S07.E06: Deus Ex Latrina

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When the Legends and Gwyn finally time travel, the time machine goes haywire leaving them stranded in a lush forest with no idea when or where they are.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

Opening with Bishop. This better be leading to the evil Waverider. It is! And it looks like we'll be seeing his and Assistant Ava's side of the episodes. The way she responded to Other Gideon reminds me of Ava's Sara Jealousy so maybe that's a trait among all the clones?

NotCon throws a good tantrum. He's funny.

On the one hand, separate Sara and Ava so I can enjoy the subplots but, on the other, if they keep arguing maybe they'll get divorced and Sara will be free? Yeah, the former is more realistic.

Glad Other Gideon was against Bishop's actions as he captained the evil Waverider.

Oh, Other Gideon had the idea of robots taking the place of dead figures. 

Assistant Ava invokes the movie "it's alive" but I think it works. I can buy Bishop as Frankenstein-esque. Frankenstein was the real bad guy of the story after all. Oh maybe Assistant Ava is the real bad guy! I can see it.

Gideon munching on leaves is cute.

Shayan and Tala are fun together. We need more Zari and Behrad than Zari and Nate.

Ok, I know it's supposed to be a sign of her being evil but I love watching Other Gideon cosplaying Laura Roslin and sending Assistant Ava out the airlock. 

Tala and Matt work well together no matter who they're playing.

Sara and Spoons seem to be having a nice time on their hunt while Astra got Ava to chop firewood. 

Gary enjoys eyebrows and bellybuttons when he's wearing his human suit. Completely in character.

NotCon has shell shock (what they called PTSD a century ago) from his time in the Great War including losing Alan. Poor guy. 

Bishop IS Frankenstein! He created something to satisfy his own ego, mistreated it, and has now lost control.

Ew, Gary and Gideon hooked up. I know you're new to this, sweetie, but you can do better than him.

Trying to save the people of Chernobyl who weren't saved originally is a good idea no matter what the Evil Waverider does.

Nate your timing sucks. Let Zari help fix things and then agree to move in together.

Bishop's private area of the ship was really his escape hatch and now he's with the Legends. 

[paulvdb]

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Ok, I know it's supposed to be a sign of her being evil but I love watching Other Gideon cosplaying Laura Roslin and sending Assistant Ava out the airlock. 

It's been a while since I watched it, but the dialogue seemed more like Hal from 2001 to me.

[kirinan]

5 hours ago, paulvdb said:

It's been a while since I watched it, but the dialogue seemed more like Hal from 2001 to me.

That's what my husband and I thought. As soon as Gideon said, "I'm afraid I can't do that, Ava" (or whatever it was), we looked at each other and laughed. We also thought Amy Pemberton pulled off the intonation quite well. 

Speaking of which, Amy is absolutely the MVP of this season, in my opinion. She is so reliably funny as human Gideon (her eating the leaves made me laugh out loud), and then absolutely chilling as Bishop's Gideon. And her singing! I so hope this show helps her get other roles post-Legends. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by kirinan

[scarynikki12]

6 hours ago, paulvdb said:

It's been a while since I watched it, but the dialogue seemed more like Hal from 2001 to me.

Other Gideon is supposed to be Hal-esque for sure but anything involving a character being thrown out of an airlock reminds me of Roslin.

[Lady Calypso]

What started off with what I thought was gonna be a weak episode (too much Bishop, weird Ava/Sara fighting in the background scene) turned into yet another strong episode. That is what I love about this season; it's surprising me with their choices. It really feels like peak Legends again. The show hasn't been THIS consistently good since season 3, maybe season 4A. I think the show getting back to its time travel roots has done WONDERS. I actually don't miss them being on the Waverider, and the show has gotten back to its balance of funny and serious, without John's dark magic stuff taking away screentime (and I genuinely loved John; he just never quite fit with the tone of the show that it established by season 3). 

Human Gideon is so precious. Amy looks like she's having a blast with playing this version of Gideon. And...what started out last episode as a cringe romance between Gideon and Gary turned out to be something quite sweet. This is the Legends I love; finding unexpected pairings and turning them into something quite extraordinary. Now, the romances for Legends have been hit or miss more recently, but this one? I think, since I expect it to be a temporary thing (I just assume Gideon won't stay human for the rest of the series, unfortunately), I don't really need to be worried about Gideon/Gary being a nuisance. 

The other thing I LOVED about this episode was Zari and Gwyn's scenes. Zari's focus since season 4B has been about Nate. Since her romance with Nate started, she started having less scenes with others that didn't center around Nate. The only other times lately she hasn't been having scenes with or about Nate were the totem scenes with Zari 2.0. Even Zari/Behrad scenes have been minimal. So having 90% of Zari's story this episode be with Gwyn? That reminded me of why Zari is one of my favourite television characters ever and how good Tala Ashe AND Matt Ryan are. Zari/Gwyn give off TOTALLY different vibes from Zari 2.0/John and it shows. Plus, both characters got some really fantastic moments and really went back to early Legends roots. Plus, Gwyn's backstory with his best friend/potential lover, especially in a time where that wasn't allowed? Beautifully done, and I love that it was Zari to be there for him. Connecting their stories was a brilliant choice. Again, I miss the time of the series where they connected veteran Legends with newly recruited Legends through shared stories or similarities. Nowadays, they kind of just toss Ava at the new recruits. So it's nice to see the others step up. 

Also, loved the reveal of their location and Behrad's tone when he was telling Zari/Gwyn about where they were. We desperately need more Behrad. 

I am sad that it seems like Zari/Nate will leave this season and live in the totem. This episode showed that Zari still works for the show, and Nate may be underused, but he still kind of is the de facto Captain to when Sara/Ava are occupied in some ways. 

Young Bishop and AI Gideon, along with Clone Ava actually had some decent scenes. I started off annoyed but I like how they went about it, with Young Bishop wanting to remain good and AI Gideon turning evil. It was kind of expected, but they handled it quite well.

[lurker22]

Too. Much. Ava. And Bishop. I wish we're done with them. The best part was when Evil!Gideon duped Ava to the airlock and sent her off. Ava was getting too smug towards the end there.

This was a boring episode for me, because Sara was barely there. Also, almost everyone got to talk about their feelings and frustrations, even Ava, yet Sara only got a 5-second hunting scene and she magically felt better. It was a missed opportunity too, because Sara would have something to talk to Spooner about, what with one of them being an alien hybrid and the other kidnapped/saved by alien mushroom.

I know Davies went through something horrible, but I need him to calm down. Personally, I'm not a fan of such over-the-top characters. 

It's easy to tell who the writers' favorites are, Ava gets all the screen time, and Constantine/Davies get all the juicy storylines.

Gideon remains the best part of the season, be it innocent Good!Gideon, or Evil!Gideon (are they trying to channel Janet from the Good Place?). Evil!Gideon is a much more worthy and interesting villain than Bishop/Ava. It was nice to see callbacks to last season though. And yes, Evil!Gideon, there should only be ONE captain on the Waverider.

Edited November 18, 2021 by lurker22

[tennisgurl]

Please let the payoff of all of the scenes of human Gideon singing (beyond the joy of her beautiful voice) be evil Gideon singing Daisy Bell as she does some evil before getting shut down. She was seriously channeling that HAL from 2001 energy, even the tone of her voice when she flushed Ava out of the airlock. 

I admit that I was apprehensive about this one, I was not excited about an episode with so much focus on Bishop and another Ava clone, but it actually turned out to be a really good episode, even if I do miss the 1920s. This version of Bishop, while still pretty annoying, is certainly less annoying then evil future Bishop and I am glad that he finally saw the light about what was really going on. The real highlight though, was Evil Gideon, who is a WAY netter villain then Bishop ever was, Amy is having an amazing season going from sweet human Gideon to creepy robotic Gideon, I cant wait to see what her next move is. Although I do agree with her one one thing. The Waverider only needs one captain, and that captain isn't Ava.

Human Gideon continues to be just adorable, and while the idea of her and Gary hooking up to explore human feels sounds kind of icky, it turned out to be rather sweet, especially as I don't see it becoming another romantic plot entanglement that will go on too long. The background fighting between Sara and Ava was weird and random and just seems to exist to continue proving that Ava is a shitty captain who cant handle pressure. 

It was so great seeing Zari in such a meaty plot, one that had nothing to do with her tepid romance with Nate, she and Matt just work so well together no matter what characters they're playing. I continue to give Matt huge props, I really don't see any of John in Gwyn, even beyond just the different costume and glasses. That was a really great plot, Zari was a great person to bond with Gwyn over his regrets over the loss of his comrades in WWI, as well as his best friend/possible love, plus dealing with some nasty shellshock, it was all really well handled. Poor guy is really going through it. Also, I really like that they decided to make him Welsh, not a lot of Welsh people on American TV, its probably the least represented of every country in the UK that I have seen. 

I would be sad if Nate leaves permanently, I might dislike Nate/Zari but I do really like Nate and it would suck to lose someone else who has been on the show for such a long time. After Sara and Gideon, he's the person who's been on the ship the longest. 

I would question how Behrad was able to just wander into Chernobyl without anyone noticing, but I saw the HBO miniseries about the Chernobyl meltdown, letting some rando wander around seems pretty on brand for their level of security. I know that evacuating even some people from Chernobyl is a pretty big deal, but we can guess that its greater impact will be the same, and I cant be upset about sparing some people from such miserable deaths. 

[appositival]

I don't really see AI!Gideon as evil because she was returned to her factory settings by Bishop. At this point she doesn't really have free will. She would have fired the weapons herself, or built a robot captain to do it for her, if she had free will. (I hope she doesn't read this)

She is just following the rules laid down by the Time Masters. Bishop and Ava were democratically ganging up on her and messing with time. She fixed that in a ruthlessly efficient way, but she is trying to protect the timeline.

[thuganomics85]

Heh, even Nate was basically like "Alright, there has been way too much Sara/Ava drama here!  Time for them to take a break from one another!"  At least it did lead to some fun pairings with Ava/Astra and Sara/Spooner, although I wish we got more of the latter.

I guess it doesn't matter what characters they are playing or if they're suppose to be a romantic pairing or not: Tala Ashe and Matt Ryan really, really work well together.  The Zari/Gwyn scenes were by far some of the strongest stuff so far this season (and it's already been pretty solid so far), and I hope get more of this relationship going forward.  Gwyn's backstories and regrets were somewhat expected, but still well acted by Ryan as always.  Although, the whole mission that led to his friend/lover (or was he simply a crush at the time?) death reminded me a lot of the 1917 film a few years ago.

So, the other Waverider, the robots, and everything else was orchestrated by none other than Bishop at first, who believed that the Legends were evil and needed to be destroyed.  But after finding out the truth, he started having second thoughts, but at this point Bishop's version of Gideon was already determined to "stay on mission" no matter what, so that's going to be a problem.  Still not wild about the Bishop character, but this has a chance to make him more interesting at least.

Figured Human Gideon and Gary were going to hook-up at some point, but this was pretty quick!  Makes sense in it's own weird way and it was surprisingly sweet.

Unless Nick Zano wants out or to limit his screen time, I don't see Nate staying in the totem for too long.

They only hung around in Chernobyl for one episode compared to the 1925 stuff, but I can't wait to see where they wind up next!

[legaleagle53]

On 11/19/2021 at 12:42 AM, thuganomics85 said:

So, the other Waverider, the robots, and everything else was orchestrated by none other than Bishop at first, who believed that the Legends were evil and needed to be destroyed.  But after finding out the truth, he started having second thoughts, but at this point Bishop's version of Gideon was already determined to "stay on mission" no matter what, so that's going to be a problem.  Still not wild about the Bishop character, but this has a chance to make him more interesting at least.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens now that he's literally bumped into the Legends and is going to be stuck time-traveling and working with them (and vice-versa). First, he's going to have a HELL of a lot of explaining to do -- and FAST before they decide to beat the hell out of him. Fortunately, he already knows what a monster he created in AI Gideon and will work with the Legends to take her down. But is he ever going to be able to get the Legends to trust him once they find out that HE was the one who deliberately got them into this mess in the first place?

[sweetandsour]

I just really really hope they don't try to integrate Bishop with the Legends so he actually becomes a Legend himself next season.

[blackwing]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:30 AM, lurker22 said:

Too. Much. Ava. And Bishop. I wish we're done with them. The best part was when Evil!Gideon duped Ava to the airlock and sent her off. Ava was getting too smug towards the end there.

This was a boring episode for me, because Sara was barely there. Also, almost everyone got to talk about their feelings and frustrations, even Ava, yet Sara only got a 5-second hunting scene and she magically felt better. It was a missed opportunity too, because Sara would have something to talk to Spooner about, what with one of them being an alien hybrid and the other kidnapped/saved by alien mushroom.

I know Davies went through something horrible, but I need him to calm down. Personally, I'm not a fan of such over-the-top characters. 

It's easy to tell who the writers' favorites are, Ava gets all the screen time, and Constantine/Davies get all the juicy storylines.

Gideon remains the best part of the season, be it innocent Good!Gideon, or Evil!Gideon (are they trying to channel Janet from the Good Place?). Evil!Gideon is a much more worthy and interesting villain than Bishop/Ava. It was nice to see callbacks to last season though. And yes, Evil!Gideon, there should only be ONE captain on the Waverider.

Fully agree.  Too much Bishop.  No doubt that Younger Bishop is going to join the team at season's end.  Younger Bishop is less annoying than the older one who would sing half his dialogue, but he is still annoying.  And we don't need another Ava clone eating up more screen time.

[Lantern7]

Late to the party. As far as Big Bads go, Gideon is pretty kinky. And you can’t say “Evil Gideon” because she’s at her default setting. She’s just gone to extremes because Bishop and OtherAva pushed her that way. Original Programming Gideon vs. Actual Human Gideon . . . nice idea. Here’s hoping we don’t have to deal with Amoral Broken Bishop as the ultimate nemesis.

On the other side of the spectrum, I didn’t consider that Bishop could become a Legend. Man, I hope not. If you bring less to the table than Gary, you shouldn’t be able to join. On the other hand: commode escape pod. Gotta give him points for creativity.

Gideon loses her (human) virginity . . . to Gary. Whimsical choice, no brining in Nate or Behrad . . . but it’s still Gary. Him being a freaky-looking alien is not the worst thing about him . . . though I will admit he’s grown on me. Oh, and he still have the third nipple from Neron. I’m not going to figure how that syncs up with the current continuity.

Im also hoping Gwynn fixes himself soon. He’s so broken, though I can’t blame him. I’m still thinking his original mission will run counter to the Legends’ plans.

[akg]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:10 AM, Lady Calypso said:

This is the Legends I love; finding unexpected pairings and turning them into something quite extraordinary.

I agree. I'm especially loving Astra and Spooner's friendship (with bonus Gideon). I was afraid for a while the writers were aiming for romance but they seem to have stuck with bffs which I'm enjoying. A romance wouldn't be bad but not every relationship has to end up there. A true friendship can be just as important and, now that we've lost Ray(/Nate) and Mick(/Sara), I've missed seeing that with this group. 

On 11/18/2021 at 9:10 AM, Lady Calypso said:

The other thing I LOVED about this episode was Zari and Gwyn's scenes. Zari's focus since season 4B has been about Nate. Since her romance with Nate started, she started having less scenes with others that didn't center around Nate. The only other times lately she hasn't been having scenes with or about Nate were the totem scenes with Zari 2.0. Even Zari/Behrad scenes have been minimal. So having 90% of Zari's story this episode be with Gwyn? That reminded me of why Zari is one of my favourite television characters ever and how good Tala Ashe AND Matt Ryan are. Zari/Gwyn give off TOTALLY different vibes from Zari 2.0/John and it shows. Plus, both characters got some really fantastic moments and really went back to early Legends roots. Plus, Gwyn's backstory with his best friend/potential lover, especially in a time where that wasn't allowed? Beautifully done, and I love that it was Zari to be there for him. Connecting their stories was a brilliant choice. Again, I miss the time of the series where they connected veteran Legends with newly recruited Legends through shared stories or similarities

Me too. Zari 1.0's backstory is so awful and the show has mostly moved on from it so I appreciated the writers remembering and using it to help her bond with Gwyn. 

On 11/18/2021 at 5:49 PM, tennisgurl said:

I would be sad if Nate leaves permanently

Me too. I love him. And I think the team probably needs his superpower: being a white man. Otherwise, they're down to just Gary, right?

On 11/24/2021 at 5:52 PM, Lantern7 said:

On the other hand: commode escape pod. Gotta give him points for creativity.

I'm not sure that was Bishop's idea. When the Legends realized what was falling towards them, I heard someone (Sara?) say "someone pressed the red button" so I think the escape pod has always been a part of the Waverider's design. Which is hilarious to me.