Your Honor - General Discussion

[Glade]

Wow, episodes six and seven have been really powerful.  I never expected Lee Delamere to return, or that this weird loose end from S1 (the death of Michael's wife/Adam's mother) would actually be solved in such a devastating way.  That alone justified bringing this show back.  Big Mo is becoming more and more isolated.  I hope Margo Martindale is back to meet her great grandson soon.

[Spartan Girl]

13 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Reply spoiler coded as I have already seen episode seven.

  Hide contents

There are a bunch of crooked cops and it is hard to keep them all straight but this seems to be the org chart:

Rudy, a detective, is the one who shot Eugene. Rudy is Charlie's go-to for corrupt cop stuff. For some dumb reason Charlie went to him when Robin asked about corrupt cops.

The henchman is Beckwith and we meet him in episode seven. He's the one who killed Robin and tries to kill Michael but is stopped by Nancy.

The Baxters have Lt. Cusask on their payroll. I don't think he's mixed up with the other two but he's just as crooked.

Apparently Nancy is the only honest cop in New Orleans.

 

I’m starting to think 

Spoiler

Charlie is shadier than we think. Either Charlie made a stupid mistake or he deliberately set Robin up.

The sight of Fia and the baby on his doorstep better light a fire under Michael’s ass. Time to help take down the Baxters NOW.

Of course if Jimmy wants to kill Gina first, that’s fine with me.

 

[aghst]

 

Eugene was shot while he was waiting in line to board the bus.  How is it that Rudy wasn't seen?  If he had to be able to see to shoot Eugene, Eugene and everyone else there would have seen him.

Now he goes and bleeds all over Lee's nice furniture.  She was a social worker last season?  How fortunate that Eugene finds his way there.  Then gets away at the hospital by yelling out his name when Rudy was closing in on him.

Big Mo is making enemies, maybe even some within her own gang, while Little Mo is still in the game?

Jimmy cuts a deal with the NY mob while Gina is demanding more blood!  Her papa was missing this episode, but he already told Jimmy to "sack up!" so he's served his purpose?

How does Beckwith know where Michael is?  He hasn't been driving since getting out of prison so the first time he takes Elizabeth's car, on his way to meet Nancy, Beckwith intercepts him?

Judges usually don't have this much excitement in their lives or come into contact with criminals outside the court room.  But Michael can't avoid tripping over there everywhere he steps.

Is this suppose to end with closure for Michael, how his wife was murdered and he already knows how Adam was murdered.  Somehow end up with his grandson in his life?

Edited February 27, 2023 by aghst

[Spartan Girl]

Gina is everything people thought Skyler White was and worse. I mean, geez, lady, instead of screaming how you want your child and grandchild back, maybe it’s time to take a long hard look at yourself and realize that Fia has pretty good reasons for being done with you?!

I’m interested in seeing whether Lee is going to encounter Michael again now that she’s back in the picture. And if Eugene is going to come face-to-face with Michael. He DID kill Adam, even though it was an accident, and both Michael and Lee know about his part in the murder of Eugene’s family. There’s a reckoning coming, that’s for sure.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Kirkydee]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:42 PM, aghst said:

 

Eugene was shot while he was waiting in line to board the bus.  How is it that Rudy wasn't seen?  If he had to be able to see to shoot Eugene, Eugene and everyone else there would have seen him.

Now he goes and bleeds all over Lee's nice furniture.  She was a social worker last season?  How fortunate that Eugene finds his way there.  Then gets away at the hospital by yelling out his name when Rudy was closing in on him.

Big Mo is making enemies, maybe even some within her own gang, while Little Mo is still in the game?

Jimmy cuts a deal with the NY mob while Gina is demanding more blood!  Her papa was missing this episode, but he already told Jimmy to "sack up!" so he's served his purpose?

How does Beckwith know where Michael is?  He hasn't been driving since getting out of prison so the first time he takes Elizabeth's car, on his way to meet Nancy, Beckwith intercepts him?

Judges usually don't have this much excitement in their lives or come into contact with criminals outside the court room.  But Michael can't avoid tripping over there everywhere he steps.

Is this suppose to end with closure for Michael, how his wife was murdered and he already knows how Adam was murdered.  Somehow end up with his grandson in his life?

Lee was never a social worker- always presented as a lawyer.  

I thought the same thing as the bus station.  NOBODY saw anything.  However in retrospect I can see how Rudy got away.  People are usually not paying attention to their surroundings.  Making sure they have their ticket, luggage, etc.  So Rudy walking up and getting out of there quickly is believable. What isn't believable is Rudy shooting Eugene in the shoulder at point blank range. And just did Rudy think he was gonna do in the hospital with everybody watching. Even without Eugene yelling out his name I can't forsee Rudy doing anything in the hospital.  

[Cosmocrush]

5 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

 

I thought the same thing as the bus station.  NOBODY saw anything.  However in retrospect I can see how Rudy got away.  People are usually not paying attention to their surroundings.  Making sure they have their ticket, luggage, etc.  So Rudy walking up and getting out of there quickly is believable. What isn't believable is Rudy shooting Eugene in the shoulder at point blank range. And just did Rudy think he was gonna do in the hospital with everybody watching. Even without Eugene yelling out his name I can't forsee Rudy doing anything in the hospital.  

Yeah storming into the hospital was dumb, not to mention he left there as well without being seen.  At the bus station  I told myself Rudy shot him from far away and ran and that's why he had to ask about Eugene's status.

[Msample]

Was Jimmy accusing his. Wife of having an affair with Frankie ?

[TV Diva Queen]

Such a magical proud mother moment for Gina when her son gets boosted up to family security and now he can kill whomever.  

I knew Fia was young but it hit me when she told the priest that she was just 17.  Yikes, she's a baby.

and @Msample I too think Jimmy was saying that Gina was fooling around with Frankie

I fear we won't ever see Big Mo get whats coming to her because there's just not enough episodes left. 

[MBayGal]

It's hard to take Fia as a 17-y-o.  The actress is, and looks, nearly 30.  Surely there were actresses in their late teens or early 20's who were qualified for this role.  Gotta wonder how she got it.  She is also on Yellowstone as the governor's assistant or something, where she looks the part. 

[Msample]

Don't know if it had any part in her getting the part, but the actress ( Lilli Kay ) is the daughter of one of the Yellowstone producers/directors, Stephen Kay. She does appear rather old as a 17 year old, LOL .

 

On Yellowstone, she appears with her real life stepmother, Piper Perabo which is a bit weird because they don't look that far apart in age. 

[aghst]

Apparently Cranston and the show runner have been doing Behind the Episode videos of a couple minutes.

Showtime doesn't post these in their app, like HBO does with their Inside the Episode for House of Dragons or The Last of Us or some of their other shows.

 

In any event, not much substance or insight in this one, like some of HBO Inside the Episode segments.

[Kiss my mutt]

When Fia showed up at the church lamenting to the priest about her family and not wanting her son growing in this environment, and feeling too young to deal with this, I thought she meant to give the baby to the priest to adopt out to another family far, far away so she could make her escape. 
I really hope Mo goes out in the most horrific way and the Mayor-wow was not expecting that. I’m glad Eugene was okay. I was so sad as well as pissed, the week before when I thought he had died. 

[Spartan Girl]

Spoiler

It’s about fucking time, Michael!

Also Gina finally owning up to pushing Jimmy to blowing up Kofi’s family making things worse. I still loathe her, but kudos.

I don’t know if Eugene insisting on going to trial is a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[LoveLeigh]

Spoiler

Why at the end did Big Mo get so mad at Janelle? I am all confused.

Question:

[aghst]

Is it even legal for Olivia to push a minor into testifying against her own family?

What is dumb is Olivia has to tell Fia about the crimes her family has committed, like Eugene's family being blown up was no accident and she shows Fia evidence.

So what evidence does Olivia think Fia has?  Is she going to make Fia go back to her family wearing a wire?

Guess it was just a dumb device to make Michael get back into trying to catch Jimmy.  But it shouldn't even take getting Jimmy on tape talking about his crimes.  It's not like he's subtle about the things he's done.

That evidence that Olivia cited, why isn't that enough to prosecute Jimmy, multiple murders for one?

Rosie Perez always has this shit-eating grin.  Guess that's suppose to cover over how manipulative and ambitious she is?  She's willing to put Michael and Olivia in danger just to make a big, career-advancing case?

Then you have two criminal bosses getting pissed off, so they're more likely to start more violence.  Big Mo gets ripped off by one of her own men, finds the ring gone, yells at her gf to whom she was going to propose.  

And Gina tells Jimmy that she blames her for Rocco's death and will never love him again.

Are we to believe these heartbreaks will make Big Mo and Jimmy bloodthirsty?

Big Mo has shielded Janelle from her criminal activities.  Did she think she could do that forever?  All the nice things she's been buying for Janelle has been with tainted money.  That wasn't a big secret nor would it remain one.

Jimmy still loves Gina, after the way she nags at him, egging him on to be more violent, denying him sex?  Realistically, he'd have mistresses on the side and Gina's resting bitch face is not the easiest thing to endure -- when she's not screaming at him or questioning his manhood that is.

Got to be some kind of happy ending at the end right?  Michael not only survives but he no longer has to fear for his life, he gets some measure of peace with Robin and Adam's murders.

Fia escapes her family, little Rocco is away from them, etc.

Not sure if Clay Davis stays out of jail though.  Sheeeet!

Edited March 6, 2023 by aghst

[Spartan Girl]

Is it wrong that I think Gina blaming Jimmy for Rocco’s death because he gave him a motorcycle is completely stupid? Yes I know grief is irrational, but accidents happen. When a person gets into a car crash you don’t blame the person who gave you the car.

Also Eugene insisting on a trial to tell “his” side of the story…what difference is it going to make. Yes, you wanted revenge for your family but you killed the wrong person, just like Carlo. He got the gun, he went into a public place and fired it—the fact that Adam accidentally got in the way of the bullet doesn’t make it any less his fault.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Cotypubby]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also Eugene insisting on a trial to tell “his” side of the story…what difference is it going to make. Yes, you wanted revenge for your family but you killed the wrong person, just like Carlo. He got the gun, he went into a public place and fired it—the fact that Adam accidentally got in the way of the bullet doesn’t make it any less his fault.

Exactly. Even if the jury were to believe that he would be justified in shooting Carlo, he ended up killing a completely different person. They aren’t going to find him innocent so taking the deal for 10 years will be way better than what he’ll get.

What was the point of Gina bringing the expensive liquor to the club opening? I was expecting that to actually lead to something happening…

Edited March 6, 2023 by Cotypubby

[aghst]

I think the confrontation between Gina and Big Mo was nothing.

Gina is frustrated that Jimmy won't go to war so she wanted to stare her down or something?

But Jimmy and Big Mo suffered setbacks, heartbreaks, this episode so they may not care anymore and say screw it, kill everyone.

[Cosmocrush]

16 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

What was the point of Gina bringing the expensive liquor to the club opening? I was expecting that to actually lead to something happening…

Yeah, I totally thought it was poisoned; even moreso when Gina refused a sip of the stuff, although I probably wouldn't drink straight out of the bottle after Big Mo either. 

[dwmarch]

17 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

What was the point of Gina bringing the expensive liquor to the club opening? I was expecting that to actually lead to something happening…

Posturing, mostly. In bringing the bottle of expensive liquor Gina is saying a few things:

• Look what a good neighbor I am bringing you this gift (when I could have brought trouble instead)
• Look how rich I am, I can basically throw this away
• Yes it might be poisoned, are you brave enough to find out?

She also got that racist burn in there about what a nice change it must be from malt liquor which simultaneously insulted and impressed Big Mo. So in coming over there and delivering it the way she did, she's also saying she's not afraid to come into Big Mo's place and insult her right to her face. Gina thinks it is important to do this but I think Jimmy is more gangsta, posting extra guards but otherwise ignoring the Desire crew.

On 3/5/2023 at 11:23 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Is it wrong that I think Gina blaming Jimmy for Rocco’s death because he gave him a motorcycle is completely stupid?

Pretty much. If she wants to play that game, we can say it's Gina's fault for giving birth to Rocco in the first place.

[Spartan Girl]

As unethical as Olivia using Fia to get to the Baxters may be, she did have a point: if Fia is aware of all the terrible things they’ve done, yet doesn’t do anything about than she really isn’t any different than them.

The same, of course, can be said for Michael.

[TV Diva Queen]

16 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Posturing, mostly. In bringing the bottle of expensive liquor Gina is saying a few things:

• Look what a good neighbor I am bringing you this gift (when I could have brought trouble instead)
• Look how rich I am, I can basically throw this away
• Yes it might be poisoned, are you brave enough to find out?

She also got that racist burn in there about what a nice change it must be from malt liquor which simultaneously insulted and impressed Big Mo. So in coming over there and delivering it the way she did, she's also saying she's not afraid to come into Big Mo's place and insult her right to her face. Gina thinks it is important to do this but I think Jimmy is more gangsta, posting extra guards but otherwise ignoring the Desire crew.

Pretty much. If she wants to play that game, we can say it's Gina's fault for giving birth to Rocco in the first place.

Perfect post.   I feel you got a little G in you too.  LOL  xo

[realityplease]

Just saw a preview for an upcoming Perry Mason & spotted Hope Davis (who plays Gina in Your Honor) in a blondish hair-do.  She looks so much better!

Here, although she's a good actress, her dark wig is so off-putting to me because it makes her resemble a sister of Morticia.  We get it - she's Italian, she makes cannoli, she's a control-freak mother & a bad-ass, but does she really need to wear that awful dark wig in order to to sell that package?

Edited March 10, 2023 by realityplease

[LoveLeigh]

This doesn't even make any sense. If nobody knows all about Michael's lies to protect Adam and that Coffey took the fall for it and was murdered by Carlo, why do they think he even went to jail? Do they all still think Coffey drove the car that killed Adam? And Fia doesn't even know? Huh? 

Edited March 10, 2023 by LoveLeigh

[Spartan Girl]

Spoiler

I don’t know who is dumber: the prosecutor or Lee.

Lee, it actually works BETTER for Eugene if Michael tells the truth, because then you can expose everything he did that led up to the shooting while cross examining him. I doubt the jury will still see Adam as an innocent murder victim when they realize he pretty much caused everything, and Eugene becomes more sympathetic. Then you’ll finally have justice for Kofi and his family.

But no, let’s go with pressuring Michael to lie because that’s worked so well up til now. SMH 

 

[aghst]

Spoiler

Big Mo and Little Mo reunited but Big Mo loses J.  At this point they seem to be wrapping up the Desire characters, not so much set up some big war.

Jimmy has held the gun to Michael's head twice, including earlier this season.  Michael only remembers the time when they were at the marina in season 1.

So now he offers Michael a job to be his right hand?  Did he explain what happened to his previous right hand?  He claims he is going legit with the Baxter District, says "nobody is holding a gun to your head" about his job offer.

Michael knows Jimmy will have Carlo do the dirty work.

Fia drops the dime on Olivia trying to flip her.  That makes Jimmy give up the Baxter District and presumably ends his deal with the Calabris, who were going to import drugs into New Orleans through Jimmy's ports.

Just like that?

He can't go legit anymore so go back to crime, even though he now knows the US Attorney's office is investigating him?

But Fia telling Jimmy may put Michael in danger, since he offered to help incriminate Jimmy if Olivia stopped pressuring Fia.

Gina lies through her teeth on the witness stand.  Prosecution couldn't find a better witness?  Apparently not, because he wants to call Michael to the stand.  I thought Michael just arrived to see Adam get shot, not necessarily witness the shooter.

 

You know the way Showtime is going, I wouldn't put it past them to renew this series, even though they said this would be the final season.  I thought Cranston said this would be it.  But Showtime is desperate for shows people will watch and they're trying to milk Billions and Dexter to death because they have trouble getting new shows attract viewers.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by aghst

[Spartan Girl]

One more thing

Spoiler

While Lee is right to chew out Michael for being a hypocrite, the hypocrisy goes both ways. Eugene is guilty, and she's trying to get him off--granted, he tied her hands by refusing to plead out, but trying to make it out that he's being framed is a lie and she knows it. 

Does Fia have her own agenda in tipping off Jimmy? She couldn't have bought his lie about the Jones family. If she knew her own mother was lying, why would she doubt he'd lie to her too?

 

[dwmarch]

Spoiler

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

While Lee is right to chew out Michael for being a hypocrite, the hypocrisy goes both ways. Eugene is guilty, and she's trying to get him off--granted, he tied her hands by refusing to plead out, but trying to make it out that he's being framed is a lie and she knows it. 

For that matter, Lee is the one who basically talked Eugene into committing murder in the first place! She told him to "take what he could get" after Carlo was acquitted and that was what he came up with. So Lee, are you going to tell the jury your part in all of this?

I loved Michael's social engineering on Carlo. He says things that are not quite correct about what is going on, knowing Carlo will boast about what is really happening. Jimmy is a smooth liar and we saw that earlier in the season with his forgiveness speech to Michael. But Carlo did not inherit this skill nor anything approaching discretion.

Don't you just hate it when you are trying to bring down not one but several crime families in one fell swoop by using a Byzantine plot involving unwilling informants and the informants go and fuck it up for you? So hard to frame a guilty man these days!

 

[AntFTW]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:10 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Eugene is guilty, and she's trying to get him off--granted, he tied her hands by refusing to plead out, but trying to make it out that he's being framed is a lie and she knows it. 

I didn't interpret Lee's statements as saying Eugene was framed but rather saying that everything they're going to hear and everything they're being shown comes from a poisoned and corrupt law enforcement (which is true) so you shouldn't trust their narrative nor their evidence; that everything they've gathered "sits on a throne of lies" so their entire case is shaky.

That's the only angle she has because Eugene did what they're accusing of him... but he has a huge and overwhelming stack of mitigating circumstances.

Edited March 13, 2023 by AntFTW

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I didn't interpret Lee's statements as saying Eugene was framed but rather saying that everything they're going to hear and everything they're being shown comes from a poisoned and corrupt law enforcement (which is true) so you shouldn't trust their narrative nor their evidence; that everything they've gathered "sits on a throne of lies" so their entire case is shaky.

That's the only angle she has because Eugene did what they're accusing of him... but he has a huge and overwhelming stack of mitigating circumstances.

Eugene doesn’t deserve a life sentence, but he doesn’t deserve to walk either.

Again, I don’t get why Lee tried to pressure Michael to lie instead of telling the whole truth, because the latter works more in Eugene’s favor. But I think it’s all about to come out anyway.

Also don’t get why Fia would believe Jimmy’s lie about the Jones family AND tip him off about the family. Unless Olivia was right and she’s not much different from her family than she’d like to believe,

Edited March 13, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[AntFTW]

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Eugene doesn’t deserve a life sentence, but he doesn’t deserve to walk either.

Sure, but Lee's hands are tied. Eugene had the option of taking some jail time, but Eugene wanted to go to trial. She is his advocate. She is supposed to present the best defense she can for him. The "best defense" doesn't include trying to get Michael to lie though.

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Again, I don’t get why Lee tried to pressure Michael to lie instead of telling the whole truth, because the latter works more in Eugene’s favor. But I think it’s all about to come out anyway.

As a viewer knowing the entire story, I think she has a winning hand here but I don't know if Lee -as a character with a certain perspective on the events- knows that entirely. I don't really remember what Lee knows from season 1. I may have to do a recap there. Eugene is not and will not be getting a fair trial in a corrupt system (in theory at least), and that's the picture Lee has to create for the jury; that this corrupt system failed Eugene and has unjustifiably put Eugene in this predicament today; that this corrupt system killed Eugene's entire family, uprooted his life, and put that gun in his hand; and now, this corrupt system is pretending to give Eugene the fair trial that he is entitled to.  Again, as a viewer knowing the entire story, that is not entirely wrong.

Michael telling the truth possibly helps Eugene. However, I'm not sure which part of the story that Lee wants Michael to lie about. All of it or some of it? If some of it, which part? Which part of Michael's participation in his whole thing hurts Eugene?

The actual true story could paint a picture of Eugene's motive, or it could show that Eugene was in an emotional state that is a mitigating factor. That depends on how good of a lawyer Lee is, and her ability to move the focus away from Eugene to her underlying argument of a corrupt system being the blame for Adam's death rather than Eugene.

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also don’t get why Fia would believe Jimmy’s lie about the Jones family AND tip him off about the family. Unless Olivia was right and she’s not much different from he4 family than she’d like to believe,

I didn't understand that either. Is it just the lying she's worried about? or is it the crime?

Edited March 13, 2023 by AntFTW

[LoveLeigh]

Spoiler

I don't even get the ending... Michael went back to jail? So why did Gina and Carlo get away with their crimes? And after all that, Fia just like that hands the baby over? BTW, I cracked up laughing when Jimmy was shot.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by LoveLeigh

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

  Hide contents

I don't even get the ending... Michael went back to jail? So why did Gin and Carlo get away with their crimes? And after all that, Fia just like that hands the baby over? BTW, I cracked up laughing when Jimmy was shot.

 

Spoiler

Granted, Michael deserved consequences but so did everyone else. I’m so pissed that Gina got away with EVERYTHING except for losing Fia and her grandchild but I don’t know if she really cares now that she has power so it doesn’t feel like much of a punishment.

I really hope Fia gave up Rocco more because she thought he’d be better off with another family and not just because she found out the truth about Adam. Abandoning your child because of what the father did…I want want to judge but JFC it’s not the baby’s fault.

Eugene is free, but so what? His life is still ruined. His family’s still dead and the Baxters don’t really face judgement, even if Jimmy is dead.

Well, it’s an ending.

 

[LoveLeigh]

The flaw in this season is that they all acted like Adam killed Rocco deliberately and hence they act appalled. It was an accident... the shocking part was all the lies and cover up to protect Adam. 

If it was presented as an accident from the beginning... all of the rest could have been possibly avoided. 

Spoiler

And why did Fia give up her baby? Because she was disgusted with Adam? Or because she wanted the baby away from her criminal family? She is a nut. And Carlo gets away with murder? And Michael walks back into prison? I hated the ending. But I laughed when Jimmy was shot. That was hilarious....

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by LoveLeigh

[Spartan Girl]

28 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

The flaw in this season is that they all acted like Adam killed Rocco deliberately and hence they act appalled. It was an accident... the shocking part was all the lies and cover up to protect Adam. 

If it was presented as an accident from the beginning... all of the rest could have been possibly avoided. 

Not really. Jimmy confided to his bodyguard that he still would have killed Adam if he’d known it was an accident. But yeah, the Jones would still be alive and Michael would have kept his integrity.

Spoiler

I can’t really blame Fia for being mad that Adam hooked up with her knowing full well he killed her brother. That’s worse than Dear Evan Hansen.

 

[Andre LaPlume]

Just a mess.   Why was Michael in jail to begin with?   

[LoveLeigh]

4 minutes ago, Andre LaPlume said:

Just a mess.   Why was Michael in jail to begin with?   

They never answered that. Was it for fixing Carlos's trial? Nobody wondered why he would do that? And it never came out that he fixed the trial to protect Adam? This show is filled with plot holes and stupidity. And: 

Spoiler

Fia give sup her baby to give him a better family or because she hated Adam who is the father of the baby? Fia is an idiot.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by LoveLeigh

[Cosmocrush]

15 minutes ago, Andre LaPlume said:

Just a mess.   Why was Michael in jail to begin with?   

Michael went to prison because in his grief after Adam died, he confessed to throwing the Koffi case (thus freeing Carlo) to protect Adam.   He also involved his good buddy the now Mayor Figgaro as the person who arranged to have Adam's car stolen. 

[aghst]

could have sworn I read that Cranston said this would be the final season.

But it says Season Finale in the Showtime app.  Maybe Cranston doesn't plan to do more seasons.

No way they continue without him, he's the big name in the cast.

They did wrap up a lot of things.  Olivia is going to try to get Conti to implicate Gina and Michael awoke.  Big Mo expands her empire so they could continue some of these story lines.  

Gina doesn't care if Big Mo sells fentanyl all over the French Quarter, as long as it's not on her street.  How about the next street over?  She wanted Jimmy dead and her father imprisoned because of her father's sexism and now she's boss.

 

Adam was stupid to get close to Fia.  That's the incredible thing, of all the girls he could have fallen for, he chooses the sister of the guy whom he killed, which fact he's suppose to hide?

So they find a way to save Eugene but honestly he's a relatively minor character, at least in the first season.  He's also not good at evading being found out, like Adam was.

Does Michael have relative peace of mind?  He found out how his wife died and unburdened himself of the cover up plot, though I don't think Clay Davis is in trouble -- and for him to be in the courtroom is odd for a mayor who supposedly doesn't have any ties to this case or so he'd like to claim.

Do survivors of victims who died tragically or due to foul play get more peace or relief from finding out how their loved ones were murdered?  

They've lost them either way so this subplot about how his wife died and then this bigger plot about the guy who shot Adam, it may give Michael some closure but does it remove or lessen his grief?

I think season 1 finale could have served as the series finale.  Michael did all this, compromised his principles, to keep Adam safe, but it was all in vain.  A conclusion about one example of the absurdity of life.

I'm glad I watched this season, as flawed as both seasons were.  Acting was good, the writing, maybe the whole plot about Adam and Fia was in the Israel original so they stuck to it, no matter how dumb it is.

They really tried to make this role as similar to Walter White for Cranston.  Both characters start out as good men but are drawn deeper and deeper by circumstances into committing criminal acts and abandoning his principles and he and his family are under extreme threat by malevolent forces.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by aghst

[dwmarch]

Well, overall I thought season 2 was much better than season 1. If this is where the story ends so be it but I would not mind a season 3 if we have the same showrunner.

Before I forget, I have to call out Gina's fashions. That belted leather skirt was awesome. Great look for her. Makes her look like someone who is in charge and someone you don't want to mess with. That long leather coat she had on at the end though? What in the actual fuck? Where did she even get that? She stashed that in her closet until her husband had been shot and her father had been thrown in jail. Now while I certainly believe any person is entitled to their own sense of style and everyone is entitled to make mistakes, those men would not have let her be seen in public wearing that.

Two thoughts on Carmine being in jail. First, I don't think he's the kind of mobster that is slowed down at all by incarceration. He will have people who still answer to him and Gina is foolish to forget that although I guess her impulsivity is an established character trait. Second, Olivia showing up at his jail cell door? I'm pretty sure I already know what he's going to say to you but if you really need him to spell it out, I'm sure he'll be happy to.

I like the courtroom scenes in this episode. I am not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night but sometimes it is easy to tell when a show isn't really trying too hard on the legal stuff. I didn't get that sense here. Although, having said that, the judge did make a lot of noise about Lee not being able to get any other story out of Michael than exactly what he saw on that one night and nothing more. But once Michael starts talking of his own accord, the judge just lets him keep talking.

There were some great emotional moments from Fia in this episode. I think she gave the baby up to keep him away from her family and to keep him away from Michael. But Fia, don't forget, you're the one who wouldn't leave Michael alone. He made it pretty clear that he didn't want you around and you kept coming back.

Edited March 20, 2023 by dwmarch
Removed spoiler tag after airdate

[AntFTW]

Wow! Gina is a cold bitch!

[Glade]

I'm so happy for Eugene, it was beyond heart-breaking seeing him recount the dire poverty his family lived in in court, and then the moment he realized the gas had been turned off...was incredible. Fuck that prosecutor, he's going to get a better start in life now, and that's wonderful, though I wish he could keep some line open to Lee. Fia found out the truth and has likewise abandoned her family and the single parenthood which would make her dependent on them. It's not clear if Michael is finishing his tax evasion sentence or a new one, but given his MIL breaking down in tears when he left, I take it's the latter, they can't try him for throwing the case or killing boat guy, but for covering for Adam, yes. Hopefully the Baxter's new era will be very, very short now that there are so many potential witnesses. I would watch more seasons, but this was really powerful and satisfying in itself.

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

There were some great emotional moments from Fia in this episode. I think she gave the baby up to keep him away from her family and to keep him away from Michael. But Fia, don't forget, you're the one who wouldn't leave Michael alone. He made it pretty clear that he didn't want you around and you kept coming back.

Spoiler

At first I thought it was completely unfair to Elizabeth. She had nothing to do with it and didn’t deserve to be cut off from her great grandchild. But then again, Fia knows what her parents are capable of to get what they want and had she left Rocco with her, it would have endangered her. Michael already had a target on his back from testifying. So in Elizabeth’s case, it was being cruel to be kind. Maybe even the same for Michael: even if Fia could forgive him (and if he ever got out of jail), the Baxters would never let him have Rocco.

I liked that Michael and Eugene apologized to each other. If I had been Eugene, I wouldn’t be so forgiving, but Eugene still remembered that Michael tried to help his mother. And his family’s murder is still completely on the Baxters: they had already killed Kofi, blowing up the house was just overkill of the cruelest kind.

I still don’t know if Eugene is going to have a better life in witness protection. His family’s and Adams deaths are going to haunt him forever. No amount of therapy can erase that. But he’ll be safe and that’s what matters.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[AntFTW]

I read that season 2 will be the final season of the show, but I feel like this ending leaves the door open for a 3rd season.

[Madison59]

I found the ending confusing and need clarity.  Why is Michael walking back into prison on his own accord, dropped off and going through the gates with no police accompanying him?  In the end, he did bring down Jimmy Baxter and received early release by the federal government.  Loved it when Jimmy opened his eyes.  Does this imply a season 4?  Adam was the result of Rocco dying however it was an accident.  That fact didn't seem to come into play after the first season. Brilliant the way Gina set up her dad and Jimmy, however let's face it, wouldn't there have been questioning by the police as to where she was when she heard the shots, didn't she investigate, go to her husband, etc?  IMO Fia made the best choice for her son, not wanting him to grow up and know about his familial background. Michael walking into prison confuses me the most. 

[AntFTW]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:04 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Eugene is free, but so what? His life is still ruined.

Ruined and free is better than ruined and in prison.

23 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

If it was presented as an accident from the beginning... all of the rest could have been possibly avoided. 

23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Not really. Jimmy confided to his bodyguard that he still would have killed Adam if he’d known it was an accident. But yeah, the Jones would still be alive and Michael would have kept his integrity.

I'm thinking the Jones family would still be dead and Michael would not have kept his integrity. Nothing would have changed. Michael knew it was an accident, and Micheal thought Jimmy would still kill Adam regardless, even if Jimmy knew it was an accident. Michael still would have taken the measures that he took. He would have still done whatever it took to get the stench off of Adam. He would have still tried to get rid of the car, which involves Kofi Jones and trial rigging, Kofi dying, the Joneses dying, Eugene trying to avenge his family... and so on.

Michael didn't intend for Kofi Jones to be involved, but Kofi just happened to be the person who received the call. Once Kofi got caught with the car, the Baxters didn't waste any time getting to him. The pivotal moment is when Kofi got caught with the car. Michael wasn't going to come out and say it was Adam, because he thought Adam would be killed if he admitted that.

Edited March 18, 2023 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:26 AM, dwmarch said:

Two thoughts on Carmine being in jail. First, I don't think he's the kind of mobster that is slowed down at all by incarceration. He will have people who still answer to him and Gina is foolish to forget that although I guess her impulsivity is an established character trait. Second, Olivia showing up at his jail cell door? I'm pretty sure I already know what he's going to say to you but if you really need him to spell it out, I'm sure he'll be happy to.

I didn't even realize Carmine was in jail. I had to rewatch. That plugs in the hole for me because Gina called 911 when Jimmy was shot, and I'm sure they asked for surveillance footage which will show Carmine shooting Jimmy. I was asking myself how exactly was Gina going to cover for Carmine, and it turns out she isn't covering for him. She's just killing two birds with one stone, getting both her father and Jimmy out of the way.

Carmine is an old school mobster. He is not snitching for any reason.

Big Mo can read Gina like a book. Big Mo knows Gina is impulsive and vengeful.

Edited March 20, 2023 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

Also, Michael's testimony still wasn't entirely truthful because Kofi Jones didn't steal the car. Michael left the keys for him to take it.

Edited March 20, 2023 by AntFTW

[MBayGal]

 Bad Bitches rule in NO, at least for the moment.  Big Mo manipulates Gina into taking down Jimmy. Gina sets up her father to kill her husband, then reports him. But Jimmy isn't dead, and who knows what Carmine will do, knowing his daughter set him up? I predict Big Mo will having an affair with Gina very soon.  However, we will not be watching if there is a 3rd season, this ending with Eugene freed from jail in that fashion and going into witness protection, and Michael strolling into prison, driven there by Fia no less, was absurd!  I could say more, but I'm going to bed.

[heatherchandler]

On 3/17/2023 at 7:04 AM, Spartan Girl said:

  Hide contents

 

Eugene is free, but so what? His life is still ruined. His family’s still dead and the Baxters don’t really face judgement, even if Jimmy is dead.

Well, it’s an ending.

 

Spoiler

But he opened his eyes!