S04.E09: Lowkey Trying

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Hera said:

It hadn't occurred to me until I read this that there's a similarity in the way that both Lawrence and Molly treat Issa: they both expect her to be the one to go out on a limb. In order to meet up with Molly, Issa had to be the one to reach out and state her desire to see Molly, despite their fight, which allowed Molly the choice between gracing Issa with her presence, or telling her, "No, and fuck you for asking." And then Lawrence kind of did the same thing here—he didn't want to say that he wants them to be exclusive again before he heard her say it. And I assume that is what they both want, because in my experience, people aren't afraid to state that they prefer to keep things casual.

I had an ex who did this to me. I had been trying for weeks to figure out how to end things, and then he floated the idea, clearly expecting me to say something like, "What? NO! You and I are forever!" instead of, "Yeah, I agree."

"We should break up," is a declarative statement that ends things. "Maybe we should break up?" is either a test (and the person on the receiving end is better off "failing" it and getting out of the relationship) or it's a cowardly way to end things while putting the blame on the other person. Either way, it's manipulative.

That is awesome. If people want to gameplay instead of having good thoughtful conversation then they deserve to get a little egg on their face.

In other words, don’t put “Maybe we should end it” out there unless you are truly prepared for the other person not to take your bait and agree.

[RealReality]

On 6/7/2020 at 10:03 PM, DearEvette said:

Yet another episode showing Issa's growth.  I am here for it.

I am not sure how I feel about her and Lawrence, but they seem happy.  I am glad that:  1- he told her he and Condola talked and it is definitely over and 2- Her telling him about Nathan.  Look at them acting all evolved and grown.

Molly.  I am over Molly so hard this season.  I thought for sure after she mis-sent Issa that text and she followed Issa out that we'd finally get a hard conversation.  But Issa is right, Molly does not want to put in the effort.  Her therapist and Andrew are both in their own way trying to gently move her toward owning her own actions toward people and even then she won't budge.  And how fucking terrible it is for Issa -- who is feeling good about herself and building her own glow --  up to hear from her best friend that she is no longer a good fit?  Fuck Molly.

Can't lie, though, that guess the height game sounds kinda lame but in action looked fun.  We had a drinking game like that in college called 'questions' where you could only answer a question with another question and you had a time limit (6 seconds) and if you messed up you had to drink.  The questions could be really innocuous 'why is the sky blue?' but as the night went on and we got drunker the questions got more personal 'so why did you try to hit on my man last week?'  Ah good times!

Ahmal has overtaken Chad for best male comedy performance in this.  I love how his first question to Issa was 'Is Stanley dead?'  He kills me!

Think about it, that text was heart breaking and once again Molly has some fucking nerve.  

They were having a great conversation, back to being friends, in the groove - to later hear that was apparently all Molly being "benevolent" and "trying" would have broken my heart.  

Is she saying she didn't enjoy their brunch?  

And the condescending patronizing nature of it all.  "See, I'm trying with her".

Bitch, really?  The only person who is going to be hurt when you're friendless is you!  Don't act like you're doing Andrew a favor by having a friend!  And why was she miserable, it looked like they were all having a good time.  Is her happiness a gift to everyone else?  Ugh.  

I'm disappointed we haven't seen Tiffany or amanda take Molly to task.  At this point, everyone in her life is just enabling her. 

 

ETA - who the hell is Amanda, I'm so mad I'm just making up people who need to tell Molly off. 

I meant Tiffany and Kelli should be taking Molly to task.  But if someone named Amanda wants to get in on it too, more power to her

Edited June 9, 2020 by RealReality

[sereion]

I was hoping Issa wouldn't extend the olive branch to Molly, because I knew it would end badly.  I have been rooting  for Molly since the beginning, but now I've washed my hands with her.  Therapy was a waste  of time; she still lacks the insight on how she treats people, and  she is unwilling accept responsibility for what happened at the block party--and had the nerve of her to cut Issa off, and expect her to grovel--Girl, bye! Issa is better off without her; it was on the verge of toxicity. 

Andrew has the patience of Job, but that's wearing thin; I think their break-up is inevitable, and it will be Molly's epiphany. Unfortunately, it may be too late to repair the relationships she ruined, and she will end up alone and bitter.

I was disappointed to find that the opening scene with Issa and Lawrence was real; I reeaally do NOT want them together, but I can't deny their chemistry. I do like them as friends.

Finally,  I am glad that Nathan confided in Issa of his bipolar diagnosis, but bruh, you could have kept the sista in the loop. He got Issa all f'd up when he ghosted her last season, and who's to say he'll do it again when he has a manic episode? Now I do, however, like their chemistry as well.

Edited June 9, 2020 by sereion

[Adgirl]

Quote

It hadn't occurred to me until I read this that there's a similarity in the way that both Lawrence and Molly treat Issa: they both expect her to be the one to go out on a limb.

I think there's a difference with Lawrence--he's the injured party so I can understand his treading carefully and waiting for Issa to ask the difficult/awkward questions about where they are.

[LuvMyShows]

14 hours ago, sereion said:

I have been rooting  for Molly since the beginning, but now I've washed my hands with her.  Therapy was a waste  of time; she still lacks the insight on how she treats people, and  she is unwilling accept responsibility for what happened at the block party--and had the nerve of her to cut Issa off, and expect her to grovel--Girl, bye! Issa is better off without her; it was on the verge of toxicity. 

The way Molly spoke at therapy -- more than once saying that Issa is her best friend == was inconsistent with how she then went on to treat issa.  I don't think she was being insincere at therapy.  So was it just that Issa didn't grovel enough?  I don't know.  But the way she spoke in therapy did not seem consistent with her comment about them outgrowing the friendship.

[scrb]

Speaking of Kelli, they ghosted her the last few episodes.

And Chad only had a cameo, talking about Bradley Cooper.  Why does a black man have that much of an opinion on Bradley Cooper?

The Issa and Molly-centric episodes were fine but the gang was a strength of the show in previous seasons.

 

[qtpye]

27 minutes ago, scrb said:

Speaking of Kelli, they ghosted her the last few episodes.

And Chad only had a cameo, talking about Bradley Cooper.  Why does a black man have that much of an opinion on Bradley Cooper?

The Issa and Molly-centric episodes were fine but the gang was a strength of the show in previous seasons.

 

At this point, I would love it if Kelli replaced Molly as Issa’s best friend.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

The way Molly spoke at therapy -- more than once saying that Issa is her best friend == was inconsistent with how she then went on to treat issa.  I don't think she was being insincere at therapy.  So was it just that Issa didn't grovel enough?  I don't know.  But the way she spoke in therapy did not seem consistent with her comment about them outgrowing the friendship.

That was so weird because I was surprised to hear her say that issa was her best friend.  But why? If it takes this much effort just to be friendly with her than how is that her best friend?  

I'm not sure what it means.  Perhaps Molly is recognizing that everyone around her is subtly telling her she was wrong and so she did need for issa to grovel to prove to everyone else that she was right and everything she did was right and issa was wrong.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The Wine Down

 

[ElsbethTascioni]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:43 PM, LuvMyShows said:

The way Molly spoke at therapy -- more than once saying that Issa is her best friend == was inconsistent with how she then went on to treat issa.  I don't think she was being insincere at therapy.  So was it just that Issa didn't grovel enough?  I don't know.  But the way she spoke in therapy did not seem consistent with her comment about them outgrowing the friendship.

I had a friend like that. She didn't want to admit to herself that she was the "bad guy", so she told herself that she cared about me, was my BFF, like a sister, etc. When it came to actually having my back, and being a good friend to me, she wasn't willing to inconvenience herself. I think it's part of the dynamic when you have someone who takes another person for granted. She sees herself as a gift to Issa, and when Issa wasn't doing well and was kissing her ass, she was willing to grace her with friendship. In her mind she probably doesn't even realize that she's being this way.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:43 PM, LuvMyShows said:

The way Molly spoke at therapy -- more than once saying that Issa is her best friend == was inconsistent with how she then went on to treat issa.  I don't think she was being insincere at therapy.  So was it just that Issa didn't grovel enough?  I don't know.  But the way she spoke in therapy did not seem consistent with her comment about them outgrowing the friendship.

I agree. If you are speaking about your best friend in the present tense, how can you justify the fact that you and your best friend haven't spoken in weeks? If that's your best friend, then I'd hate to see how you treat anyone who isn't your best friend.

I think that Molly has these assigned roles in her head and she's been sticking with the "Issa IS my best friend" narrative despite all evidence to the contrary because she wasn't really ready to let go of that relationship (and I really think she only made that comment to Issa about them outgrowing each other not because she truly believed it but to elicit a reaction from Issa in an attempt to force Issa to beg Molly to still be her friend).

The problem is that she also wasn't ready to acknowledge that the other assigned roles in her head (Molly as the successful one who graces Issa with her presence, Issa as the fuckup who needs Molly's help) have changed. Molly isn't ready to see Issa as an equal. She still sees herself as better than Issa. Just like in romantic relationships where one person thinks they're the superior one, Molly thinks of herself the same way in her friendship with Issa (which means Issa is supposed to be grateful that Molly deigns to be friends with her).

[lasu]

I don't know if I'm over thinking this since no one else has mentioned it, but I wonder if anything would have changed if Issa hadn't picked up the check at brunch.  And not only did she pay for both, she acknowledged she owed Molly for tons of meals, with the implication not only would she be digging further in that hole, she would be sitting down to future tables as an equal.  I don't think Molly is sitting around thinking, "Fuck Issa for having enough money to pay for brunch, I'm moving on!"  But dynamics changing in relationships can be TOUGH, even for well adjusted people.  But a lot of people like to be around someone worse than themselves, because it makes their own level of messy seem not as bad.  So before, Molly may have been thinking, "Hmmh, I'm messy, but I'm not Issa messy."  But if Issa starts getting it together, it becomes, "Wait, I'm AS messy as Issa!" and then if you don't watch it, "Wait, is Issa thinking she's messy but at least she's not as messy as ME?"  Sometimes people are extremely resistant to other people's positive changes, even when it's positive for them too!  It seems super counter-intuitive, for example, for the spouse of an alcoholic to be threatened by her husband getting sober.  But it can be scary!  If your primary role in your life is taking care of your husband's messes, it can be super disorienting to no longer be needed in that way.  And if there is insecurity, it can start to feel like, "If they don't NEED me, will they still WANT me?"  

So, to answer my own original point, yes, I'm overthinking it.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, lasu said:

I don't know if I'm over thinking this since no one else has mentioned it, but I wonder if anything would have changed if Issa hadn't picked up the check at brunch.  And not only did she pay for both, she acknowledged she owed Molly for tons of meals, with the implication not only would she be digging further in that hole, she would be sitting down to future tables as an equal.  I don't think Molly is sitting around thinking, "Fuck Issa for having enough money to pay for brunch, I'm moving on!"  But dynamics changing in relationships can be TOUGH, even for well adjusted people.  But a lot of people like to be around someone worse than themselves, because it makes their own level of messy seem not as bad.  So before, Molly may have been thinking, "Hmmh, I'm messy, but I'm not Issa messy."  But if Issa starts getting it together, it becomes, "Wait, I'm AS messy as Issa!" and then if you don't watch it, "Wait, is Issa thinking she's messy but at least she's not as messy as ME?"  Sometimes people are extremely resistant to other people's positive changes, even when it's positive for them too!  It seems super counter-intuitive, for example, for the spouse of an alcoholic to be threatened by her husband getting sober.  But it can be scary!  If your primary role in your life is taking care of your husband's messes, it can be super disorienting to no longer be needed in that way.  And if there is insecurity, it can start to feel like, "If they don't NEED me, will they still WANT me?"  

So, to answer my own original point, yes, I'm overthinking it.  

There are people who need to be needed not because they like to help but because it automatically gives them an upper hand. Molly seems incapable of looking at Issa as an equal. She seems threatened by Issa’s success and is pretending that Issa contacting Andrew for talent to perform at the block party  is some sort of high level betrayal. At this point, if Andrew breaks up with her, she will probably blame Issa rather than look at her own actions.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

@lasu I don't think you're overthinking it at all. Molly and Issa have established roles with each other. One of Issa's roles with Molly is Broke Friend which makes Molly the Not Broke Friend. Molly is used to getting to feel magnanimous and superior when she picks up the check because the cost of Issa's meal is chump change to a lawyer.

But Issa offering to pick up the check changed that. I think Molly interpreted it the way the Mandelbaums perceived everything that the Seinfelds did: "YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME?"

I think that Issa's intention was not to show that her status has improved but to say, "I know you have gifted me a lot of meals throughout the years and I want to be as generous to you as you have been to me." Unfortunately, I don't think Molly saw it that way on any level.

[lasu]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think that Issa's intention was not to show that her status has improved but to say, "I know you have gifted me a lot of meals throughout the years and I want to be as generous to you as you have been to me." Unfortunately, I don't think Molly saw it that way on any level.

Yes.  It seemed crazy obvious to me Issa would pick up the check, when the main accusation lobbed against her is that she uses people.  So even to your point, I think she was trying to show Molly, "Hey, look, not only do I know you've done a lot for me, I don't want you to think I'm using you to get free things I can't afford, so I want to show you I'm not going to take that position anymore and I'm going to be your equal.  Which is what you would THINK someone who accuses you of being a user would want.

All that said, I actually still really like Molly, but I think it's because I have a soft spot for people who ruin their own happiness.  I just root for them to get better and be happy.

[DearEvette]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But Issa offering to pick up the check changed that. I think Molly interpreted it the way the Mandelbaums perceived everything that the Seinfelds did: "YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME?"

I agree with what you're saying re:  Molly having these defined roles in her head wrt to her and Issa.  But don't think the check thing translated necessarily to Molly thinking Issa being better than Molly, but that it is yet another example of Issa moving away from one of her defined roles.  In this case, her role has always  to been to sit there broke and let Molly pick up the check. 

Issa showing that she can pick up the check was just the latest in a long line of Issa breaking her role and that panicked Molly even more. 

Molly first started feeling stank toward Issa when she noticed how close Issa and Condola had gotten.  That was her first clue that Issa was moving away from one of her roles where Molly was Issa's only friend.

Other examples of Issa breaking role: her block party being hella successful -- hence Molly choosing right then to manufacture an argument, she had to bring that success down.  And of course,  Issa not apologizing first. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by DearEvette

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I agree with what you're saying re:  Molly having these defined roles in her head wrt to her and Issa.  But don't think the check thing translated necessarily to Molly thinking Issa being better than Molly, but that it is yet another example of Issa moving away from one of her defined roles.  In this case, her role has always  to been to sit there broke and let Molly pick up the check. 

Issa showing that she can pick up the check was just the latest in a long line of Issa breaking her role and that panicked Molly even more. 

Molly first started feeling stank toward Issa when she noticed how close Issa and Condola had gotten.  That was her first clue that Issa was moving away from one of her roles where Molly was Issa's only friend.

Other examples of Issa breaking role: her block party being hella successful -- hence Molly choosing right then to manufacture an argument, she had to bring that success down.  And of course,  Issa not apologizing first. 

All of these things are challenges to Molly's status as being "the better one" in the friendship. 

Even with this nastiness, Issa was still the first one to reach out and act maturely this episode.

Honestly, Molly does not deserve a friend like Issa.

 

[nameless slob]

Fuck Molly.

[Stardancer Supreme]

I only have a quibble with Nanceford.  He came back into Issa's life a few months ago according to the show timeline.  He and Issa have been hanging around each other and his ghosting episode just now came up?  I would have asked what was up the moment I moved back into his orbit. 

Molly's whole life is about to blow up. She kinda deserves it though.

[RealReality]

8 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I only have a quibble with Nanceford.  He came back into Issa's life a few months ago according to the show timeline.  He and Issa have been hanging around each other and his ghosting episode just now came up?  I would have asked what was up the moment I moved back into his orbit. 

Molly's whole life is about to blow up. She kinda deserves it though.

I wouldn't blame issa for being too stunned by his beauty to ask the smart questions.  TSA bae was a nice guy, but Nathan is like....just pretty.  

[DearEvette]

On 6/13/2020 at 11:18 AM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I only have a quibble with Nanceford.  He came back into Issa's life a few months ago according to the show timeline.  He and Issa have been hanging around each other and his ghosting episode just now came up?  I would have asked what was up the moment I moved back into his orbit. 

I'm betting Issa was too distracted with all the prep with her block party to care about him ghosting her at the time.  Remember, he reached out right after she found out about the headliner dropping out.  So after all the stuff that went down (him stepping in to hook her up, all the work for he block party, Molly not acting right, Condola ghosting her ) this might have just been the first time they've had to get back to that difficult convo.  Also it might have been the first time he made a 'more than friends' move on her which made the convo necessary.

[link417]

On 6/9/2020 at 11:49 PM, qtpye said:

At this point, I would love it if Kelli replaced Molly as Issa’s best friend.

 

On 6/12/2020 at 7:38 PM, nameless slob said:

Fuck Molly.

I wish I could like these comments multiple times — I am not here for Molly (never really was, tbh), and there has been way too little Kelli.