S01.E06: The Case of Henry Scarlet

[rove4]

12 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I would hope not since PBS is a co-producer.  

If part of the renewal decision is up to PBS then I'm more concerned.  I seem to recall that they canceled Mercy Street after two short seasons. I don't know what they consider a "ratings success" but I read somewhere that the show doesn't get as many viewers as All Creatures Great and Small. 

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, rove4 said:

If part of the renewal decision is up to PBS then I'm more concerned.  I seem to recall that they canceled Mercy Street after two short seasons. I don't know what they consider a "ratings success" but I read somewhere that the show doesn't get as many viewers as All Creatures Great and Small. 

I think the actual TV rating for All Creatures were higher, but I have been surprised at the number of my younger friends that have watched Miss Scarlet, and they watch not via the regular PBS station, but on Amazon Prime, ITunes, etc. Also, Miss Scarlet was trending on Twitter on Sunday, but All Creatures was not. Made me wonder if maybe Miss Scarlet is pulling in a younger demographic, which I would think PBS would want badly.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Nolefan

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, rove4 said:

I read somewhere that the show doesn't get as many viewers as All Creatures Great and Small. 

All Creatures Great and Small is a known property compared to Miss Scarlet and the Duke as it's a reboot of a formerly successful show and book series. 

21 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

I have been surprised at the number of my younger friends that have watched Miss Scarlet, and they watch not via the regular PBS station, but on Amazon Prime, ITunes, etc.

I do know mystery shows tend to do well on streaming sites.  Or they used to. 

[taanja]

5 hours ago, nara said:

Although she is unconventional in most ways, Eliza is very protective of her reputation as a virtuous woman. I think perhaps because her mother died and she had no female friends of her age and class, her view of what is and isn’t okay from a romantic perspective is very, very conservative. 
 

The kiss was probably the first time she did anything adult in a romantic sense—intellectually she became an adult quite young. 
She was likely surprised, scared of new feelings, and embarrassed, and I think the slap was her response to those emotions, as well as reflecting her conservative view point of how she should behave to remain virtuous. I doubt she would discuss the kiss so much if it was truly non-consensual.

And Eliza was pretty shocked when William suggested she stay at his house. Her reputation would be ruined!

and basically in the 1880's -- wasn't a kiss sort of a declaration of intent -- like a promise or something to get married? When they were teenagers not so much but now that they are adults - a kiss is serious business.

[nara]

34 minutes ago, taanja said:

And Eliza was pretty shocked when William suggested she stay at his house. Her reputation would be ruined!

and basically in the 1880's -- wasn't a kiss sort of a declaration of intent -- like a promise or something to get married? When they were teenagers not so much but now that they are adults - a kiss is serious business.

You’re absolutely right about the meaning of a kiss or even the dinner date being more significant in those times. He has started courting her with the dinner invitation. (At first, I was surprised that going to dinner was such  new thing for them, but then I realized the significance.)

For a woman worried about her reputation, Eliza sure has a lot of men coming around. Frank and Moses have both snuck in (and at least one was spotted), Rupert shows up regularly in broad daylight, and William visits regularly and spent the night. If she has a nosy neighbor, her reputation is probably already shot!

[Nolefan]

22 minutes ago, taanja said:

And Eliza was pretty shocked when William suggested she stay at his house. Her reputation would be ruined!

Honestly, I was a little shocked (but in a good way!) when he made that suggestion, too. And was equally shocked (in a good way!) when she just immediately suggested in response that he spend the night at her house. And I chuckled at the low key happiness on his face when he stated that he needed to give the desk Sergeant her address so that they (i.e., all of Scotland Yard) would know where he would be spending the night.

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, Nolefan said:

I think the actual TV rating for All Creatures were higher, but I have been surprised at the number of my younger friends that have watched Miss Scarlet, and they watch not via the regular PBS station, but on Amazon Prime, ITunes, etc. Also, Miss Scarlet was trending on Twitter on Sunday, but All Creatures was not. Made me wonder if maybe Miss Scarlet is pulling in a younger demographic, which I would think PBS would want badly.

PBS cares about who "pledges"( gives money) to the programming on their local TV stations. Those donations and their big donor underwriters are what keeps PBS going. The younger demographic is important to advertisers on on networks like ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.. PBS isn't dependent on advertising.  The younger demographic may not be important to them unless there is actual monthly financial support behind it.

For what it's worth, I watched both "Miss Scarlet"  and "All Creatures" Sunday night on my local PBS TV station and the PBS announcer called the last episode of "Miss Scarlet" the "finale"  and the last episode of "All Creatures" the "season finale".

Sometimes the programming decisions of both PBS and the BBC are baffling to me.  Look how "Victoria" just ended without conclusion and that was a big ratings hit for them.

[ComeWhatMay]

2 hours ago, magdalene said:

For what it's worth, I watched both "Miss Scarlet"  and "All Creatures" Sunday night on my local PBS TV station and the PBS announcer called the last episode of "Miss Scarlet" the "finale"  and the last episode of "All Creatures" the "season finale".

Sometimes the programming decisions of both PBS and the BBC are baffling to me.  Look how "Victoria" just ended without conclusion and that was a big ratings hit for them.

William and Eliza’s walk off into the sunset and a Victorian dinner date signifying courting reminded me of The Paradise, another one that just stopped. That said, the absence of a cliffhanger and a vision of HEA when renewal is not guaranteed is care and feeding of your audience. 

I was not happy about Mercy Street (especially as renewal was dangled when the last episode was broadcast) but they had name actors working below market and a pre-scandal, much ballyhooed Mary-Elizabeth Winstead with scheduling conflicts. It was not unforeseen and that may have put them off getting hopes up given the backlash at the time. Victoria had a tired creator and writer who tried to do it all. They left two seasons worth of threads and a lot of disappointed fans in their wake. I hope we see William and Eliza again, and surely the actors would not talk of delayed filming for a not renewed program as that’s not right either, but like you, I don’t count my chickens before they hatch with PBS.  

[Door County Cherry]

5 hours ago, magdalene said:

For what it's worth, I watched both "Miss Scarlet"  and "All Creatures" Sunday night on my local PBS TV station and the PBS announcer called the last episode of "Miss Scarlet" the "finale"  and the last episode of "All Creatures" the "season finale".

Mine didn't.  Both were billed as season finales.  No guarantee either way.

[chaifan]

8 hours ago, nara said:

For a woman worried about her reputation, Eliza sure has a lot of men coming around. Frank and Moses have both snuck in (and at least one was spotted), Rupert shows up regularly in broad daylight, and William visits regularly and spent the night. If she has a nosy neighbor, her reputation is probably already shot!

I think there are plausible reasons for each of them to be around without sacrificing Eliza's virtue:  Rupert is, to the outside world, a suitor, so he's allowed daytime visits.  William is, to the outside world, practically family, having known her since childhood and is sort of an overseer since her father died.  Frank is a police officer, there on official business, during a general time period when other police officers were guarding her house.  And Moses... well, I think he does his best to not be spotted (although how that is possible I do not know), but he would be seen as "the help". 

Also, a woman could more easily have men to her house, where presumably she's not alone due to family, servants, etc., than go to a man's house.  That would be a bit scandalous, especially going to William's where they would be the only two there.  And then she'd have to do the walk of shame home in the morning.  😉 

 

[Nolefan]

My two cents about S2 (disclaimers — I have no inside knowledge)...I think the hold up is the Covid situation. Unlike All Creatures, Miss Scarlet is filmed In Ireland, not the U.K. I think travel restrictions are playing a huge role in production delays. And probably because they don’t know for sure when travel restrictions will ease, it may be difficult to “line up” all the actors’ schedules for production. At the time of the IG live chat, Kate Phillips mentioned that she was filming some other projects. Stuart Martin mentioned in the same IG chat that, while filming Miss Scarlet (pre-Covid), he was able to fly home every weekend to visit his family and that he got stuck for serval months in Prague unable to even visit his family on another film project he was working on last summer due to Covid lockdowns. I bet he doesn’t want that to happen again. Both actors seemed very keen on S2 (and spoke about S2 storylines), and neither gave any indication that they did not think it was happening — only that they did not know when yet. I am probably reading too much into it, but both gave smiles like they knew something but just couldn’t say so when answering a question about whether there would be a S2. On another note, I think Miss Scarlet was originally supposed to fill the September/October Poldark time slot. I think it will return to Masterpiece in September 2022. This way, Masterpiece can focus on pushing All Creature thru January 2022, then create a buzz for Miss Scarlet’s S2 during All Creatures. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Nolefan

[Nolefan]

10 hours ago, chaifan said:

I think there are plausible reasons for each of them to be around without sacrificing Eliza's virtue:  Rupert is, to the outside world, a suitor, so he's allowed daytime visits.  William is, to the outside world, practically family, having known her since childhood and is sort of an overseer since her father died.  Frank is a police officer, there on official business, during a general time period when other police officers were guarding her house.  And Moses... well, I think he does his best to not be spotted (although how that is possible I do not know), but he would be seen as "the help". 

I think Ivy is still holding a torch for an Eliza/Rupert marriage. But, I think she may have gotten a clue as to Eliza’s feelings about William when Ivy came into the room and announced that Eliza had a visitor, and Eliza eagerly answered with a huge smile on her face “Inspector Wellington?” and then saw Eliza’s moment of disappointment when she told Eliza it was Mr. Parker.

[rove4]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:31 AM, Door County Cherry said:

All Creatures Great and Small is a known property compared to Miss Scarlet and the Duke as it's a reboot of a formerly successful show and book series. 

I do know mystery shows tend to do well on streaming sites.  Or they used to. 

I didn't know that about All Creatures Great and Small.  I've only watched the first episode so far (have the rest sitting on my dvr).  It reminded me of a book I read a few years back, I think it was called An Irish Country Doctor...or something like that.  Seemed like basically the same premise - new doctor heads to small village to start practice with the curmudgeonly town GP -  except it's a doctor for people, not animals.  

On 2/24/2021 at 12:15 PM, nara said:

You’re absolutely right about the meaning of a kiss or even the dinner date being more significant in those times. He has started courting her with the dinner invitation. (At first, I was surprised that going to dinner was such  new thing for them, but then I realized the significance.)

I hadn't even considered the significance of the dinner date for their time period.  I guess I was still viewing it with my modern mind where dinner is just dinner.  

23 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

William and Eliza’s walk off into the sunset and a Victorian dinner date signifying courting reminded me of The Paradise, another one that just stopped. That said, the absence of a cliffhanger and a vision of HEA when renewal is not guaranteed is care and feeding of your audience. 

I was not happy about Mercy Street (especially as renewal was dangled when the last episode was broadcast) but they had name actors working below market and a pre-scandal, much ballyhooed Mary-Elizabeth Winstead with scheduling conflicts. It was not unforeseen and that may have put them off getting hopes up given the backlash at the time. Victoria had a tired creator and writer who tried to do it all. They left two seasons worth of threads and a lot of disappointed fans in their wake. I hope we see William and Eliza again, and surely the actors would not talk of delayed filming for a not renewed program as that’s not right either, but like you, I don’t count my chickens before they hatch with PBS.  

I agree. If the worse happens and there is no second season then at least the show ended well.  

I had to look up Mary Elizabeth Winstead.  I had no idea. Obi Wan??😲

[Magnumfangirl]

Quote

I think the actual TV rating for All Creatures were higher, but I have been surprised at the number of my younger friends that have watched Miss Scarlet, and they watch not via the regular PBS station, but on Amazon Prime, ITunes, etc.

Yes, I would agree that Miss Scarlet appeals more to a younger audience.  I watched and liked both, but if I had to choose between the two I'd go with MSATD because the sex appeal is off the charts!    😉  If/when it lands on Netflix, Prime, or Hulu; I can see it developing a cult following.  Anyway, I liked William so much; I've decided to give Jamestown a view in spite of the horrendous reviews.  

Edited February 25, 2021 by Magnumfangirl

[magdalene]

10 hours ago, Nolefan said:

My two cents about S2 (disclaimers — I have no inside knowledge)...I think the hold up is the Covid situation. Unlike All Creatures, Miss Scarlet is filmed In Ireland, not the U.K. I think travel restrictions are playing a huge role in production delays. And probably because they don’t know for sure when travel restrictions will ease, it may be difficult to “line up” all the actors’ schedules for production. At the time of the IG live chat, Kate Phillips mentioned that she was filming some other projects. Stuart Martin mentioned in the same IG chat that, while filming Miss Scarlet (pre-Covid), he was able to fly home every weekend to visit his family and that he got stuck for serval months in Prague unable to even visit his family on another film project he was working on last summer due to Covid lockdowns. I bet he doesn’t want that to happen again. Both actors seemed very keen on S2 (and spoke about S2 storylines), and neither gave any indication that they did not think it was happening — only that they did not know when yet. I am probably reading too much into it, but both gave smiles like they knew something but just couldn’t say so when answering a question about whether there would be a S2. On another note, I think Miss Scarlet was originally supposed to fill the September/October Poldark time slot. I think it will return to Masterpiece in September 2022. This way, Masterpiece can focus on pushing All Creature thru January 2022, then create a buzz for Miss Scarlet’s S2 during All Creatures. 

I don't know anything either. But I have been burned quite a few times in the last couple of years with PBS dramas getting canceled prematurely and often ending on cliffhangers that were very disrespectful to the audience.

I am rooting for this show to continue but at least as others have said it didn't end on some nasty cliffhanger.

[Nolefan]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:15 AM, nara said:

Enjoyable episode, but there were definitely unanswered questions.

1. I am sad it was Frank. Now who will call William Duke?

I am sad, too, because I feel that Frank, even though his part was small, played a critical role in this show. Frank not only calls William “Duke,” we the audience got to see William as “Duke” through Frank, if you know what I mean. The William that gets drunk at the pub with the lads. I also thought that Frank made a good foil to Eliza. I really loved the scene where they were all going through the files, and William had to act as a referee between the two. Although Frank was a “pig,” he was someone who William could commiserate with (and had a history with) when Eliza was driving William crazy. I know that a new character can be added to fill this role, but I feel that William’s established friendship with Frank added a lot to the dynamic—it was a plausible explanation as to why William would continue to hang out with this guy even though William experiences some emotional growth through his *relationship* with Eliza.

Now, I guess Frank will become Eliza’s comeback to William whenever William      questions Eliza’s ability to evaluate people.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Nolefan

[Nolefan]

On 2/23/2021 at 2:22 PM, rove4 said:

I'd love to know about William's history: when did he come over from Scotland?, does he have any living family?, how and when did he meet Henry?, 

I think William has been in love with Eliza since they were teenagers. I would like a flashback to Henry and a young William where Henry realizes that young horndog William may be sniffing around his daughter. And this could be the impetus for Henry making it William’s duty to protect Eliza.

[Driad]

When Caine's brother said a posh policeman named Stirling had threatened him, Wellington should have asked for a bit of description, e.g. hair color.

[taanja]

On 2/25/2021 at 2:38 PM, rove4 said:

I didn't know that about All Creatures Great and Small.  I've only watched the first episode so far (have the rest sitting on my dvr).  It reminded me of a book I read a few years back, I think it was called An Irish Country Doctor...or something like that.  Seemed like basically the same premise - new doctor heads to small village to start practice with the curmudgeonly town GP -  except it's a doctor for people, not animals.  

I hadn't even considered the significance of the dinner date for their time period.  I guess I was still viewing it with my modern mind where dinner is just dinner.  

I agree. If the worse happens and there is no second season then at least the show ended well.  

I had to look up Mary Elizabeth Winstead.  I had no idea. Obi Wan??😲

Isn't that Doc Martin? 

yeah unless you were a "loose" woman -- a kiss was kind of a declaration of serious intent. So a dinner date? hell! They were practically engaged to be married!

[pezgirl7]

6 hours ago, taanja said:

So a dinner date? hell! They were practically engaged to be married!

I watched this episode again with that thought in my mind, and it changed the way I look at the characters. They are definitely courting now, even if it's in a bit of an unusual way. It's cute to watch! I was glad that William finally admitted that he had feelings for her, by holding her hand and asking her out to dinner. When she was trying to get him to apologize to Moses, she just kept smiling at him until he did his version of an apology, because he's in love and is probably tired of fighting all the time! And even though they were still teasing each other when he came to her office at the end, she took his arm and they walked away into the sunset, and both looked really happy!

I hope we get a season 2, and that they are still courting and haven't regressed. I read an article where Kate (Eliza) said "You love their bickering, and you love the tension between them. And they have still got a journey to go on in terms of learning about themselves in order to become the couple they have the potential to be!" We've seen the start of that journey, so hopefully we see more of them trying to navigate their new relationship together. It just sucks that we have to wait so long for a potential second season, and that we only have 6 episodes to rewatch!

[Nolefan]

14 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I watched this episode again with that thought in my mind, and it changed the way I look at the characters. They are definitely courting now, even if it's in a bit of an unusual way. It's cute to watch! I was glad that William finally admitted that he had feelings for her, by holding her hand and asking her out to dinner. When she was trying to get him to apologize to Moses, she just kept smiling at him until he did his version of an apology, because he's in love and is probably tired of fighting all the time! And even though they were still teasing each other when he came to her office at the end, she took his arm and they walked away into the sunset, and both looked really happy!

I hope we get a season 2, and that they are still courting and haven't regressed. I read an article where Kate (Eliza) said "You love their bickering, and you love the tension between them. And they have still got a journey to go on in terms of learning about themselves in order to become the couple they have the potential to be!" We've seen the start of that journey, so hopefully we see more of them trying to navigate their new relationship together. It just sucks that we have to wait so long for a potential second season, and that we only have 6 episodes to rewatch!

Totally agree!! I also thought it was interesting that William stated that he wanted them to go to dinner now because they might get into another fight about something totally irrelevant that would cause them to postpone. He said “postpone,” not “cancel.” And Eliza didn’t fight him on this at all. They *both* know that this thing between them is inevitable.

[taanja]

19 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I watched this episode again with that thought in my mind, and it changed the way I look at the characters. They are definitely courting now, even if it's in a bit of an unusual way. It's cute to watch! I was glad that William finally admitted that he had feelings for her, by holding her hand and asking her out to dinner. When she was trying to get him to apologize to Moses, she just kept smiling at him until he did his version of an apology, because he's in love and is probably tired of fighting all the time! And even though they were still teasing each other when he came to her office at the end, she took his arm and they walked away into the sunset, and both looked really happy!

I watched again too.

I noticed though the entire 6 eps when Eliza wants something from William -- she looks at him and smiles in that way she has that he does not seem to be able to resist! It's quite cute. I think he even mumbles "Eliza!" 

I really hope there is a new season but like so many shows I watch-- they have short seasons and then go away for LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG long time and then I forget about them. sigh

[blackwing]

I caught up on all six episodes via DVD, and I really enjoyed this series.  I am a sucker for any kind of historical drama on TV, and I love this Victorian era.  I know it will never happen since I think they are different production companies and about a 20 year difference in time, but I think it would have been great to have seen a Miss Scarlet / Murdoch crossover.

Does anyone else feel a little bit deceived about the title?  I think by calling this show "Miss Scarlet and the Duke", they were trying to make it appear that William is actually a Duke, and maybe they were trying to draw in some of that audience that particularly enjoys watching shows about the nobility or royalty (The Crown, Downton Abbey, Victoria, etc).  Then we find out he isn't actually a duke, they just call him Duke because his surname happens to be Wellington.  I don't think anyone on the show actually called him "The Duke" either, did they?  It was just "Duke".  But I guess "Miss Scarlet and the Duke" has a lot better ring to it than "Miss Scarlet and William".  I would have preferred "Miss Scarlet, Consulting Detective".

Stirling was an ass to William but if I interpreted events correctly, he was completely innocent of the crimes.  Frank used his name to shift blame onto him, and then lured him to the factory and killed him.  I wonder who will fill that position now?  I imagine it will be someone who is just as unreasonable to William as Stirling was.

I think the actress who plays Eliza was Winston Churchill's secretary on "The Crown", the one that got killed by a car on a foggy day.  I've seen Stuart Martin before in "Jamestown" (shame the series ended so abruptly and on a cliffhanger) and "Medici" (shame what happened to him there).  I think he is also in the "Army of Darkness" prequel where he really does look like a young Hugh Jackman.

Looking forward to Season 2.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I think the actress who plays Eliza was Winston Churchill's secretary on "The Crown", the one that got killed by a car on a foggy day. 

She's definitely listed as a cast member for the first season of The Crown.