Little House Series and Pioneer Girl Readalong

[MargeGunderson]

I'm listening to a public radio show about Laura Ingalls Wilder, and Little House on the Prairie - the books, the TV show, and the new Pioneer Girl book. They have on actors from the show (Dean Butler and Karen Grassely, I think). Its interesting and fun.

 

The show will be re-run tonight at 8:00, and available in the archives. WBUR On-Point:  http://onpoint.wbur.org/

[DakotaJustice]

Amazon might not be shipping until next month, but my best friend ordered hers from the De Smet Ingalls organization and she got hers a couple days ago.

[jammaker]

It looks like Amazon has pushed Pioneer Girl off again, it's saying December 30th now.   So annoying!

[henrysmom]

I received my preordered (from Amazon) copy yesterday.  I ordered it back on August 14, and a second copy I ordered on Sept 29 for a Christmas gift has not yet shipped (in case anybody wants to know where they might be in the shipping stage).

I don't want to spoil the book for anybody so I won't mention specifics.  But if you haven't ordered it yet and have been wondering if it is worth the money, IT IS.  Definitely.  

 

It is a beautiful book--the cover is gorgeous and the book itself is full of pictures and stories about all the secondary characters in the Little House series.  Cap Garland, Mary Power, the Ingalls' relatives.  I could go on and on.  All I can say is that if you've been on the fence about ordering it, get it.  You won't regret it.

[PrairieSmoke]

How did you get the book if it's not released yet? 

Well, I don't know, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it anymore. When it does come, it will be a surprise.

[henrysmom]

I preordered it way back in August on Amazon.  

 

From what I understand, the publisher (South Dakota State Historical Society Press) got their copies in late November, so they started shipping out books to people who ordered from their website, then began sending books to Amazon, Barnes and Noble etc. this week.  I'd assume Amazon is going through and filling orders by date of order, as I got the copy I ordered in August for myself, but not the copy I ordered in September for a Christmas gift.  If you ordered a copy from Amazon later than September it might be a bit of a wait yet unfortunately.

 

My guess is that their new shipping date of December 30 is for people who order the book today, since Amazon probably only got a certain amount of books in and it isn't enough to fill all their outstanding orders, or any new orders that come in.

 

Edited to add this link to the South Dakota State Historical Society Press' blog on the Pioneer Girl project which tells a little bit about their shipping process:

http://pioneergirlproject.org/
 

Edited December 3, 2014 by henrysmom

[jammaker]

 

I received my preordered (from Amazon) copy yesterday.  I ordered it back on August 14, and a second copy I ordered on Sept 29 for a Christmas gift has not yet shipped (in case anybody wants to know where they might be in the shipping stage).

 

This gives me hope that maybe I'll get it soon-ish.  I pre-ordered on Sept 1st.   It's kind of frustrating to have no clue - makes planning what to read next so much harder!

[ElderPrice]

I just got notified that my copy shipped and I should have it in a few days. I ordered it in August, I think. Finally!

[PrairieSmoke]

I gave up on Amazon and called the South Dakota Historical Society. Talked to a kind lady there and they will ship my copy of Pioneer Girl this week.

[Stargazer3]

I ordered a copy from Amazon in September. Several days ago I received an email from them stating that the book was out of stock at the time, there was a new release date of December 30. At that time they would attempt to get me a book, but if they couldn't by January 2 they would cancel my order. Well I had hysterics! I am on a budget and the price plus shipping at the South Dakota site was a bit more than I could afford. So my son, bless his heart went to Amazon, found another seller with the book and bought it for me. It arrived yesterday and is a beautiful book. Unfortunately it is a Christmas present and I could only flip through it! I have to wait to get it. (He said he got it for me so I would stop fretting about not having a copy.)

I did read online that the SD publisher said they got a lot more orders than they anticipated and they didn't have a big first printing. Don't know how true that is. My daughter said "Geez, they should have figured that all the rabid Laura fans all over the world have been waiting for years to get their hands on Pioneer Girl. You think they would have published more." I don't know what their situation was as far as printing but I am glad I have a copy even if I have to wait a bit for it.

[DakotaJustice]

I actually JUST ordered it this week, the Amazon price went down to $23 and change.  My girlfriend is going to loan me her copy after she finishes reading it, if mine doesn't show up.  I have plenty of reading material to plow through as it is, so I can wait a bit for PG.

 

It makes sense that the publisher didn't really anticipate the interest, maybe they were counting on preorders to finance the printing costs and they didn't get many initially?

[ElderPrice]

I got my copy and just started reading it. It's interesting, the tone and cadence are completely different than the Little House books, a completely different voice. I was surprised that some of the stories that I had assumed were made up were actually true and written in Pioneer Girl, such as Grandpa and the Panther. I had a giggle at a passage in which they are visiting someone's house, and all the kids are going crazy upstairs, and Ma goes up and spanks each one of them, including Prisspot Mary. Not only does Prisspot Mary get spanked, it reminded me of childhood gatherings at my grandmother's house, when all the kids were sent down to the furnished basement and we pretty much went nuts and tore the place apart.

[DakotaJustice]

I'm REALLY looking forward to reading Pioneer Girl.  I've seen it mentioned/referenced/paraphrased in so many books about LIW, it will be interesting to read the entire document.

 

If it's okay for me to harken back to a previous book discussion, regarding Farmer Boy and the amounts of food he seemed to put away - I'm sure LIW at least partially exaggerated the amounts and variety at a typical Wilder meal, but then I flashed on a chapter in "A Little House Reader" titled "Thirty Mile Neighbors" written by RWL, in which she describes their huge breakfast - comparing it to the meager slices of toast and bacon of a city breakfast.  I don't remember the exact verbiage but it was a LOT of food, accompanied by cups of coffee and milk and then Almanzo finished off the meal with a slice of apple pie.  This was written in the 1920's so Almanzo was in his 60's I believe?   So perhaps it wasn't so exaggerated after all.

Edited December 12, 2014 by DakotaJustice

[PrairieSmoke]

I just got my copy of Pioneer Girl from the South Dakota Historical Society Press. South Dakotans know how to get things done!

We'll have to do a check in in mid-January to see if more people got their copies so we can really disect it and give everything away.

 

I'm so thankful they put this together. Thank you South Dakota! 

 

Laura Ingalls Wilder, your one special lady. :)

 

[kassa]

I was a procrastinator, so I'm glad you folks are waiting!  

 

I hope this is a windfall for the fine folks at the Historical Society.  I appreciate their doing it right -- all reviews indicate it's gorgeous!  They could have just turned out any old thing and it would have sold, but this sounds like a true gem.

[Snow Apple]

Inter-library loan is such a wonderful thing. I don't know how long it'll take or how many holds are ahead of me, but I'm happy I'll get it eventually. Maybe by that time, more posters will have read it for a really active discussion.

[PrairieSmoke]

There is so much to this book, it's going to take a long time to read it. Reading all of the sidenotes and piecing things together really takes time and concentration. It also helps to have the Little House books nearby for cross reference.

 

That's all I'm going to say right now.

[cathy7304]

I originally was going to wait for PG from my local library, but I decided that I really wanted a copy to keep for myself. I ordered mine from Amazon today. I don't know how long it will take to arrive, but I couldn't be more excited. I also can't wait for the discussions to begin!

[Queena]

I'm still waiting for my copy from Amazon. I think I will get it in February.

[Stargazer3]

I got my copy this morning. It is incredible but is going to take a while to read. The sidenotes that explain the differences between the books and the Pioneer Girl manuscript are so interesting and the maps and pictures give more insight into the people and places in the books. Really worth the wait!

[Stine]

I also received a copy under the tree this morning. It is gorgeous, and I can't wait to dive in, but it is going to take some time to get through, for sure. Looks like it'll have been well worth the wait!

[smittykins]

I'm still waiting for my copy from Amazon. I think I will get it in February.

Me too, unfortunately.(So they're saying February now?  Bummer. :( )

[Stargazer3]

My sister asked to borrow my copy when I am through reading it. Someone she knows who was looking for a copy said to check eBay because there are some copies available there.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stargazer3

[Sharpie66]

I might have to go to the SD Historical page and order it there if the wait from Amazon is that long.

 

I was talking with my mom on Christmas and told her that I was planning out my vacations for the next few years. 2015 is just trips to go see family members (we're scattered all over the country), but I think that in 2016 I'll finally go on the northern Plains/Yellowstone trip I've had in mind for a while. We never did that trip when I was a kid, so even though I live in Chicagoland, I've never driven much past Minneapolis in a northwesterly direction, although I have flown past there on my way to the west coast. I want to go see Mt. Rushmore, the Badlands, and then spend a few days in Yellowstone, and my mom said she'd fly out from her home on the east coast and join me.

 

I warned her that my first stop was going to be DeSmet. I know I can get to Souix Falls in a day's driving, and then we can head north to spend the morning in DeSmet so I can hit all of the LTOTP stops and the cemetary. She laughed and agreed to the stop.

[juneday]

I warned her that my first stop was going to be DeSmet. I know I can get to Souix Falls in a day's driving, and then we can head north to spend the morning in DeSmet so I can hit all of the LTOTP stops and the cemetary. She laughed and agreed to the stop.

I went to DeSmet a few years ago (actually 6 I think, whoa, time flies) and I really liked it. You could see the Surveyor's House as well as the house that the Ingalls family lived in; very interesting. I hope you have fun!

[henrysmom]

I also went to DeSmet a few years ago.  It was a lot of fun.  It seemed to take ages to get there, South Dakota is huge, especially when all you are looking at is cornfields.  But it was well worth the trip.

 

I'd also highly recommend the LIW site in Mansfield Missouri.  When we went (again, a few years ago) the rock house that Rose built for her parents wasn't open.  From what I see on their website, the rock house has been restored and is open to the public now.  When we went we had a wonderful docent who knew her LIW back to front--no question threw that women, and the audience I was with had some pretty intense fans in it.

[Sharpie66]

Hee--I grew up in a subdivision carved out of a cornfield, surrounded by yet more corn (and soybeans), so I'm used to driving through that landscape. Heck, I get excited if I see a road with a gradient higher than 1%!!

 

I was looking at the DeSmet websites, and I was wondering about the Schoolhouse they have as part of the tour. That's not one that Laura taught at, but it was built a few years after she got married, right? Just like Pa's house was built a year after Laura moved out, when he gave up on the homestead.

 

I do want to check out the reproduction of the Brewster (Bouchie) school--it looks soooo tiny in the photo on the site!

 

Also, do you have to take the tour that begins at the Surveyors House, or can you just go to each stop individually and talk to the docents at each stop?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Sharpie66

[juneday]

I'd also highly recommend the LIW site in Mansfield Missouri. When we went (again, a few years ago) the rock house that Rose built for her parents wasn't open. From what I see on their website, the rock house has been restored and is open to the public now. When we went we had a wonderful docent who knew her LIW back to front--no question threw that women, and the audience I was with had some pretty intense fans in it.

Oh yes, I'd recommend the Mansfield site, too. We went through the rock house and muesum faster than I would have liked (I like to read everything lol) because we were with other people who weren't "muesum-y" type people, but it was also very nice and I think I liked it best out of De Smet, Walnut Grove, and Mansfield.

Also, if you like the LHotP television series the Walnut Grove site is good. It has lots of stuff relating to the show as you can see Plum Creek. However, the town of Walnut Grove is still very small and there isn't much to do outside of the muesum. But it was nice as well.

[PrairieSmoke]

Cornfields reminded me of this. 

One thing about Pioneer Girl is that they even consulted with biologists and wildlife experts on the flora and fauna that existed in the areas when the pioneers arrived. When Laura talks about a wolf on the shore of the lake, the side note gives the background on what type of wolf. Incredible details like this is what makes the book a goldmine of information.

[cathy7304]

Sorry if this has been asked before. Do we have a approximate date or real date for when the discussions will start for Pioneer Girl?

[ElderPrice]

I suggest that those of us that have the book may begin discussing it, and those who do not yet have the book and do not want to be spoiled avoid the thread and jump in when they get their copy. We've been waiting for awhile to discuss and it may be a long time more before everyone has a copy.

 

This is only a suggestion and I'm asking permission, not starting discussion myself, but I'm dying to talk about it!

[Athena]

Sorry if this has been asked before. Do we have a approximate date or real date for when the discussions will start for Pioneer Girl?

 

 

I suggest that those of us that have the book may begin discussing it, and those who do not yet have the book and do not want to be spoiled avoid the thread and jump in when they get their copy. We've been waiting for awhile to discuss and it may be a long time more before everyone has a copy.

 

This is only a suggestion and I'm asking permission, not starting discussion myself, but I'm dying to talk about it!

 

It's completely up to you guys. I am taking it on loan from my library so it won't come in for ages, but I don't mind getting spoiled.

 

Feel free to discuss the book; I expect people will join in slowly over the next few weeks and months to keep it going.

[DakotaJustice]

Oh yes!  Please discuss.

 

I've read so many LIW bios and related books (The Wilder Life comes to mind) where PG is mentioned or quoted, that I doubt I can be spoiled at this point.

 

Also...my best friend got hers at the beginning of December...I was at her house watering her plants last night, and the book was there on her coffee table.  She's gone for two weeks out of town.  SO tempting to borrow it, if I wasn't afraid to damage it - I'm one of those readers who usually is consuming something like coffee or dinner at the same time. 

But anyway, it's a beautiful book and now that I've seen it, I'm really excited to receive my copy!

 

Speaking of The Wilder Life - has anyone else here read that book?  LOVE IT.

Edited January 8, 2015 by DakotaJustice

[PrairieSmoke]

Ok, who is the moderator? Do we have the go-ahead to discuss Pioneer Girl?

[Stargazer3]

It will be interesting to discuss the book. I am wondering how everyone reading Pioneer Girl sees Laura and her family since there are quite a few differences between the Ingalls family of the books and the real life family. Does anyone look at them a bit differently? It's also sort of solidified my feelings towards Pa, while he may have been a man everyone liked I think he was a worse provider than I ever realized.

[PrairieSmoke]

Well, my view of Pa is changing. I see him at not the wanna be fearless pioneer who made mistake after mistake, but as just a guy who did his best under the circumstances they faced. He had that chronic itchy foot, but he was willing to do anything it took to try out a place. 

I was going to ask that question. 

[MrsClaus]

Just checked Amazon and a used copy can be had for $399.00.  I think I'll order it.  LOL!

[hendersonrocks]

I love seeing Pioneer Girl getting this kind of recognition (and demand--I'm currently #553 on the waiting list in my library system!).

 

Minnesota Public Radio had Pamela Smith Hill, the editor of Pioneer Girl, on earlier this week to talk about the book. Here is the link to listen; it's a ~45 minute conversation! There's also a four question quiz to test your knowledge of all things (okay, four things) Little House.

 

(Finally, my favorite Christmas present this year was a Garth Williams edition of The Long Winter. I got the full set in the yellow cardboard box as a gift in the mid-80s, and somehow that one got lost along the way. My parents still had the rest of the set--box and all--and they filled in the missing book for me!)

Edited January 15, 2015 by hendersonrocks

[Sharpie66]

Thanks for that interview link! They mentioned an online class taught by the author/editor of the book through Missouri State University about LIW and her work. The first class from last fall concentrated on the early books, and the next one, beginning April 6, will focus on the DeSmet books. The author said that they were expecting maybe 100 students for last fall's class, but ended up with 7,000!! I've signed up for email notification when the April class registration opens later this month.

Here's the link: http://outreach.missouristate.edu/wilderlateryears.htm

Edited January 16, 2015 by Sharpie66

[henrysmom]

I was one of the 7,000 people who took that class!  It was very well done, very informative.  I wouldn't call myself an expert on LIW or the Little House books, but I do have some knowledge, and I still learned a lot.  Some great discussion and comments too.  I'd highly recommend the second half of the class to anybody who thinks they might be interested.

[Queena]

I haven't given up on recreceiving my book before summer. I am happy to read the opinions of others though.

Summer seems so far away, I may have to look into another source, or see if there are LHotP fans in my area.

Don't judge me! I'm hoping I'm the only LIW fan in a 50 mile radius. I want that book!

[cathy7304]

I was notified by Amazon today that my delivery date has now changed to Feb 21st. Ugh...

[PrairieSmoke]

Disappointing news on the delivery dates. Sorry for you guys. :(

 

For those that have the book, are we ready to discuss in earnest? I have some questions I'd like to ask, I couldn't find the answer in the book.

[hendersonrocks]

Obviously we're partial to all things Laura Ingalls Wilder in Minnesota, so it's fun to see Pioneer Girl getting press locally. This story is about how the South Dakota State Historical Society Press turned into "an unlikely blockbuster": Little House, big book. 

[PrairieSmoke]

Ok, this is going to sound a little corny, but remember how the tv show ended with the town being blown up? Well, the last scene was of the little house with a bunch of rabbits in the yard. 

I believe the rabbits signify that LIW and Little House on the Prairie is a timeless classic that will never be forgotten. First, it's the books, then the tv show, then the museums, historical sites, get togethers, movie remakes, and now Pioneer Girl is becoming a runaway smash hit. 

[Mybrainhurts]

Hooray!!!  My copy finally arrived today and it is absolutely gorgeous!  Can't wait to start talking about it!

[MostlyC]

My copy arrived this morning!  Cannot WAIT to delve into it.

[henrysmom]

I finished Pioneer Girl last night and thought I'd go ahead and post my thoughts.

 

Warning, spoilers ahead! Please stop reading now if you don't want to be spoiled.

 

First, I've posted before about the sheer beauty of this book.  Just perfectly done, from the beautiful book jacket to the layout and choice of pictures.  Very well done, South Dakota Historical Society Press!

 

The book itself had so many elements I'm going to comment on them individually.

 

I loved the opening essay about how "Pioneer Girl" came to be.  Now, I was never a fan of Rose Wilder Lane.  Some of her correspondence and diary entries really made me dislike her.  And I wasn't a fan of her books or short stories, finding the ones I've read fairly dull and pedestrian.  But the essay really made me rethink what I'd previously thought about her.  While RWL may not have been the most likable person in the world, she really went above and beyond for "Mama Bess'" book.  At a time when her own career was faltering and her savings were disappearing (both because of the Great Depression) she not only typed up her mother's first draft but edited it and tried to find a publisher for it--all when she could have/should have been writing her own material.  And when her agent wasn't proving helpful enough she found another agent.  And whenever she thought her mother might need advice she couldn't give, Rose found the answers for her.  Very impressive.  She could have just dumped this manuscript with her agent and, when he turned it down, said "Sorry mom" and gone on with her life.  But she didn't.  I think that says a lot about RWL's integrity, and her love for her mother.  Even without the editing/ghostwriting controversy, the Little House books never would have found a publisher without the driving force of RWL behind them.

 

As to the book itself, Pioneer Girl is very clearly a first draft.  A rough first draft.  There are certainly sparks there, and it is clear LIW knew how to tell a story.  But I can easily see how publishers wouldn't be too impressed with this draft as it stands.  It needed a lot of work before it could be published, and I can see why publishers backed off.

 

For me the most fascinating parts were the sections not covered in the Little House books, like the Iowa interlude.  I loved the "sneaking out of town in the middle of the night" story, and all the stories LIW told about the family's rough time in Iowa.  She really became an adult way too early.  The stories about her starting to work so young are really heartbreaking to modern eyes, but I know that was really the norm back then.  Even so, it is very clear Laura was the family workhorse.  Ma and Pa really depended on her not only to help around the house but also to take outside work if it was offered.  The other girls really seem to have gotten off lightly in comparison.

 

But it is also interesting to take a story that was in the LH books and see how it was expanded.  I'm thinking of two stories that showed up in On the Banks of Plum Creek--the party where Laura manages to get Nellie into the creek so the crab and the leaches can get her, and the story about Charlotte the doll.  The party scene is certainly expanded in Plum Creek, but the humor of the situation (and Laura's plucky deviousness) are already apparent in PG.  

But the Charlotte scene--wow did that get redone!  I'd love to know who was behind that, Rose or Laura, or both?  In Pioneer Girl, the loss of the doll (she had a different name but I'm blanking on what it was) was just matter of fact.  Kind of "I had this doll, then I gave it away, and found it in a puddle".  But in Plum Creek the whole scene is just heartbreaking on so many levels.  Here is this girl who pretty much has nothing, just this one doll.  And her mother "gently encourages" her to give it away to the neighborhood brat, who cares so little about it she tosses it down outside her house and just leaves it to freeze in a puddle.  But Laura rescues the doll (this doesn't happen in PG) and her mother helps her fix the doll up and confesses that she was wrong to have Laura give the doll away.  So many layers to that story in Plum Creek.  You see the poverty of this family, but you also see the love.  And while Ma says she was wrong, Laura does realize that she is getting older, and the doll is something from the past. So beautifully and simply written, and so very powerful.

 

I was going to post more about the book but since I've pretty much written a book already I'll save it for later posts.  

[Stargazer3]

I am going to reply to henrysmom's post so be warned there are spoilers so please don't read any farther if you haven't read Pioneer Girl.

One of the worst parts for me was reading about Laura's doll, named Roxy, or Roxey. (She spelled it both ways.) In On the Banks of Plum Creek, Ma makes Laura give her doll away, and Laura does mind. She is upset because Pa is gone and so is Charlotte. But in the novel she gets her doll back. In real life she sees Roxy in a puddle but doesn't get her back.

Reading the novel broke my heart the first time since I was the oldest of 4 girls and my much younger sisters always wanted my things and my mother insisted that I give everything to them since I was older. So I was hideously angry at Ma when she made Laura give up her doll. When she got her doll back, I actually cried in relief, and still got teary eyed when I read that chapter.

To discover that she never got her doll back now makes me angry. The poor child had little enough in her life without having to give up her possessions.

What I did feel reading Pioneer Girl was how strong Laura was and how responsible she was for keeping the Ingalls family going. She worked at various jobs, being employed at times when her father didn't even have work. In Dakota Territory, when she saw Pa leaving the table still hungry to leave food for the family, Laura did so too. She ate raw turnips to stop her hunger. While Ma did help keep the family going, it was really Laura, after Pa's sporadic income, who shouldered responsibilities much over her age and kept the family going. I really admire her more than ever.

[henrysmom]

A news story that includes sales figures for the book.  I knew demand was high but I had no clue it was this high.  The first printing of 15K books sold out, as did the second printing of 15K.  They are hoping another 45K books will meet the remaining people on waiting lists.  Just amazing.

 

http://www.npr.org/2015/01/28/382160369/little-house-big-demand-never-underestimate-laura-ingalls-wilder?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20150128