Only Speculation Without Spoilers In the Thread

[dovegrey]

1 hour ago, grandmabegum said:

I hope it's not this. It always bothers me if a character is alone and discovers something that they staged themselves. If that's the case it serves no purpose but to mislead the audience as no other character is there for the misdirect.

I agree. The only way I’d be okay with it is if we’re sometimes seeing the characters’ versions of the truth (so we saw Oliver's version of the truth that he recounted to the team), rather than what’s actually/factually happening. But that would throw almost everything into question and would probably not be good.

The other explanation could be that the poisoned dog and the note aren’t related. Let’s say Oliver is the one who killed Tim, poisoned the cat, or was in some way involved with Tim enough to have the poison in his apartment. If Oliver’s dog got into the poison by accident (if it was in a baggie that he found and chewed open over his bone… My dogs chew on stuff on top of their bones all the time), the note could have been put there by someone else. Maybe a resident saw the podcast and simply doesn’t want the building/suicide/murder publicized that way. It’s interesting that Charles wasn’t threatened as the higher-profile host. Why write the note to Oliver? Maybe Theo didn’t want his dad pumping money into a podcast that seemed doomed to fail...?

Another question I just thought of: I think it was the same episode where Charles and Mabel talked to the cat guy, and Charles’ nose randomly started to bleed. What was that about? Was that ever explained? (Didn't the cat guy open up the cat's food or something immediately before the nose bleed, and then the cat guy passed out but blamed it on seeing blood?)

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, dovegrey said:

Another question I just thought of: I think it was the same episode where Charles and Mabel talked to the cat guy, and Charles’ nose randomly started to bleed. What was that about? Was that ever explained?

Didn't Charles also get a nose bleed when he was nervous about dating the bassoonist? I had thought they were going with a story that Charles had been unable to work because of anxiety issues/stage fright. 
But there's still enough episodes left to have a drop of Charles blood be a red herring or some important distraction or clue.

[grandmabegum]

6 hours ago, dovegrey said:

The other explanation could be that the poisoned dog and the note aren’t related.

Maybe a resident saw the podcast and simply doesn’t want the building/suicide/murder publicized that way. It’s interesting that Charles wasn’t threatened as the higher-profile host. Why write the note to Oliver? Maybe Theo didn’t want his dad pumping money into a podcast that seemed doomed to fail...?

Another question I just thought of: I think it was the same episode where Charles and Mabel talked to the cat guy, and Charles’ nose randomly started to bleed. What was that about? Was that ever explained? (Didn't the cat guy open up the cat's food or something immediately before the nose bleed, and then the cat guy passed out but blamed it on seeing blood?)

I think the note and Winnie aren't related. Given it wasn't a nice note, but if you're leaving a note, you don't need to poison the dog. I mean, you could. But why leave the note on the door if you've already been in the apartment? I think note person was unaware that Oliver didn't lock his door. (Which also doesn't make sense cause they could have slid it under the door like the note to Charles]

There also seems to be enough shady characters in the building that they'd have reasons they wouldn't want other amateur sleuths or cops poking around investigating. Theo seems like a good choice since he knows about the investment. Were there still only 8 listeners at this point? I'd think Teddy would listen to see what he invested in and Theo would probably have read a transcript if he wanted to know more. The other listeners? Who knows. I don't think Cinda knew about it at this point since they go to about confronting Sting. I'd put Bunny up there as she probably wouldn't want any press about the building getting out especially since people are past due on their bills and she'd want to put it on the market. I've also been super suspicious about her signing with Theo.

Didn't Charles say he got nosebleeds talking to new people? That's probably a lie cause he didn't get one around Mabel or Jan. I think Charles stepped in the cats food dish and knocked it over when he started getting nervous about the "recording" question.

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Didn't Charles also get a nose bleed when he was nervous about dating the bassoonist?

I don't think he got a nosebleed then, he just asked Mabel if his nose was bleeding.

Edited September 26, 2021 by grandmabegum

[Abra]

12 hours ago, grandmabegum said:

Didn't Charles say he got nosebleeds talking to new people? That's probably a lie cause he didn't get one around Mabel or Jan. I think Charles stepped in the cats food dish and knocked it over when he started getting nervous about the "recording" question.

He said he gets nosebleeds due to anxiety, which is why he asked Mabel if he'd gotten one while talking to Bassoon Jan. I don't find it suspicious that he got one while interviewing Cat Guy given they had to be so duplicitous about recording him. Plus it lead to the whole scene with Charles discovering Evelyn in the freezer while looking for an ice pack, which was hilarious.

[cardigirl]

Why are there no speculations about how Oliver and Mabel get out of that van and away from Theo? Were we shown something at the end of the timeline and the next couple of episodes are going to focus on things that happen before they are captured? 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Why are there no speculations about how Oliver and Mabel get out of that van and away from Theo? Were we shown something at the end of the timeline and the next couple of episodes are going to focus on things that happen before they are captured? 

Because everybody knows they are going to get out of the van and the reason is either going to be something funny or stupid. Otherwise there would be no point to the show having a Season 2.

[dovegrey]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Why are there no speculations about how Oliver and Mabel get out of that van and away from Theo? Were we shown something at the end of the timeline and the next couple of episodes are going to focus on things that happen before they are captured? 

That would be an interesting twist! I think that could get confusing, though. They've already done a "2 Months Earlier" thing; it could be a lot to then have Oliver/Mabel kidnapped in a van and then cut away to "Two Weeks Earlier" (or whatever).

I figured either (1) Oscar is still tailing Mabel and will be the one to help them escape (we haven't seen him in present-day for a little bit now), or (2) Theo is actually working with the police (a total long shot and would be silly for him to tie them up, if so). I don't see how Charles would be able to help, unless someone else gets involved who can trace their phones (Creepy Jan?), he calls the police and manages to get ahold of the detective, or Oscar gets ahold of him (see #1).

[bybrandy]

I mean we know they are all out 2 months after the first episode when Mabel probably hasn't really killed the guy wearing the tie dye hoodie who might be but probably isn't Oscar... so... I'm not sweating it.

But for speculation's sake I'll say Charles wakes up Bassoon lady and she creates a bassoon related distraction.

Or, you know, new york traffic happens and Charles just lets them out while Theo is stuck in traffic.  

Do we think Oliver gets his car back at any point? 

2 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

That would be an interesting twist! I think that could get confusing, though. They've already done a "2 Months Earlier" thing; it could be a lot to then have Oliver/Mabel kidnapped in a van and then cut away to "Two Weeks Earlier" (or whatever).

I figured either (1) Oscar is still tailing Mabel and will be the one to help them escape (we haven't seen him in present-day for a little bit now), or (2) Theo is actually working with the police (a total long shot and would be silly for him to tie them up, if so). I don't see how Charles would be able to help, unless someone else gets involved who can trace their phones (Creepy Jan?), he calls the police and manages to get ahold of the detective, or Oscar gets ahold of him (see #1).

Both those ideas are better than mine but less funny than a bassoon related distraction... but yeah we haven't seen Oscar in a while so it makes sense that he'd be involved.  And we've seen the cop again so it makes sense that she'd pop up again.   Both these are solid theories.  
 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Why are there no speculations about how Oliver and Mabel get out of that van and away from Theo? 

A team up of Charles, Bassoon Lady, and Oscar to the rescue could be interesting. 
I like:

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

new york traffic happens and Charles just lets them out while Theo is stuck in traffic.  

 

[cardigirl]

I guess I've been focusing on the little bits of clips I've seen that are from episodes of the show not yet shown that clearly show Oliver and Mabel with Charles, and they seem fine, and also clearly no longer in the back of the van, so I'm wondering what happens. They're also still trying to solve the murder of Tim Kono so ... I can't imagine what is going to happen with Theo.  Is someone going to turn him and Teddy into the police? Is he going to break down and confess and release them? Or is he going to try to murder them?  The mind boggles. I know they are rescued (most likely) since they are in future scenes and since there will be a season two, but I'm having a difficult time time envisioning what comes next.  I guess that's good.  Keeps me interested. 

[AnimeMania]

Deli King Jr. talking to Oscar: I killed Zoe and framed you to take the fall.

Oscar talking to Deli King Jr.: How could you do that to us, all we did was break into your house and steal all of your shit.

[cardigirl]

So no rescue of Oliver and Mabel, just a threat from Teddy.  Which lead the team to make a podcast revealing some truths about the Dimas' family, but not the truth of who killed Tim Kono. I like how this show is pulling all these threads together.  Not sure what the motive for killing Tim is, if it's not to keep him quiet about how Zoe fell to her death, but two more episodes to go to have it be revealed. 

My speculation for some more of the story is that we are going to find out the real reason for Charles' former girlfriend moving out with Lucy ... and the story won't completely match what Charles told Yoko Jan. 😉

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by cardigirl

[AnimeMania]

My guess is that the Bassoon Lady was doing something shady with someone (maybe the person that killed Tim Kono) and she jumped in on the investigation to throw the Laurel and Hardy Boys off the track. Whoever Bassoon Lady was working with didn't like what she told them and shot/stabbed her. I was wondering why nobody heard a gunshot.

The Arconiacs said there was probably two people working together, making the investigation more complicated.

And just now, I think I know who did it, I shouldn't have watched those official trailers with all of the unaired episode footage. Interesting conclusion to the series. 

[cardigirl]

 

Spoiler

Is this a flashback?  Who is it? 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Who's making these drawings?  I don't remember seeing these in earlier episodes. 

 

Someone can remove this post if it's not appropriate but I'm wondering about these scenes ... have we seen this before? 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by cardigirl

[AnimeMania]

Humorous Spoiler, How Tim Kono was murdered: Somebody shows up at Tim Kono's door with a freshly baked poisoned turkey. Tim Kono takes a couple of bites and dies. A person (same or different) puts a gun in Tim Kono's mouth to make it look like Tim Kono committed suicide and a piece of the turkey falls out. Later the cat comes along and eats the piece of turkey. A Turducken Twofer!

[dovegrey]

After the latest episode, I still think the key to the Tim mystery is the note on Oliver's door + Winnie being poisoned. Now we know for sure that Tim was poisoned before he died, and there is a strong likelihood that Evelyn the Cat died from being exposed to the poison. And now we have a note on Bassoonist Jan's door shortly before she is attacked. Unless the notes are completely unrelated to the bad events that occur after them (unlikely given recent events), whoever left the notes likely poisoned Tim. That begs the question: who, by the end of Episode 3, was aware enough of the new podcast to leave a note on Oliver's door and poison Winnie in an attempt to stop the podcast? Ursula, the mail lady who handles/distributes all the packages and sold the guys Gutmilk in exchange for the file on Tim. (Episode 3 also introduced Teddy and Jan. Both have been ruled out, right?)

Some other random stuff:

I rewatched the first episode (AGAIN). The "suicide" notes that Mabel found in the dumpster from (presumably) Tim's trash bag had different handwriting...one was written in all-caps and the other was written in mixed-caps. Seems strange. And they only concluded it belonged to Tim because some of his mail was in the same bag.

I also rewatched the second episode. The Hardy Boys book at the end of Tim's bookshelf changed between Mabel first finding the books (with Charles and Oliver there) and going back at the end of the episode. It went from "The Crisscross Shadow" to "The Wailing Siren Mystery." Did someone else go in the apartment and take the first book...and what was inside of it?

As an aside, every time I rewatch the series, I suspect Charles has early stage dementia. Just gonna throw that derail out there.

Edited October 6, 2021 by dovegrey

[bybrandy]

17 hours ago, dovegrey said:

As an aside, every time I rewatch the series, I suspect Charles has early stage dementia. Just gonna throw that derail out there.

Why?  I mean why do you suspect not why are you throwing it out here.  :).   I haven't noticed any evidence of him losing words, losing things, getting lost in time and space.

[dovegrey]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Why?  I mean why do you suspect not why are you throwing it out here.  :).   I haven't noticed any evidence of him losing words, losing things, getting lost in time and space.

Remaking the omelette and throwing it away multiple times. Hallucinating cartoon characters. Re-enacting scenes verbatim from his TV show without realizing. Oliver has made at least three jabs about Charles not being mentally “all there.” These are the big reasons. I’m not saying the show is going there but it trips my clinical alarms every time I watch all the episodes back to back.

[bybrandy]

Maybe.  I take the omelette to be he's missing lucy and doing the thing he liked to do with her, not a bit of forgetfulness just a way to play tribute to her, but I could see I guess him stuck in an old routine.  I'll give you the hallucinating the carton characters although that is more a middle or late stage symptom, television shows are often not great at things like staging of symptoms.  As for the Brazos story he told the story of his father both to mabel and on Brazos because that is the way he tells the story.  He's not a writer.  That is the one thing they let him do and they let him do that because it is something that is so much a part of his narrative that he's got that story down pat.  After all he has to be asked by others why he's alone a lot.  That's my read on those situations.  But I do understand why those things in combination lead you towards that suspicion.  

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Remaking the omelette and throwing it away multiple times. Hallucinating cartoon characters. Re-enacting scenes verbatim from his TV show without realizing. Oliver has made at least three jabs about Charles not being mentally “all there.” These are the big reasons. I’m not saying the show is going there but it trips my clinical alarms every time I watch all the episodes back to back.

This does make sense now that you’ve put it together.  
😢

[dovegrey]

39 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Maybe.  I take the omelette to be he's missing lucy and doing the thing he liked to do with her, not a bit of forgetfulness just a way to play tribute to her, but I could see I guess him stuck in an old routine.  I'll give you the hallucinating the carton characters although that is more a middle or late stage symptom, television shows are often not great at things like staging of symptoms.  As for the Brazos story he told the story of his father both to mabel and on Brazos because that is the way he tells the story.  He's not a writer.  That is the one thing they let him do and they let him do that because it is something that is so much a part of his narrative that he's got that story down pat.  After all he has to be asked by others why he's alone a lot.  That's my read on those situations.  But I do understand why those things in combination lead you towards that suspicion.  

I was thinking Lewy Body Dementia, wherein chronic visual hallucinations are typically an early, first symptom. Dementia is a wide umbrella of distinct neurodegenerative conditions with different symptom clusters and onset. :) Without getting too far into fanfic territory, I also thought it was weird that his opening scene in the first episode was some random guy telling him about his dad's ALS (which possibly sounded more like HD but whatever, writers). With him and the scene from his show - it was word for word. Even if it's really his own personal story, it's incredibly odd that he quoted exactly his old scripted lines verbatim to Mabel and then seemed perplexed when she was upset by it.

In any event, I'm more hung up on who took one of Tim's Hardy Boy's books between the team first going into the apartment and Mabel going back later. I think the emerald ring that Tim bought back from Cutter/Angel was in there. And I'm also wondering who had time and knowledge to care that Jan was involved in the podcast; I'm starting to think it was someone in the room/on the team... Don't be Oscar... :(

[StevenGuy]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:33 PM, cardigirl said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

Is this a flashback?  Who is it? 

 

 

 

  Reveal spoiler

Who's making these drawings?  I don't remember seeing these in earlier episodes. 

 

Someone can remove this post if it's not appropriate but I'm wondering about these scenes ... have we seen this before? 

 

We have seen Mabel drawing on the walls of her Aunt's apartment. I forgot which episode. I would say more but it would refer to a "spoiler". I'm not sure how to make my response to you a spoiler.

[dovegrey]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:13 PM, dovegrey said:

After the latest episode, I still think the key to the Tim mystery is the note on Oliver's door + Winnie being poisoned. Now we know for sure that Tim was poisoned before he died, and there is a strong likelihood that Evelyn the Cat died from being exposed to the poison. And now we have a note on Bassoonist Jan's door shortly before she is attacked. Unless the notes are completely unrelated to the bad events that occur after them (unlikely given recent events), whoever left the notes likely poisoned Tim. That begs the question: who, by the end of Episode 3, was aware enough of the new podcast to leave a note on Oliver's door and poison Winnie in an attempt to stop the podcast? Ursula, the mail lady who handles/distributes all the packages and sold the guys Gutmilk in exchange for the file on Tim. (Episode 3 also introduced Teddy and Jan. Both have been ruled out, right?)

Replying to myself… Just rewatched Episode 3. Oliver published the first episode of the podcast “an hour ago,” and they had four listens “in only an hour,” with one comment that apparently trashed Charles with “Charles Hayden Savage is a…”. This scene ended with Oliver going to his apartment and immediately finding the “end the podcast or I end you” note on his door. Pretty quick turnaround!

It was established in Episode 2 that Ursula strongly dislikes Charles, and she was one of the few who knew Oliver and Charles were looking into Tim’s death at that point. I think she was one of the four immediate listeners and the one who left the nasty comment about Charles. She handled all the package deliveries and was messing them up, accidentally or intentionally, which led to her killing Tim, either because he caught onto some scam she was running or because they got into an argument about the missing, expensive packages.

I dunno. Would that be underwhelming?

[cardigirl]

11 hours ago, StevenGuy said:

We have seen Mabel drawing on the walls of her Aunt's apartment. I forgot which episode. I would say more but it would refer to a "spoiler". I'm not sure how to make my response to you a spoiler.

If you look at the symbols running along the top of the reply box, you will see an eye with a line across it.  Highlight the words you want to put in a spoiler and click that eye and voila, you have a spoiler box.  👍

[shapeshifter]

56 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

If you look at the symbols running along the top of the reply box, you will see an eye with a line across it.  Highlight the words you want to put in a spoiler and click that eye and voila, you have a spoiler box.  👍

Or, we could create an "Only Spoilers In The This Thread" thread (or whatever title all y'all should choose).
I am *allergic* to spoilers (achoo! even typing the word!), but I'd be happy to create one if none of you feels confident in doing it, or you can ask a Mod.

[AnimeMania]

10 hours ago, dovegrey said:

It was established in Episode 2 that Ursula strongly dislikes Charles, and she was one of the few who knew Oliver and Charles were looking into Tim’s death at that point. I think she was one of the four immediate listeners and the one who left the nasty comment about Charles. She handled all the package deliveries and was messing them up, accidentally or intentionally, which led to her killing Tim, either because he caught onto some scam she was running or because they got into an argument about the missing, expensive packages.

I am not positive, but isn't Ursula in charge of all of the stuff that people put into the basement storage for the building? I would imagine that stuff is worth a fortune and if somebody moves out, or dies, it would be her job to get rid of it. If she was playing a racket similar to the Deli King, of selling the stuff, she should be extremely well off, but she doesn't appear to be.

[cardigirl]

I speculate the Oliver does start merchandizing a line of Only Murders in the Building clothing and that's why we see Mabel kneeling over someone in a tie dye hoodie in the very beginning of the show. Who it might be, I'm not sure, but I fear for the super fans. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I speculate the Oliver does start merchandizing a line of Only Murders in the Building clothing and that's why we see Mabel kneeling over someone in a tie dye hoodie in the very beginning of the show. Who it might be, I'm not sure, but I fear for the super fans. 

And/or it could be fake blood with the whole bit being part of a TikTok ad for the OMITB logo clothing line.

But I don’t really think so. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by shapeshifter

[AnimeMania]

This is a guess at what happened already, not what is going to happen in the bloody conclusion that is the next episode. I will put it in "Spoilers" since it uses that one scene in the Original Trailer that has not appeared in the show yet.

Spoiler

 

Oscar gets threaten by Deli King and Zoe's parents, that if he doesn't take the fall for Zoe's death Oscar's father will lose his job.

Tim Kono tells Oscar while he is in prison that he is the reason that Oscar went to prison because he knew that Oscar was innocent and was too afraid to tell anyone what really happened.

Tim Kono meets Bassoon Prodigy inside the Courtyard listening to the woman who is good at Bassoon practice, they strike up a conversation and they start having a loud noisy sexual relationship.

Oscar has a few years to plan his revenge. Here is what he came up with:

Seduce a woman who is good at Bassoon and get her to help you.

Have the woman who is good at Bassoon cook a turkey and bring it to the door of Tim Kono. 

Tim Kono takes a bite of the poison turkey and falls down dead.

Have the woman who is good at Bassoon take the turkey away and when she reaches her own apartment, pull the fire alarm.

While the alarm is going off, Oscar shoots Tim Kono in the head and makes it look like a suicide, even leaving a note that probably said something like I can't live with the guilt, knowing that I, Tim Kono let an innocent child rot away in a prison for a crime that he did not commit.

When Oscar puts the gun in Tim Kono's mouth, a piece of the poisoned turkey falls out and later the cat comes to Tim Kono's apartment and eats it.

Oscar probably thinks that Tim Kono killed Zoe so he is justified to murder Tim Kono, when in fact it was an accident and if there is anyone who might have some blame, it is Deli King Jr.  

Did they even find a gun? 

Oscar writes a note to the woman who is good at Bassoon to tell her to "slow her roll" before she becomes a suspect. 

Deli King Jr. somehow stumbles across Oscar killing Tim Kono, partially due to him not being able to hear the fire alarm so he didn't evacuate the building. Deli King Jr. tampers with the crime scene in some way. (This goes against the photo evidence of him being outside during the fire alarm, but I like this so much I am going to leave it in.)

Bassoon Prodigy finds a new boyfriend. Bassoon Prodigy stabs woman who is good at Bassoon to take her position in the Orchestra. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by AnimeMania

[dovegrey]

6 hours ago, dovegrey said:

If the prodigy was up-and-coming after Jan's first seat, did Jan give her a poisoned bottle of alcohol while at work, which the prodigy then took to Tim's apartment and he drank? Then someone else came along and shot Tim in the head, without realizing he was already dead?

Quoting myself from the 1x9 episode thread. I'm not sure what speculation is okay for the episode threads and what speculation is best speculated here.

So, say the quoted is what happened. Jan poisoned a bottle of bourbon or whatever was in the tumblers. Allison/the prodigy was about to drink with Tim but had to leave. Tim drank from both glasses and died. When the shooter arrived, Tim was already dead and looked like he was asleep or passed out drunk on the floor, and shot Tim in the head with the intent to murder and stage a suicide, without knowing about the poison. Would whoever shot him in the head be vulnerable to prosecution? Let's say Oscar is the one who shot Tim and staged the suicide, fully believing he was killing Tim, but Tim was already dead via the poison. Would Oscar be open to some sort of homicide charge? Obstruction? Desecration of a corpse?

It'd be a poignant way to end the season, if Jan accidentally poisoned/killed Tim and Oscar meant to kill him... Both Charles and Mabel lose their second chances, as Cinda Canning might say.

(P.S. Evelyn the Cat then licks from the glasses and dies, too. My cat routinely tries to lick from my wine glass.)

Edited October 12, 2021 by dovegrey
changed "9x9" to "1x9" oops

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, dovegrey said:

Quoting myself from the 9x9 episode thread. I'm not sure what speculation is okay for the episode threads and what speculation is best speculated here.

So, say the quoted is what happened. Jan poisoned a bottle of bourbon or whatever was in the tumblers. Allison/the prodigy was about to drink with Tim but had to leave. Tim drank from both glasses and died. When the shooter arrived, Tim was already dead and looked like he was asleep or passed out drunk on the floor, and shot Tim in the head with the intent to murder and stage a suicide, without knowing about the poison. Would whoever shot him in the head be vulnerable to prosecution? Let's say Oscar is the one who shot Tim and staged the suicide, fully believing he was killing Tim, but Tim was already dead via the poison. Would Oscar be open to some sort of homicide charge? Obstruction? Desecration of a corpse?

It'd be a poignant way to end the season, if Jan accidentally poisoned/killed Tim and Oscar meant to kill him... Both Charles and Mabel lose their second chances, as Cinda Canning might say.

(P.S. Evelyn the Cat then licks from the glasses and dies, too. My cat routinely tries to lick from my wine glass.)

Great reasoning here.  I was wondering about Sazz being a part of this as she picked up the glasses and got her fingerprints all over them, thus explaining away any fingerprints she might have left behind if she was "visiting" Tim earlier. It bothered me greatly to see her waving them around when she proclaimed they probably had traces of poison in them, but yet she was not handling them carefully.

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Quoting myself from the 9x9 episode thread. I'm not sure what speculation is okay for the episode threads and what speculation is best speculated here.

So, say the quoted is what happened. Jan poisoned a bottle of bourbon or whatever was in the tumblers. Allison/the prodigy was about to drink with Tim but had to leave. Tim drank from both glasses and died. When the shooter arrived, Tim was already dead and looked like he was asleep or passed out drunk on the floor, and shot Tim in the head with the intent to murder and stage a suicide, without knowing about the poison. Would whoever shot him in the head be vulnerable to prosecution? Let's say Oscar is the one who shot Tim and staged the suicide, fully believing he was killing Tim, but Tim was already dead via the poison. Would Oscar be open to some sort of homicide charge? Obstruction? Desecration of a corpse?

It'd be a poignant way to end the season, if Jan accidentally poisoned/killed Tim and Oscar meant to kill him... Both Charles and Mabel lose their second chances, as Cinda Canning might say.

(P.S. Evelyn the Cat then licks from the glasses and dies, too. My cat routinely tries to lick from my wine glass.)

I would say if have an insight about one aspect of the mystery you could put it in the episode thread, if you want to explore an entire murder scenario, or want to float some crazy unsupported theories put it in the speculation thread.

Decent theory, but doesn't explain why they targeted Oliver's dog or who pulled the fire alarm? That does explain who stabbed Bassoon Lady, but not why they didn't make sure they finished the job, since they would still be in danger. Did the fire alarm keep one of them from having a drink?

[dovegrey]

15 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I would say if have an insight about one aspect of the mystery you could put it in the episode thread, if you want to explore an entire murder scenario, or want to float some crazy unsupported theories put it in the speculation thread.

Decent theory, but doesn't explain why they targeted Oliver's dog or who pulled the fire alarm? That does explain who stabbed Bassoon Lady, but not why they didn't make sure they finished the job, since they would still be in danger. Did the fire alarm keep one of them from having a drink?

I would pull a fire alarm to get someone out of an apartment, not create a diversion to kill someone in their apartment. If Jan did poison a liquor gift to Allison, and then saw Allison and Tim together in the Arconia with the bottle, she could have pulled the fire alarm to get them out of his apartment, so she could go inside and steal it. Instead, she found Allison gone and Tim dead....and then someone else came inside and shot Tim, either after she left or after she hid. She found out that Tim's death was being investigated, cozied up to Charles to keep an eye on them + access to evidence, and then tried to scare away Oliver. I could see Jan poisoning Winnie; she was turned on by the idea of Charles ripping apart a cat in 1x9, so I don't rule out her killing a dog (or trying to). Alternatively, the shooter is leaving the notes and poisoned Winnie; I don't think it's public knowledge that Tim died from the poisoning rather than the GSW, so the poisoner and the shooter would both have reason to try to stop the podcast, if the poisoner and the shooter are different people.

I still more or less think Ursula is the Big Bad; she was in charge of distributing packages, likely has access to all apartments, and I could see her poisoning the Gut Milk that she possibly made Tim buy in exchange for keeping that stack of complaints against him hidden. Gut Milk has been in the background A LOT, and, after all, as we learned in 1x9, too many complaints mean eviction... But I dunno. We have one episode left, and I don't think there's time for a decent curveball that takes the investigation into a whole new direction. The more I've thought over the most recent episode, the more I think it's Jan and Oscar or Jan and Ursula as the poisoner and the shooter, respectively. It has to tie into the jewelry/packages.

Edited October 12, 2021 by dovegrey
Winnie's not dead!

[shapeshifter]

At this point I'm open to a reveal that has Tim actually committing suicide (the poison wasn't working as well as he hoped, so he used the gun) but that the podcasters exploration of his "murder" ultimately served to expose other crimes, thereby making the trio heroes rather than outcasts.

Perhaps as part of an agreement to rescind their evictions from the Arconia, they agree to not do anymore podcasting about the residents of the Arconia, which leads to Cinda taking over the podcast as we saw in an earlier episode flashforward. 

[shapeshifter]

And now we begin to speculate on Who Stabbed Bunny In Mable's Aunt's Apartment With The Knitting Needle?

First guess: Cinda Canning (or one of her assistants as a proxy)

Edited October 19, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Abra]

I feel like that last comment is a spoiler in a spoiler-free thread, given that the finale just dropped.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Abra said:

I feel like that last comment is a spoiler in a spoiler-free thread, given that the finale just dropped.

Sorry. I always assumed as soon as an episode aired it could no longer be spoiled (midnight Eastern Time for this show).
But some people will choose to wait until the end of a season and binge, so, reading your post, I'm thinking it would be good to make that clear at the top of the thread.
I can ask a mod to do that.
Or I can ask a mod to close this thread and start a new one for Season 2.
Or...?
What do you think?

 

 

 

[ajsnaves]

Can I assume at this point this thread is safe for  speculation for next season? Because I got some speculating to do based on things I just noticed.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ajsnaves said:

Can I assume at this point this thread is safe for  speculation for next season? Because I got some speculating to do based on things I just noticed.

Feel free!
(IMO)

Of course, there will still be a lot of speculation going on in the finale thread
--some of which you might want to quote here
--(depending upon browsers etc., if you click on the + plus sign below a post in that thread, a little popup option to quote it here should appear)

[ajsnaves]

So I have watched the last scene a few times now and here is what I noticed.

Charles and Oliver run into Mable’s apartment, we see Bunny on her side facing Mable.  She has blood on her back, seemingly coming from a wound there.  But there does not appear to be a hole in the hoodies.  I am guessing she was shot, either in the back, or in the front and it went through and through.  After she was shot, he hoodie was put on her.  (My brother thinks her arms were not in the pulled through the sleeves, but I am not seeing that on my little screen I was using.) THEN she was stabbed in the front with Mable’s knitting needles, in what looks to be near the shoulder. (Is there an artery there?). That would account for all the blood on Mable.  I wonder if there was any blood outside the door?  Was it cleaned up? 

So this leaves me with the following questions.

• Who called the police?
• Why the heavy response?
• Who texted Charles and Oliver?
• Is the Detective trying to help? (I think yes)
• With 2 murders(recently at least)  in the building now, how much is is an apartment in that building going for?

So to sum up, Bunny was shot then stabbed.  We now have to wait while to find out what the hell is going on.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by ajsnaves

[sjankis630]

This is a pretty good theory but how do you explain Mabel saying "It was an accident" to the two guys when they burst into her apartment?

 

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, sjankis630 said:

This is a pretty good theory but how do you explain Mabel saying "It was an accident" to the two guys when they burst into her apartment?

 

I still haven't re-watched yet, but I'm guessing the "It was an accident" refers to Bunny falling onto Mabel's Chekhovian knitting needle because Bunny was already dying when Mabel opened the door
--perhaps with knitting needle in hand because she heard shots fired?

[dovegrey]

13 minutes ago, sjankis630 said:

This is a pretty good theory but how do you explain Mabel saying "It was an accident" to the two guys when they burst into her apartment?

 

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I still haven't re-watched yet, but I'm guessing the "It was an accident" refers to Bunny falling onto Mabel's Chekhovian knitting needle because Bunny was already dying when Mabel opened the door
--perhaps with knitting needle in hand because she heard shots fired?

She doesn't say anything about it being an accident, though (link goes to a transcript website). She said, "It's not what you think... I just opened the door, and she stumbled in on me!" :) There is a lot of room for interpretation (and writer misdirect) in what she said. It could mean that it was an accident and Bunny stumbled into Mabel's knitting needle (...and Bunny's injuries would be highly improbable in real life...), or it could mean that Bunny was already stabbed and stumbled into/onto Mabel through no action of Mabel, or it could mean....?

[Abra]

58 minutes ago, sjankis630 said:

This is a pretty good theory but how do you explain Mabel saying "It was an accident" to the two guys when they burst into her apartment?

She didn't say it's an accident, she said "It's not what you think."

[aradia22]

I'm collecting loose ends (from this season) from the finale thread

Quote

Only loose end I can think of is who blocked the investigation at police headquarters? 

Quote

Also wanted to say that Jan was a real psycho (Great job by Amy Ryan) but never admitted to poisoning Winnie.  Hmmmmm. The cat appeared to have been accidental. So Winnie and the threatening note to Oliver may be another loose thread not tied up.  

Quote

Who was the engagement ring for?  (The one that was supposed to go to Tim but was misdelivered.)

Quote

I'm guessing Tim and her were really using the bassoon cleaner as a sex toy. Lol

Quote

Mabel seems to have some sticky fingers, she seems to enjoy the rings that Tim Kono acquired a little too much for my taste. First the engagement ring, then the emerald ring. I wonder what she did with the rest of the jewelry? 

It was suggested that Teddy Dimas might have connections at police headquarters but that was never confirmed so it does feel like a loose end.

It's possible that Jan did poison Winnie but they forgot to bring it up. Was the handwriting in her notes and the note to Oliver similar? It was an episode before her date with Charles and at the moment they had ruled out Evelyn the cat's owner so I don't know what the motive would be for poisoning Winnie.

I'm confused about the ring. I don't think Jan replaced the green ring with the "engagement" ring and put the box in Bunny's apartment because we saw her find the green ring and get jealous, motivating her to kill Tim. So the ring was already in Tim's possession, wasn't it? 

Unless Tim was just leaving a keepsake of Jan in that box, then yes, I think they were somehow using it in the bedroom. 

How loud are gunshots? Jan being the killer seems to confirm Oscar's account. So when he went upstairs to find Tim and the fire alarm was going off, that was when Jan shot Tim but no one else was around to hear? Also, I guess this means Lester was counting Oscar among the people he recognized from the building. But he didn't think it was suspicious enough to mention that Tim was shot the same week that Oscar got out of jail?

My own loose end... what was the sound the psychiatrist complained to Lester about? Like someone was shoveling snow above his office?

And going into season 2...

Quote

Why was Bunny wearing an Only Murders in the Buildings tie dye hoodie? Who called the police and what did they tell them to get so many to show up

Quote

And who texted Charles & Oliver & told them to get out of the building, & did they text Mabel too? Or was this a setup for Mabel?

Quote

Why was Cinda camped outside the Arconia? 

I assume the killer wanted to pin the crime on Mabel or all three of them in an obvious way but putting her in the hoodie and using Mabel's knitting needle was so obvious as to strain credulity. I think it's easy enough to get a SWAT team if you make a bomb threat or something. I do think Detective Williams is on their side and was telling them to not talk so they wouldn't say anything incriminating (or that could be construed that way). I do think Cinda being outside is suspicious because she's not a reporter and it's weird to be there ahead of a story making the kind of podcast she does. Even if she was jealous about their real-time investigation, there was no reason for her to think something would be happening there that night.

I remember someone in the regular threads saying that Bunny lives in Mabel's aunt's old apartment. If that's true, that could turn into something.

How did the killer lure Bunny to Mabel's apartment? I assume that was where Bunny was stabbed to produce all the blood and not leave a suspicious trail of blood from moving the body. 

[cardigirl]

With the release of the second trailer, are we ready to start trying to figure out WHO is behind setting up our team of detectives?  In the last scene of the last episode, when Charles-Hayden, Mabel, and Oliver are being led to the police cars, they pass a long line of people watching (judging) them. Maybe one of these people is the murderer?  

(Sorry, I'm so happy for this show to return, I can't stop coming up with theories. 😁) 

[Kiddvideo]

I really hope this is a new mystery and not a continuation of all the dangling threads and red herrings from S1.

[grandmabegum]

This probably should go in the media thread, but my first thought upon watching this clip was, "Oh man! What is written on the Post-It on the dips? Can we start analyzing the handwriting?"

[Kiddvideo]

On 6/17/2022 at 5:29 PM, Kiddvideo said:

I really hope this is a new mystery and not a continuation of all the dangling threads and red herrings from S1.

Quoting myself because I think it will be a continuation. I rewatched the series so I’d be familiar with the loose ends like “The Cutter”, who was Teddy’s fence. Right before Mabel goes downstairs to get more champagne and instead finds Bunny, she says “Doesn’t it feel like there are a lot of loose ends?” I’d also forgotten that Mabel kneeling over Bunny was the very first scene of the pilot.

[cardigirl]

Moved to media thread. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by cardigirl
Found a better place for it.