E01.03: Art of the Swoon

[GaT]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:29 PM, Enero said:

I feel bad for the Opera singer. Being a “modern” woman who is not from a wealthy family in the early 19th century will never end well. She was very naïve to believe Anthony when he said he’d take care of her forever. But glad she finally came to her senses. 

I'm a little confused about the opera singer, is there some stigma attached to being an opera singer? I got the impression that being an opera singer was considered not good enough which was why she could only be Anthony's mistress, but he couldn't publically court her.

[nodorothyparker]

She's not of their class or society and thus would never have been considered marriage material. Singers and actresses with the very rare exception would be considered women of easy virtue and it would have been understood that they would be open to being "kept" by wealthy aristocratic men.  That was usually a formal arrangement with the man financially providing for her longterm in exchange for exclusivity. Anthony wanted all the perks of such of an arrangement but didn't want to call it what it was and formalize it, which is essentially wasting her time when she could be making arrangements with a man who would provide for her.  

[AryasMum]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:18 PM, SoWindsor said:

It seems I’m in the minority but I love Daphne and think she and Simon have wonderful chemistry. The actress definitely reminds me of Keira Knightly and Hillary Duff’s sister Haylee. And maybe some other actresses that I can’t place just yet.

I think our standards of beauty have gotten a bit warped with filters and plastic surgery hence why many don’t think Daphne is pretty enough to be the diamond. 
 

Also I don’t particularly like Eloise. Feels like she’s trying to hard to be different. Feels forced.

I don’t have a problem with the actresses’ looks, as much as book Daphne was pretty, but seen to eligible males as just a friend. That was the true reason she struck a deal with Simon. 
 

The actress is going a little over board, for me, with the Shy Di peaking up at men. She looks distractingly like Kristen Connolly, with a side of Anastasia Steele. I’m waiting for her to bite her lip. 
 

I do find it amusing that a self-administered orgasm has turned her into a confident femme fatale. 

[magdalene]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:47 AM, nodorothyparker said:

She's not of their class or society and thus would never have been considered marriage material. Singers and actresses with the very rare exception would be considered women of easy virtue and it would have been understood that they would be open to being "kept" by wealthy aristocratic men.  That was usually a formal arrangement with the man financially providing for her longterm in exchange for exclusivity. Anthony wanted all the perks of such of an arrangement but didn't want to call it what it was and formalize it, which is essentially wasting her time when she could be making arrangements with a man who would provide for her.  

A smart woman could do very well as a sort of professional mistress.  Some women got very rich that way and more power to them.  They certainly had more freedom than the society ladies but their lives were also more precarious.  If you timed things right and made smart choices you could be set for life and quite comfortable after you "retired" from the life.  If you made bad choices you could end up desolate after you lost your looks and rich men stopped wanting you.

Sometimes men would marry their long-time mistresses. There was this famous Victorian politician who married his mistress.  His name escapes me.

[methodwriter85]

Aww, Freddie Stroma. If there was ever a guy made for Hallmark Movies about princes who marry commoners, it's him. Now that Netflix has him I'm assuming they're going to start using him for their Netflix Hallmark-inspired movies.

I liked Daphne's coming out moment. It reminded a little of when Keri Russell's character in Austenland walks out with full confidence for the first time.

I really like the whole Daphne/Simon courtship and thus I'm enjoying the show. My hard and fast rule about romantic shows is that if I can't get into the romance, I can't get into the show, so the show is working for me in that regard.

What Mrs. F did to Marina was really fucked up, but I get why she did it. Marina still didn't seem to "get it" when she was in the slum. She had this smugness to her that basically said, "Oh, but I'm special and loved and this certainly won't happen to me as my darling love wouldn't let it!" She didn't get that she was basically set to live out the plot of Les Miserables. I just wanted to kind of shake her a little bit to understand the reality of what Marina was looking at.

Of course, watch this show have it turn out that the soldier truly is a stand-up guy who really loves Marina and wants the baby because this is Austen-inspired, not Les Miserables-inspired. LOL. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by methodwriter85

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

What Mrs. F did to Marina was really fucked up, but I get why she did it. Marina still didn't seem to "get it" when she was in the slum. She had this smugness to her that basically said, "Oh, but I'm special and loved and this certainly won't happen to me as my darling love wouldn't let it!" She didn't get that she was basically set to live out the plot of Les Miserables. I just wanted to kind of shake her a little bit to understand the reality of what Marina was looking at. 

So did I. Marina really should have known how bad it was for her. Especially when the letters stop coming.  

[methodwriter85]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So did I. Marina really should have known how bad it was for her. Especially when the letters stop coming.  

I know there's naivete, but my god, any sympathy I had for her kind of vanished when she looked at the people in the slum and basically just romanticized them and their struggles as "hard-working" people who are the salt of the Earth like the sheltered middle class chick she was. Bitch, look at the little kids looking hopeless on the streets instead of being in school! You think that's any kind of a life for a child? However, the actress did do well when Marina finally seemed to snap out of her fantasy reality and finally seemed to get what she was looking at once she read the fake letter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the show goes the "fantasy" route for Marina, but the reality is that a soldier Lothario type is generally not going to do the right thing. He's likely already on to the next distraction. They didn't call them G.I. babies back then but they sure as hell had them. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I know there's naivete, but my god, any sympathy I had for her kind of vanished when she looked at the people in the slum and basically just romanticized them and their struggles as "hard-working" people who are the salt of the Earth like the sheltered middle class chick she was. Bitch, look at the little kids looking hopeless on the streets instead of being in school! You think that's any kind of a life for a child? However, the actress did do well when Marina finally seemed to snap out of her fantasy reality and finally seemed to get what she was looking at once she read the fake letter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the show goes the "fantasy" route for Marina, but the reality is that a soldier Lothario type is generally not going to do the right thing. He's likely already on to the next distraction. They didn't call them G.I. babies back then but they sure as hell had them. 

I agree. Yes, they were "hard-working" people because they had to be. They had to make do with whatever money they could make. Their struggling just to survive. To be able to just feed, cloth and keep a roof over their kids head. No school for the kids who soon would end up having to work to bring in money. She has no idea how hard their life is. 

[methodwriter85]

36 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. Yes, they were "hard-working" people because they had to be. They had to make do with whatever money they could make. Their struggling just to survive. To be able to just feed, cloth and keep a roof over their kids head. No school for the kids who soon would end up having to work to bring in money. She has no idea how hard their life is. 

Yeah, Marina had the luxury as a middle class girl to thumb her nose with disdain at the "rich" while romanticizing the poor. She doesn't think of herself as having privileges but she does, and she's about to lose them if she can't get a respectable man willing to marry her.

[andromeda331]

36 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Yeah, Marina had the luxury as a middle class girl to thumb her nose with disdain at the "rich" while romanticizing the poor. She doesn't think of herself as having privileges but she does, and she's about to lose them if she can't get a respectable man willing to marry her.

It reminded me of a scene from Victoria, the series about Queen Victoria when Victoria and Albert get lost and spend a night with a couple in their small home and the wife darning socks. They looked at it like a nice charming life. Its easy to do that when you don't have to live that life. Marina was the same way. Sure its great to look at the poor and think they have a nice life when you aren't the one living it and never had to live without the comforts of your middle to upper class life. Marina's not married so it would be all on her to work to support her and her child. She looks down on the rich and the rich men as if she's better then them while somehow not understanding that she could very well end up like the poor based on her decisions. And it certainly wouldn't be romantic.

[Kira53]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:16 AM, GaT said:

I'm a little confused about the opera singer, is there some stigma attached to being an opera singer? I got the impression that being an opera singer was considered not good enough which was why she could only be Anthony's mistress, but he couldn't publically court her.

She is not a lady.  She works for a living.  Not assumed to be pure either, nor is she "pure".

[methodwriter85]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:16 AM, GaT said:

I'm a little confused about the opera singer, is there some stigma attached to being an opera singer? I got the impression that being an opera singer was considered not good enough which was why she could only be Anthony's mistress, but he couldn't publically court her.

Women who were in the performing arts were basically seen as prostitutes, or at least open to being one. It wasn't something any respectable lady would have been allowed to be.

[Camera One]

I think they've done a good job of making Daphne look refined and natural in a way that explains why she is seen as a "diamond" by the Queen.  I'm assuming part of it is due to the family she comes from.  I think her banter with the Duke does work, though from today's standards, it's a bit icky that he's older and has slept with who knows how many women.

The opera singer subplot isn't very engaging, though I do feel a bit more for Anthony and I liked his conversation with Daphne in this one.

It was nice to see a bit more of Benedict, though the scenes with him smoking with Eloise felt like a repeat of the one from the last episode.  I like Eloise's love of reading and wanting more out of life than marriage, but giving her the same lines all the time makes her seem whiny.

The Marina subplot is also a bit bland, though Penelope's role in it really brightens the story a lot.  The forged letter is one of those frustrating plot annoyances.

This episode wasn't as eventful but I still enjoyed it.  

[LadyChaos]

Rewatching in preparation for s2, and I'm struck by just home much Eloise and Marina just bug on me.

Eloise is so sure that no woman would every actually want to get married and have children that she is refusing to actually listen to those around her and see that not everyone agrees with her opinions like she seems to think they do.

And given the time this show exists in, there is no way that Marina wouldn't be aware that she was living on borrowed time for pregnancy, and while Lady Featherington is doing this all for her own selfish reasons, she is actually doing the right thing by trying to get her married before anyone finds out because Marina's fate would have been horrendous....and in turn Marina is nothing but vile and downright nasty.  Given the time, to treat a hosting family like that would've been unheard of. Even if LH is kind of a Mrs. Bennett...so to speak.

Also....a lot of people are commenting on the show, finding it unbelievable that the 'ladies of the ton' wouldn't know about sex, masterbation, etc... There was a docuseries I watched years ago called 'The History of Sex.' and it is quite believable that any daughter from a wealthy family would not have known about sex. Daughters were expected to be accomplished, intelligent, well mannered, innocent, and naive. The show brought up several documented horror stories about women finding out about what happens on their wedding night...as their new husbands were trying to do it. Also women were taught that touching themselves for any other reason other than cleaning themselves was sinful so...

[LadyChaos]

On 2/21/2021 at 1:23 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Women who were in the performing arts were basically seen as prostitutes, or at least open to being one. It wasn't something any respectable lady would have been allowed to be.

yep.....they were the type of women, men like the Viscount had as mistresses but never married. In fact during that period of time, it was a sign of wealth and status that he could support her in her rooms. I know its a show, and its romanticizing things, but the reality of the time was that it would have been completely normal for him to maintain Sienna in her rooms and upkeep her lifestyle....while also marrying to produce an heir. And since Lady Bridgerton was no longer a naive young wife so she would've known this so her speech about him not doing his duty because of Sienna was kind of....falls short. But then again she wants all her children to marry for love.

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

yep.....they were the type of women, men like the Viscount had as mistresses but never married. In fact during that period of time, it was a sign of wealth and status that he could support her in her rooms. I know its a show, and its romanticizing things, but the reality of the time was that it would have been completely normal for him to maintain Sienna in her rooms and upkeep her lifestyle....while also marrying to produce an heir. And since Lady Bridgerton was no longer a naive young wife so she would've known this so her speech about him not doing his duty because of Sienna was kind of....falls short. But then again she wants all her children to marry for love.

She does. Which is nice but she should know it's not always an option.

[andromeda331]

Quote

Also....a lot of people are commenting on the show, finding it unbelievable that the 'ladies of the ton' wouldn't know about sex, masterbation, etc... There was a docuseries I watched years ago called 'The History of Sex.' and it is quite believable that any daughter from a wealthy family would not have known about sex. Daughters were expected to be accomplished, intelligent, well mannered, innocent, and naive. The show brought up several documented horror stories about women finding out about what happens on their wedding night...as their new husbands were trying to do it. Also women were taught that touching themselves for any other reason other than cleaning themselves was sinful so...

It doesn't surprise me either. Most princesses had no idea what was going to happen on the wedding night. One poor girl hid in the gardens afterwards until a servant found her and took her right back to her room. It was so stupid not to prepare girls for it.  But they didn't. One thing I do like is Daphne telling her mother that she didn't prepare her at all. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by andromeda331