S04.E08: Hit And Run

[Netfoot]

29 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

to have the white male cop who is barely an officer lecturing the Latina female detective...

Funny how I didn't see that at all. I just saw two friends and colleagues talking. I do agree the subject was none of his business, and she was quite reasonable telling him to butt out. But friends do stick their noses into each other's business, and it wasn't all that long ago that Nolan risked life, limb, and career, to rescue her. Not on the job, but completely off-book and at great personal risk to himself. Which I think should be enough for him to think she was a friend who he could get a bit nosy with.

[HurricaneVal]

Is nobody going to mention that Smitty was giving away used water bottles filled from his own bathroom tap?  I about died laughing with that little byplay, especially when just a little while after the reveal, they showed Tim grabbing the water bottle out of his sister's (?) hands with a quiet "Don't drink that."

What was Smitty's justification?  "What, they're meant to be recycled!"  Comedy gold.  Unless you drank the water.....

[Raja]

5 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

Is nobody going to mention that Smitty was giving away used water bottles filled from his own bathroom tap?  I about died laughing with that little byplay, especially when just a little while after the reveal, they showed Tim grabbing the water bottle out of his sister's (?) hands with a quiet "Don't drink that."

What was Smitty's justification?  "What, they're meant to be recycled!"  Comedy gold.  Unless you drank the water.....

I can't help but think of Edith Bunker asking how water knew to go to the bathroom as if it were different than kitchen water. But then I grew up before we feared tap water.

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I seemed to get the impression that Tim is older than Gennifer just by the way he talked about their dad.  (And can I just say, I hate Jennifer spelled with a G.)  I just pulled up the episode on Hulu, and when Bradford asks Genny what she's doing at the police station she says "I just wanted to see my big brother".   

This was my impression too. Peyton List couldn't pull off being Eric Winter's older sister.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Surrealist

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I immediately disliked the sister for a few reasons, but particularly because until Tim called her out, she was gaslighting him about their childhood.  To me, that was worse that her trying to convince him to see their father. 

This is exactly what drove me nuts about Genny.

[ribboninthesky1]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Funny how I didn't see that at all. I just saw two friends and colleagues talking. I do agree the subject was none of his business, and she was quite reasonable telling him to butt out. But friends do stick their noses into each other's business, and it wasn't all that long ago that Nolan risked life, limb, and career, to rescue her. Not on the job, but completely off-book and at great personal risk to himself. Which I think should be enough for him to think she was a friend who he could get a bit nosy with.

Not seeing the correlation, especially since it was a team effort.  No one would have even known where Lopez was if Wesley hadn't agreed to the Elijah deal.  The audience knew the Angela/Wesley riff was connected to La Fieragate, but Nolan did not.  Once she told him to mind his business, that should have been it.         

On 12/6/2021 at 12:27 PM, chaifan said:

Wesley:  I'll be disbarred!  Oh, boo hoo.  You're independently wealthy.  You don't have to have a job, any job, let alone keep being a lawyer.  If you're valuing a law license you don't need over the lives of your wife and child, you deserve to be taken out. 

I forgot all about Wesley being wealthy.  OTOH, he presumably values the work he does because he's not doing it for the paycheck.  So I am kind of sympathetic in that regard.  Still, if he would have told her the truth early on, much drama could have been avoided.  But this is TV, so drama it is!

On 12/6/2021 at 6:27 PM, Lethallyfab said:

Also, realistically, the entire premise of the show is how often Nolan breaks, doesn’t follow, ignores the rules or simply doesn’t think they apply to him.  And he’s supposed to be the best candidate?  Within two minutes, he’d be all “yes, I know, technically, our union bylaws say we should do this, however, *I* am going to do this, consequences be damned!”

I think you've predicted a future storyline.     

[Netfoot]

5 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Not seeing the correlation, especially since it was a team effort.

Simply saying that Nolan is obviously more than just a work colleague (as are the others on said team), and more likely to ask personal questions - yes, about issues that are none of his business - than a pure workmate with whom you have no more of an intimate relationship.

[paigow]

15 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I think you've predicted a future storyline.     

Depending on how many more seasons are coming, Nolan will become President of entire LAPD union. Then the writers can recycle West Wing scripts.  Or Hoffa

Edited December 8, 2021 by paigow

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I forgot all about Wesley being wealthy.  OTOH, he presumably values the work he does because he's not doing it for the paycheck.  So I am kind of sympathetic in that regard. 

I just really don't like the character.  Never have.  He's always been a bit of a weenie.  He finally showed a spine when he made the deal with the drug kingpin to find Angela.  I think a great plot line would have been for him to have been playing a long con on the drug lord, that he had a plan all along to take him down once Angela was safe.  It could have had him sacrificing his law license, doing the stay at home dad thing for a while, and then using his family money to establish a legal aid clinic (which he could run without needing a law license), or some other non-profit to help ex cons, or something like that.  But instead we get Whiny Wesley, who for some unknown reason, values his law license over the lives of his family. 

[bros402]

On 12/6/2021 at 6:03 PM, shapeshifter said:

I wondered if the character's "I am not a citizen of your corporation" was made up by the writers so as not to be able to be linked to any particular group, or if it's a term used by a number of such groups, but I can't be bothered to google it. 
Regardless, I'm pretty sure your nonplussed reaction to this turn of phrase is *exactly* what the writers were going for, @Netfoot, that is, the guy using that terminology was not supposed to be making any rational sense.

It is pretty much word for word pulled out of sovereign citizen stuff. Although they usually say "I am an agent of the corporation known as person" and stuff like that.

it's pretty insane

Also, the cinematography in this episode was.... interesting. However, for camerawork like that, couldn't the writers have watched shows where it has been done much better, like Person of Interest? Since there were parts of this episode that were dizzying

Another thought I had: Is it kosher for Tim to endorse someone in the union election? He's a sergeant - aren't they part of another union/isn't he semi-management? So wouldn't he be interfering in the election?

Edited December 8, 2021 by bros402

[paigow]

1 hour ago, bros402 said:

Another thought I had: Is it kosher for Tim to endorse someone in the union election? He's a sergeant - aren't they part of another union/isn't he semi-management? So wouldn't he be interfering in the election?

Lopez is a Detective and seems to be voting for Nolan, so membership is broadly defined... probably any rank below Lt.

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I'm not a Lucy fan at all.  Still, I thought she was the least Butinski of the three (I'm including Nolan and Aaron).  I immediately disliked the sister for a few reasons, but particularly because until Tim called her out, she was gaslighting him about their childhood.  To me, that was worse that her trying to convince him to see their father.       

Everybody copes differently - I think she was gaslighting herself as much as Tim, bless her heart. When my brother was dying, I spent a week with him. It was a blessing, and we had a hell of a good time smack talking our father. It was pretty healing to share our experiences.

14 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

I was actively shocked when Lucy tried to tie Tim's father's abuse of him to Tim's "Tim Tests." I mean, holy shit, lady, I can't ever imagine saying to a close friend of mine, "Oh, those tests you give trainees, they're just like how your father abused you when you were seven! This somehow sounds like a rational point in my head!" Dang, Lucy!

I once had a friend who joked and said I was just like my father (I forget in what respect, but he knew about my father's issues). I was very hurt and offended. Never felt the same about that friend.

12 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

Is nobody going to mention that Smitty was giving away used water bottles filled from his own bathroom tap?  I about died laughing with that little byplay, especially when just a little while after the reveal, they showed Tim grabbing the water bottle out of his sister's (?) hands with a quiet "Don't drink that."

What was Smitty's justification?  "What, they're meant to be recycled!"  Comedy gold.  Unless you drank the water.....

I wasn't sure what to say about the bottled water, but that was hysterical. I kept wondering when they'd follow that up with another punch line.

[Raja]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

Lopez is a Detective and seems to be voting for Nolan, so membership is broadly defined... probably any rank below Lt.

That is how real life LAPD organizes. Lieutenant and below would a rough equivalent to military enlisted and part of their union. With Captains, Commanders and Chiefs as  officers whose assignments are more  politically advised.

[dshgr]

I'm over the "but they're family!" BS.  It took me way too long to realize I was allowing my family to do things I would never accept from a friend.  I let them back in when my father was dying of cancer.  Big mistake.  

If you've made the break, NEVER GO BACK!

[sharkerbaby]

Re: the private conversations while being recorded whether in the shop or on body cam...  IRL those cameras are not on during the entire shift but are turned on by the officers when official interaction with the public is anticipated.  For shop cams upon dispatch or when the officer begins an "investigation"/pursuit.  For body cams sometimes upon dispatch or some precincts generally upon exiting the unit.   These procedures are set up this way for a very practical and cost conscious reason; simply put the storage requirements for the video feeds (even low quality feed) is astronomical and prohibitive for constant recording from beginning to end of shift.  The other very relevant aspect is union rules and privacy, neither of which are easy to overcome.

On 12/6/2021 at 5:17 PM, nittany cougar said:

I thought it was really stupid to allow a civilian family member to ride in a squad car.  I did enjoy the sibling dynamic though.

On 12/7/2021 at 7:26 AM, Clanstarling said:

That was a big beef of mine. What if they'd had to arrest a violent criminal (or if that drunk lady had been arrested and been barfy in the backseat). Heck, they came under fire when she was in it.

These are called "ride alongs" and are very common in the law enforcement, fire and paramedic world.  They are an outgrowth of community policing and foster a sense of transparency.  If a unit is dispatched to a scene or initiates a stop there are very specific procedures regarding the engagement of the "ridee" and where, when, and how they are protected, frequently they are left in the car and can only observe from there.  If that scene were to play out in real life and the lady needed to be taken into custody they simply would have called for another squad to come to the scene and transport her.  

Now, where I did very much have a beef is that you don't just show up in the parking lot, jump in the back seat and go.  I don't care if the person you are riding with has the authority to authorize a ride along or not, there is still, at minimum, paperwork that needs to be completed.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by sharkerbaby

[Clanstarling]

20 hours ago, sharkerbaby said:

Re: the private conversations while being recorded whether in the shop or on body cam...  IRL those cameras are not on during the entire shift but are turned on by the officers when official interaction with the public is anticipated.  For shop cams upon dispatch or when the officer begins an "investigation"/pursuit.  For body cams sometimes upon dispatch or some precincts generally upon exiting the unit.   These procedures are set up this way for a very practical and cost conscious reason; simply put the storage requirements for the video feeds (even low quality feed) is astronomical and prohibitive for constant recording from beginning to end of shift.  The other very relevant aspect is union rules and privacy, neither of which are easy to overcome.

These are called "ride alongs" and are very common in the law enforcement, fire and paramedic world.  They are an outgrowth of community policing and foster a sense of transparency.  If a unit is dispatched to a scene or initiates a stop there are very specific procedures regarding the engagement of the "ridee" and where, when, and how they are protected, frequently they are left in the car and can only observe from there.  If that scene were to play out in real life and the lady needed to be taken into custody they simply would have called for another squad to come to the scene and transport her.  

Now, where I did very much have a beef is that you don't just show up in the parking lot, jump in the back seat and go.  I don't care if the person you are riding with has the authority to authorize a ride along or not, there is still, at minimum, paperwork that needs to be completed.

 

I put up the ride-along paperwork on a city website. The documents are pretty detailed and require the participant to sign saying they won't sue the department. So that was my big beef too - but I didn't know about the calling another car to come to the scene. Thanks.

[Netfoot]

We had an episode (last season?) Where it was explained that the body-cameras buffered two minutes of video at all times, overwriting after two minutes unless a button-press forced the buffer into permanent storage. 

This would ease the burden of storage costs (although storage is pretty cheap nowadays). It wouldn't explain the availability of random, non-job-related snippets for inclusion in the episode. 

I think it's more a case of tale-telling without explaining the presence of a camera. We don't ask where the video came from or how it was collected when the episode is presented normally...

[sharkerbaby]

That's exactly how it works (the buffering part) which is how they can be sure to get whatever immediately leads up to an unexpected interaction with the public.  It's a bit of semantics but that is why they don't say body cams and dash cams are recording continuously, the footage is not being saved therefore not recording.  It is exactly the same way that traffic cameras work whether they be red light cameras, speeding cameras, proximity security cameras, etc recording doesn't happen unless a trigger occurs (i.e. crossing the white line when the light is red), once that trigger happens everything in the buffer as well as the following x number of minutes gets saved to the storage medium.

While it's true the cost of storage has decreased considerably, it is still an astronomical amount of storage to record and save continuous footage times however many officers are on patrol.  Conceivably, one could argue that the officer or other administrative personnel could review the footage after shift, daily, weekly, whatever but then you have the payroll and associated costs to have someone(s) review and delete video whereby 90% of it contains nothing of probative value or has no evidentiary relevance.  

Edited December 11, 2021 by sharkerbaby

[femmefan1946]

On 12/6/2021 at 3:17 PM, nittany cougar said:

I thought it was really stupid to allow a civilian family member to ride in a squad car. 

So if the officers then have to arrest someone, does that guy ride in the back with the family member. That would be interesting, since a lot of those arrested are going to be random drunks or lowlifes who hit on the family member.

 

Smitty was giving away used water bottles filled from his own bathroom tap? 

Doesn't Smitty live in an RV in a parking lot next to the station? Where does his water come from?

Edited January 23, 2022 by femmefan1946