S05.E12: Chapter Eighty-Eight: Citizen Lodge

[rmontro]

Quote

Hiram shares with Reggie his origin story and how he went from a young Jaime Luna to the powerful kingpin of Riverdale. Elsewhere, Reggie reflects on his relationship with his father.

Airdate: 18 August 2021

Didn't see a thread for this week's episode, so I decided to make one.  

[tvwatchergordis]

Who would have thought that an episode on Hiram Lodge or rather Jaime Luna would be a good one? It was definitely one of the better Riverdale episodes. And proof that RD writers can still dish out decent/good episodes when they want to. After the mess that was last weeks ep I rather liked this one.  I almost rate it as high as the S4 post Fred death season premiere episode. Marc Consuelos was excellent in this. & It was cool to see his son acting along side him as a young Jaime/Hiram. 

Nice origin to Riverdale's king pin.

Hiram's dad was an honorable man & really loved his son. Nice parallels to Reggie's father thou he is abusive. I actually thought that it was Hiram's father who had got him into a life of crime. My heart broke when Vito had him killed. Didn't expect Hiram to figure out who killed his dad as fast as he did.  He went Punisher mode on those gangsters! Brutal. 

And lookie! Lodge does have somewhat of a heart as evidenced when he let Reggie go. Or maybe it was the extent of his grief thru his memories that allowed him to do that. Either way I liked it. Kinda felt for Hiram a lot this ep.

P.s wow was Hermoine materialistic even as a young teen: damn. No wonder her and Hiram lasted as long as they did.

It's probably back to dumb none sense next week so it was nice to have this episode as a breather. 

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, tvwatchergordis said:

Who would have thought that an episode on Hiram Lodge or rather Jaime Luna would be a good one?

I'm not ordinarily a fan of these types of flashbacks, centered on mainly one character, but they do work sometimes.  There have been a few good ones on Walking Dead (where Morgan learned aikido, and Negan's backstory).  This one worked, and served as a nice break from the usual craziness.  Nice little gangster story - First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.  Jughead even mentioned Scarface in the intro.  Agreed, nice soft spot with Hiram letting Reggie go.

I think it's kind of hilarious that they have the regular actors playing their parents in these flashbacks.  Since they don't really look anything like their parents.  But the silliness works well on this show, plus it saves money and probably keeps their fans invested. 

[Chaos Theory]

Even though I think Hiram Lodge should have been killed off years ago this was probably the best episode in years.     Maybe if it had been made a few seasons ago it would be a better explanation for why he both hates Riverdale so much but is so damn obsessed with it.   Still…the episode was actually good.  

[SourK]

In a weird way, I kind of appreciate the retcon to explain why Hiram acts like he's in the Italian mob. But mostly I felt frustrated and wished I was watching a better show. The actor playing Young Hiram did a decent job of imitating him, though. ... And I just googled and it's Mark Consuelos' son. So that makes sense.

[thuganomics85]

I knew I was going to kind of like this episode as soon as Jughead actually compared Hiram Lodge of all freaking people to the legendary gangsters from film, television, and so forth.  I can only imagine Cole Spouse recording that and either a) being like "Seriously, guys?!" or b) just smirking and going along with it, because nothing fazes him (or the rest of the cast) anymore.

But on a more serious note, even though this episode hit pretty much every gangster cliche in the playbook, I actually kind of enjoyed it too.  Part of it could be that it hilariously is actually kind of a break from the pure batshit insanity that normally goes on, and it is almost quaint seeing a nice villain origin story that is set in the 1980s but feels like it belongs in the 30s.  Hey, for Riverdale, this is almost normal!

Probably helps that I enjoyed seeing Louis Ferreira as Vito, as he is one of those actors who I've seen in so many things, and he always delivers no matter what the quality of the show is.  Sure, this might be a silly little show on The CW, but he wasn't letting that stop him from going all out here.  Good for him!  Can't wait to see what show he pops into next!

Still like how they have Mark Conseuelos' actual son play Young Hiram.  Also enjoyed them bringing back the normal cast to play their characters' parents, although I wish we got more of K.J. Apa as Fred because I remember actually being impressed by his portrayal the first time they did this gimmick.

Hiram's dad getting straight up mowed down gangster-style in front of Pops really makes Pop look like a big liar in that one episode, where he claimed in Jughead's (I think) documentary that Riverdale use to be a peaceful place.  The hell, Pop?!  You literally got a front row seat to watching someone get riddled with bullets from a drive-bye Tommy Gun shooting!  Peaceful my ass!

I guess it's nice that Reggie might not go down the same path, but it's hard to want him to reconcile with his dad since his dad was flat-out physically abusive.

Looks like Hiram's current plan requires the assistance of good old Hermosa!

[ruby24]

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this episode. It was actually interesting and made Hiram sympathetic. It's weird that it can make you root for him even though he absolutely is not going to stop being a murderer or anything, lol. He literally has video surveillance on his wife and daughter so he can eavesdrop on their conversations about him?

Seeing that this week actually gave Reggie some development too (although is it really a good thing for him to reconcile with a father who beat him for years? I know the other parents are murderers and all, but still), and that next week has more Reggie/Veronica scenes...is it possible they're considering giving that pairing another go? I never thought they gave it enough of a shot the first time around, so I wouldn't mind if they did. Really, it'd be better than yet another season of her and Archie at this point.

[mtlchick]

Well this was actually….good.  Which is saying a lot because last week’s episode and frankly the last 2 years have been a wreck.

Strangely I loved the bit that Hiram was in bed eating ice cream and watching TV, which is something I never would have expected out of a person like him. Granted he was watching a reality show where his ex wife and daughter were wailing on him but it humanized him. Interesting that he gave Reggie an out and told him to reconcile with his father (even though it’s his dad who owes Reggie a LOT of apologies that won’t really make up for the abuse he suffered.). 

[rmontro]

9 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Interesting that he gave Reggie an out and told him to reconcile with his father (even though it’s his dad who owes Reggie a LOT of apologies that won’t really make up for the abuse he suffered.). 

If you look at it, Hiram's father was a lot more honorable than Reggie's father, who would probably still be beating him if he could.  Hiram saw his father as weak and pathetic, and yet now he has the perspective to appreciate him.  This was some good storytelling - it's hard to go wrong with a classic gangster story.

I get the impression from the younger cast that they are a little embarrassed by some of the crazy storytelling on the show.  I'm not getting this from Mark Consuelos (Hiram), who probably saw all sorts of nonsense scripts while on All My Children lol.  Dude's a good actor.  The kids should remember that the craziness is part of the show's charm, but it's hard to fault them too badly.  I get the feeling they'd like to be doing something more serious.

[Moxie Cat]

KJ Apa only appeared in two scenes in this episode, barely had a line...but man, did he bring the Dylan McKay hard in that classroom scene! I did a double take. Someone is clearly clearly watching and appreciating Luke Perry-era 90210!

But Lili Reinhart needed MUCH more hair to be young Madchen Amick. I was obsessed with her hair during Twin Peaks.

Very enjoyable episode that for once I could 100% follow and not wonder: wait, is Betty's sister dead or alive? Are there actually aliens? How long was this show off the air?!

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

KJ Apa only appeared in two scenes in this episode, barely had a line...but man, did he bring the Dylan McKay hard in that classroom scene! I did a double take. Someone is clearly clearly watching and appreciating Luke Perry-era 90210!

I was laughing at him with the dark hair, until I remembered that's probably his natural hair color, or close to it.

[secnarf]

I thought this episode was light-years ahead of last week's. It does actually make me not want to totally give up on the show.

[SourK]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:41 PM, rmontro said:

If you look at it, Hiram's father was a lot more honorable than Reggie's father, who would probably still be beating him if he could.  Hiram saw his father as weak and pathetic, and yet now he has the perspective to appreciate him.  This was some good storytelling - it's hard to go wrong with a classic gangster story.

I get the impression from the younger cast that they are a little embarrassed by some of the crazy storytelling on the show.  I'm not getting this from Mark Consuelos (Hiram), who probably saw all sorts of nonsense scripts while on All My Children lol.  Dude's a good actor.  The kids should remember that the craziness is part of the show's charm, but it's hard to fault them too badly.  I get the feeling they'd like to be doing something more serious.

If I'm reading Mark Consuelos correctly, I think he actively likes it when the plot line is stupid, which probably makes it more fun. But I agree, there's a level of professionalism in showing up for the script, no matter how silly it is, and performing it as well as you can in the circumstances. I think KJ Apa does that, too, and I've come to respect him for that as I watch this show.

Riverdale is one of those trade-offs where you sacrifice being challenged as an artist in exchange for a bigger paycheque. So, psychologically, I think it would be harder to be on this show if you got cast straight out of drama school, because you wouldn't have a sense of where you fit into the industry, or what other jobs you could have booked, and you wouldn't be able to judge whether this was a trade-off worth making in the same way you could if you were 50 years old and you'd already had a career.

 

[Chaos Theory]

Mark Consuelos was a soap opera actor for years and those stories got pretty weird.     If you squint a little Riverdale is pure soap opera and would have fit right in with the All My Children, One Life To Live and General Hospital  lineup.       The only thing it’s missing is “The Man Everyone Wanted Dead” mystery when Hiram Lodge finally does get killed off.  

And maybe a switched at birth storyline between Archie and Jughead.

[tennisgurl]

That was a shockingly good episode, I guess all the show needed to do to improve its quality was to completely take a break from the entire storyline and stay away from most of the main characters. Hiram's backstory was a classic gangster story, complete with rise from the bottom to the top only to realize that the top was a lonely place, but it was actually told quite well. I do actually feel like I understand Hiram a lot more now, this answers a lot of questions about him without being ridiculously on the nose, and I did end up actually feeling sorry for him at times. I even found myself a bit sad while he was watching Hermione and Veronica trash talk him while he ate ice cream and watched then on his secret TV. He in no way deserves sympathy, nothing they said was wrong (although do either of them have room to judge?) and just the fact that he's spying on his family is super creepy, but him sitting there watching them sadly with his sad ice cream just really humanized him. Hiram then telling Reggie to get out while he could so that he wouldn't end up like him was also a really nice cap to his story. 

We also got a lot of nice Reggie development, which was good to see, and the parallels between Hiram's dad asking the mafia don to tell Hiram to leave the mob and Reggie's dad doing the same thing to Hiram was a surprisingly well written bit of symmetry, even if it doesent fully mirror each other considering Hiram's dad was a good man and father while Reggie's dad has always been a general asshole and abusive father to Reggie. I am glad that Reggie no longer has to work off his useless fathers debt and is leaving Hiram's organization, but I wish he wasnt just going from a crappy parental substitute to his actual crappy parent. As Reggie said, at least Hiram never actually hit his kid, unlike Reggie's dad. He might have said sorry, and him trying to get Hiram to let him leave was one of the only times he's shown any kind of decency or seemed to care about his son, but he will need to do a lot more than that to make up for a lifetime of abuse. I know that everyone on this show is ridiculously forgiving, especially of family members, but that's a lot to forgive. 

The "everyone plays their parents as teens" gimmick is something I have a soft spot for, I should not be surprised that young Hiram was played by Mark Consuelos's actual son, he really nails Hiram. He's got that charm and also that cold steely look he gets when he's about to start some kind of evil plan. I am sad that we only got a little bit of KJ as young Fred, he really nails teen Fred every time he plays him, like a mix of Fred and a very 90210 era Luke Perry. 

I feel like Hiram has really overstayed his welcome as the shows Big Bad, but this episode did get me more invested in him and I always love Mark Consuelos, so I was glad that he had a lot of good material this week. The guy is a pro, he gives even the most ridiculous plots actual gravitas. I guess I can also see why he spent so long with teens as his arch enemies, he murdered multiple people in a bloody rampage of revenge and took over the local mob while still a high schooler. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by tennisgurl

[the-grey-lady]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That was a shockingly good episode, I guess all the show needed to do to improve its quality was to completely take a break from the entire storyline and stay away from most of the main characters.

This has me rolling. Well done!

[HeShallBMySquishy]

On 8/19/2021 at 6:28 PM, rmontro said:

I'm not ordinarily a fan of these types of flashbacks, centered on mainly one character, but they do work sometimes.  There have been a few good ones on Walking Dead (where Morgan learned aikido, and Negan's backstory).  This one worked, and served as a nice break from the usual craziness.  Nice little gangster story - First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.  Jughead even mentioned Scarface in the intro.  Agreed, nice soft spot with Hiram letting Reggie go.

I think it's kind of hilarious that they have the regular actors playing their parents in these flashbacks.  Since they don't really look anything like their parents.  But the silliness works well on this show, plus it saves money and probably keeps their fans invested. 

Oh man, "Clear" is an all-time terrific episode. Although I think I had bailed by the time Negan got a redemption episode.

But wow, Ryan Robbins in the guest stars? Yes, please, anything Ryan Robbins wants, Ryan Robbins gets. That man is not only a Canadian treasure, but he is also a serious hottie. (/shallow)

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, HeShallBMySquishy said:

Oh man, "Clear" is an all-time terrific episode.

Just to clarify, the episode I was referring to was "Here's Not Here".  Some people don't like it, but you can't please everyone.

[Dobian]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:34 PM, SourK said:

If I'm reading Mark Consuelos correctly, I think he actively likes it when the plot line is stupid, which probably makes it more fun. But I agree, there's a level of professionalism in showing up for the script, no matter how silly it is, and performing it as well as you can in the circumstances. I think KJ Apa does that, too, and I've come to respect him for that as I watch this show.

Riverdale continues to be my guilty pleasure for the same reason Gotham was.  The showrunners for both series understood after the first season what made them work and then double-downed on it.  Gotham tried to take itself somewhat seriously in the first season but then season 2 rolled around and they amped up the crazy and kept amping it up until the end.  Riverdale has done the same.  This show would have been done three seasons ago if they kept writing it as a serious drama.