hers. She was talking to him when Ezra and Aria saw her on the street right before Jenna click clacked her way back into town.

 

 

 

It's the same car, with the same sticker.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Sakura12

[cuddlingcrowley]

A man who maybe assaulted her and who most certainly did not keep her imprisoned for two years. And whom she didn't seem to be scared of one bit once there was no audience except for him (in the dark woods where he had ample opportunity to assault her, had he wanted to). Plus, Ali's plan all along was for Cyrus to be released regardless of the pressure from her friends.

 

 

 

Of course, given this is pretty little liars and Alison, there's a possibility she might be lying. As of right now, I'm heavily leaning towards Alison not having lied about that guy assaulting her, possibly worst than she even let on. We

are talking about a young girl who spent two years running for her life so the possibility she went through something like that is huge. I personally did not see it coming that what seemed like a very blatant lie (that she was kidnapped and held in a basement) was actually inspired by something more or less similar that she seemed to have went through.

 

Also, the thing about Alison is that I love/hate is that it's simply not as easy as writting off everything she says as a lie. You just never know where the truth ends and the lying begins. And negating that takes 80% of the fun of her character for me.

 

The fact that Alison planned to release Cyrus all along doesn't really change the point from my previous post because the pressure from the girls was never my problem, but the narrative letting a guy who assaulted a teenage girl go scotch free, yet again, was.

 

Why would Alison even show up to meet Cyrus if he had traumatized her so much? Reneging on the deal they had would have been the Alison thing to do.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. It's hardly uncommon for abused people, especially women, to stay with their abusers for years, decades, their entire lives seemingly happy to the outside world because they might feel they don't have a choice, that they need them, love them, etc. I hardly think someone as pragmatic as Alison wouldn't go as far as using someone who has hurt her in the past if she felt she didn't have another option and I don't think that negates that fact she's traumatized by her past with him. The fact that she might have had a Bonnie and Clyde dynamic with him at some point before it got ugly and even while it was ugly also doesn't negate the possibilty he was physically abusive towards her. At all.

 

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but the picture from the funeral home that got Ali acting weird and heading straight to the bathroom showed up in this episode during one of the flashbacks. That and all we've seen from Alison this season makes me think her trauma is very real. Does that mean she's not using the hell out of her victim stick? Of course not. But she has good reason to, as far as I'm concerned. The girls is scared for her life and hardly swimming in options. That's one of my favorite things about her character even though I rarely find her likable: it's hardly ever exactly one thing or the other with her. 

 

 

It's the same car, with the same sticker.

 

Great catch!

Edited August 14, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Desperate people do desperate things. It's hardly uncommon for abused people, especially women, to stay with their abusers because they might feel they don't have a choice, that they need them, love them, etc. I hardly think someone as pragmatic as Alison wouldn't go as far as using someone who has hurt her in the past if she felt she need to and I don't think that negates that fact she's traumatized by her past with him.

 

Of course she would use someone who hurt her if she has to... but she would also most certainly pay them back with interest as soon she can. Unless the fake documents she gave Cyrus are of someone included in the police database of most wanted terrorists or something like that, I don't think this was the case here.

 

 

The fact that Alison planned to release Cyrus all along doesn't really change the point from my previous post because the pressure from the girls was never my problem, but the narrative letting a guy who assaulted a teenage girl go scotch free, yet again, was.

 

He is free for now but is wanted for more than a mere assault (knowing Rosewood PD they probably consider him the murderer of Mrs D, Garret, Ian and Bethany already) , so it's not like he walked into the sunset without a care in the world. And if you mean some distressing gender bias, there is plenty of female characters who have done awful things without any proper comeuppance, including Alison herself. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Jack Shaftoe

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was curious how shows where teenagers are in the main cast of a show AND have a large amount of screen time seem to be able to work within those same restrictions ?

Often with shows with actors under 18 as leads (aka Disney and Nickelodeon shows), they are half hour shows which greatly reduces the amount of time they need to work to produce an episode. In addition, a lot of shows that use teenagers have ensemble casts so they don't need every actor in every scene which also reduces the amount of time each actor is working. For example, if there are three main leads who are all under 18, they can write a scene with A & B, a scene with B & C, a scene with A & C, and two scenes with all three actors so that each actor is in four scenes, rather than all five. That's why so many shows featuring teen actors also have parents, teachers, and other adult characters. Adding them to scenes means having less teen actors in the scenes.

 

On My So-Called Life, the producers loved Claire Danes and wanted to cast her but she was only 13 when the pilot was shot so they ended up giving the rest of the characters more scenes (both the teen characters and the adult characters).

 

Working with actors under 18 is a huge pain in the ass. They can only work so many hours per day, a maximum number of hours per week, and only during certain hours (meaning you can't have them on set at 3am). On sets with underage actors, the union sometimes has people with stopwatches so that they don't go over the maximum allowable hours by even a minute which is why so many shows about teenagers actually cast actors who are over 18 (Gossip Girl, 90210, Vampire Diaries, etc). It's just easier not to have to micromanage every script and every minute of shooting to make sure you aren't violating child labor laws.

 

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but the picture from the funeral home that got Ali acting weird and heading straight to the bathroom showed up in this episode during one of the flashbacks.

I mentioned it in the first page of the thread because I thought it was the same painting but was too lazy to find screencaps from the funeral home episode. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed!

 

I feel like Ali's 3 years on the lam are becoming just like her last day on earth.  She was busy helping/protecting/saving the Liars, running from her supposed assailant(s), chasing down information on her supposed assailant(s), hanging with Crazy Eyed Old Lady in Ravenswood, hanging out with Cece, spending time with Shana, and now?  Running an underground criminal empire?

She must have Hermione's time turner. Even if she had excellent time management skills, there's no way she could be doing all the things we have been told she's done without a transporter beam or some sort of other worldly assistance.

 

As much as I loved Emily finally realizing that Ali is a lying liar who lies, I had the same feeling as I did when Emily yelled at Sydney next week: is it really a good idea to yell at this person? In the case of Sydney, if she was telling the truth and didn't realize the full extent of Jenna's Jennaness and was helping her because Jenna told her what a psycho bitch Ali was, yelling at Sydney just proved that Ali and her friends are emotionally out of control bitches. Wouldn't that just send Sydney running straight to Jenna and put her firmly on the side of Jenna and the "I hate Ali" secret ninja club?

 

Similarly, Emily knows what a manipulative bitch Ali was in the past and how manipulative she's been lately (including the whole Noel Kahn scaring Ashley thing), so is it really a great idea to piss off Ali? I'm not saying she should cower in fear of Ali because I'm really glad that Emily has finally realized that Ali is a selfish lying bitch. I'm just saying that she doesn't necessarily have to bite someone's head off and lose her temper as often as she has been doing lately. On the plus side, at least she's mostly directing her anger at the correct people, unlike Aria (I'm still mad at her for being such a bitch to Hanna about Zach). Don't get me wrong - I like that Emily isn't being a scared wallflower tiptoeing around Ali anymore, but she needs to learn how to take a deep breath and count to ten every once in a while.

 

I loved when Mona guilt tripped Hanna about lying to Caleb and then Hanna reminded her that Mike doesn't know the real Mona. Part of me thinks it would be hilarious if Mike has been on the A team for ages, terrorizing the PLLs just for fun. I mean, he is a guy in Rosewood after all so he must be undergoing mandatory stalker training until he's old enough to start dating younger girls.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Thanks @ElectricBoogaloo -- that actually clears things up a lot.

 

On the other end of the age spectrum, the way they keep extending this series we probably won't find out who 'A' is before Troian hits menopause. </snark>

[cuddlingcrowley]

Of course she would use someone who hurt her if she has to... but she would also most certainly pay them back with interest as soon she can. Unless the fake documents she gave Cyrus are of someone included in the police database of most wanted terrorists or something like that, I don't think this was the case here.

 

Hopefully, Ali will pay him back with interest, but that's beside the point.

 

He is free for now but is wanted for more than a mere assault (knowing Rosewood PD they probably consider him the murderer of Mrs D, Garret, Ian and Bethany already) , so it's not like he walked into the sunset without a care in the world. And if you mean some distressing gender bias, there is plenty of female characters who have done awful things without any proper comeuppance, including Alison herself.

 

No one more than me wants the show to have him punished at some point so I can go back to love watching it in peace. As it is, the narrative clearly framed that letting Cyrus go unpunished would have been the right thing to do. Alison didn't do that, got yelled at and Cyrus has gone unpunished for assaulting her anyway, as of the last episode, which is what I'm arguing. Yes, it was Alison's doing but the narrative still makes me deeply uncomfortable because it mirrors the time Hanna had Aria let Ezra go too. It's starting to become a pattern for older man creeping on young girls to get away with it on the show. We don't have any of the female characters in the same position and getting away with it so if that not a distressing gender bias, I don't know what it is.

 

Hopefully, the show will adress it at some point and all will be well.

[KatWay]

 

It's starting to become a pattern for older man creeping on young girls to get away with it on the show. We don't have any of the female characters in the same position and getting away with it so if that not a distressing gender bias, I don't know what it is.

Eh, both Jenna and Mona got away with a LOT, Jenna maybe less so since she was blinded, but the girl still raped her step-brother and he even still runs after her to save her. Ian, Garret and Wilden were all killed after they creeped on underage girls, so it's not like there are no consequences ever for guys on the show, just Toby & Ezra. At least Ezra got shot and had to grovel, Toby faced basically no consequences whatsoever. But they're the love interests so they fall into a different category for the writers I guess.

 

 

I personally did not see it coming that what seemed like a very blatant lie (that she was kidnapped and held in a basement) was actually inspired by something more or less similar that she seemed to have went through.

 

Not that similar, though. She liked Cyrus and lived in that basement out of her own volition, then there was one night where he stole her stuff and hurt her. Bad, yeah, but one night of some guy physically assaulting her because he wants to run away with her money doesn't equal two years being blindfolded in a basement.

[cuddlingcrowley]

Eh, both Jenna and Mona got away with a LOT, Jenna maybe less so since she was blinded, but the girl still raped her step-brother and he even still runs after her to save her. Ian, Garret and Wilden were all killed after they creeped on underage girls, so it's not like there are no consequences ever for guys on the show, just Toby & Ezra. At least Ezra got shot and had to grovel, Toby faced basically no consequences whatsoever. But they're the love interests so they fall into a different category for the writers I guess.

 

First, I never said there are no consequencer ever for guys on the show.

 

Second, Jenna and Mona are treated like very untrustworthy characters at best and occasionally villains (along with Alison) while Toby and Ezra are, like you said, love interests after the shit they've pulled. I think that speaks for itself.

 

Third, my discomfort with the Cyrus storyline steems from how much it reminds me of the Ezra situation and I fear it will become a pattern on the show if it isn't properly adressed.

 

 

Not that similar, though. She liked Cyrus and lived in that basement out of her own volition, then there was one night where he stole her stuff and hurt her. Bad, yeah, but one night of some guy physically assaulting her because he wants to run away with her money doesn't equal two years being blindfolded in a basement

 

 

I never said what we've been shown about the Alison/Cyrus dynamic, at this point, was equivalent to being held blindfolded in a basement. The term I used was "more or less similar" but I supposed I should have said what seemed like a blatant lie from Alison's side, for several episodes, turned out to have been inspired by some real scary stuff she went through which was surprising to me and makes me think believing everything she says is a complete lie is as innacurate as believing everything she says is complete truth.

Edited August 14, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[Sakura12]

The only scary thing Ali faced was being homeless with no money. All of which was kind of her fault. She choose to terrorize the entire town and she choose to run away. Maybe someone was after her, however the Liars have someone after them and are still around fighting (stupidly) to get their lives back. They didn't run away.

 

Ali brought Cyrus into the basement she was already living in with other people. So she wasn't kidnapped or forced into the basement by him. Then in Alison's story, he was trying to leave of his own free will and she was trying to stop him. She has barely ever told the whole truth, so I can't believe her side of that story. Maybe he did attack her but I'm not so sure she didn't attack him first.

 

Then we she said she should've left for him dead when she found him, and that she found him once she will find him again if he causes problems for her. That doesn't seem like some traumatized rape victim to me. That shows Ali being in control like she always is.

 

Alison is the only person that is in charge of what happens to her.

[cuddlingcrowley]

Alison is the only person that is in charge of what happens to her.

 

Yeah, those are very strong words to say about a 15 year old. I personally have a really hard time seeing how a 15 year (now 17?) was able to be in a position to be in control of much of anything, especially Alison in regards to the crazy things that went on in her life. YMMV, i have almost ten years on this girl so my standard position on her is that she's a very screwed up, confused and messed up child who is absolutely her own worst enemy, no doubt.

 

For what's worth, I've had a lot of experience with toxic friendships and my take is remarkably like Spencer's in real life, but given my priviledged pov as a viwer, I'm utterly unable to be too hard on her even though I very rarely find her likable.

Edited August 14, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I never said what we've been shown about the Alison/Cyrus dynamic, at this point, was equivalent to being held blindfolded in a basement blindfolded. The term I used was "more or less similar" but I supposed I should have said what seemed like a blatant lie from Alison's side, for several episodes, turned out to have been inspired by some real scary stuff she went through which was surprising to me and makes me think believing everything she says is a complete lie is as innacurate as believing everything she says is complete truth

 

Well, either that or the big lie inspiring a subsequent smaller lie.

 

 

Hopefully, Ali will pay him back with interest, but that's beside the point.

 

How is it beside the point? The relative amount of hostility from Alison towards Cyrus when there were no other witness should be a better indicator of what really unfolded between them than her testimony and reactions that were, at least to a certain extent, theatrics used for the purpose of selling the kidnapping story. That was the perfect moment for Alison to make Cyrus pay (if only by simply not showing up to give him his reward). She didn't. Why? To me, the obvious answer wasn't really angry at him in the first place.  

 

 

Third, my discomfort with the Cyrus storyline steems from how much it reminds me of the Ezra situation and I fear it will become a pattern on the show if it isn't properly adressed.

 

Starting?!? That pattern started in season 1, episode 1. 

 

We don't have any of the female characters in the same position and getting away with it so if that not a distressing gender bias, I don't know what it is.

 

The only character that so far has gotten away with non-statutory rape is Jenna. Alison and Mona might be minors yet but they have been in position of power to quite a few people, treated them horribly, treated hundreds of strangers horribly and gotten away with it. Sure, there is conspicuous lack of gender balance in the adults who prey on young teens but since all of our protagonists are female and (apart from the swim team apparently) presumably most of Rosewood women are straight, chances are that if some of them have their own NAT club where they film Noel Kahn and Mikey Montgomery this would be happening off-screen. Come to think of it almost all the known members of that club are dead, Zach was caught red-handed, Wren was eventually rejected by both Spencer and Hanna, it's not like things tend to get rosy for the men, either. Except for Ezra, but I guess I can believe on some level being with Aria is a punishment in itself. And not, not everything in this paragraph, was fully serious, I admit, but I do think the sexual aspect of the whole Cyrus got blown way out of proportion. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Jack Shaftoe

[cuddlingcrowley]

Starting?!? That pattern started in season 1, episode 1.

 

Well, uh, it does take more than one case to create a pattern. Given Cyrus storyline isn't wrapped up yet, I'm holding out judgment...mostly.

 

Jack Shaftoe, I really hate to do this, but the other things you've said in your post I've either already adressed (ad nauseum at this point) on my previous posts on the matter or really fail to see the relevance to the current argument. I will add that  the idea of teenage girls holding positions of power, even in fiction, is absolutely laughable to me, especially in a show where adult males being predatory is not only the norm but romaticized.

Edited August 14, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[Sakura12]

Alison is not a normal 15 year old. She's a television character that has been portrayed as criminal mastermind along with Mona and Jenna. So there is no Ali's only 15 excuse. TV/movie characters are capable of anything at any age. Jenna was raping Toby at 15, Mona became an omnipresent hacker at 16. It is laughable, this whole show is ridiculous and laughable. Nothing about it should ever be compared to what happens in real life.  

 

Ali was blackmailing adults, maiming another classmate and playing dangerous games with the entire town including her friends. She enjoys being in control and being in the spotlight. Alison DiLaurentis makes Regina George look like an innocent child. 

 

There's probably a reason Rosewood's mascot is a Shark, that town is full of Apex Predators. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Sakura12

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

 

Well, uh, it does take more than one case to create a pattern.

 

Wren, Ezra, Ian. There you go, a pattern. All of them in episode 1, season 1. Though, I guess Wren didn't get away with it totally.

 

 

I will add that  the idea of teenage girls holding positions of power, even in fiction, is absolutely laughable to me, especially in a show where adult males being predatory is not only the norm but romaticized.

 

Funny you should say that since virtually the entire show is based on the odd, yet very real (in fiction at least) power that the high school Quueen B has over her friends.  I mean, her minions. Obviously I didn't mean official positions of power. 

 

 

Alison is not a normal 15 year old. She's a television character that has been portrayed as criminal mastermind along with Mona and Jenna. So no, there is no Ali's only 15 excuse.

 

Exactly. Realistic or not, this is what we have been shown. For instance, Garret was an adult police officer, yet he was totally bossed around by Jenna. Conventional wisdom is that in that situation the adult is taking advantage of the teenager. Only here it was presented as the teenager using the adult for her purposes, then stabbing him in the back when she didn't need him any more. Totally wrong and disturbing approach to storytelling? Quite possibly but nobody cannot convince me that the teenage characters are all but helpless puppets of the adults. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Jack Shaftoe

[cuddlingcrowley]

Alison is not a normal 15 year old. She's a television character that has been portrayed as criminal mastermind along with Mona and Jenna.

 

 

Funny you should say that since virtually the entire show is based on the odd, yet very real (in fiction at least) power that the high school Quueen B has over her friends.

(...)

Exactly. Realistic or not, this is what we have been shown.

 

Which brings me to the fact that I personally never bought Alison was all that. Sure the girl talks a good game, but she never seemed to hold any real power as far as I'm concerned. She has always seemed like a scared little girl waaaaay over head who talked a good game to me.

 

And there's a huge difference between whatever hold she has over her little click and her peers as a bully and her having power of adult men.

 

I'll buy it sooner in regards to Jenna or Mona then Alison, because we have in fact seen Jenna make a fool out of Garret, exceptionally. But I still wouldn't claim Jenna has anywhere as much power of her life as you've claimed Alison has over hers.

 

 

Wren, Ezra, Ian. There you go, a pattern. All of them in episode 1, season 1. Though, I guess Wren didn't get away with it totally.

 

 

And Ian, you know, got killed (by Alison? I think, not sure). So no pattern.

Edited August 14, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[Sakura12]

She held power over Aria's dad with his affair, she was interesting enough that Ezra wanted to write a book about her, she held power over her mother, she blinded Jenna, then ran her out of town, Mona was nerd that wanted to be Alison and didn't accomplish that until Alison was gone, and she convinced Toby to take the fall when he was the victim, while also putting a criminal act on his record. Yes, he said he thanked her, but we saw in the flashback she blackmailed him first before he agreed. Ali does more than talk a good game, she finds out information and uses that information to her advantage. 

 

Alison has plans on top of plans, from the pics I posted she had Cyrus in play for a few weeks before she used him. She obviously has something on Noel which is why he's ready to her bidding at a moments notice despite hating her. Her run away plan wasn't that thought out but she looked like she managed to get minions to use.

 

Are Jenna and Mona better than her? Yes. Alison knew Jenna was better that's why she probably had to get rid of her. Mona was the surprise because she didn't think anything of Mona and that helped Mona get rid of her the first time. Now with Mona and Jenna working together she might never make it back to the top but that's not going to stop her from trying. She lost control over her minions that's why she's floundering. They've moved on and moved past her. However the seasons not even close to being over so I have no doubt she'll pull some stunt to get them crawling back to her side. Alison's definitely not above hurting herself to get the results she wants. That is what makes her more dangerous than anyone else.

 

I suppose the fact that some people see Ali as a victim and some of us see her as a mastermind is kind of what they were going for. None of us know what's going on and with the way this show deals out answers we may never really know the answer. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Sakura12

[mercfan3]

I see Ali as both victim and mastermind. So I've been sympathetic to her character, but then not at all surprised that it turns out she's making plans after plans. 

[Mabinogia]

I mentioned it in the first page of the thread because I thought it was the same painting but was too lazy to find screencaps from the funeral home episode. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed!

 

 

It's not only the same painting as the funeral home, it was also featured in Ezra's Mom's art event. That painting has become a very popular prop.

 

Great catch with the sticker. I felt it had to mean something when they focused on it as the car drove off. So, this show does actually know the meaning of continuity? Who knew?

 

I hadn't even thought of Ali being raped by Cyrus until I read it here and was totally "the hell?" Still can't see it. Nothing, absolutely nothing about her interactions with him has even hinted at the thought that he might have abused her in any way, let alone rape. She is totally and completely confident around him. You're not that way around someone who raped you. You're unlikely to be that way around someone who stabbed you. No, I'm just not seeing it at all. I think the part of her story that is most likely true is that he finally had enough of her head games and stole her shit and got the hell out of dodge, so she made up some kind of story that made it sound scarier, the stabbing.

 

What I don't get, if he did rape her or attack her or she wanted to get back at him for whatever, why let him go? I doubt she gave him much they were on the outs, why would he trust her to keep her end of this deal? Does he have dirt on her? Prove that she was free all that time? If so, why would she trust her rapist to go along with the worlds stupidest plan? There is just so much wrong with that plot.

 

What was it the doctor said the stabbing couldn't have been, was it that she said it was recent and he was all, no way, or she said it was old and he said, no this is pretty new? I forget which way that went. I still love the idea that it was Aria who cut her while in the box. That's just a really weird place to cut someone randomly when you are both standing up. There is no way it got there the way Ali said it did.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It's not only the same painting as the funeral home, it was also featured in Ezra's Mom's art event. That painting has become a very popular prop.

It would totally crack me up if that painting was in all three scenes simply out of laziness from the set directors rather that it meaning something specific. That's what happened on True Detective. People were analyzing every minute detail from every scene and recognized some of the paintings so they thought it was a huge clue. Someone asked the producers about the paintings and they said it was unintentional. The same artist created paintings that were used in two different settings on the show and there was no greater meaning or plot twist. I don't think that's the case here, but I would laugh if it turned out to be.

[Mabinogia]

IDK if I would hate the show or love the show if it was them screwing with us. "You want to read into everything we do, well, we're going to throw this painting into every random scene where it makes sense, and then let you all have at it". But, since the best thing about this show is making up wild speculation based on next to nothing, I think Ali was building a story in her head. The flashbacks were her trying to work out the details of her made up story and she pulled moments and things from different events. So it was Ezra who attacked her (because I just hate him so there you go) and it was more convenient for her to accuse Cyrus who was probably her boyfriend at the time. She was the homeless girl who took off with Cyrus leaving Ezra in the basement having had all his stuff taken. Okay, maybe not, but I still don't buy half of what she's trying to sell. Including that she didn't have a sexual relationship with either Ian *I still miss you* or Ezra.

 

I do love the idea that the flashbacks we are seeing are now her building her backstory. It's a really interesting look at the mind of a pathological liar.

 

I'm still confused by her VD disguise when meeting Cyrus, unless she knows she's on a TV show and she wanted to surprise the audience with the reveal. LOL I'm guessing she didn't want anyone to see her and know it was her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm still confused by her VD disguise

At first I interpreted that as Ali having a venereal disease disguise so I was picturing her skulking around Rosewood late at night in one of those giant germ costumes.