S01.E06: Episode 6

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

As Claire’s world begins to crumble, an uncertain Eric is pressed to reveal intimate details of his relationship.

Airs December 1st.

[mamadrama]

When Claire's husband came into the bedroom to talk to her I was struck by how gray everything was: the walls, the bedding, the cushions on the window seat, her top... I've been so caught up in the story that sometimes I forget how good the set and cinematography are.

[Empress1]

Eric apologizing to Claire made me so sad. You can see the way this is going to mess him up, and the fact that Claire was only concerned that her teaching career is over was so gross.

[Madding crowd]

I’m still wishing the episodes were longer. I feel like we just get to an important moment and it ends before we can really see it. I do wonder what the age of consent is in that state because Claire couldn’t be arrested if it is 16 or 17. Of course she will and should lose her job. I do feel sorry for Eric and how this will change the other relationships in his life.

[3girlsforus]

42 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I’m still wishing the episodes were longer. I feel like we just get to an important moment and it ends before we can really see it. I do wonder what the age of consent is in that state because Claire couldn’t be arrested if it is 16 or 17. Of course she will and should lose her job. I do feel sorry for Eric and how this will change the other relationships in his life.

I checked on the age of consent in Texas. The age of consent is 17 so by that definition it wasn’t an illegal relationship. However, in Texas, there is a special caveat that sex between an employee of a school and a student is statutory rape regardless of the age of a student. So under that law it doesn’t matter that he was of legal age or even what that legal age is. It’s illegal.  

Edited December 1, 2020 by 3girlsforus

[Madding crowd]

I certainly wasn’t saying it was ok. I was a teacher of many years myself. My concern would be what would be best for the student and to remove the teacher from access. 

[3girlsforus]

15 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I certainly wasn’t saying it was ok. I was a teacher of many years myself. My concern would be what would be best for the student and to remove the teacher from access. 

No of course not. I didn’t think you meant it was ok. I just meant that because of the laws in Texas it’s a crime even though he was of the age of consent. In my state there isn’t a special caveat for the school employee/student relationship. So if the student was of the age of consent the teacher could (and of course should) be fired and never hired again anywhere but she couldn’t be prosecuted as a child sexual predator. In Texas, Claire could be prosecuted even though Eric was the age of consent. But it doesn’t need to be against the law to fire her butt. And they should fire her butt. 

[Lacy4u]

After reading the Public Service Announcement at the end of the first episode, am I the only one who wondered if they're suggesting that if a high school student wants to learn how to be groomed by a teacher or needs help  hooking up with their teacher for them to contact that website? I mean it's so vague and the name of the site doesn't immediately seem like it's a website providing assistance for students that have been approached by teachers or had relationships with teachers. It states:

"if you or someone you know needs support, know you are not alone. help is available. please visit www.a-teacher-reaources.com for more information". 

This is exactly what is shown, lower cases letters and all.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, Eric's rich meathead friend actually hit the nail right on the head when Eric's friends were talking to him about Claire, after he did the obligatory "your gonna be such a legend at school" bit. She's a teacher sleeping with a high schooler, she clearly has a lot of issues. I would say that I cant believe that she still went off with Eric to sleep with him again, even after admitting to the affair to her husband, her husband being open to forgiving her, and being busted at school, but I totally can. Even as her life is falling apart to the point where even she can see it, she is still holding onto this fantasy of being young and wanted by this kid. I hated that when she told Eric that she "gave up everything for him" and he was upset and guilty, what a horrid self centered sack of crap. She only cares about how this affects her and not how much this is going to hurt Eric. 

Its interesting that they had Eric be eighteen, even if, as others have said, in the state of Texas any sexual relationships between teachers and students is automatically statutory rape. Claire's brother said that it might not be a legal issue, so I am not sure where they will go with this legally, but they seem to be focusing more on emotional maturity instead of legal maturity, as well as power dynamics. Even if Eric is legally an adult, he is still emotionally very young, getting really attached to Claire in a short period of time despite the obviously icky nature of the relationship, saying how he loves her no matter how self centered she acts, feeling guilty about Claire getting in trouble, even his body language this week seemed really young and uncomfortable throughout, especially when he was talking to the people from the school and at the end, he looked like he was trying to make himself look as small as possible, its probably as young as he has ever looked. Its so sad, this is going to really mess him up in future relationships moving forward, no matter what happens to Claire. The power dynamic is so unbalanced, its clear that Claire is still calling the shots, no matter what Eric says, until the end of this episode when he finally left her behind at the hotel to go home. Even in the hotel she was guilt tripping him (like this is HIS fault!) then pulled him back in for more sex when he was upset and pulling away, its just such an unhealthy dynamic. 

I am really glad that Eric at least went back to his mom at the end, and that her teacher friend reported her apparently right away. I was surprised at how well her husband seemed to take it, I don't know if the seriousness has really set in yet. Even if there aren't legal consequences beyond losing her job (which she will do and should) and maybe getting more or less blacklisted from teaching in Texas, this isn't "just" an affair with some guy, she had a deeply creepy relationship with her teenage student, that's way worse than just cheating with some random guy. 

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, Eric's rich meathead friend actually hit the nail right on the head when Eric's friends were talking to him about Claire, after he did the obligatory "your gonna be such a legend at school" bit. She's a teacher sleeping with a high schooler, she clearly has a lot of issues. I would say that I cant believe that she still went off with Eric to sleep with him again, even after admitting to the affair to her husband, her husband being open to forgiving her, and being busted at school, but I totally can. Even as her life is falling apart to the point where even she can see it, she is still holding onto this fantasy of being young and wanted by this kid. I hated that when she told Eric that she "gave up everything for him" and he was upset and guilty, what a horrid self centered sack of crap. She only cares about how this affects her and not how much this is going to hurt Eric. 

Its interesting that they had Eric be eighteen, even if, as others have said, in the state of Texas any sexual relationships between teachers and students is automatically statutory rape. Claire's brother said that it might not be a legal issue, so I am not sure where they will go with this legally, but they seem to be focusing more on emotional maturity instead of legal maturity, as well as power dynamics. Even if Eric is legally an adult, he is still emotionally very young, getting really attached to Claire in a short period of time despite the obviously icky nature of the relationship, saying how he loves her no matter how self centered she acts, feeling guilty about Claire getting in trouble, even his body language this week seemed really young and uncomfortable throughout, especially when he was talking to the people from the school and at the end, he looked like he was trying to make himself look as small as possible, its probably as young as he has ever looked. Its so sad, this is going to really mess him up in future relationships moving forward, no matter what happens to Claire. The power dynamic is so unbalanced, its clear that Claire is still calling the shots, no matter what Eric says, until the end of this episode when he finally left her behind at the hotel to go home. Even in the hotel she was guilt tripping him (like this is HIS fault!) then pulled him back in for more sex when he was upset and pulling away, its just such an unhealthy dynamic. 

I am really glad that Eric at least went back to his mom at the end, and that her teacher friend reported her apparently right away. I was surprised at how well her husband seemed to take it, I don't know if the seriousness has really set in yet. Even if there aren't legal consequences beyond losing her job (which she will do and should) and maybe getting more or less blacklisted from teaching in Texas, this isn't "just" an affair with some guy, she had a deeply creepy relationship with her teenage student, that's way worse than just cheating with some random guy. 

If you remember Mary Kay Letourneau, she got a sweetheart of a deal and avoided jail time. And it’s not like there was a question of consent. He was 12 or 13 or something nasty like that. But the second she got out of court she was off with him again. Then she ended up doing 7+ years. The same destructive issues that lead her to the inappropriate relationship in the first place led her to continue with the same behavior even when it was even more dangerous from a ‘repercussions” perspective. So I think it’s very expected that she would run off and have sex with Eric again. So yea, I can believe it too. It’s awful, but I can believe it.

As far as the legal repercussions I’m not sure the rules here so I’m going to put this in a spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Based on the description of the upcoming episodes that say ‘Claire attempts to restart her life’ it looks like they are going to avoid legal ramifications. I don’t know if they will go with the ‘he was the age of consent and ignore that in Texas that doesn’t matter’ or some other way around it. Or maybe a  time jump after she’s served some time. But it does look like we will get to see the ‘after” with Claire whether or not she goes to jail. 

 

[Empress1]

37 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

If you remember Mary Kay Letourneau, she got a sweetheart of a deal and avoided jail time. And it’s not like there was a question of consent. He was 12 or 13 or something nasty like that. But the second she got out of court she was off with him again. Then she ended up doing 7+ years. The same destructive issues that lead her to the inappropriate relationship in the first place led her to continue with the same behavior even when it was even more dangerous from a ‘repercussions” perspective. So I think it’s very expected that she would run off and have sex with Eric again. So yea, I can believe it too. It’s awful, but I can believe it.

As far as the legal repercussions I’m not sure the rules here so I’m going to put this in a spoiler tag:

  Hide contents

Based on the description of the upcoming episodes that say ‘Claire attempts to restart her life’ it looks like they are going to avoid legal ramifications. I don’t know if they will go with the ‘he was the age of consent and ignore that in Texas that doesn’t matter’ or some other way around it. Or maybe a  time jump after she’s served some time. But it does look like we will get to see the ‘after” with Claire whether or not she goes to jail. 

 

Mary Kay Letourneau was monstrous and it was so, so SO fucked up of the media to portray them as some great love story. All hugged up on the cover of People. Ugh.

Re: the spoiler, I don't think it is a spoiler because I've read in spoiler-free reviews of the show that at some point the show moves forward in time. I also think there have been previews where Eric tells Claire how much this messed him up and he "was just a kid," so I think they move forward in time, don't speak for however long, and then meet up later for some reason. I would guess by that time (I assume years in the future), whatever legal consequences she might face would be over. (She also might not face as harsh legal consequences given that she's white, middle-class, and has a brother in law enforcement.)

[circumvent]

17 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I checked on the age of consent in Texas. The age of consent is 17 so by that definition it wasn’t an illegal relationship. However, in Texas, there is a special caveat that sex between an employee of a school and a student is statutory rape regardless of the age of a student. So under that law it doesn’t matter that he was of legal age or even what that legal age is. It’s illegal.  

That's interesting, how something becomes statutory rape. I don't really have an opinion on it, would have to think more about this but my inclination is to think that this is too much criminalization, generalizations.

I was 17-18 when I had a relationship with a teacher in my school. He had been my teacher the year before. It wasn't even sexual then, but we did go out for about 7 months. He wasn't grooming me, we remained friends and met again when I was 22, restarted our relationship and this time it was sexual. 

In my opinion, the show is generally doing a good job. It is not always obvious that Claire is grooming Eric, but at times it does show Eric as too immature, therefore a good subject to grooming. Claire should have known better, so I hope the next episodes don't paint her as a complete villain, going after other students. In the first episodes I thought her marriage was in trouble but I don't want this to be the reason for her lack of judgement either. Am I expecting too much? 

[Chaos Theory]

There are certain “conditions” by law where you can get into a lot of trouble for having sex.   It’s considered an undo use of power.   It’s why you can get fired or relocated for having sex with an underling at a lot of offices these days even if both parties are of age.   It is a sex crime if you are a guard at a prison who gets caught having sex with an inmate.   Even if the inmate is male and older then you are.   You are still the one who gets in trouble.   The same for a doctor having sex with a patient.    It doesn’t matter if it’s consentual.  I think it even applies in colleges.   A professor can’t have sex with one of his/her students regardless of age.    It’s not an equal relationship.    It’s considered highly predatory.

[SoWindsor]

Where was Claire at the end? The school or police station?

[yourdreamer]

3 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

Where was Claire at the end? The school or police station?

School. Probably enjoying it for the last time. 

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

Where was Claire at the end? The school or police station?

It was a police station. You can see a little bit of the sign in the screen

[circumvent]

22 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

There are certain “conditions” by law where you can get into a lot of trouble for having sex.   It’s considered an undo use of power.   It’s why you can get fired or relocated for having sex with an underling at a lot of offices these days even if both parties are of age.   It is a sex crime if you are a guard at a prison who gets caught having sex with an inmate.   Even if the inmate is male and older then you are.   You are still the one who gets in trouble.   The same for a doctor having sex with a patient.    It doesn’t matter if it’s consentual.  I think it even applies in colleges.   A professor can’t have sex with one of his/her students regardless of age.    It’s not an equal relationship.    It’s considered highly predatory.

I get the power dynamics, I just don't really understand how it becomes rape. Rape is about power but there are many consensual sex that are also based on power, just not in those situations that you described. It is a fine line and generalizations muddle the things a little bit. Ideally, it would be looked at case by case. The show does portray Claire as a predator, but it is subtle. 

I think I am having trouble with this kind of relationship being called statutory rape, considering the ramifications  - sexual predator list, inability to work certain jobs. Again, I do think Claire was preying on Eric, but there are cases where it is not about that, and the consequences not proportional to the "crime".

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

I get the power dynamics, I just don't really understand how it becomes rape. Rape is about power but there are many consensual sex that are also based on power, just not in those situations that you described. It is a fine line and generalizations muddle the things a little bit. Ideally, it would be looked at case by case. The show does portray Claire as a predator, but it is subtle. 

I think I am having trouble with this kind of relationship being called statutory rape, considering the ramifications  - sexual predator list, inability to work certain jobs. Again, I do think Claire was preying on Eric, but there are cases where it is not about that, and the consequences not proportional to the "crime".

She shouldn’t be able to work as a teacher again. I’m sure she’ll find something else.

[hula-la]

5 hours ago, circumvent said:

I get the power dynamics, I just don't really understand how it becomes rape. Rape is about power but there are many consensual sex that are also based on power, just not in those situations that you described. It is a fine line and generalizations muddle the things a little bit. Ideally, it would be looked at case by case. The show does portray Claire as a predator, but it is subtle. 

I think I am having trouble with this kind of relationship being called statutory rape, considering the ramifications  - sexual predator list, inability to work certain jobs. Again, I do think Claire was preying on Eric, but there are cases where it is not about that, and the consequences not proportional to the "crime".

I’m wondering if you’d feel the same way if the teacher was a male, and the student a female?  Too often predators are portrayed as the stereotypically creepy guy, but it’s never that obvious. 
I can only speak to Canada, but age of consent (16)  does not come into play when someone has a role of authority over another (e.g. teacher, coach, pastor). It’s not a victimless crime, even for guys, and I hope that subsequent episodes explore that. 

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, hula-la said:

I’m wondering if you’d feel the same way if the teacher was a male, and the student a female?

I am a woman, I had a relationship with a male teacher in my school when I was 17-18, he was in his mid 30's. We remained friends. I do feel the same way

[jackjill89]

19 hours ago, circumvent said:

I get the power dynamics, I just don't really understand how it becomes rape. Rape is about power but there are many consensual sex that are also based on power, just not in those situations that you described. It is a fine line and generalizations muddle the things a little bit. Ideally, it would be looked at case by case. The show does portray Claire as a predator, but it is subtle. 

I think I am having trouble with this kind of relationship being called statutory rape, considering the ramifications  - sexual predator list, inability to work certain jobs. Again, I do think Claire was preying on Eric, but there are cases where it is not about that, and the consequences not proportional to the "crime".

I have no trouble with it at all. I do think all those consequences are proportional. It is a crime, plain and simple. 

[circumvent]

5 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

I do think all those consequences are proportional.

A 18-year old having sex with a 17-year old have the same consequences in some places, like being considered a predator. 

I don't think grooming is the same as preying. In the show Eric has agency, and I do like that the grooming part is at times subtle. Claire seems, at times, lost and impulsive, but not someone who is out to get every student. Besides, have been in a relationship with a teacher, I don't see why he should be treated like he was using his "power" to get students. That would not be justice. It was natural and organic.

But I didn't grow up in this country. The United States is extremely puritan concerning relationships, body and sex. Maybe that contributes to the number of real predators and pedophiles.

[snickers]

2 hours ago, circumvent said:

A 18-year old having sex with a 17-year old have the same consequences in some places, like being considered a predator. 

I don't think grooming is the same as preying. In the show Eric has agency, and I do like that the grooming part is at times subtle. Claire seems, at times, lost and impulsive, but not someone who is out to get every student. Besides, have been in a relationship with a teacher, I don't see why he should be treated like he was using his "power" to get students. That would not be justice. It was natural and organic.

But I didn't grow up in this country. The United States is extremely puritan concerning relationships, body and sex. Maybe that contributes to the number of real predators and pedophiles.

The US is a puritan society, it has loosed up quite a bit i think, but, i mean, it was founded by puritans right? LOL

 

I do not think that is why we have predators and pedophiles....

 

Claire just makes bad decisions period....she's not a predator, but she is abusing her position, doctors/teachers/counselor's etc,  people in positions of authority/power cannot be in relationships with the people they provide a "direct service" to

 

I myself come a counseling background, now, I am not currently doing that, but I am still in the social services realm, and a good piece of advice i heard once at a training was, that it is natural to develop feelings for the people we serve, but if it happens, you have to remove yourself from the situation, you cannot work with them, and you cannot be with them or begin a relationship with them.  I believe in my profession, you cannot start a relationship until you have had no contact for 5 years.....so the person who did the training said, "you tell that person, if you really have feelings for me, you will wait"

 

I mean that might sound ridiculous, but I thought that was good advice, you have to remove yourself, cut yourself off and move on, and say, "find me in 5 years, i'm out"

 

otherwise you end up like Claire here....

Edited December 5, 2020 by snickers

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, snickers said:

The US is a puritan society, it has loosed up quite a bit i think, but, i mean, it was founded by puritans right? LOL

 

I do not think that is why we have predators and pedophiles....

 

Claire just makes bad decisions period....she's not a predator, but she is abusing her position, doctors/teachers/counselor's etc

Yes, the US was founded by puritans (who also committed genocide int he name of god) but I meant also on the sense of the false sense of "chosen". The arrogant superiority as if they have god's permission to dictate what people should think (but rarely doing what they preach). And no, that is definitely not THE reason for pedophiles, but it might be one factor in the number of sexually repressed people, some of which become obsessed with children's bodies.

Totally agree with the bad decisions. She is abusing her position. As I mentioned before, I think the show does a good job showing her conflicts. I don't know if they will go into the possible reasons for her actions, but it doesn't paint her as a creepy person. I appreciate the nuance.