Nitpicking

[ghoulina]

When Dean was out of town during the whole Jess-car-crash debacle, did his entire family go? Or did his mom stay behind? Because I find it really odd that she would be making a roast immediately after returning from a long vacation, as Dean told Rory when they get back. Or maybe she really IS the modern day Donna Reed.

[JayInChicago]

Schrodinger's pot roast

[junienmomo]

When Dean was out of town during the whole Jess-car-crash debacle, did his entire family go? 

IIRC, it wasn't everyone in the family who went, which would bring up the other question - with such a big accident for SH, why wouldn't his relatives have heard about the accident?

[Taryn74]

LOL I tend to forget Dean even has a family, so I never thought about that.  But yeah, it is weird that he wouldn't have heard that Rory was in an accident before she told him.  Even if it wasn't a "big deal" to the townies, it would have been to her boyfriend's family!  You would think, anyway.

[readster]

LOL I tend to forget Dean even has a family, so I never thought about that.  But yeah, it is weird that he wouldn't have heard that Rory was in an accident before she told him.  Even if it wasn't a "big deal" to the townies, it would have been to her boyfriend's family!  You would think, anyway.

 

 Exactly. The same town that can hear about a rift between Lorelai and Rory in less than an hour but a car accident that involves Dean's girlfriend at the time and no one blinks and eye. Then again, after the cheating came out, no one reacted to that either or the fact that Dean was getting a divorce and back together with his ex-girlfriend. Yeah, hmmmm...

[txhorns79]

Exactly. The same town that can hear about a rift between Lorelai and Rory in less than an hour but a car accident that involves Dean's girlfriend at the time and no one blinks and eye.

 

Particularly with Lorelai and Christopher acting like they had been told that Rory might not make it through the night.  I mean, Lorelai and Christopher sleeping in chairs, at the foot of Rory's bed all night?  She had a broken arm, she wasn't in a coma on life support! 

[Aloeonatable]

Not that I think Lorelai's and Chris's reaction to Rory's accident was rational, I think what they were reacting to was what could have happened. 

[txhorns79]

Not that I think Lorelai's and Chris's reaction to Rory's accident was rational, I think what they were reacting to was what could have happened.

 

Maybe.  I just later recall that Lorelai waited like a week or so to tell Emily that the accident had even happened, so Lorelai and Christopher's dramatics over the arm fracture seem a little over the top in hindsight. 

[solotrek]

Particularly with Lorelai and Christopher acting like they had been told that Rory might not make it through the night.  I mean, Lorelai and Christopher sleeping in chairs, at the foot of Rory's bed all night?  She had a broken arm, she wasn't in a coma on life support! 

Lorelai also freaked the f out at Luke and got mad that he was worried about the minor that he had custody of. And then was upset that he placed his family obligations ahead of those of the town and Lorelai. Lorelai was in full hysterical mode that night.

[readster]

Lorelai also freaked the f out at Luke and got mad that he was worried about the minor that he had custody of. And then was upset that he placed his family obligations ahead of those of the town and Lorelai. Lorelai was in full hysterical mode that night.

 

 Also very true. Luke had plenty of reason to be worried and upset too on both and yet Lorelai went out like Jess had raped Rory and gotten away with it. It was how I saw with Logan getting away with less punishment than Rory after Yacht Gate. The excuse: "My lawyer has gotten me out of this all the time." "I'm good." Yet, someone who had no previous history of doing something like this or anything was put on 300 hours of Community service and the reaction is: "My life sucks, I'm going to live with grandpa and grandma now." Ummm... huh? That showed you the consequences of your actions how? Rory even finished her service hours fasters because she didn't have a job or school. Logan comes back going: "So, almost done huh?" "Want to party?" Yet, then Logan doesn't want to graduate and "go into the family business" then Mitchum and family cut him off and everything.

[Guest]

Maybe.  I just later recall that Lorelai waited like a week or so to tell Emily that the accident had even happened, so Lorelai and Christopher's dramatics over the arm fracture seem a little over the top in hindsight. 

And came up with a crazy story to tell Emily because "car accident" is just so awful to say.

[ghoulina]

Well, we see in the next episode just how rose colored everyone's view of Rory is. Not a single person in the town thought the accident could have been anyone's fault but Jess's - save Luke, of course. Babette, Taylor, Lorelai - they all assumed it just HAD to have been completely Jess's fault, corrupting poor, sweet, naive Rory like that. So I can see, with that mentality, why Lorelai was hesitant to tell Emily. Emily had already warned Lorelai, rather sternly, not to let Rory get involved with Jess. And Lorelai was determined never to let her mother be proven right. 

[solotrek]

Why did Lorelai go to the FND that Logan was invited to? She clearly wasn't over what happened with the whole Emily meddling with Luke/Christopher situation. If she wanted to meet with Rory and Logan, why not ask Rory to arrange coffee, lunch or dinner with Logan prior to that Friday? Did she just want to see her parents salivating all over Logan?

[junienmomo]

Why did Lorelai go to the FND that Logan was invited to? 

 

It is a very slippery slope to start applying too much logic to this series. One begins with shaking one's head at situations most toddlers could avoid, and it ends with you sitting next to Taylor in the diner, who is muttering "turnips, turnips, turnips." 

Your muttering will be whatever lack of logic bothers you the most. 

I recommend learning hockeypuck, rattlesnake, monkey monkey underpants. It's actually quite soothing. 

[JayInChicago]

This show really wanted to have its cake and eat it too. They wanted a big showdown with Emily regarding Christopher/Luke which of course would blow the whole thing with Lorelai skyhigh, as honestly most sane grown people would react when their mother tries to sabotage their current relationship--BUT--they also needed to get Lorelai back under the Gilmore roof for FDN. So they just said, f it, she's back. In my rewatching it's always a big credibility losing moment for me. It's true though--Lorelai can be unpredictable. But this particular time violates her character, besides which she's consistently shown as happy when she can get out of the FND obligation at various points in the series.

[dustylil]

The thing is though Lorelai had no FND obligations after Chilton. The deal for prep school  was that a) the senior Gilmores loaned Lorelai the money for Chilton b) Lorelai would keep her parents informed as to what was going on in her and Rory's lives and c) Lorelai and Rory would attend dinner once a week with Richard and Emily. When Lorelai repaid the loan, all obligations were over.  

 

Once Rory was at Yale, she was the one with the requirement  to attend FNDs. She had borrowed the money, not her mother, and she was the one who had the contracted commitment to appear once a week in Hartford for an excellent meal. Lorelai only went because it was her assured way of seeing Rory. That Rory couldn't spare her mother an hour for coffee in New Haven is a topic for another time  :)

 

So why Lorelai subjected herself after  Season 3 to most of those FNDs was one of the many mysteries of the series. Like eating all that fast food and not having weight or health issues. Or the elasticity of money and wealth.

[BC Mama]

Why did Lorelai go to the FND that Logan was invited to? She clearly wasn't over what happened with the whole Emily meddling with Luke/Christopher situation. If she wanted to meet with Rory and Logan, why not ask Rory to arrange coffee, lunch or dinner with Logan prior to that Friday? Did she just want to see her parents salivating all over Logan?

The only in character explanation is that Lorelai couldn't stand the idea that Emily would learn something about Logan, that lorelai didn't know!

[GreenScreenFX]

I'm pretty sure Lorelai wanted to be with Rory and also deflect any Emily and Richard shenanigans. Similar to a soldier jumping on a live grenade.

My response was to Dusty not BC.

[dustylil]

GreenScreen, with respect, what grenade-worthy antics were Richard and Emily directing at Rory? Other than that second season shabby treatment of Dean, I don't recall a single FND that didn't seem to be a meeting of the Mutual Adoration Society of Rory and the senior Gilmores. Even Lorelai admitted Rory's relationship with her grandparents was warm, affectionate and loving.

 

The grandparents may have schemed against Lorelai and attempted at times to undermine her authority as Rory's mother, but Rory herself was completely doted on. Unless my memory is failing me, until Rory came to that FND after the vow renewal debacle with the (perfectly understandable) chip on her shoulder, the relationship was very harmonious.

[txhorns79]

So why Lorelai subjected herself after  Season 3 to most of those FNDs was one of the many mysteries of the series. Like eating all that fast food and not having weight or health issues. Or the elasticity of money and wealth.

 

I'm pretty sure it was addressed, and Lorelai said she would go so she could see Rory.  In Those are Strings, Pinocchio, Lorelai and Rory have this conversation about the FND after Rory tells Lorelai that Emily and Richard are loaning her the Yale money:

 

 

LORELAI: They are manipulating you to manipulate me.

RORY: How are they doing that?

LORELAI: Rory, don't you see? If you go to Friday night dinners, Mom knows I'll go to just to be with you.

RORY: She wasn't thinking that.

LORELAI: They're getting exactly what they want.

 

 

GreenScreen, with respect, what grenade-worthy antics were Richard and Emily directing at Rory?

 

I think GreenScreen said Lorelai would go to the dinner to keep them from happening, not that they had happened.  Though obviously the Male Yale party springs to mind as an antic of Emily and Richard's directed at Rory.   

Edited February 27, 2015 by txhorns79

[Guest]

The thing is though Lorelai had no FND obligations after Chilton. The deal for prep school  was that a) the senior Gilmores loaned Lorelai the money for Chilton b) Lorelai would keep her parents informed as to what was going on in her and Rory's lives and c) Lorelai and Rory would attend dinner once a week with Richard and Emily. When Lorelai repaid the loan, all obligations were over.  

 

Once Rory was at Yale, she was the one with the requirement  to attend FNDs. She had borrowed the money, not her mother, and she was the one who had the contracted commitment to appear once a week in Hartford for an excellent meal. Lorelai only went because it was her assured way of seeing Rory. That Rory couldn't spare her mother an hour for coffee in New Haven is a topic for another time  :)

 

So why Lorelai subjected herself after  Season 3 to most of those FNDs was one of the many mysteries of the series. Like eating all that fast food and not having weight or health issues. Or the elasticity of money and wealth.

 

I think Lorelai's personality was one that often had FOMO, Fear of Missing Out.  She didn't want to go, but she also didn't want to not go and end up feeling like she missed out on something. You saw this season 1 with the Christmas party in Forgiveness and Stuff, season 4 with the football game in Ted Koppel's Night Out, and with the Friday night dinners seasons 4 - 7.  I think she was afraid they would have a nice time and she'd miss out on it.

[timimouse]

Why did Lorelai go to the FND that Logan was invited to? She clearly wasn't over what happened with the whole Emily meddling with Luke/Christopher situation. If she wanted to meet with Rory and Logan, why not ask Rory to arrange coffee, lunch or dinner with Logan prior to that Friday? Did she just want to see her parents salivating all over Logan?

 

I may be wrong, but I vaguely remember something along the lines of her thinking that as the mother she should be there because she never wanted her parents to experience anything Rory-related without her and meeting the boyfriend was a big deal. It's actually a little disturbing how adamant she was about them not influencing Rory in anyway and / or encouraging her into their world (RE: her reaction to the débutante ball and applying to Yale vs Harvard)

[GreenScreenFX]

That is what I intended with my comment txhorns79, thank you.

Edited cause my spell check can't spell.

Edited February 28, 2015 by GreenScreenFX

[GreenScreenFX]

Who knows what Emily and Richard would have devised for Rory had Lorelai not been a road block (grenade scenario). It was never my intention to suggest the elder Gilmore's ever had an issue with Rory. It just appeared they wanted a "do over."

[GreenScreenFX]

Specifically, I am thinking of Richard cornering Rory alone in the kitchen.... Out of ear shot of her mother....to ask her to go on a "road trip" to Yale to see his buddies... Which turned out to be an interview.. Lorelai knew IMMEDIATLY something was fishy.

[BC Mama]

I'm with you Green! And, stuff that might not seem grenade-like to the rest of my us, may have seemed so to Lorelai! Like when Emily arranged for Richard to teach Rory to golf... lorelai acted like Rory was spending an afternoon getting a colonoscopy, not spending time at a country club!

[GreenScreenFX]

Whatever.

Edited February 28, 2015 by GreenScreenFX

[GreenScreenFX]

I only meant that it seemed Lorelai spent a lot of time watching out for Rory and what her parents might do when she wasn't around.... both sides were petulant .... It's really tiring defending people who may or may not be the most narcissistic people on earth.

Edited February 28, 2015 by GreenScreenFX

[ghoulina]

I have to agree that Emily and Richard seemed to want a do-over with Rory. I know they loved her to death and I don't think they intended anything malicious. But I do think they had a tendency to try and push THEIR ways on Rory - the cotillion, the Chilton birthday party, the road trip to Yale, etc. And Lorelai knew that Rory was such a sweetie and a bit of a pushover when it came to them. So I think she wanted to be around as much as she could to make sure they didn't try and sweet talk Rory into anything. 

[BC Mama]

Whatever.

 

 

I only meant that it seemed Lorelai spent a lot of time watching out for Rory and what her parents might do when she wasn't around.... both sides were petulant .... It's really tiring defending people who may or may not be the most narcissistic people on earth.

 

umm... I was agreeing with you. :)

[GreenScreenFX]

BC MAma.. So sorry, and thank you.

[timimouse]

I'm not sure if this is nitpicking or not but it has been bugging me in my latest re-watch... It's safe to say that the Gilmores went to Europe fairly often (at least every 2 years if I am not mistaken) and Lorelai lived with them until she was 16; did they NEVER take her with them? I find it very hard to believe that her trip with Rory was her first trip to Europe. It's not like she left their house as a baby... she was 16! I sometimes think they forget that in her character development. At times she says or does things that make me wonder if they forget she was raised with a privileged lifestyle and went to a damn good prep school and should know better.

[JayInChicago]

It also begs the question of why they didn't visit Emily's sister Hopey more often...

[txhorns79]

It's not like she left their house as a baby... she was 16! I sometimes think they forget that in her character development. At times she says or does things that make me wonder if they forget she was raised with a privileged lifestyle and went to a damn good prep school and should know better.

 

That's a very good point.  Maybe they figured Lorelai would act like a pill during European vacations and not appreciate the experience, so they didn't take her? 

[timimouse]

That's a very good point.  Maybe they figured Lorelai would act like a pill during European vacations and not appreciate the experience, so they didn't take her? 

 

No matter how bratty a child is, I think they're gonna love to travel and get to see things like the Eiffel Tower or Big Ben or any of those famous landmarks. Plus, they wouldn't have to deal with her (if she were say under 12) as they would probably just take the nanny with them and if she were older than that, she could just be left on her own. 

It just doesn't add up...

[dustylil]

They never took her to the Harvard/Yale game either. And that always seemed like a lighthearted, fun thing to do. What with Dan and the Whiffenpoofs and all that eating out-of-doors.

And this old chestnut - despite the emphasis placed on education and tradition by both Richard and Emily, Lorelai was never expected to attend either of the alma maters of her parents. She was intending to go to Vassar.

[txhorns79]

And this old chestnut - despite the emphasis placed on education and tradition by both Richard and Emily, Lorelai was never expected to attend either of the alma maters of her parents. She was intending to go to Vassar.

 

I would think Vassar would be entirely acceptable to either Richard or Emily.  It's a Seven Sisters' school.  Though more to the point, we don't actually know what would have happened during Lorelai's college application process, or what she would have eventually chosen or been pressured to choose.  After all, Rory spent the better part of the first three seasons of the show telling everyone how much she wanted to go to Harvard.  Then once it came time to pick, she changed her mind and went to Yale.     

 

 

No matter how bratty a child is, I think they're gonna love to travel and get to see things like the Eiffel Tower or Big Ben or any of those famous landmarks.

 

I can tell you for a fact that isn't true.  Having taken a surly 12 and 13 year old across country, their love of travel ends fairly quickly when they aren't particularly interested in the destination.  I would say it more is that some kids like travel and sight seeing, others don't care or would rather do it absent their parents.  

Edited March 3, 2015 by txhorns79

[solotrek]

I would think Vassar would be entirely acceptable to either Richard or Emily.  It's a Seven Sisters' school.  Though more to the point, we don't actually know what would have happened during Lorelai's college application process, or what she would have eventually chosen or been pressured to choose.

 

One of my best friends went to Vassar, but this is still what comes to mind for me. Very Lorelai.

 

 

 

I can tell you for a fact that isn't true.  Having taken a surly 12 and 13 year old across country, their love of travel ends fairly quickly when they aren't particularly interested in the destination.  I would say it more is that some kids like travel and sight seeing, others don't care or would rather do it absent their parents.

 

Not to mention. even as an adult Lorelai was hell bent on making every outing with her parents miserable. I can only imagine what teenage or younger Lorelai was like. Plus if her parents were going in the summer, it seemed like her parents sent her to summer camp (a lot of allusions to summer camp in the show). I worked at a summer camp attended by the kids of very, very rich people. About 85% of my campers were getting letters from their parents from their European/some sort of international trip during their 4 week stay.

[txhorns79]

Not to mention. even as an adult Lorelai was hell bent on making every outing with her parents miserable.

 

Seriously.  I remember that spa trip she and Emily took where Lorelai spent the first day acting like a bratty child.  Yes Lorelai, your mother is such a monster for wanting to spend time with you!  How dare she! 

[Aloeonatable]

I see the Lorelai/Emily relationship from Lorelai's perspective as one of "I love you because you are my mother, but I don't like you as a person." The reason I say this is there is no physical contact. Have we ever seen Lorelai kiss or hug her parents? Maybe in their world, parents and children don't show physical affection, but I find it odd and sad that they don't have that. I never have a visit with my mother or my children where I don't greet them and depart from them with kisses and hugs.

[txhorns79]

The reason I say this is there is no physical contact. Have we ever seen Lorelai kiss or hug her parents? Maybe in their world, parents and children don't show physical affection, but I find it odd and sad that they don't have that. I never have a visit with my mother or my children where I don't greet them and depart from them with kisses and hugs.

 

In fairness, Lorelai and her parents spent about fifteen years before the series begins in a state of estrangement and mostly isolation from one another.  Lorelai made it pretty clear she wanted as little to do with them as possible (aside from attending holiday parties) and they returned the favor.  In that circumstance, it isn't surprising to me we see so little affection between them during the series.  I can't speak to your relationship with your mom and children, but it sounds as if it is in a much better state than the Gilmore clan.   

Edited March 3, 2015 by txhorns79

[readster]

I see the Lorelai/Emily relationship from Lorelai's perspective as one of "I love you because you are my mother, but I don't like you as a person." The reason I say this is there is no physical contact. Have we ever seen Lorelai kiss or hug her parents? Maybe in their world, parents and children don't show physical affection, but I find it odd and sad that they don't have that. I never have a visit with my mother or my children where I don't greet them and depart from them with kisses and hugs.

 

 In the final episode, Lorelai did hug Emily and the look on her face was: "Why are you even doing that?"

[junienmomo]

 In the final episode, Lorelai did hug Emily and the look on her face was: "Why are you even doing that?"

Lorelai also described her childhood to Luke by saying that her father was responsible and present, but essentially never interacted with her. No playing, nothing. I can imagine it was similar with Emily. 

There are families and even cultures in which hugging is not common among families who really love each other.

[readster]

Lorelai also described her childhood to Luke by saying that her father was responsible and present, but essentially never interacted with her. No playing, nothing. I can imagine it was similar with Emily. 

There are families and even cultures in which hugging is not common among families who really love each other.

 

 

 Oh I completely believe that. Plus, if you reflect back on how Trix raised Richard, I can believe very much he did interact and everything but I highly doubt he played tea party or rode a bike with her. At the vow renewal, Richard even spoke how they couldn't keep a nanny more than week due to Lorelai having such a severe earache because forget stopping and comforting your child over something like that. I hate to think what the elder Gilmores if Lorelai broke a bone or something.

Edited March 3, 2015 by readster

[KatWay]

I'll agree that it's weird that the Gilmores apparently had never taken Lorelai to Europe. My parents are nowhere near as rich as the Gilmores and they have been taking me along on vacations since I was four years old. Lorelai was sixteen when she moved out.

 

Then again I never got the impression that the Gilmore family did a lot of stuff together when Lorelai was a kid. That's something they tried to do differently with Rory, I think. Richard in particular was a much more hands-on grandfather than he'd ever been a father, I expect.

[BC Mama]

I'm not that surprised that lorelai never accompanied her parents to Europe. They made it clear that they went to Europe every other year, in the fall. Lorelai would have been in school.

[dustylil]

The cynical side of me wonders if they decided to travel at that time of year at least in part because Lorelai was in school.

 

In any event, Lorelai may have been in school when her parents were off  travelling but I doubt that many schools - at least  at the elementary level - would object to a child taking time away from classes to visit Europe. The educational value of such a trip would outweigh any missed lessons. Indeed, assignments could be taken along to do during down time so she could keep up in certain subjects.

 

To be sure it was a public elementary school, but when I took my then twelve year old daughter to the Netherlands for a week in April some years ago (for her to see the Anne Frank Museum and me to view the Keukenhof Spring Flower Gardens) her teachers and the principal were most encouraging and supportive.

 

In other words, I think that had Richard and Emily wanted to take Lorelai to Europe with them, they could have done so. Can anybody imagine being a teacher or school administrator and saying no to Emily Gilmore? Yikes.

Edited March 4, 2015 by dustylil

[readster]

 

Can anybody imagine being a teacher or school administrator and saying no to Emily Gilmore? Yikes.

 

 

 Why would they? They got told "NO" a lot during the entire series, in which both Richard and Emily threw fits. 

[solotrek]

To be sure it was a public elementary school, but when I took my then twelve year old daughter to the Netherlands for a week in April some years ago (for her to see the Anne Frank Museum and me to view the Keukenhof Spring Flower Gardens) her teachers and the principal were most encouraging and supportive.

 

I spent my spring break+1 week in China during 5th grade. My teachers and the school were very excited for me, they just gave my parents all the worksheets I'd need to catch up on before hand. I'd honestly think private schools would be more lenient than a public school, especially at the elementary school level.

[Betweenyouandme]

Yeah. When I was little a girl took off school two full weeks every year in elementary just to go to Disney World.

The Gilmores probably started going without Loralai when she was really little and then just kept with the routine. Maybe they mostly went out to eat and did stuff they thought Lorelai would be a pain during.