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Batman: The Animated Series - General Discussion

GHScorpiosRule
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BetterButter
BetterButter

Kevin Conroy, Voice of Batman, Dead at 66

Wiendish Fitch
Wiendish Fitch

I heard the awful news. I hate this year so much.  Adam West, Michael Keaton, Christian Bale, Robert Pattinson... you can keep them all. Kevin Conroy was, is, and always will be Batman to me. Bat

Athena
Athena

I was at a cafe where they put in the tip jars as A or B option and they had "Batman: Robert Pattinson" and "Batman: Ben Affleck". My brain went to "B:TAS Kevin Conroy." If you know you know. Als

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Lantern7

Lantern7

(edited)

I got this in my e-mail. Just curious if anyone else here was contemplating going.

ETA: I meant that I already got my admission, mostly because I go to shows in my general vicinity. I've gotten an autograph from Kevin, as well as a pic with him, but I'm usually adverse to that unless I like the person.

Edited by Lantern7
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Twilight Man

Twilight Man

So, there has been "a few" comic books that were drawn in the style of

the 1990s Timm-Verse cartoon.  The comic books also claimed to be "based"

off of the cartoon. First, a comic that (mostly) featured "one-and-done" stories,

then a comic that featured many new characters that were never shown in the cartoon.

It even had (at first) an on-going story-arc that had Bruce (as Matches) infiltrate the False Face Gag (led by Black Mask).  It hilariously had henchman Eel O'Brien (pre Plastic Man) as a mook.  Even Andrea showed up eventually and tried to attack Batgirl.

Now, Volume Three is coming.

DC Comics has announced an all-new Batman Adventures based off of the 1990s cartoon, and drawn in the style.

This comic is going to feature even MORE characters from the "main" Bat-Verse that were never shown in the cartoon, like Jason Todd and Azrael.

The article is even claiming that the main reason they are doing this is to make (and sell) more of the (slightly bigger--- slightly better looking ------ and slightly more expensive than the original 1990s)     collectible figures that they have been selling for a couple of years now.

Well, this is a comic book character; the whole point is to make money, I guess.

 

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

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1 hour ago, Twilight Man said:

 

Bruce Timm is finally bringing back our hero;

however, it's a reboot.

His (costume) ears are definitely longer,

and as yet no word on whether Conroy will be doing his voice.

If Conroy is not Bats, I'm not interested.

Yeah, I'm fussy and stubborn.

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Hiyo

Hiyo

I’m more worried about JJ Abrams being involved. 

I mean, I get why he would want to be involved, given his daddy issues fetish, but still.

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Athena

Athena

I was at a cafe where they put in the tip jars as A or B option and they had "Batman: Robert Pattinson" and "Batman: Ben Affleck". My brain went to "B:TAS Kevin Conroy." If you know you know.

Also I feel like live action wise, there are better options than Affleck.

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

(edited)
10 hours ago, Athena said:

I was at a cafe where they put in the tip jars as A or B option and they had "Batman: Robert Pattinson" and "Batman: Ben Affleck". My brain went to "B:TAS Kevin Conroy." If you know you know.

Also I feel like live action wise, there are better options than Affleck.

Seriously, THOSE were the only two live action Batmans they could think of?! Pathetic.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

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(edited)
22 hours ago, Athena said:

I was at a cafe where they put in the tip jars as A or B option and they had "Batman: Robert Pattinson" and "Batman: Ben Affleck". My brain went to "B:TAS Kevin Conroy." If you know you know.

Also I feel like live action wise, there are better options than Affleck.

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Seriously, THOSE were the only two live action Batmans they could think of?! Pathetic.

I’ve always said that Kevin Conroy is the BEST BATS. That’s it. First runner up is Christian Bale and then Michael Keaton.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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Tenshinhan

Tenshinhan

On 6/6/2022 at 10:53 AM, Athena said:

I was at a cafe where they put in the tip jars as A or B option and they had "Batman: Robert Pattinson" and "Batman: Ben Affleck". 

I definitely would have spoken to management about the issue and if not properly addressed, would not be returning to that establishment again.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

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I spent the end of the weekend watching this series from the blu-ray collector's edition that came out five years ago, I think? For the 25th Anniversary?

I just don't understand the mindset of having the episodes out of order from air dates. Basically combining the first two seasons as Season One, the third season as Season Two, and the fourth, horrible season as Season Three.

I've said it before and as far as I'm concerned, I'm saying it again:

I will never understand why they changed the wonderful noir-pulpy-Fleischer style  Black-Deco animation to that fugly "stylized" craptastic animation, that stripped most of the characters of their facial expressions, removed the iconic look of Joker, by erasing his mouth and eyes; TOTALLY change the look of Selina/Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Riddler, and give them all this pasty white rice powder like face make-up, and aged them (Gordon, Mayor Hill, Bullock), about 10 years, when really, only three years had passed between "The Return of Batgirl" (which, seriously? You only have Bruce in ONE scene, telling Dick to watch out for Selina in the show's series finale?!🤬🤬) and the premiere of the fourth and final season with "Holiday Knights" even though it technically premiered in Season Two of Superman: The Animated Series' "World's Finest." The only character whose change looked good was The Riddler.

But my biggest issue was turning Bats, into this unmitigated, cold, and raging ASSHOLE. Gone was all the nuance of Bruce/Bats from Seasons 1-3, where despite Harry/Two-Face's further descent into villainy, Bruce never gave up on him, and still considered him a friend. Gone. All Gone. And that BULLSHIT that Bats not trusting Selina was why things could never work out between them. When it was her inability to stop committing crimes.

Never, never would Bruce miss Dick's graduation. I don't care if the thugs he was chasing would lead him to Joker. And just Fuck all that noise about taking Dick down "a darker path" when it was so bloody unnecessary. Paul Dini said in one of the interviews how the plan was to expand on Babs' and Dick's romance, but they decided on that "darker path" instead, even though Subzero is part of its continuity and canon, and WE SAW that Babs and Dick were in a committed relationship and serious about each other. It was BEYOND Gross what Timm and company did with Bruce and Babs. Even Timm admits they "knew it was wrong" but did it anyway. BLECH. I'll never forgive them for that. Then to have Bruce state "You really care about him, don't you?" in "Old Wounds" flashback. DUH!!! And that horrid mullett Dick sported. UGH.

They at least redeemed Bats when Justice League/Justice League Unlimited came around. Well, a happy medium, as Tim was the Robin in this universe.

And I guess Babs really doesn't have faith in her father, if Scarecrow's fear drug brought out her deepest fear that deep down, she thinks her father thinks that Bats is a raging psycho, and begins a campaign to destroy Bruce, Dick, and Tim, instead, of, oh, I don't know, go after the one who ACTUALLY MURDERED HIS DAUGHTER. How was Bats a "murderer" as Bullock spouted when he came down and saw Babs was dead.

Yeah, yeah, fear drug, Babs fear, blah, blah, blah.

I really liked how Gordon told her she didn't need to say anything, because I believe he KNEW she was Batgirl. She's his DAUGHTER. How could he not recognize her voice or that hair?

Then I watched the special features and they had this really long featurette about "The Heart of Batman" where everyone was interviewed; well, mostly everyone. And they couldn't say enough about the animation and how much hard work it was, and how much they loved it, yet they went ahead and just stopped with it and came up with the crappy animation in the final season. I don't care that Timm said in an earlier interview from the original series that it was to "line up" with Superman: TAS, because the animation in that was still Fleisher-ish, but in daytime, while the characters from this show looked downright horrid. But they never touched on why the animation changed. And this was the most I'd seen of Loren Lester, who spoke about the work process. I'll always wonder why he was never included in the interviews in the special features when the show first came out on DVD. Dick/Robin was an integral part of the series. And this featurette had Tara Strong talk about Batgirl, as if she had always played her. Nope. First it was Melissa Gilbert (who was awful with her nasally "Daaaaaad!"); I really liked the actress who played her in Subzero: Mary Kay Bergman. Strong just played her in the final season and a few movies. But I guess she was interviewed because she played her the longest.

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Wiendish Fitch

Wiendish Fitch

I heard the awful news. I hate this year so much. 

Adam West, Michael Keaton, Christian Bale, Robert Pattinson... you can keep them all. Kevin Conroy was, is, and always will be Batman to me. Batman: The Animated Series wasn't just a masterclass of animation, but I consider it the gold standard of the lore of Batman.

Unlike more recent portrayals, Conroy didn't just capture the Dark Knight's brooding sense of justice, he also understood Batman's heart. Bruce Wayne wasn't just driven by vengeance and angst, he truly cared about people and wanted to right the wrongs of the world. Conroy's Batman had a support system of people he loved and cared about, he wasn't some solipsistic loner wallowing in self-pity (are you paying attention, writers?!). He was intolerant of crime and cruelty, but was capable of empathy and compassion, as well (remember when he comforted Baby Doll, even after her reign of terror?).

Maybe I'm just old and stubborn, but no portrayal of Batman will ever come close to the 90s series, and Kevin Conroy's performance is a major reason why.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

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7 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I heard the awful news. I hate this year so much. 

Adam West, Michael Keaton, Christian Bale, Robert Pattinson... you can keep them all. Kevin Conroy was, is, and always will be Batman to me. Batman: The Animated Series wasn't just a masterclass of animation, but I consider it the gold standard of the lore of Batman.

Unlike more recent portrayals, Conroy didn't just capture the Dark Knight's brooding sense of justice, he also understood Batman's heart. Bruce Wayne wasn't just driven by vengeance and angst, he truly cared about people and wanted to right the wrongs of the world. Conroy's Batman had a support system of people he loved and cared about, he wasn't some solipsistic loner wallowing in self-pity (are you paying attention, writers?!). He was intolerant of crime and cruelty, but was capable of empathy and compassion, as well (remember when he comforted Baby Doll, even after her reign of terror?).

Maybe I'm just old and stubborn, but no portrayal of Batman will ever come close to the 90s series, and Kevin Conroy's performance is a major reason why.

You said it so much better than any words I could come up with. And WB animation can just SUCK IT. They had a rare talent in Conroy, but refused to use him in the movies, and instead used losers who didn't UNDERSTAND who Bats was; his compassion for humanity, underneath the broody persona who fought for justice. In his own way.

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

“I am vengeance. I…am…BATMAN!”

One of the many reasons I loathed The Batman is that piss-poor imitation of that line that Conroy made iconic.

@Wiendish Fitch you were so much more eloquent than me about Conroy showing that Batman had a heart underneath the darkness. He was wasted—WASTED—in that shitty Crisis on Infinite Earths.

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Lantern7

Lantern7

I've seen Kevin at a few cons. Met him at NYCC 2015. Yeah, the guy stands alongside the live-action versions of Batman.

image.png.e239922f0e2f8d67237e5b12deda393c.png

I don't usually hit up celebs, and I don't usually share pics of myself . . . but I have to make an exception tonight.

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Tenshinhan

Tenshinhan

Well, this is a bit unexpected.  I don't think he had been sick for very long.  He was still doing interviews and making appearances and such.

Not really a huge fan of TAS or the DCAU, and I think that their take on Batman was overrated, but Kevin Conroy was great as Bruce Wayne/Batman.  Even when the writing was shit, Conroy could still sell it.  His performance is classic.  Definitely iconic.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

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(edited)
On 11/12/2022 at 7:37 AM, Tenshinhan said:

Well, this is a bit unexpected.  I don't think he had been sick for very long. 

According to the article posted, he had been sick for quite some time, but showed up for his fans anyway. That's the kind of man he was.

I, for one, don't think this show was overrated at all. It was the BEST iteration of Bats in animation. One I had been waiting for for YEARS. but to each their own.

I'm just shocked, yes, shocked, that I haven't seen anything from anyone except for Tara Strong, Mark Hamill, Loren Lester, Clancy Brown, Paul Dini, and Alan Burnett. A lot of retweets from Daly and Eisenberg from fan accounts.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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Tenshinhan

Tenshinhan

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It was the BEST iteration of Bats in animation.

I agree, but it's not like it ever had any serious competition.

The show is great, but I think most of that is due to the quality of animation and artwork, the writing, performances, and musical score.  Not so much their approach to the Batman characters and mythos.  Those aspects were decent, but not especially groundbreaking in my view.

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Athena

Athena

16 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

The show is great, but I think most of that is due to the quality of animation and artwork, the writing, performances, and musical score.  Not so much their approach to the Batman characters and mythos.  Those aspects were decent, but not especially groundbreaking in my view.

For some of us this was our first substantial introduction to Batman the character and mythos. I still like this one and DCAU the most in many ways and Kevin Conroy did have a lot to do with it. I tried getting into the comics, but they weren't for me. The movies are varying levels of bad to good. I have the most personal affinity with TAS and I think others here can relate to that.

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MagnusHex

MagnusHex

(edited)

This was just a nice little cold reading of The Dark Knight from Kevin Conroy I found:

Felt like it's a nice tribute to him, the greatest knight of 'em all.

For me, while TAS wasn't my first introduction to Batman (Batman (1989) was, but even then, I didn't really pay attention much to Batsy till Bale came along since I've always been a Spidey fan, growing up with Spider-Man TAS), it still felt like an important milestone in animation that struck a nice balance between mature storytelling and Saturday morning cartoon. It wasn't an adult sitcom like The Simpsons, but bravely and boldly stepped into pretty dark and mature subject matter unlike any cartoon before aired on an American children's network.

Sure, like any series, there were duds and misses like I've Got Batman in My Basement, but for the most part, it was a solid A+ animated series that revolutionalized what children's TV could do in terms of storytelling. If not for Batman: TAS, you wouldn't have the more complex cartoons like Gargoyles or Spider-Man: TAS, neither of which holds a candle to Batman: TAS. Let's not forget it preceded Hulk: TAS AND X-Men: TAS too (albeit a month for the latter), both of which also contained more mature storytelling for older kids. Batman: TAS was The Sopranos of children's cartoon.

All that said, Superman: TAS is a more consistent show though in terms of writing quality. 😋

Edited by MagnusHex
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