S04.E01: Pigs

[Bad Example]

On 4/29/2021 at 2:19 PM, BrindaWalsh said:

I don't know what to make of this episode.  I kept watching it and thinking "huh."  And now I'm at today and still thinking "huh."

....

And did anybody else find the party in the barn scene to be really disturbing, or was that just mean?  

 

I've got a lot of "huh".  As for the party, I found it strange and it fed into the thought that kept occurring to me throughout the episode:  Is this for real, or is this June's fever dream?  A lot of this was just so, well, "huh, um, okay?" and off that I never fully bought into it as reality.  

And seriously.... June staggers up to the farm, a stranger says nothing more than something along the lines of "I thought there were more of you" and that's enough to make June decide that yes, obviously everything is fine and dandy, I'll let everyone know it's safe!

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Bad Example said:

I've got a lot of "huh".  As for the party, I found it strange and it fed into the thought that kept occurring to me throughout the episode:  Is this for real, or is this June's fever dream?  A lot of this was just so, well, "huh, um, okay?" and off that I never fully bought into it as reality.  

And seriously.... June staggers up to the farm, a stranger says nothing more than something along the lines of "I thought there were more of you" and that's enough to make June decide that yes, obviously everything is fine and dandy, I'll let everyone know it's safe!

He had the lantern as well.

Nothing is ever truly safe for people fighting with or escaping Gilead, but they do have signals.

[madpsych78]

On 4/29/2021 at 11:00 AM, greekmom said:

How long has this war between Gilead and the States have been going on and why is Texas its own republic?

 

 

LOL, this is the part I find the most believable. Of course of the 48 contiguous states, the state most likely to be its own republic is Texas. They don't call it the Lone Star State for nothing!

[cuppasun]

3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

LOL, this is the part I find the most believable. Of course of the 48 contiguous states, the state most likely to be its own republic is Texas. They don't call it the Lone Star State for nothing!

Yep! Texas was its own republic in the post-apocalyptic show Jericho, too (and it was the hero against the burgeoning fascist post-U.S. state that emerged elsewhere). I always find the futuristic Noble Texas a touch ironic, though not entirely surprising (speaking as an ex-Texan!) since the real Texas of the present day is far more yikes than yay for me...

[aghst]

Yeah one would think TX would be one of the strongest areas supporting Gilead, rather than Boston or NY.

But then again, Fred and Serena weren't southerners.  They were going around the country touting it, putting an educated face to what would become Gilead.

Who conquered NY and the Northeast?  You'd think there would have been heavy resistance up there.

Maybe once conquered, they made those areas the strongholds?

One thing we don't see a lot on the show are Latino characters.  Speaking of TX, that is where you'd expect to see a big Latino population.

[ZenMoonPi]

My first thought in that scene after Esther was such a bitch to Eyepatch was that she was scrambling for some way to ingratiate herself to June. I spent a chunk of my adulthood working with kids like her. (Yes, it happens more than you realise. Then again, I already live in Gilead.) They may very well have been assaulted. There is usually proof it happened What isn't always acknowledged is how the idea of the truth gets warped when these young people are gaslit, exploited, and removed into their own world of being identified as flesh to be bartered.

It wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't entirely truthful. She's been on her own and had to fight down shame and degradation to survive.

Edited May 1, 2021 by ZenMoonPi
Edited. I dropped a dubya.

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

I feel like this episode should be titled The One Where June Becomes Aunt Lydia.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

One burning question: does June have a new daughter?

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[chediavolo]

On 4/28/2021 at 12:47 PM, Hava said:

I'm tired of the June show. I have never been one to subscribe to the belief that the title of the show--The Handmaid's Tale--necessarily means that it is solely June's story, so my wish is for the show is to branch out and focus on other characters. I hate that she is suddenly the leader of Mayday and everyone is taking direction from her when we know that Mayday was established before June's involvement and likely spearheaded by other badass women. It really feels like peak white feminism and I absolutely abhor it.

White feminism? 

[chediavolo]

On 4/28/2021 at 4:39 PM, AntFTW said:

Glad I'm not the only one that saw the resemblance. I thought the actors were one and the same until I looked it up

Keirnan is 21 years old so I knew that wasn’t her, the girl looked much younger. But the resemblance is unbelievable. I first saw her on Young  Sheldon.  I thought at least they were related in some way. 

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

On 4/28/2021 at 4:39 PM, AntFTW said:

Glad I'm not the only one that saw the resemblance. I thought the actors were one and the same until I looked it up

Keirnan is 21 years old so I knew that wasn’t her, the girl looked much younger. But the resemblance is unbelievable. I first saw her on Young  Sheldon.  I thought at least they were related in some way. 

When I looked it up and saw that they were two different people, I thought maybe they were sisters... and I was wrong about that too 😂

[chediavolo]

On 4/29/2021 at 2:18 PM, SourK said:

So, now this is Dexter season five, with an adult psychopath raising someone who is spiritually their psychopath child. Okay.

As others have said, I still don't love the thing where June's a folk hero. I also didn't love that someone went way far out of their way to tell Serena and Fred about June's brave deeds just so we could watch them be shocked. It seems weird that everyone would be so focused on June, personally, rather than the larger situation.

I generally believe you should default to believing people who say they were sexually assaulted and, no matter what else happened, obviously Esther was forced to marry some old dude when she shouldn't have been, so the whole situation is wrong. However, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach on the details of what the child psychopath says.

Same. That was hilariously messed-up. If you believe this is a traumatized child, don't encourage her to murder someone and then carry the memory of that for the rest of her life. And then, if you do encourage her to do that, don't be like, "Make me proud!" and saunter off to have a cool drink or whatever. At least stick around to be supportive.

I guess we have to remember that June is traumatized also. All of these women are. It’s amazing that any of them have any normalcy left in their minds. We did see June sort of crack up last season so it makes sense that she’s acting diabolical. 

[kathe5133]

I knew she wasn't Kiernan, but I knew I knew her.  I watch on my computer or iPad, so I can have IMBD open so I quickly find out these things!

 

[JasonCC]

You know, the "Republic of Texas" mention in this episode....the fact Florida seems to still be in play ("wait, we have oranges? The war must be going better in Florida"), the fact somewhere in the Midwest/Rocky Mountain West seems to be an awful nuclear power accident called "the Colonies" all put together actually makes some the Canada/Gilead writing that previously I thought ridiculous make more sense. It seemed so unrealistic *our characters* had so much hinging on them with the Mexican delegation, the boycotts, the appeals for Baby Nicole, the talk of war with Canada over the "kidnapped" children.....it felt like the universe was Toronto and Boston. Now that full-fledged Gilead seems much smaller than the entire Lower 48 it's less unbelievable.

If we are to believe full-blown Gilead = New England, the mid-Atlantic states, the Rust Belt and some of the upper Middle West (but certainly not Chicago)? Makes more sense. I think what we see in the greater Boston area and then in DC are probably (based on the morsels they've thrown us) the high point of Gilead and the rest is....messier. The greater world is clearly a bit unawares how strong and wide the Gilead system is everywhere as well and views it with intense (often perverse) curiosity.

There was a comment in this episode too about Catholics being "good forgers". Without book it would be easy to forget Catholics are viewed with suspicion (Episode 1 a priest was hanging next to a gay man and an OB/GYN). I wonder if the Republic of Texas didn't brush off some of it's constitutional history, go-it-alone identity, and (with a big Latin, Catholic population) forged ahead as a neighboring republic with "just" an abortion and birth control ban (and maybe homosexuality).....but no need for the Puritan trappings and silly outfits. Plus, Texas would never ban foundation or hairspray.

Edited May 10, 2021 by JasonCC

[EllaWycliffe]

15 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

You know, the "Republic of Texas" mention in this episode....the fact Florida seems to still be in play ("wait, we have oranges? The war must be going better in Florida"), the fact somewhere in the Midwest/Rocky Mountain West seems to be an awful nuclear power accident called "the Colonies" all put together actually makes some the Canada/Gilead writing that previously I thought ridiculous make more sense. It seemed so unrealistic *our characters* had so much hinging on them with the Mexican delegation, the boycotts, the appeals for Baby Nicole, the talk of war with Canada over the "kidnapped" children.....it felt like the universe was Toronto and Boston. Now that full-fledged Gilead seems much smaller than the entire Lower 48 it's less unbelievable.

Well, I accept that the world building isn't very good. The Mexico delegation for example, pretty clearly asserts that the fertility issue is not confined to the continental US.  Yet the people in Canada don't seem bothered in the slightest over the impending population or any other countries and yes, this should be huge. The Florida talk does make it sound like some parts of Florida are in play. I'd add that June told Janine that Janine's son was in California, which pretty strongly implies California is now a stable part of Gilead.  The CIA agent said America consisted of Hawaii and Alaska (I think June has implied this as well)

So this allows for a Republic of Texas... but it's also problematic in that Texas as a state has a big population, is relatively capable of supporting itself.... and has MANY military bases.

Chicago as a rebel point is also kinda weird - I could see Oregon/Washington rising up or joining Canada but one city in the Midwest should be relatively easy - in a military sense - to simply starve out. It's implied that Canada isn't providing direct assistance and who else could even get close?

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, JasonCC said:

You know, the "Republic of Texas" mention in this episode....the fact Florida seems to still be in play ("wait, we have oranges? The war must be going better in Florida"), the fact somewhere in the Midwest/Rocky Mountain West seems to be an awful nuclear power accident called "the Colonies" all put together actually makes some the Canada/Gilead writing that previously I thought ridiculous make more sense. It seemed so unrealistic *our characters* had so much hinging on them with the Mexican delegation, the boycotts, the appeals for Baby Nicole, the talk of war with Canada over the "kidnapped" children.....it felt like the universe was Toronto and Boston. Now that full-fledged Gilead seems much smaller than the entire Lower 48 it's less unbelievable.

If we are to believe full-blown Gilead = New England, the mid-Atlantic states, the Rust Belt and some of the upper Middle West (but certainly not Chicago)? Makes more sense. I think what we see in the greater Boston area and then in DC are probably (based on the morsels they've thrown us) the high point of Gilead and the rest is....messier. The greater world is clearly a bit unawares how strong and wide the Gilead system is everywhere as well and views it with intense (often perverse) curiosity.

There was a comment in this episode too about Catholics being "good forgers". Without book it would be easy to forget Catholics are viewed with suspicion (Episode 1 a priest was hanging next to a gay man and an OB/GYN). I wonder if the Republic of Texas didn't brush off some of it's constitutional history, go-it-alone identity, and (with a big Latin, Catholic population) forged ahead as a neighboring republic with "just" an abortion and birth control ban (and maybe homosexuality).....but no need for the Puritan trappings and silly outfits. Plus, Texas would never ban foundation or hairspray.

There have been maps shown on the TV show, also maps created but not used on the show, but at official Handmaid's Tale show events.  You can google or look at the last post in the spoiler thread for more.  

[lucindabelle]

I thought June called Esther something else at one point- did anyone else hear that?

[Beatriceblake]

We got this one in the UK tonight.

I can never work out why I still watch the show until it comes back on and you remember that if nothing else, it is beautifully shot and acted.

I was really impressed by the actress who played Mrs Keyes, she was great at portraying the flashes of rage and the volatility you would expect from an angry traumatised teenager. I found June's method of bonding with her and keeping her on her side utterly chilling.