S03.E02: Give Me One Reason

[jewel21]

Jones fills Michael and Isobel in on bits from the past as they look for a way to save Max’s life. Meanwhile, Maria goes to extremes to try and stop a murder, and in order to move forward in her research, Liz will have to face her past.

Airdate: 08/02/2021

[Katesgr811]

Such a good episode. That’s it.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Good episode- the first one in a long while.

Calling it:  The person who was murdered in the vision is either Reporter Girl or Wyatt.  Maybe it's Jones, but I seriously doubt it.

Questions I know I shouldn't ask:  

1) If Michael has no limits, why was his hand able to be mangled by Papa Manes and only able to be healed by Max?  And since when did Michael have "no limits?"
2) I thought Alex didn't want anything to do with the Super Secret Black Ops Organization Deep Sky and that's why he broke up with his boyfriend?
 

I know that character is ultimately irredeemable, but Nice Wyatt is pretty cute. Racist Wyatt, is not- (it's amazing what a non-racist attitude can do for a person's looks). 

And I will probably go to hell for saying this, but I like the show much better when Liz isn't around.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I know that character is ultimately irredeemable, but Nice Wyatt is pretty cute. Racist Wyatt, is not- (it's amazing what a non-racist attitude can do for a person's looks).

Heh, yeah. Kudos, to you, Show. What was that hilarious throwaway line from amnesiac Wyatt?

[Dr. Kyle] Retrograde amnesia is usually temporary. Standard recommendation is to stick to your usual routine....You need to do the things you used to do, spend time with the people you know....Your friends aren't hard to find. Just look for any dick waving a Confederate flag.

[Conveniently but also humorously no longer racist amnesiac Wyatt] Okay, uh, things are fuzzy, but the South lost the war?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Scarlett45]

It was a good episode. I enjoyed Michael and Isabel having scenes together. 
 

Now did Michael’s Mom and the Dictator have a thing once upon a time, or was Michael conceived via assault/coercion?

Yeah the series is better without Liz!

Nathan Parsons is a better actor than he gets credit for. Jones and Max are distinctly different. 

10 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

1) If Michael has no limits, why was his hand able to be mangled by Papa Manes and only able to be healed by Max?  And since when did Michael have "no limits?"

I wondered that TOO!

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so I will say that this was a great episode. I did watch the premiere last week and thought it was ok but it needed to convince me to keep watching. This episode really sold me on a lot of their plots moving forward. However, there are still things that bug that I feel like I have to address....which is the Wyatt Long Redemption Tour.

Show...just because Wyatt has amnesia, it does not erase all the many years of racism that he expressed, and the years of torment he provided the town. I have absolutely zero interest in the show redeeming Wyatt Long through amnesia. I get that Amnesiac Wyatt has a clean slate and he's totally not racist because he doesn't have generational racism embedded in him, or whatever....but I really, really don't like the message that erasing someone's memory will suddenly make them non-racist. And I really don't care for that lesson being shown through a woman of colour. I'm sincerely hoping that it's not a seasonal arc of Wyatt being redeemed and him and Rosa falling in love or some shit like that. That would just prove that the issues didn't JUST lie with Carina if this is the route they take. So I'm hoping for them to either drop it very soon, or take it down a different path than the one I'm fearing. 

Other than that, the episode did have some strong plots set up. Thank GOODNESS they dealt with the poor Kyle treatment of last season. Him being an active member of the main stuff, interacting with Rosa and Maria, and getting to throw in some sass along the way really proves how great of a character he is. 

So, Michael finally figures out that his powers have no limits for some reason...and now he can apparently walk through fire? Ok? I guess him being the Dictator's son is...something. I'm intrigued by personal arcs like that so I'm curious to see where it goes. 

So, with Maria triggering another vision at the end (after having a rough go at attempting it earlier in the episode), I wonder if it'll be a mystery to us on who the dead person is and not the characters, or if she won't get the full picture until later on in the season. There's really only a select number of options it could be: either a minor character that we won't actually care about when they die (Wyatt Long, reporter chick who is probably going to cause some issues with whatever she finds out) or a main character. With how Isobel is crying in the vision and Rosa is comforting her, there's only a few options on who it could really be, such as her being the cause (which is just a rehash of season 1 in some ways) or it being someone she's gotten close to (I do wonder if it's Kyle, or Michael, who are the likely options). 

Either way, they DO have me wondering about the Funeral Mystery, so that's something.

Well, this show has kind of shown how Liz isn't needed to be around at all. She hasn't served any purpose in these two episodes and I know she's back for the rest of the season, but I didn't really miss her involvement here. Oops, that's a point off for the show literally showing the audience how the supposed main character isn't needed by isolating her for two full episodes and not even having an important plot in that time. 

Alex's storyline is probably the most interested I've been in him, as predictable as the plot was. 

[AnimeMania]

Why was Maria mad that it wasn't Max who saved her from the fall? If the purpose of jumping was to get an adrenaline rush, why does it matter who kept her from dying. Maria jumps in the daytime on a (busy?) street, forcing the aliens to use their powers. I am surprised that nobody saw them.

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Why was Maria mad that it wasn't Max who saved her from the fall? If the purpose of jumping was to get an adrenaline rush, why does it matter who kept her from dying. Maria jumps in the daytime on a (busy?) street, forcing the aliens to use their powers. I am surprised that nobody saw them.

Yeah. Well. Someone said this was Carina‘s last script, so… “Par for the course”? 

[Whodunnit]

Why was Maria mad that it wasn't Max who saved her from the fall?

I wondered about this too. One alien is as good as another and Max's ticker couldn't handle it. Her argument that it had to be him made no sense.

It wasn't even a proper dilemma because if she didn't want Michael to help her (emotional reasons?) she could have just asked Isobel.

 

[tvwatchergordis]

TBH IMO this season is already better than S2 by a lot. Yep only two episodes in so far but the pacing is great a the story arc this season seems interesting. 

1. So Max is basically a weapon to stop the Dictator? Hmm but Mr. Jones was the first one as he has the ability to heal/give life. Which caused Nora and Louise to want to create a clone from him.
2. Damn Nora wasn't as pure as we saw in S2 she kept high secrets from everyone. She has a darkness in her sure she wanted to protect her world and loved ones from the Dictator but what her and Louise did was not right. Poor Max. Unless Mr. Jones is lying he does seem a bit untrustworthy. 
3. Don't know how I feel about Max basically being an engineered clone and not a real alien/being.
4. Alex getting more of a story and arc this season? Yes! He's always been one of my faves, so the more he gets the better for me 😄.
5. Seems like Maria is also getting her own story S3 hopefully she stops being a prop *crosses fingers* Like her being selfless in order to save people though.
6. Alex basically joining Deep Sky to protect Michael and the others he loves is ❤️.
7. 😲 Michael is the savior? I'm a bit unclear on that but it seems like it. Or at least he's very important because 1. The flames didn't touch him and 2. He's apparently the Dictators son. Nora what the? LOL
8. S3 seems to be more about Michael and Alex but we'll see.
9. What is Liz's story this season two episodes in and I still don't know what it is 😓.
10. What gives? why no promos? I don't know gives me a bad feeling on the future of this show since the CW gives it no promotion.

[Whodunnit]

1 hour ago, tvwatchergordis said:

Unless Mr. Jones is lying he does seem a bit untrustworthy. 

🎼 Mr. Jones and me, tell each other fairy tales... 

[Cristofle]

I agree; this was the best episode in awhile. Maybe because I am most invested in the alien lore and Pod Squad. 

So I agree with Isobel early in the episode before she was fairly clearly manipulated by Jones telling her what she wants and needs to hear - no one lies ALL the time. Jones is most likely mixing lies with the truth. The question is, what are the lies and what is the truth. He's almost certainly playing up his own innocence and the sins/crimes of anyone who was against him. And he knows Max is sick, so he's playing off the desire Michael and Isobel have to keep him alive. Now, that said, if he wants to go ahead and heal Max and end this "Max is sick" plot once and for all, let's get that done before moving on to whatever his endgame is, please and thank you. 

Why did Louise break Max free if he was her prisoner? Was she regretting what she and Nora were doing? Max might feel safe around Jones to some extent because they share so much DNA - that doesn't mean he's protecting Max. I have questions around those realizations. I think it's possible - and more interesting - if Nora and Louise weren't all black and white, but I also don't think Jones can be entirely trusted so I think the truth falls somewhere in between. 

Also, re: his healing abilities - we never SAW that the healing makes him sick, did we? He just said so. I wonder if that was information he gleaned when he healed Max and he's sitting on exactly how powerful he is. 

LMAO, How To Tell Carina Was Involved In This Episode Plot : indicate Michael is an immortal god/prince! Eh. I care very little, but I have the same question about his hand. Also, Michael would be dead right now if Max hadn't healed him after Noah nearly killed him in the S1 finale.

Quote

Nathan Parsons is a better actor than he gets credit for. Jones and Max are distinctly different. 

Agreed. Max and Jones are very different characters and it's obvious in every scene. I still like how calm Jones is, and I like that you can just see little glimpses of him manipulating people and then watching the results. 

As for the rest of the episode:

-I like the Maria, Kyle, and Max trio. Although I feel bad for Kyle, lol, because Max and Maria have NO sense and poor Kyle has to run around keeping them from killing themselves all the time (although props to Max for refusing to play into Maria's suicide game and at least TRYING to radio in for help when she got on the ledge). Also, I wonder what alien info is hidden in what Kyle's mom gave him, because that has to be the point to that scene?

-I actually did enjoy watching Alex think his way out of his Men in Black scenario, and I'm interested to see where Deep Sky goes.

-I kind of like Max's singer who is actually a reporter? Is she supposed to be a bigger character? I wonder if she'll stumble across some alien stuff.

-LMAOOOOOOO, please tell me Liz is not here to steal more alien DNA, OMG. It's a pity the Pod Squad can't file a restraining order against her at this point. I'm sad about how much I'm not invested in her right now - I barely watched most of her scenes, and she was a favorite of mine in S1 and part of S2. But she basically lifts right out of this episode. Her only connection to the larger plot is she's apparently back to commit MORE ethics violations against the aliens who have exactly zero legal recourse in getting her to stop even though certainly Max and Michael have expressly told her to stop. 

-Finally, as I said last week, I am NOT HERE for claiming Wyatt has been cured of his racism because he lost the last ten years of his life. Just...not here for it. I am grossed out. 

[backhometome]

The Wyatt story is disturbing. I dont want to see a racist be redeemed. I hate any time he has screen time over any of my faves. i.e Kyle or Alex. Rosa deserves a better story than this gross plot. 

I like that Alex has an interesting arc this year. I hope he will be more incorporated with the rest of the cast soon. 

Glad to see they remembered that Rosa and Kyle are brother and sister this year. 

[ybrik]

And I thought it was just me that was liking how this season started. The only two exceptions are surprisingly the Ortecho’s storylines. Don’t really care about Liz and her research storyline or love interest. Really not liking the Rosa-Wyatt storyline and will downright hate it if it goes the romantic route. Seriously this guy hasn’t just been a racist he has assaulted her and her family. 

Agree that NP is doing a good job differentiating Jones and Max. Jones definitely gives off a vibe that he is hiding things.

Also agree that it is poor Kyle. He literally is these idiots doctor, confidante, and parent. 

Yeah not seeing any logic to Maria’s plan to jump off the roof. 

Not surprised that the other person with Alex was the one testing him but liked how Alex figured it out. I do wonder what that machine he is going to be looking into has to do with the Pod Squad 

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, tvwatchergordis said:

Don't know how I feel about Max basically being an engineered clone and not a real alien/being.

Max is a real alien same as the others according to what we were told. 
 

A clone is genetically the same as an identical twin. He’s just as much an alien as Jones is. Just artificially conceived and gestated. 
 

Something tells me the gorgeous woman with the pretty braids will be back and has something to do with the plot. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, ybrik said:

Yeah not seeing any logic to Maria’s plan to jump off the roof. 

I think I get the logic in Maria's mind, but I don't actually agree with it and still think it's stupid. Maria's goal was to scare herself enough to trigger a vision. Jumping off the roof AND having that fear that she'd be killing Max faster because of it was what I think she was going for. But it's still dumb because, if Max couldn't generate enough power to catch her in time, or if he caught her and died right on the spot, then either Maria would have been badly injured/dead, or she would have very likely changed her vision by killing Max, which would cause her plan to fail anyway.

Dumb plan, she's definitely not thinking logically at all.

[shapeshifter]

41 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think I get the logic in Maria's mind, but I don't actually agree with it and still think it's stupid. Maria's goal was to scare herself enough to trigger a vision. Jumping off the roof AND having that fear that she'd be killing Max faster because of it was what I think she was going for. But it's still dumb because, if Max couldn't generate enough power to catch her in time, or if he caught her and died right on the spot, then either Maria would have been badly injured/dead, or she would have very likely changed her vision by killing Max, which would cause her plan to fail anyway.

Dumb plan, she's definitely not thinking logically at all.

Ah. I think you have successfully explained what was going on with Maria's "plan," @Lady Calypso, it was a sign of her brain dysfunction --which is usually the case when folks attempt to jump off of buildings, but, on this show, should have been spelled out a little more.

And,  @Lady Calypso, I love your icon because I'm 99% sure it's the cat (or clone of the cat) that was used to create the Zoom cat filter on that hilarious video meme that was making the rounds early this year with the sad sack-voice meeting attendee saying woefully "I am not a cat."

[RachelKM]

7 hours ago, Cristofle said:

LMAOOOOOOO, please tell me Liz is not here to steal more alien DNA, OMG. It's a pity the Pod Squad can't file a restraining order against her at this point. I'm sad about how much I'm not invested in her right now - I barely watched most of her scenes, and she was a favorite of mine in S1 and part of S2. But she basically lifts right out of this episode. Her only connection to the larger plot is she's apparently back to commit MORE ethics violations against the aliens who have exactly zero legal recourse in getting her to stop even though certainly Max and Michael have expressly told her to stop. 

Right? 

I gave myself the night to sleep on it because I thought perhaps I was just being salty about Liz.  But no, as you guys aptly pointed out, she is 1) utterly unnecessary to the current plots, 2) apparently riding back into town to violate the bodily autonomy and privacy of the Pod Squad again, and 3) the part of the show I am more likely to grab a beverage during despite my ability to pause.

However, the rest of the episode was good and has me interested in this season. And I'm really enjoying seeing Kyle more involved, even if he does have the thankless job of being the only non borderline-suicidal idiot among them. I also like seeing him with Rosa and getting to develop a sibling relationship. 

It's an interesting dynamic. Kyle can be her older brother that Rosa can rely on in a way she can't with Liz.  Liz and Rosa grew up for nearly 20 years with Rosa being the older sibling.  So turning to Liz will always have not only the baggage of their past actions but the established sibling dynamic of Rosa being the big sister.  But Kyle was already the older one when he and Rosa began developing the familial relationship.  Everything about their relationship is being rebuilt in its entirety.  

Speaking of Rosa relying on Kyle, gurl... trust your brother about Wyatt.  Racism is learned, sure.  But being a violent asshole is a personality trait.  And that dude was a whole psychopath.  Also, losing 10 years would only take him back to when he was a racist 20 year old and knew Rosa before she died. Did he lose more than that?

If he wasn't an actual psycho who attempted to murder the Ortechos on more than one occasion, I might be okay ish with a redemption of Wyatt through amnesia on 3 very specific conditions. 1) He would have to learn who he was, recognize it as horrible and sincerely make amends through changed behavior and respecting his victims terms and boundaries about how and whether to forgive him.  2) He could not date anyone he hurt with his past behavior. And 3) it would have to occur on an entirely different show that was not taking screen time from characters I like.

I am interested in Jones. I have a feeling he is telling mostly truths but intermixing half truths and leaving out some information in order to manipulate Isobel and Michael.  As for Michael and his no limits, it's new.  But it has been shown that both Max and Isobel sometimes suffer repercussion from over extending themselves.  I don't think we've ever seen that with Michael.  It may have been a retcon.  But I think it is a continuity employing rather than continuity violating retcon. As for his hand, impervious to fire doesn't have to mean impervious to everything. 

I'm not sure how I feel about Alex's new story.  I want him with the rest of the cast.  So I'll reserve judgment to see if and how his storyline is integrated.

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

I gave myself the night to sleep on it because I thought perhaps I was just being salty about Liz.  But no, as you guys aptly pointed out, she is 1) utterly unnecessary to the current plots, 2) apparently riding back into town to violate the bodily autonomy and privacy of the Pod Squad again, and 3) the part of the show I am more likely to grab a beverage during despite my ability to pause.

I KNOW. Man, I was so frustrated. I knew from some interview that Liz appeared in Roswell around the end of this episode and silly me assumed it had to do with health issues either for Max or Maria (and then last week I wondered if she didn't come back because of Rosa and Wyatt), but no. She appears to be coming back for alien DNA samples that she has no business touching. I don't know where she thinks she's getting them - maybe she can think of some stash of Noah's DNA? I know her latest puppy said something about DNA stored in trees, lol, but I don't know what that inspired in her. But it doesn't really matter - she has no right to any alien's DNA, because she has no consent from any of them and two of them have explicitly told her they do not want her research to continue. I am so frustrated and put off by her attitude where she seems to feel she has some inherent right to alien DNA, that I swear if she tries to get on Max's case about her stupid research, I hope he threatens to blow up her next lab too. 

And the disappointing thing is, because she's so isolated right now, that if I take out this plot and how offensive I find her dismissive behavior about the Pod Squad's autonomy, there's basically nothing left. I'm not interested in anything else she's doing because she's not DOING much else and none of it seems important to the overall plot. I don't care about her new guy. He's not relevant to the plot so far. She's not interacting with Maria (what else is new) or the other members of the Pod Squad and she's barely interacting with Rosa. 

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

even if he does have the thankless job of being the only non borderline-suicidal idiot among them.

LOLOLOL. I like Max and Maria as characters on the whole, but man, you put them together and it is Dumb and Dumber. They both have massive martyr complexes and do not put a ton of thought into their plans for how they are going to get whatever information they want. They both just have so much "Oh, you told me not to do the thing? THAT SETTLES IT I AM DEFINITELY GOING TO DO THE THING" energy. And poor Kyle is just chasing them down trying to keep them alive. I felt really bad for him on the roof because he was like "Is she going to kill herself or kill Max? WHAT MEDICAL CRISIS DO I NEED TO PREPARE FOR HERE??" LOL. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Cristofle

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think I get the logic in Maria's mind, but I don't actually agree with it and still think it's stupid. Maria's goal was to scare herself enough to trigger a vision. Jumping off the roof AND having that fear that she'd be killing Max faster because of it was what I think she was going for. But it's still dumb because, if Max couldn't generate enough power to catch her in time, or if he caught her and died right on the spot, then either Maria would have been badly injured/dead, or she would have very likely changed her vision by killing Max, which would cause her plan to fail anyway.

Dumb plan, she's definitely not thinking logically at all.

Ah. I think you have successfully explained what was going on with Maria's "plan," @Lady Calypso, it was a sign of her brain dysfunction --which is usually the case when folks attempt to jump off of buildings, but, on this show, should have been spelled out a little more.

And,  @Lady Calypso, I love your icon because I'm 99% sure it's the cat (or clone of the cat) that was used to create the Zoom cat filter on that hilarious video meme that was making the rounds early this year with the sad sack-voice meeting attendee saying woefully "I am not a cat."

 

Okay.

I am not exactly going to be a Devil's advocate for Liz --not because I care about having virtual rotten fruit lobbed at me, but because I can't do it-- but I might have an idea of where the writers are going that is just this side of risking the extraterrestrial's lives in pursuit of "alien DNA" to heal the sick, raise the dead, yada yada.
Looking at this ridiculously long explanation from Heath in the lab in Cali:

Quote

[HEATH (LIZ'S LAB PARTNER)]The chemists on level three make it in-house. You said that your work in Roswell was lost forever. Well, for a moment, I would like to explore a slightly different possibility. This rum is a type that some people thought would never be made again, mainly because the trees that the barrels were made from--The barrels being a very important part of making rum, as I'm sure you know--well, that tree no longer exists. But do you think that the rum makers let that stop them? 
. . .
They found samples of the extinct tree in, uh, you know, old antique furniture, burnt-out barns... 
They made booze from germinated bacterium. Extinct bacterium. My point is nothing is lost forever, Roswell. We will find a way. I promise. 

[LIZ]You're a genius. 

[HEATH]Uh... Where are you going?

Maybe Liz is going to grow more of that rare plant that Maria and her Mom need to survive without catastrophic loss of brain function?

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Liz is going to grow more of that rare plant that Maria and her Mom need to survive without catastrophic loss of brain function?

That would certainly be better than prying dead alien DNA from somewhere (or worse, getting it from a live one, given that none of them strike me as willing participants). It would seemingly be a bit of a retcon, since the plant has previously been written as more of a shield from further harm than anything that has actual restorative properties (hence Kyle wants Maria to stop, not keep using the plant to heal herself), but I would accept that if it doesn't make Liz look even worse. I wish I didn't dislike her plot so much. She was a favorite of mine, and I was happy about it because I wasn't super attached to OG Liz Parker as her own character. But man, everything about her attitude here just sets me off because she doesn't seem to think the aliens have any rights to privacy or autonomy - it's like she thinks she's entitled to use them and their samples as her own eternal science experiments. If this plot could not even necessarily make it BETTER, but just not actively make it worse, that would make me happier.