S16.E07: Week 7

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

Real talk with Ivan.

“Blake’s got some demons.” “Blake needs to go to church.”

Booty calls for Chris Harrison (in more than one way).

Tayshia’s 2:30am lounging attire to be “surprised” by a visitor includes jewelry and full makeup. Hair not wrapped. No headscarf. This show is a lie. 

I really enjoyed the episode and had some actual laugh-out-loud moments. Despite Tayshia’s ridiculous overreaction to vague “wrong reasons” drama. Despite what apparently will be endless Noah-as-villiain provocation. Despite the dismissal of Jordan and Dr. Joe. Oh, and despite the realization that I’m a humorless old person now that I'm less concerned that the floor is lava and more concerned about damaging the furniture.

[woodscommaelle]

I hate when they bring back old contestants, and I can’t remember if I liked them or hated them...looking at you, Sydney. 

[woodscommaelle]

Also, Ed was more likable in the five minute scene with Chris Harrison than he’s been all season.  I found him endearing, and a week or two ago he actually grossed me out. 

[dirtypop90]

I haven’t posted much because Tayshia doesn’t give me much to snark on; I think she’s doing a damn good job. 

But I did think the the BLM conversation was awkward. I listened to Becca and Rachel’s podcast and they thought the producers basically talked Ivan into bringing up BLM. Rachel said they for sure knew about the brother and that they are encouraged to bring up traumatic events during the night time of the one on one and Rachel had no doubt Ivan was encourage to make the connection. Becca thought it was weird they used Ivan to lead the conversation, typically the lead would. Maybe Tayshia expressed a desire not to go there so they basically forced her to. I thought about it and Tayshia asked him about his dad, and he responded by talking about his brother’s trauma in jail and BLM...not what Tayshia was expecting. It’s kinda screwed up they didn’t give Tayshia a heads up and let her prepare some bullet points or just prepare herself emotionally. Being able to talk coherently about trauma on cue isn’t everyone’s forte, and if Rachel is right, Ivan went in prepared.

[thehepburn]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

I haven’t posted much because Tayshia doesn’t give me much to snark on; I think she’s doing a damn good job. 

But I did think the the BLM conversation was awkward. I listened to Becca and Rachel’s podcast and they thought the producers basically talked Ivan into bringing up BLM. Rachel said they for sure knew about the brother and that they are encouraged to bring up traumatic events during the night time of the one on one and Rachel had no doubt Ivan was encourage to make the connection. Becca thought it was weird they used Ivan to lead the conversation, typically the lead would. Maybe Tayshia expressed a desire not to go there so they basically forced her to. I thought about it and Tayshia asked him about his dad, and he responded by talking about his brother’s trauma in jail and BLM...not what Tayshia was expecting. It’s kinda screwed up they didn’t give Tayshia a heads up and let her prepare some bullet points or just prepare herself emotionally. Being able to talk coherently about trauma on cue isn’t everyone’s forte, and if Rachel is right, Ivan went in prepared.

 

That's not how it happened. 

Actually, they both offered info on their dads and they talked about both being the eldest child. Tay then asked Ivan about being an oldest brother and that's when Ivan started about his brother and prison and the rest. Way before it ever got to #BLM, Tay was contributing little but saying "Absolutely" over and over again.  I'm surprised that Tay didnt say "Absolutely" instead of "It's a lot" as she had been doing.  

[chocolatine]

44 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Actually, they both offered info on their dads and they talked about both being the eldest child. Tay then asked Ivan about being an oldest brother and that's when Ivan started about his brother and prison and the rest. Way before it ever got to #BLM, Tay was contributing little but saying "Absolutely" over and over again.  I'm surprised that Tay didnt say "Absolutely" instead of "It's a lot" as she had been doing.  

That's correct, but the conversation still took a jarring turn to George Floyd/BLM, in my opinion. Ivan was initially talking about trying to be a role model for his younger brother, who had been incarcerated for four years but is now apparently getting his life back on track and reuniting with his daughter. A lot of talk about how much Ivan loves his brother and his niece and tries to be there for them in any way he can. Then, out of left field (or at least it was edited that way), Ivan started talking about his brother getting beaten in prison and drawing parallels to George Floyd. I can't blame Tayshia for being caught off guard by that; I would have been too.

[dirtypop90]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That's correct, but the conversation still took a jarring turn to George Floyd/BLM, in my opinion. Ivan was initially talking about trying to be a role model for his younger brother, who had been incarcerated for four years but is now apparently getting his life back on track and reuniting with his daughter. A lot of talk about how much Ivan loves his brother and his niece and tries to be there for them in any way he can. Then, out of left field (or at least it was edited that way), Ivan started talking about his brother getting beaten in prison and drawing parallels to George Floyd. I can't blame Tayshia for being caught off guard by that; I would have been too.

Agreed. It felt very jarring. I remember thinking “how did we end up here?,” which doesn’t happen when the conversation flows naturally JMO

 

3 hours ago, thehepburn said:

 

That's not how it happened. 

Actually, they both offered info on their dads and they talked about both being the eldest child. Tay then asked Ivan about being an oldest brother and that's when Ivan started about his brother and prison and the rest. Way before it ever got to #BLM, Tay was contributing little but saying "Absolutely" over and over again.  I'm surprised that Tay didnt say "Absolutely" instead of "It's a lot" as she had been doing.  

 

I didn’t remember the exact sequence. But remember it turn a sharp dark turn when the conversation started very light and fluffy IMO And Tayshia added very little to the conversation before then because...well...she has zero romantic chemistry with Ivan and has him deep in the friendzone. Apparently he didn’t pick up on her lack of interest because he started to expose his family trauma. If Rachel is correct and BLM was the planned serious topic for the evening, producers should’ve given their lead a heads up, and then she would’ve been prepared to speak on it like Ivan JMO

Edited November 29, 2020 by dirtypop90

[plotpointer]

Speaking as a Black American, I need to respond to some of these comments:

The topic Ivan was discussing is the same conversation that happens in most Black American households.  He should be applauded for bringing up the issue on a nationally viewed reality show, but he shouldn’t be considered a genius or “the one” for Tay based on that convo.  Now he may actually be both of those things, but we should come to that conclusion based on other factors.  Frankly, any of the African-Americans on the show could have expressed similar concerns.

As for Tay, she did the right thing by not speaking for an entire race on a nationally broadcast program.  Instead, she stated what the Black Lives Matter movement meant to her.  She said as someone who grew up in an all-White community, she finally heard people say her life matters.  I think that was powerful and all that she needed to say.  I hate it when people expect one individual to explain and analyze all the complexities of racism in this country simply because they are Black.  
 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by plotpointer

[thehepburn]

Well, I def preferred Tay's more authentic response than if she was given a headsup and given "bullet pts" to go over like a trained hamster. I certainly never expect much from anyone who goes on this crappy show, esp an influencer in the "lifestyle/beauty space". 

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, plotpointer said:

Speaking as a Black American, I need to respond to some of these comments:

The topic Ivan was discussing is the same conversation that happens in most Black American households. bring He shoulfor ing up the issued be applauded on a nationally viewed reality show, but he shouldn’t be considered a genius or “the one” for Tay based on that convo.  Now he may actually be both of those things, but we should come to that conclusion based on other factors.  Frankly, any of the African-Americans on the show could have expressed similar concerns.

As for Tay, she did the right thing by not speaking for an entire race on a nationally broadcast program.  Instead, she stated what the Black Lives Matter movement meant to her.  She said as someone who grew up in an all-White community, she finally heard people say her life matters.  I think that was powerful and all that she needed to say.  I hate it when people expect one individual to explain and analyze all the complexities of racism in this country simply because they are Black.  
 

 

I hate that, too, and that's why I was so surprised that the show seemed to be expecting  Ivan and Tay  to clear up a subject that has had  brilliant African American professors  arguing for the past six months.  

 

[chocolatine]

20 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I hate that, too, and that's why I was so surprised that the show seemed to be expecting  Ivan and Tay  to clear up a subject that has had  brilliant African American professors  arguing for the past six months.  

Maybe not so much expecting them to clear up a difficult subject, but expecting them to voice their opinions and feelings on this subject just because they're Black, but that's just as insulting. I remember when I was a university student in Germany and the UK, it was de rigueur for European intellectuals to criticize Israel's policies. So every time one of my fellow students found out that I'm Jewish and have family in Israel, they would ask my "take" on the situation in the Middle East. I always felt put on the spot and like I was expected to justify my existence in those moments, and my answers were far from eloquent.

[Arkay]

34 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Maybe not so much expecting them to clear up a difficult subject, but expecting them to voice their opinions and feelings on this subject just because they're Black, but that's just as insulting. I remember when I was a university student in Germany and the UK, it was de rigueur for European intellectuals to criticize Israel's policies. So every time one of my fellow students found out that I'm Jewish and have family in Israel, they would ask my "take" on the situation in the Middle East. I always felt put on the spot and like I was expected to justify my existence in those moments, and my answers were far from eloquent.

@chocolatine you don't need to be eloquent. Your existence is justified by who you are, period. 

It seemed to me that what Tayshia found to be deeply compatible with Ivan was more that they were both biracial. She seemed to really focus on the two of them being mixed. Any of the African-American contestants could have had a BLM conversation with her, as @plotpointer said, but they wouldn't have shared in the conflict of being in two worlds.  The conversation with Ivan was important but felt forced, or at least caught her off-guard, once Ivan veered from speaking strictly about his own family. 

[dirtypop90]

4 hours ago, thehepburn said:

Well, I def preferred Tay's more authentic response than if she was given a headsup and given "bullet pts" to go over like a trained hamster. I certainly never expect much from anyone who goes on this crappy show, esp an influencer in the "lifestyle/beauty space". 

Tayshia could’ve come up with what she wanted to say like Ivan knew what he was going to say. Ivan didn’t sound scripted just a little prompted JMO 

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, Arkay said:

@chocolatine you don't need to be eloquent. Your existence is justified by who you are, period. 

It seemed to me that what Tayshia found to be deeply compatible with Ivan was more that they were both biracial. She seemed to really focus on the two of them being mixed. Any of the African-American contestants could have had a BLM conversation with her, as @plotpointer said, but they wouldn't have shared in the conflict of being in two worlds.  The conversation with Ivan was important but felt forced, or at least caught her off-guard, once Ivan veered from speaking strictly about his own family. 

Another thing I noticed was that Ivan didn’t comfort her. He made sure not to wrap her in a hug or do anything that could hinder her from speaking or stop the conversation. And he kept trying to get her to speak even after she was very distressed, even saying this like “tell me what you’re thinking.” He very much took the role of lead trying to pull something out of a contestant per the producers’ orders. The switch in roles was noticeable IMO

Edited November 30, 2020 by dirtypop90

[thehepburn]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

Another thing I noticed was that Ivan didn’t comfort her. He made sure not to wrap her in a hug or do anything that could hinder her from speaking or stop the conversation. And he kept trying to get her to speak even after she was very distressed, even saying this like “tell me what you’re thinking.” He very much took the role of lead trying to pull something out of a contestant per the producers’ orders. The switch in roles was noticeable IMO

 

He may not have hugged her but he touched her face and wiped away her tears. He finished her sentences bc she was struggling so much and kept on encouraging her by saying "Youre good, youre good." 

I also noticed that when the moment passed, Tay went back to her sympathetic smirk face and back to saying "Absolutely not" when Ivan talked about being called a N-word. The change from tears to smirk was noticable.

[dirtypop90]

2 hours ago, thehepburn said:

 

He may not have hugged her but he touched her face and wiped away her tears. He finished her sentences bc she was struggling so much and kept on encouraging her by saying "Youre good, youre good." 

I also noticed that when the moment passed, Tay went back to her sympathetic smirk face and back to saying "Absolutely not" when Ivan talked about being called a N-word. The change from tears to smirk was noticable.

Yes; his touches felt more like encouragement to keep going, like he was pushing her to keep talking. He finished her sentences to keep the conversation going, per orders. All JMO. In real life, if I’m having a convo with someone whom I barely know, and they start breaking down emotionally, I comfort them by saying it’s okay (might give a hug) and change the conversation or try to cheer them up in some way. [Especially if I started the convo, I would feel guilty, but realize that’s just me and I don’t like to see people cry]  I don’t keep pushing them to talk about it; I would only do that with someone I have a close intimate relationship with and, even then, I’d give them time to compose themselves. That’s part of why the conversation felt off for me.

I didn’t notice Tayshia smirk at all during the conversation.

Edited November 30, 2020 by dirtypop90

[thehepburn]

 

Ivan: I was called the N-word. Happened a lot in college. That's not right.

Tayshia: *smirk*

 

ETA: Wow, look at her hand position. Gee, I wonder how many hrs did she practice in the mirror to get this "listening" Blue Steel look right.

Edited November 30, 2020 by thehepburn

[Bluesky]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:08 PM, JenE4 said:

It sounded like he called it off because of baggage from his parents’ bad marriage.

Or so he says.  When she asked Bennet if he broke it off he hesitated and then changed the subject about his parents marriage.  He knew about their marriage before he asked someone to marry him.  
Off subject but Bennett’s teeth bug me.  Take some of that “wealth management “ money and get orthodontic work.   His two front teeth stick out and the other ones are crowded behind them.  Easy fix and will make a huge difference.  

[Mu Shu]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:39 AM, plotpointer said:

Speaking as a Black American, I need to respond to some of these comments:

The topic Ivan was discussing is the same conversation that happens in most Black American households.  He should be applauded for bringing up the issue on a nationally viewed reality show, but he shouldn’t be considered a genius or “the one” for Tay based on that convo.  Now he may actually be both of those things, but we should come to that conclusion based on other factors.  Frankly, any of the African-Americans on the show could have expressed similar concerns.

As for Tay, she did the right thing by not speaking for an entire race on a nationally broadcast program.  Instead, she stated what the Black Lives Matter movement meant to her.  She said as someone who grew up in an all-White community, she finally heard people say her life matters.  I think that was powerful and all that she needed to say.  I hate it when people expect one individual to explain and analyze all the complexities of racism in this country simply because they are Black.  
 

 

YES. And hearing a bunch of white “liberals” opining on how Tayshia should think and act as a black woman pisses me off. Her experience isn’t the same as someone in an urban city, or in the country. How about letting people think independently? 

[JudyObscure]

6 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

And hearing a bunch of white “liberals” opining on how Tayshia should think and act as a black woman pisses me off. 

And right there is why I almost didn't watch this season and a few regulars decided not to.  This whole board is about snarking on the show, particularly the lead.  Every year POC  watch the Bachelor and snark on the lead and say how they can't tell all the blond contestants  apart, but I found out during Rachel's season that if the lead is black she should be free from all criticism by privileged white women.  So why even watch?

 

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

And right there is why I almost didn't watch this season and a few regulars decided not to.  This whole board is about snarking on the show, particularly the lead.  Every year POC  watch the Bachelor and snark on the lead and say how they can't tell all the blond contestants  apart, but I found out during Rachel's season that if the lead is black she should be free from all criticism by privileged white women.  So why even watch?

 

I have no problem with white women snarking on anyone. But white women bitching about how Tayshia sees herself as a black woman, and how she should react is bullshit, IMO.