S22.E22: Eviction #7, Head of Household #8

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, alegtostandon said:

Is Kaycee,  who won over Tyler, not considered a 'person of color'? She is half Filipino. 

Well, Da'Vonne's perception of how the winners reflect society is necessarily her own perception.  She's allowed to apply whatever standard she chooses, I'd say.

That said, Da' might consider Kaycee off-topic, as part of her feelings of oppression and omission appear to stem from the ongoing news of police violence against people of color, and while individual part-Filipino women may have also suffered from this, the current perception is that this is not a continuing issue the way that violence against blacks is perceived to be.  (For which Vanessa Hudgens and Hailee Steinfeld, to name two prominent part-Pinay performers, are doubtless grateful.)

Consider also that Kevin has expressed fears about his not properly representing gay HGs, even though past winners include not only Andy Herren (S15, gay) and Kaycee (lesbian), but Drew Daniel (S5) who presented as "straight" during his season (even having a showmance with Diane Henry)…but was in a relationship with a man when he was arrested during a domestic dispute years afterwards.  Was Drew faking it during S5 the way that Natalie Negrotti (S18) apparently faked her "showmance" with James Huling?  Or did Drew only become aware of his sexuality later on?

If Drew is/was as gay as Andy and Kaycee and (allegedly) Steve, that means the percentage of gay winners is almost 20% (4/21), which is higher than the reported level of gay people in society as a whole.  And yet Kevin still feels pressure to "represent" his community, just as Da'Vonne felt on behalf of African-Americans.

IMO, Kevin and Da'Vonne's feelings are just that…their feelings.  They're entitled to feel what they feel, Kaycee or no Kaycee.  But JMO.

ETA:  I almost forgot that Josh Martinez (S19) is Cuban-American, and some might consider that heritage to class him as a person of color, too.  But Cuban isn't black, and clearly Josh doesn't make Da'Vonne feel any better about the history of black competitors on the show.  So again, I'm willing to give Da' the "her feelings, her rules" pass here.

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, David and Kevin's having both made Jury marks the first time two black men have done so on the same season, and with Da'Vonne, that makes three African-American (or part) Jurors, which is surely a record.  (Was S13 the only other season to even cast three black HGs?  I'd have to think about that.)  So, yay progress, I guess.  Although I'll understand if some may pass on busting out the champagne and streamers here.

(David is, AFAIK, only the third heterosexual black man to reach Jury in the show's history, following Marvin Latimer [S5] and Bryan Ollie [S10; called by his surname to diffentiate him from Brian Hart].  Again, congratulations, even if it does say more about the casting process than anything else, IMO.)

Edited September 26, 2020 by Halting Hex

[BK1978]

I did not know Hailee Steinfeld is part-Filipino.

The one thing that I find interesting when this whole conversation comes up is the fact that a lot of people fail to acknowledge that Kevin is half-black.  Whenever anyone talks about this topic they talk about Bayleigh, David, and Day.  

Now I understand it will probably not happen but if Kevin were to win Big Brother, should he not be considered the first black player to win?  If President Obama, who is mixed, is considered the first black President. Then surely Kevin should be considered the first black winner of Big Brother if he were to pull off that miracle win.

Edited to add: My father would be absolutely thrilled if Kevin won as that's his favorite player this season.  Every time Kevin does a confessional my father smiles and says, "I like this kid, he makes the funniest expressions."  My father is 82 and has a very bad memory so he has no clue what Kevin's name is, but the minute he sees him on TV my father lights up.

Edited September 26, 2020 by BK1978

[Christina]

Here is the summary of the updated scheduling changes someone asked for somewhere - 

 

https://twitter.com/hamsterwatch/status/1309373016376107008

 

[amazingracefan]

18 hours ago, Michichick said:

People pick their favorites for many different reasons.

With the main reason being the edit, and obviously if Julie Chen displays any particular favouritism that will help too.

[Callaphera]

18 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

With the main reason being the edit, and obviously if Julie Chen displays any particular favouritism that will help too.

Well... some of the names in this thread are also frequently seen in the Live Feed Discussion thread. So the feedsters see things that broadcast only viewers don't, sometimes whole stories that just never appear in the show because it isn't the story Production wants to tell, and sometimes feedsters have favourites that seem inexplicable to the broadcast only crowd. There's usually two games of Big Brother happening at the same time: the one you see three times a week and a completely different one that happens 24/7 (...well). Sometimes we can't talk about why we're fans of someone because we're not allowed to talk about the feeds in the episode thread but because we still watch the episodes and have opinions, we kinda dance around it. 

BB19 was pretty infamous for having two different stories. This one a little less so but there's been a handful of things that have happened this season that might make some fans turn against those that the show pushes on us. 

[amazingracefan]

18 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Well... some of the names in this thread are also frequently seen in the Live Feed Discussion thread. So the feedsters see things that broadcast only viewers don't, sometimes whole stories that just never appear in the show because it isn't the story Production wants to tell, and sometimes feedsters have favourites that seem inexplicable to the broadcast only crowd. There's usually two games of Big Brother happening at the same time: the one you see three times a week and a completely different one that happens 24/7 (...well). Sometimes we can't talk about why we're fans of someone because we're not allowed to talk about the feeds in the episode thread but because we still watch the episodes and have opinions, we kinda dance around it. 

BB19 was pretty infamous for having two different stories. This one a little less so but there's been a handful of things that have happened this season that might make some fans turn against those that the show pushes on us. 

And how many watch the feeds compared to how many just watch the episodes?  And everybody watches the episodes and that really magnifies any particular discussion within the house.  The discussion is about who wins AFP and most who vote are casuals anyway.

But getting onto what I would say is the different topic of how objective are those who watch the live feeds.  Well people will still have some bias according to who their favourites are, probably even more with returnees.  Some will be more forgiving, some will read particular intentions into what someone does or says, will highlight some moments over others.  And of course there are blackouts anyway, whether to save for the episodes or not.  Live feed is a broader view than the episodes but there can be disagreements still.  Each individual viewer will be affected by their own external opinions as well, very obvious this year and how that was brought into the house.

Edited September 26, 2020 by amazingracefan

[Callaphera]

28 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

And how many watch the feeds compared to how many just watch the episodes? 

In this thread? A fair amount. Overall? I mean, Cody Nickson won AFP on BB19. A lot of that had to do with Jessica's campaign on social media which is where the feed followers* came in. I'm sure some broadcast only** viewers followed her social media accounts but there was some serious campaigning happening for that particular vote on a lot of platforms. 

 

28 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

And everybody watches the episodes and that really magnifies any particular discussion within the house.

Not everyone watches the episodes. Some people just watch the feeds + the live eviction because they know the broadcast shows can be bullshit. Some people don't watch the show at all because what's the point? Personally I like to see the comparison between what really happened versus what really happened but not everyone does. 

 

28 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

The discussion is about who wins AFP and most who vote are casuals anyway.

See again: Cody Nickson. (I'd argue that Donny Thompson winning AFP in BB16 would be another feed follower led vote. And there were campaigns for Nicole Anthony in BB20, too.) The broadcast only viewers are the larger number however I find just from observation that it's the feed followers who remember to vote every day - hell, we remind each other in the discussion thread. The broadcast only viewers are reminded three times a week versus seven (and depending on the season, people will make dummy accounts to try and stuff the ballot box). I don't think you can say for sure that it's the broadcast only viewers that choose the winner. Also this season is a different beast with corona and stay-at-home quarantines - I wouldn't be surprised if there's a larger than normal number of feed followers this season. Until a certain point, anyway. 

 

28 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

But getting onto what I would say is the different topic of how objective are those who watch the live feeds.

Objectiveness has nothing to do with it. It's called America's Favourite for a reason. You vote your favourite. Or vote strategically. Vote your conscious. Vote third party. Write in votes for the ants. (You can't but it would be fitting for this season.) You're not electing a President, you're handing someone an extra $50K. 

*Feed followers is probably a better term than feedsters - there's a fair amount of people who only follow feed updates on Twitter or Reddit but don't actually watch the feeds. They're kind of a hybrid that falls into both categories.
** I use "broadcast only viewers" because personally I think "casuals" is a shitty name for people who may not want or have time or care to devote a fair amount of their free time to watching these people obsessively pick their noses and not wash their hands after using the bathroom (Enzo, I'm lookin' at you) but that's just me. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Callaphera

[Nashville]

IMHO Kaycee would be considered a Asian winner of BB, just as Josh would be considered a Hispanic winner - but when Day made her statement to the effect of never having seen a BB winner who “looked like her”, I believe she was narrowing her point of discussion down to focus on the lack of any specifically African-American winners in the show’s history.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Nashville
Clarification

[Halting Hex]

I watched zero feeds during BB19.  (Or ever, barring OTT [when the comps were viewable] or the first night of this season, when I knew I wouldn't be spoiled for any comp results.)  I'm pretty sure that I didn't need my delayed BBAD viewing to despise Bobblebeard, as I'd hardly forgotten S18, or the Tiny Dick-tator's tirade where he called Tiffani a, ahem, "Christmas's Unfortunate Natural Tendencies", just because Tiff had dared to talk to him.  Or, more simply, that fucking floatie and the incessant "FRIENDSHIP!" screeching.

IMO, it's a bit presumptuous to assume that feeders have some deeper insight to the game that "casuals" lack.  The show may try to push their producer puppies in the edit, but [horrific] character will out.  From Dickless Donato onwards.

Occasionally, the show messes with the game narrative, and that's a different story.  But BB's attempts to make us love everybody from Social Justice Warrior Amanda to Grieving Grandson Frankie ended up being an Overwhelming No, positive early-season DRs aside.  But JMO.

[BK1978]

6 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Occasionally, the show messes with the game narrative, and that's a different story.  But BB's attempts to make us love everybody from Social Justice Warrior Amanda to Grieving Grandson Frankie ended up being an Overwhelming No, positive early-season DRs aside.  But JMO.

I hated when they tried to make Amanda the voice of reason.  Because she was just as big of an asshole as everyone else.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I hated when they tried to make Amanda the voice of reason.  Because she was just as big of an asshole as everyone else.

Well, Zuckerman did do a passable impersonation of a quasi-decent human being at the very beginning of the season; didn’t last more than a couple of weeks at most, though.

[springbarb]

I have mixed feelings on Day, and not just because of her horrible game play. It's admirable to go in wanting to be the first Black winner, but I don't think going in with a personal goal like that is a good idea--it makes everything about the game more personal than it would be otherwise.

[Mmazeo]

On 9/25/2020 at 2:48 AM, TwistedandBored said:

I thought Day's speech was great and much needed. I will definitely be voting for her as AFP this year. Anyways, I am glad I don't care about the remaining people. 

Why don’t you care about anyone else?

[TwistedandBored]

2 hours ago, Mmazeo said:

Why don’t you care about anyone else?

For many reasons

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

For many reasons

[Mmazeo]

3 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

For many reasons

Wow not one of the remaining HGs interests you at all?  You’re a long time BB fan?  I find that odd. 

[AryasMum]

2 hours ago, Mmazeo said:

Wow not one of the remaining HGs interests you at all?  You’re a long time BB fan?  I find that odd. 

It’s hardly a unique opinion. I don’t care about anyone else, except David.  People I know who watch are the same. 

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Mmazeo said:

Wow not one of the remaining HGs interests you at all?  You’re a long time BB fan?  I find that odd. 

With this cast?  I sure the fuck don’t.  Only reason I’m still following is for the process, and to keep my snark skills sharp.  Excellence like this doesn’t just happen overnight, yaknow....

[Wandering Snark]

9 hours ago, Nashville said:

Only reason I’m still following is for the process, and to keep my snark skills sharp.  Excellence like this doesn’t just happen overnight, yaknow....

You gotta keep your snark hand strong! Heh

[Mmazeo]

Enzo, Cody, Memphis playing masterfully. 

[30 Helens]

14 hours ago, Mmazeo said:

Enzo, Cody, Memphis playing masterfully. 

That’s a matter of opinion. There are pros and cons to their game play that I won’t go into because much of it isn’t covered in the broadcast episodes. But I believe the question was not who is a good game player, but who is an interesting player, and that is a much more difficult question to answer. The interesting players have left the building.

[Mmazeo]

10 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

That’s a matter of opinion. There are pros and cons to their game play that I won’t go into because much of it isn’t covered in the broadcast episodes. But I believe the question was not who is a good game player, but who is an interesting player, and that is a much more difficult question to answer. The interesting players have left the building.

Of all the players eliminated I think Janelle and Ian would’ve made things most interesting. The rest were not very good. 

I guess good gameplay is interesting to me. Why I correlated the two.