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S04.E09: Lowkey Trying

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Issa considers doing Nathan a favor; Dr. Rhonda and Andrew ask Molly to consider a different approach in dealing with people who have wronged her.

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Original air date: 6/7/20

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Well, I'm off Team Molly at this point.  Molly just doesn't want to try.  She can admit that there's a problem, but won't put in the real effort to fix it.  She just runs or shuts people out.  Whatever Issa's issues are, at least she's making an attempt to reconcile.  But you can't do that with a brick wall.  Molly's idea of reconciliation is Issa asking for her forgiveness.

It's obvious that Andrew is getting fed up with Molly.  He's been supportive and non-judgmental, and subtly trying to coax her and Issa back together, but enough is enough.  Victor may be an asshole, but Andrew can't cut his brother out of his life, and Molly just wants to act like Victor doesn't exist.  If Molly refuses to compromise, Andrew's going to call it quits.

Whether Nathan and Issa get back together, he's a good guy.  He genuinely appreciates Issa and how she inspired him to be better, the way that he inspired her.  I hope this isn't the last we see of him.  I'm glad they shed some light on his character.

I think Lawrence definitely got hired in SF, and he's trying to figure out how to tell Issa.  They both have their shit together, but that doesn't mean they should be getting back together just yet.  

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Run, Andrew, run!  I don't know why he hasn't yet.  He's an otherwise sensible guy so he surely must see how difficult building a life with Molly will be.  I don't even know if therapy is helping her.

She doesn't have to completely get over the conversation she had with Victor immediately but she does have to find a way to spend time with him for Andrew's sake.

And I really felt for Issa when she was trying to regain her friendship with Molly when she got that text. 

Speaking of rigid, perhaps that's me when it comes to what happened when Nathan went to Houston.  I appreciate that they're keeping his mental health issues at the forefront but I kind of wanted to roll my eyes with his reaction to Issa dating Lawrence again. I get that he was bipolar but he still did what he did.  Maybe he'd be a bit more understanding of reasons--he had reasons he ghosted, Issa had reasons she cheated, Lawrence had reasons he was the way he was when Issa cheated and both Issa and Lawrence have reasons why they're trying again.  Perhaps her choices deserve a bit of a benefit of the doubt even if they don't end up working out?

It's also feels like this Nathan thing came out of nowhere.  Or at least, it feels like they're trying to create a love triangle but we didn't really see the build up between Issa and Nathan.  They had a few short phone calls.  Then we got a brief glimpse of them hanging out when Molly and Andrew were on vacation.  And now it's like they both thought they might be going somewhere?

Edited by Irlandesa
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8 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

Lord, is Molly just so effing unlikable.

No kidding. A recurring theme in the last few episode threads has been her lack of self-awareness, and boy was it ever on display tonight. When she was talking to Andrew about her brunch with Issa, I found myself wishing (and not for the first time) that he had pointed out to her that she doesn't have the right to forbid anyone to reach out to him—especially about business. It really annoys me that we've gone this long without someone challenging her on that.

I also second you on hoping Andrew ends things with her. It may be my own wishful thinking, but it seemed like they were laying the groundwork for that: she won't make up with his brother, she unilaterally changed their take-out plans, and he clearly doesn't think that she's making a good faith effort to fix things with Issa (because she isn't).

1 minute ago, Amethyst said:

Molly's idea of reconciliation is Issa asking for her forgiveness.

Exactly. To Molly, "meeting Issa halfway" appears to mean being willing to tolerate her presence.

As for Issa, I appreciated that she put her cards on the table, telling Lawrence about Nathan and Nathan about Lawrence. I felt bad for Nathan, both for the mental heath issues and also for finding out that he may have missed his chance with Issa, but at the same time, I also felt a little bad for Issa being made to feel like an asshole for not intuiting that he had bipolar disorder and not waiting around for him to get it under control. I don't think those are reasonable expectations, given the information she had at the time, and especially since they were never in an exclusive relationship in the first place. I don't blame Nathan for being disappointed about it, but Issa didn't do anything wrong. Helping her get in touch with Andrew doesn't mean he's owed another shot at a romantic relationship.

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I think it's interesting that Andrew will be speaking Chinese on the phone and when Molly walks in, he switches to English and gets off the phone. That's happened in three episodes, including this one. 

Edited by HolmesUltimateQu
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Awwwwww....I am loving evolved Issa and Lawrence.  That damned Condoleeza better stay wherever the hell she's gone with her bougie-ass weird friends.  

Molly really is one miserable bitch.  Seriously.  Yvonne Orji must hate having to play such an unlikeable character.

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

It's also feels like this Nathan thing came out of nowhere.  Or at least, it feels like they're trying to create a love triangle but we didn't really see the build up between Issa and Nathan. 

I think this is supposed to show just how much she was vibin' with Nathan before he disappeared.  She really seems to be completely at ease around him and he gets her---they get each other.  So of course his reappearance is going to be just in time for a probable job offer for Lawrence and a cliff-hanger for us.  Damn it, man!

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Yet another episode showing Issa's growth.  I am here for it.

I am not sure how I feel about her and Lawrence, but they seem happy.  I am glad that:  1- he told her he and Condola talked and it is definitely over and 2- Her telling him about Nathan.  Look at them acting all evolved and grown.

Molly.  I am over Molly so hard this season.  I thought for sure after she mis-sent Issa that text and she followed Issa out that we'd finally get a hard conversation.  But Issa is right, Molly does not want to put in the effort.  Her therapist and Andrew are both in their own way trying to gently move her toward owning her own actions toward people and even then she won't budge.  And how fucking terrible it is for Issa -- who is feeling good about herself and building her own glow --  up to hear from her best friend that she is no longer a good fit?  Fuck Molly.

Can't lie, though, that guess the height game sounds kinda lame but in action looked fun.  We had a drinking game like that in college called 'questions' where you could only answer a question with another question and you had a time limit (6 seconds) and if you messed up you had to drink.  The questions could be really innocuous 'why is the sky blue?' but as the night went on and we got drunker the questions got more personal 'so why did you try to hit on my man last week?'  Ah good times!

Ahmal has overtaken Chad for best male comedy performance in this.  I love how his first question to Issa was 'Is Stanley dead?'  He kills me!

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11 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Awwwwww....I am loving evolved Issa and Lawrence.  That damned Condoleeza better stay wherever the hell she's gone with her bougie-ass weird friends.  

I love it too—especially Issa's deadpan, "No, you've made you loyalties clear," to Lawrence singing the Rice-A-Roni theme song at the end of their Rice-A-Roni vs. Hamburger Helper bit. To be fair, it's clear that Nathan is also up for Issa's particular brand of goofiness, but I think he's less of a dork than both Issa and Lawrence. Lawrence also got me with, "The song is by your friend Nathan, or is the artist called 'My Friend Nathan'? Damn, I sound old," at the start of the episode.

Alas, Condola is mentioned too much for her to be a non-factor going forward.

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7 minutes ago, Hera said:

Lawrence also got me with, "The song is by your friend Nathan, or is the artist called 'My Friend Nathan'? Damn, I sound old," at the start of the episode.

Oh me too. I loved that line because I felt that line.

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1 hour ago, heavysnaxx said:

Big props to the show for how they've incorporated Nathan's health issue - it's a fact of his life that he's saying is still taking time to learn how to manage and nothing about it felt Very Special Episode.

Lord, is Molly just so effing unlikable. She only thing she was trying to do was ungraciously allow Issa to take all the risks and then criticize her performance. Nothing was enough. I was yelling, "RUN GIRL!" to Issa when she got that text and was so glad she walked away. Everything Issa did with her was done in good faith and this so-called best friend is colder and crueler than a decent person is to a stranger.

I'm seriously hoping Andrew tells her it's not working out because, as Molly said about putting just a little effort in figuring out how to have a civil relationship with his brother, "Why would you even want me to do something I don't want to do?"

If I were Andrew, that would have been my, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them," moment. Not to mention Molly unilaterally changing the Indian take-out plan. How to lose a guy in 10 episodes, y'all.

I'm guessing Molly has no awareness that some people are very empathetic and willing to meet others more than halfway, but if hurt/insulted deeply enough, are DONE. Issa had a pretty DONE look in her eyes at the end. I support that.

Loved that I didn't know if the Issa/Lawrence couch love montage was real or imaginary at the beginning. It was kind of a callback to when they'd busted up and we saw this whole future that was Issa's imagination.

 

1 hour ago, mrsbagnet said:

Color me shocked that Issa and Lawrence are hanging together and sexing. She did go into it with her eyes wide open, though. If Lawrence does get a job offer, I hope it means she will let the relationship go. I'm not really up for watching a long-distance relationship. @heavysnaxx, I thought it was a fantasy sequence, too.

I had to pause the show twice due to awkwardness -- during the lunch with Molly and when she was about to tell Nathan about Lawrence. I saw Nathan getting close to her, and I thought "Oh no!" 

I realized recently that Kendrick Sampson kinda looks like my cousin, so now I'm uncomfortable thinking of him as attractive.

She's not going to get very far trying to dodge Victor. She thinks Andrew's going to stick with her and take her side by default, but that is his brother, and Molly is not his wife. Who does she think is going to get dropped in this scenario? There were, what, 3 times in this episode where he tried extra-gently to tell her she was wrong, and she didn't want to hear it. That's going to get old.

How did Molly expect Issa to react? You tell your best friend that you don't fit into each other's lives, and you get bugged because she takes you at your word? Did Molly want to have a debate about the friendship's value out there on the sidewalk? 

Loved the scene with Ahmal and his extra spicy food. 😄

 

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Well, I'm off Team Molly at this point.  Molly just doesn't want to try.  She can admit that there's a problem, but won't put in the real effort to fix it.  She just runs or shuts people out.  Whatever Issa's issues are, at least she's making an attempt to reconcile.  But you can't do that with a brick wall.  Molly's idea of reconciliation is Issa asking for her forgiveness.

It's obvious that Andrew is getting fed up with Molly.  He's been supportive and non-judgmental, and subtly trying to coax her and Issa back together, but enough is enough.  Victor may be an asshole, but Andrew can't cut his brother out of his life, and Molly just wants to act like Victor doesn't exist.  If Molly refuses to compromise, Andrew's going to call it quits.

Whether Nathan and Issa get back together, he's a good guy.  He genuinely appreciates Issa and how she inspired him to be better, the way that he inspired her.  I hope this isn't the last we see of him.  I'm glad they shed some light on his character.

I think Lawrence definitely got hired in SF, and he's trying to figure out how to tell Issa.  They both have their shit together, but that doesn't mean they should be getting back together just yet.  

Lord, I actually used to like Molly. Now I can barely stand her and cheers for Issa to run far away.

Molly’s idea of reconciliation is Issa begging for her forgiveness while she admits to no faults of her own.

Then she wants the friendship to go back to status quo where Molly is the benevolent queen and Issa is the fuck up friend. Molly will sometimes bestow niceties on Issa, like paying for brunches or Moroccan dinners, not just to be nice but to also assert that she is more successful and has more money.

I really do not know how someone could be so self centered. She is obviously the star of her family, with both of her brothers being fuck ups, but at Thanksgiving, it seemed like that they had more sense than her.

She is used to people groveling for her forgiveness so that makes her quite entitled.

Molly does not want to admit the truth of the situation. She is not angry that Issa contacted Andrew supposedly behind her back (like Andrew isn’t a grown ass man) but that Issa was so successful without her.

Molly needs Issa to be worshipful of her. She knows she is not going to get that from Kelly and Tiffany. She is beginning to realize (very slowly) that a successful relationship will take some compromises in her part, though Andrew has been more than patient. This means that no self respecting man is going to put her up on a pedestal, either, so this is what she needs from Issa.

She wants Issa to grovel and quite frankly, Issa deserves better.

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This is nothing like Molly of the previous seasons.  She became a fan favorite because she was anything but entitled, short-fused, ungenerous, believing her shit don't stink.

I understand that maybe they wanted to introduce some tension in the series but it seems like they really created a completely opposite persona for one of the main characters of the show.

Unless we missed something in the previous seasons to indicate Molly could be like this.

Her BFF and she's just going to throw it away, without other friends?  Her longest relationship makes her willing to turn her back on people that easily?  Lawrence's brother isn't as important to Molly as Issa has been but if she's going to be with Lawrence, she can't decide after meeting him once that she doesn't want anything to do with him.

Old Molly wouldn't be like that.

Going into that brunch they both had serious agendas.  Molly wanted a real apology from Issa and Issa wanted to be able to talk to her about serious things, since there was no other friend at that level.

But they keep it casual and light and they do that for the impromptu dinner until it gets real.

BTW, do people really try to message each other about someone else who's in the room?

Nathan shitting on Lawrence when he finds out that Issa is seeing him again is typical.  But also ironic, if he calls Lawrence "sometime-y" yet he kind of dropped out too, even if he has a legitimate reason.

It can't be easy to be in a relationship with a bipolar person.

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5 minutes ago, scrb said:

Unless we missed something in the previous seasons to indicate Molly could be like this.

Molly this season is definitely next level.  But this isn't completely out of character.

During this episode, Issa had that imaginary-fake out moment of calling Molly and talking to her about getting back with Lawrence where Molly unloaded on her in the car -- that was a call back to the pilot episode when Molly unleashed on Issa in the car after the Broken Pussy rap.  She blamed Issa for causing a new potential (the Hertz guy) to leave her.

And when Issa off handedly suggested Molly might benefit from therapy, Molly got mad at Issa, brooded all night and then blew up at her and they had a brutal argument then.  She froze Issa out after that argument refusing to answer any of Issa's calls.  It wasn't til  Issa then defended her against Kelli and TIffany that Molly thawed again toward Issa.

So Molly blowing up off little things isn't out of character, but it has never lasted this long.  Of course, Issa made the first move both those times though.

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17 minutes ago, scrb said:

This is nothing like Molly of the previous seasons.  She became a fan favorite because she was anything but entitled, short-fused, ungenerous, believing her shit don't stink.

I understand that maybe they wanted to introduce some tension in the series but it seems like they really created a completely opposite persona for one of the main characters of the show.

Unless we missed something in the previous seasons to indicate Molly could be like this.

I wondered if I was being too hard on her so just rewatched a bunch of old episodes. Nope, this is still Classic Molly.

Season 1, when Issa had her fundraiser, Molly behaved just as badly. Very similar to what's going on here. Same episode where she refers to Issa's teacher colleague using a racial term. Issa calls her - there's that reaching out thing - and Molly is cold and haughty on the phone. I found other instances throughout the seasons. The difference is that we - like Issa - have focused on the good moments. But the damage Molly does has a cumulative effect and now it just seems worse.

ETA: @DearEvette, you beat me to it!

Edited by heavysnaxx
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Wow, that was too real. Who hasn't met a Molly, who swears up and down that they are ready and willing to talk but always treats you like a bug in their ice cream? She's finally achieved in a little success in the only area she felt herself lacking (relationships) and promptly gassed herself up as unable to do any wrong. It'll be interesting to see what Tiffany and Kelli do, because I can totally see Molly trying to stake her claim that they are "her" friends and that Issa needs to roll on.

Nathan was salty, but it was a honest reminder that Lawrence has historically been trash. I'm not even convinced he properly cut things off with Corolla. He's gotten over his pride just enough to go back to what Lawrence always does, seek out something comfortable and unchallenging. 

Andrew spends most of his screentime wincing or raising his eyebrows, doesn't seem like a good sign for their relationship. 

At this point, I am shocked Molly's therapist hasn't fired herself rather than deal with Molly's bs. Her rates must be stupendous! 

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Oh, I don't think the 'nani got Lawrence confused at all, Issa. If he's still "talking" to Condola he knows exactly what he's doing: playing two women who know each other against each other, because he can.

Wait, I don't think Issa gave Lawrence the impression she was still sleeping with Nathan. I don't get why she was trying to equivocate with his situation with Condola.

A light-skinned mimosa. 🤗
 
Guacamole looks like baby food? That's it, Nathan is cancelled. 😉

Directed by Kerry Washington. Interesting.

I'm starting to feel like Molly is scared of Issa, or at least scared of the importance Issa had in her life. She may not feel she can "have" both Issa and Andrew, like there's not enough of her to go around. Meanwhile, I liked how attentive Andrew was to Molly's feelings when they were kicking it with Nathan and Issa. Ditto comments upthread, the strain is starting to show though, especially since Molly won't give an inch on his brother. Push comes to shove, Andrew likely won't choose her over his family and she seems oblivious to the position she's putting him in.

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BTW, do people really try to message each other about someone else who's in the room?

Yes, they do. I've been the person being messaged about while in the room and they weren't trying too hard to hide it.

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What did Molly expect Issa to say after hitting her with "we don't fit anymore"? It's like Molly wanted Issa to keep fighting for the friendship after Issa already pointed out she was the only one trying. That was a really well-executed scene. Heartbreaking to see their friendship collapse. Not sure how they come back from this, if they do, or what it will look like moving forward. 

"Do you want to be right, or do you want to be in a relationship." Bloop! 

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7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Because of who Andrew is, I tend to see this as another example of his thoughtfulness. There'd be nothing wrong with him speaking a foreign language on the phone to someone else but the fact that he switches to a language she understands so she knows what he's saying even though she's not a part of the conversation is a nice gesture.

One of my best friends is Iranian and she does this. I'll be meeting up with her and her sister and they'll be talking about, like, their nephew, and as I walk up they'll switch to English. I'm not really part of the conversation (even though I know all their nephews, heh), but they still make sure I'm included.

Molly is really fucking up with Andrew. If your man's brother makes that effort to make amends, you meet him where he is. Like, that's his brother. He's not going to pick Molly over his brother. And "Why would you want me to do something I don't want to do?" is such a middle school attitude. Because that's LIFE, Molly, damn! When I was a kid and I told my parents I didn't want to do something, they would say "Too bad." And if the thing you don't want to do is meet your man's brother halfway, he's probably not going to be your man anymore. Her therapist was right on - do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

Molly being mad that Issa was ending the conversation after she told them they weren't a good fit is like when you get dumped and the person wants to tell you all the reasons they don't want to be with you. There is no benefit to the dumped person to have that conversation. The key takeaway is "we're over," so ... we're over. Dassit! Bye! She totally wanted Issa to grovel, which is bullshit.

I laughed at lot at the celebrity heights game because some friends and I did a version of this with celebrity ages. 

Nanceford, Nanceford ... I'm torn. They both seem like good matches for Issa. I like that Nathan and Issa do seem to bring out good things in each other - he encouraged her with the block party and she inspired him to buy his business (which is amazing). Both Nathan and Lawrence get Issa's brand of corny humor, which is cool. The same friend I mentioned above is married to a man with bipolar disorder, but he already had a medication and therapy regimen that was working for him when they got together, and apparently he's very dedicated to it (I didn't know he had bipolar disorder until he told me). If Nathan is at the stage where he's still figuring out what treatment looks like for him, that's harder to navigate.

Kendrick's Nathan drawl is very sexy. I've been watching him speak on IG lately (he's been very involved in the BLM marches in LA) and I just realized how different his regular voice is.

"What's up, Stanley dead?" HA! They just shit all over poor Stanley.

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I like both Nathan and Lawrence but must say that the chemistry with Issa and Lawrence is off the charts and I really like Lawrence. So, all of you not wanting a Lawrence/Issa reunion, rest assure it will fall apart because I never get nice things. He is either moving to SF or Condola will be back in his life.

I really hate that Molly's therapist told her she was right for being upset with Issa rather than telling her that her feelings are valid because she is feeling them. There is a difference. I think she was wrong but she feels how she feels. 

I felt so bad for Issa when Molly came home after the brunch, and Molly was so negative and cut to Issa telling Lawrence that it was a good start. She felt hopeful.

Edited by Enigma X
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22 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I like both Nathan and Lawrence but must say that the chemistry with Issa and Lawrence is off the charts and I really like Lawrence.

Isn't it though?  At first I was kinda digging on Issa and Lawrence.  And then Nathan's dark, deep, dreamy voice came out of that intercom.  Why have I never noticed how sexy his voice is? My husband even commented,  "Hey he should be a DJ for a late night show that is all  sexy boning songs."  LOL.

And then I also realized I have some still unresolved feelings about Lawrence from season 1 where he was immobilized on the couch. 

And then I wonder, is he lowkey like Molly where only under certain conditions can he have a healthy relationship with Issa?  Can he only be this happy and good with Issa when he feels like he is winning at life?  Sorta like Molly where she can only be good with Issa if she feels like Issa is losing at life?

So then I become conflicted about Issa and Lawrence and am open to her and Nathan.

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1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I like both Nathan and Lawrence but must say that the chemistry with Issa and Lawrence is off the charts and I really like Lawrence. So, all of you not wanting a Lawrence/Issa reunion, rest assure it will fall apart because I never get nice things. He is either moving to SF or Condola will be back in his life.

I really hate that Molly's therapist told her she was right for being upset with Issa rather than telling her that her feelings are valid because she is feeling them. There is a difference. I think she was wrong but she feels how she feels. 

I felt so bad for Issa when Molly came home after the brunch, and Molly was so negative and cut to Issa telling Lawrence that it was a good start. She felt hopeful.

I hate the way everyone treats Molly with kid gloves. Issa is not perfect but Molly is the one being immature, petty, and insists on keeping score.

Good recap and analysis 

 

 

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How did Molly expect Issa to react? You tell your best friend that you don't fit into each other's lives, and you get bugged because she takes you at your word? Did Molly want to have a debate about the friendship's value out there on the sidewalk? 

No, she just wanted Issa to perform contrition. When Issa flat out said OK, Molly was taken aback that she didn't get her own way. That's Molly's downfall, besides her smugness, she always has to get her own way. As her therapist said, "do you want to be right, or do you want to be in a relationship?" We already know which one Molly wants.

Molly really is the worst type of person to be around. She may recognize that there's an issue, but she doesn't do the work to fix the problem. Everything is everyone else's fault and she's never wrong. Therapy is wasted on her because she just wants validation. It's only a matter of time before Andrew dumps her. The seeds have been sowed. He's already walking on eggshells around her. He sees how she treating her best friend and his brother. It won't take long before she blows up at him, too. No one is worth all of that stress. They haven't even been together a year yet and things are already messy. Andrew already ate her ass, that doesn't mean he has to sign up for the shit that goes along with it.

I like New Issa and New Lawrence, but I don't know if it'll go the distance, either. It was telling when they had the "what are we" conversation and he said, "what do you want it to be?" If they're committed to doing this raw honesty thing, then they both need to say what they want. Throwing the ball back in Issa's court showed me that Lawrence is still passive. It isn't a good sign. 

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Wow, Molly refused to accept any blame. Even after this much time has passed since the block party, she was still furious with Issa and putting all the responsibility on her. It was very telling when Dr. Rhonda asked her if there was anything she could have done differently at the time and Molly said no.

Ha, I loved when Ahmal was clearly overheating from the spice and the waiter brought him a drink and said, "I warned you," and Ahmal just started slurping it down.

I have mixed feelings about the Issa/Molly brunch. It felt like Molly was just waiting for Issa to apologize while Issa was feeling out the situation and trying to get back on Molly's good side before bringing up the whole block party situation.

Related anecdote: I had a friend who was consistently flaky (not just with me but with everyone). He would make plans for every Friday and Saturday night and then at the last minute he would flake. It really annoyed me because this was his M.O. If it had happened once or twice then fine, shit happens, but he did this CONSTANTLY. A group I was part of bought a block of tickets for a game. I asked if he wanted me to get a ticket for him so he could come with us. At the time, he lived in Los Angeles and I lived in San Diego so I drove up to LA early so that we could meet in the parking lot beforehand since I had his ticket. Keep in mind this was in ye olden days before cell phones so flaky people had to flake a little bit in advance. I stood outside in the LA Forum parking lot for two hours and missed the first half of the game waiting for his stupid ass and he never showed up. And it was winter so it was cold! I mean, LA cold but still.

He knew I was mad but instead of calling to apologize right away, he waited a week. When he finally called me, he just started chatting with me like nothing had happened. I waited him out to see if he would bring it up. We talked for like an hour and he said not a word about what happened. Finally when he said he was going to go, I said, "So you're not going to apologize for what you did?" If I hadn't said anything, he was just going to pretend that it never happened. Now I know that's not Issa's intention because she told Lawrence that she was going to bring it up once she was back in Molly's good graces in a few weeks, but I know how Molly felt waiting for that apology (for the record, I still think that Molly was in the wrong, but I can relate to her expecting an apology and getting small talk for an hour).

Molly is just too much though. She really thinks that she did NOTHING wrong and that Issa needs to crawl back on her hands and knees to kiss her feet and beg for her forgiveness. Molly truly thinks that Issa wronged her which is just ludicrous. But more than that, she has turned it into this huge thing in her mind that she is right and Issa is wrong. She thinks that she is in the position to control their relationship and make decisions aka she will decide if she wants to forgive Issa or not.

When Molly told Issa that maybe the people they are now don't fit anymore, she clearly said it because she wanted a reaction from Issa or for Issa to disagree with her. She wanted Issa to fight for their friendship. But Issa took it as a breakup declaration (which it was) and in that case, that's it. My feeling is that when one person says the relationship is ending, that's it. If you try to argue them out of it, is that really how you want to fix things? By talking them back into staying? You don't want to be that girl on Seinfeld who refused to accept when George broke up with her.

I like Andrew and I feel like he has tried to gently point Molly in the right direction but she just isn't having any of it. That is a pretty big sign about her mindset.

On top of that, changing your takeout order to a completely different restaurant without texting or calling first is a crappy thing to do. I know it's minor compared to her issues with his brother, but it's still not cool. Like you have a phone, so use it. It would be one thing if she just told him she was going to pick up something for dinner and he said fine, but they had clearly discussed getting Indian food and then she came home with something else instead without texting him or calling him first. Honestly, I'd take that as a sign that someone is really selfish and non-communicative and start looking for the exit door.

I loved Quoia pulling food out of her purse - and still warm thanks to the hand warmers!

Ha, I was totally Issa and Molly when they found out that Nathan had never had guacamole. It's delicious!

I love that Issa and Molly's celebrity height game is just guessing a celebrity's height and drinking. Sometimes the simplest games are the best games.

The whole Molly/Andrew basketball situation - Molly was in the wrong. First of all, as Andrew pointed out Victor is his brother so if she's going to date him then she can't avoid seeing his brother for the rest of her life. Secondly, Andrew said that Victor had already bought tickets so it's really not nice to say no (especially when she had no reason not to go) after he's already spent the money.

Thirdly, you are only allowed so many excused absences from family gatherings. If you are going to blow one, don't use it on a basketball game. That is the ideal outing because it's crowded and loud and you are all facing toward the game so you don't have to actually talk to each other or interact very much. Save your pass for something that requires more intimacy like dinner at a cozy restaurant.

Mr. EB has an awesome family but he had one relative who I just did not get along with at all. She made every family gathering SO PAINFUL because she was always starting shit with everyone (example: asking, "Is _____ pregnant because she looks like she's gained a lot of weight recently"). But I did not skip a single birthday gathering, holiday, or family dinner just to avoid her. You have to find a way to at least tolerate being in the other person's presence for a few hours because that is your significant other's family.

8 hours ago, scrb said:

BTW, do people really try to message each other about someone else who's in the room?

Yup. Sometimes at family dinners there would be four or five of us with our phones in our laps texting each other comments about Mr. EB's shit stirring relative.

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I’ve disagreed with Molly all season that Issa did anything wrong by having Nathan ask Andrew for a favor for the block party. Friends help each other. They use their connections to help each other. That’s how people get successful. And Issa heard when Molly said she wasn’t comfortable asking Andrew for the favor, so she kept Molly out of it. 
 

Molly is mad because she’s used to feeling superior to Issa. That’s their dynamic: Molly is the rich, successful one who’s always there to help her messy, perpetually-underfunded friend, Issa. She likes feeling looked up to and she likes feeling like someone Issa admires and needs. Now that the playing fields are leveling, she’s the one feeling insecure and less needed. In fact, I think her anger at Issa is more that she ultimately didn’t need Molly’s help to succeed at the block party— she figured it out without her. The reason they “don’t fit” anymore is because Issa raised her own status and got more independent. 
 

And now she’s trying to see if she can be the more dominant one in her relationship because she misses that feeling of being the boss, but Andrew isn’t going to turn out to be as weak as she’s hoping he’ll be. 

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9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Molly this season is definitely next level.  But this isn't completely out of character.

No it isn't.  We've mostly seen this side of Molly in her relationships with men while her relationships with women were more balanced so it isn't as noticeable. 

She's on hyperdrive but it's not out of character at all.

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Well grab me a pair of clown shoes, because I was totally convinced last week that Issa and Lawrence were having one last hurrah before calling it quits. They seem happy, and that they are finally in a place where they can make it work, but Nathan is still not totally out of the equation yet. I like both Nathan and Lawrence, they're both decent guys who have made mistakes and have flaws, but also have a lot of good qualities that make them good possible matches for Issa. 

Freaking Molly, I am so done with her, and at this point I kind of hope Issa is too. Its terribly sad to lose a friendship that has been so long lasting, but its clear that while Issa is willing to make an effort, Molly only wants a relationship where she is totally in charge and is always in the right. She refuses to admit any fault in her fight with Issa (and to me, she was mostly the one at fault in the black party fight) and will only even consider making "an effort" to make up with Issa if Issa is crawling on her hands and knees begging for her forgiveness. Molly is just all take and no give, and thats not a friendship that I think Issa should pursue anymore until Molly is willing to put on her big girl pants and admit that she has made mistakes and take some responsibility. Issa has grown a lot as a person, working to become more responsible and take control of her life, and Molly apparently doesn't like that, because then she wont be the more successful friend anymore, they might be more equal, and she just cant have that I guess. 

I feel like Andrew is about done with Molly too, and I cant blame him. I mean, what does Molly expect, to just never see his brother again because she doesn't like him? Does she expect Andrew to choose Molly over his own damn brother? Not show up to any family function ever? That "why are you asking me to do things I dont want to do" comment was so childish, it sounded like Verruca Salt stomping her foot and demanding a golden goose. Sometimes you have to do things you dont really want to do! Thats just life, sometimes you do things for people you care about that you dont really want to do because you care about them! And while its probably a smaller thing, Molly getting them different food because SHE decided she wasn't feeling the other place without even sending Andrew a text or asking if he was ok with the change or what he wanted was really indicative of her selfishness and lack of ability to communicate. It might seem small, but I think it says a lot about their relationship right now. Molly wont talk to his brother, talks shit about his best friend, and doesn't even bother to consider something as simple as what he might want for dinner. Andrew is a really good guy and seems to have it pretty well together, and I dont think he is going to be with a person who doesn't treat him or the people in his life with any consideration or empathy. 

And yeah, I saw when Andrew dared to suggest that Molly meet Issa halfway, and Molly literally jumped up angrily at the very suggestion that she might not be totally and completely in the right. Its not a good sign in a relationship when you cant even be remotely honest with your significant other about how you feel about something without worrying about them flying off the handle if you ever disagree. 

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Damn Molly.  I'm so glad that issa finally stood up for herself because that was getting damn near abusive.  

Well,  issas situation is starting to turn messy*, whoda thunk?  

Molly's sex game must be fantastic because she is exhausting.  How long have she and andrew been dating?  They should still be in the honeymoon phase.

Molly can't apologize, Molly can't go to a game, Molly can't accept a peace offering, Molly can't budge an inch, you have to walk in eggshells around Molly, you can't get Indian food because Molly didn't like their naan (valid concern, but you sop it up with the sauce in your chicken Tikka masala, problem solved).  

She is going to push Andrew away, she has pushed issa away.  I hope someone starts writing Molly so I can at least kinda sympathize with her. 

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That couch was seeing a lot of action and I wasn't mad at it.

8 hours ago, funnygirl said:

"Do you want to be right, or do you want to be in a relationship." Bloop! 

Damn, that shit hit so hard.  When the therapist said it, I had the following reaction

84bedd3b5c15b523293c4189bef84e04.gif

as if she said it to me.  I'm here re-evaluating all my friendships, whereas Molly clearly didn't take none of that shit to heart.  Like many of you, I'm not quite sure what she was expecting when she said to Issa that their friendship didn't work anymore.  I was like, that's how she feels when Issa's at least making an attempt?  Ah ok, then

tenor.gif?itemid=3979336

 

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12 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Well, I'm off Team Molly at this point.  Molly just doesn't want to try.  She can admit that there's a problem, but won't put in the real effort to fix it.  She just runs or shuts people out.  Whatever Issa's issues are, at least she's making an attempt to reconcile.  But you can't do that with a brick wall.  Molly's idea of reconciliation is Issa asking for her forgiveness.

It's obvious that Andrew is getting fed up with Molly.  He's been supportive and non-judgmental, and subtly trying to coax her and Issa back together, but enough is enough.  Victor may be an asshole, but Andrew can't cut his brother out of his life, and Molly just wants to act like Victor doesn't exist.  If Molly refuses to compromise, Andrew's going to call it quits.

Whether Nathan and Issa get back together, he's a good guy.  He genuinely appreciates Issa and how she inspired him to be better, the way that he inspired her.  I hope this isn't the last we see of him.  I'm glad they shed some light on his character.

I think Lawrence definitely got hired in SF, and he's trying to figure out how to tell Issa.  They both have their shit together, but that doesn't mean they should be getting back together just yet.  

I think Lawrence lied about condola.  

We shall see, but I suspect he was hanging out with condola which is why there was just a tight shot of his face when issa called him.  

I thought for her they were going to widen the shot and we would see condola walking out of the store. 

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43 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Well grab me a pair of clown shoes, because I was totally convinced last week that Issa and Lawrence were having one last hurrah before calling it quits. They seem happy, and that they are finally in a place where they can make it work, but Nathan is still not totally out of the equation yet. I like both Nathan and Lawrence, they're both decent guys who have made mistakes and have flaws, but also have a lot of good qualities that make them good possible matches for Issa. 

Freaking Molly, I am so done with her, and at this point I kind of hope Issa is too. Its terribly sad to lose a friendship that has been so long lasting, but its clear that while Issa is willing to make an effort, Molly only wants a relationship where she is totally in charge and is always in the right. She refuses to admit any fault in her fight with Issa (and to me, she was mostly the one at fault in the black party fight) and will only even consider making "an effort" to make up with Issa if Issa is crawling on her hands and knees begging for her forgiveness. Molly is just all take and no give, and thats not a friendship that I think Issa should pursue anymore until Molly is willing to put on her big girl pants and admit that she has made mistakes and take some responsibility. Issa has grown a lot as a person, working to become more responsible and take control of her life, and Molly apparently doesn't like that, because then she wont be the more successful friend anymore, they might be more equal, and she just cant have that I guess. 

I feel like Andrew is about done with Molly too, and I cant blame him. I mean, what does Molly expect, to just never see his brother again because she doesn't like him? Does she expect Andrew to choose Molly over his own damn brother? Not show up to any family function ever? That "why are you asking me to do things I dont want to do" comment was so childish, it sounded like Verruca Salt stomping her foot and demanding a golden goose. Sometimes you have to do things you dont really want to do! Thats just life, sometimes you do things for people you care about that you dont really want to do because you care about them! And while its probably a smaller thing, Molly getting them different food because SHE decided she wasn't feeling the other place without even sending Andrew a text or asking if he was ok with the change or what he wanted was really indicative of her selfishness and lack of ability to communicate. It might seem small, but I think it says a lot about their relationship right now. Molly wont talk to his brother, talks shit about his best friend, and doesn't even bother to consider something as simple as what he might want for dinner. Andrew is a really good guy and seems to have it pretty well together, and I dont think he is going to be with a person who doesn't treat him or the people in his life with any consideration or empathy. 

And yeah, I saw when Andrew dared to suggest that Molly meet Issa halfway, and Molly literally jumped up angrily at the very suggestion that she might not be totally and completely in the right. Its not a good sign in a relationship when you cant even be remotely honest with your significant other about how you feel about something without worrying about them flying off the handle if you ever disagree. 

To me Molly was the ONLY person in the wrong at the block party.  I think she knows that too, which is why she glossed right over it with a "we haven't been right for months"

That's true, but its a sneaky ass way for Molly to get out of having to admit doing anything wrong. 

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4 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I think Lawrence lied about condola.  

We shall see, but I suspect he was hanging out with condola which is why there was just a tight shot of his face when issa called him.  

I thought for her they were going to widen the shot and we would see condola walking out of the store. 

I think it was shot that way more to hide the fact that they were having an LA street stand in for San Francisco. They made sure to keep the background extra blurry. I don't know why they did that though. They had Lawrence on the street (at a bus stop?) and they could have shot it differently without giving away the fact that they didn't bother to go all the way to San Francisco to do one exterior shot. They could have put the camera right in front of the bus stop so that you would only see the bench and the building behind him.

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1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think it was shot that way more to hide the fact that they were having an LA street stand in for San Francisco. They made sure to keep the background extra blurry. I don't know why they did that though. They had Lawrence on the street (at a bus stop?) and they could have shot it differently without giving away the fact that they didn't bother to go all the way to San Francisco to do one exterior shot. They could have put the camera right in front of the bus stop so that you would only see the bench and the building behind him.

Oh, that actually makes sense if he was up there for a final interview.  That makes a lot more sense.  Though I still think lawrence may not have been entirely candid. 

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1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I hate the way everyone treats Molly with kid gloves.

I think of it more like how the bomb squad operates.

10 hours ago, rozen said:

It'll be interesting to see what Tiffany and Kelli do, because I can totally see Molly trying to stake her claim that they are "her" friends and that Issa needs to roll on.

Nathan was salty, but it was a honest reminder that Lawrence has historically been trash. I'm not even convinced he properly cut things off with Corolla.

Heh. There's a scene in the season 1 finale where Tiffany and Kelli are on Molly like they're at Red Lobster and she's a basket of Cheddar Bay biscuits. Despite Molly having been a human freezer toward her at that time, Issa defends her, which is what finally allows Molly to unclench her sphincter and act like a human friend again. Tiffani and Kelli have Molly's number so...please proceed, Counselor.

Wait, when has Lawrence been historically trash? I genuinely don't remember him being a bad guy. Immature, indecisive, possibly depressed - for sure. Also: I cannot tell if you intentionally called Condola Corolla (Mazda's cousin?) and I LOVE THAT.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Now I know that's not Issa's intention because she told Lawrence that she was going to bring it up once she was back in Molly's good graces in a few weeks, but I know how Molly felt waiting for that apology (for the record, I still think that Molly was in the wrong, but I can relate to her expecting an apology and getting small talk for an hour).

That's such a good point but Molly, in this situation and others, is being delusional that she's the one who deserves an apology. Moreover, she's created the situation she complains so much about. Look at her arrival at brunch. Cold. Unwelcoming. And not for the first time. The idea that Issa would make herself even more vulnerable at that point by initiating an intimate conversation is more delusion. I don't like to throw the word toxic around but Molly is toxic.

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The friendship between Molly and Issa is so unnerving to me because I had an friendship just like that. My friend was the Molly: thought she was superior, smarter and I was always in the wrong. That tit for tar friendship lasted for years until I had a breakthrough like Issa. And you know what? I felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulder and don’t regret closing that door. I know Issa and Molly will eventually have to become cool again for the show, but I wouldn’t blame Issa if she shut the door completely. 

Andrew is going to shut the door and I can’t say I blame him. Molly doesn’t have as much leeway with him as she thinks and he won’t allow himself to be pitted between his brother and her. Plus, him seeing how she is with Issa has to be hella concerning. 

I’m meh on Issa and Lawrence back together because I feel like it’s been there and done that. I’m willing to see how it plays out though. 

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4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Can he only be this happy and good with Issa when he feels like he is winning at life? 

Ugh, I agree. I really hoped that the opening scene was imaginary but they had to throw a bone for the shippers. Interesting how the couch, once a source of contention from their previous relationship, has become their primary source of reconciliation. While the unity is sentimental, the more things change, the more things stay the same. If they're around each other long enough, they're going to fall back into old habits and remember why they grew apart so much in the first place. They both managed to get themselves to a good place and grow as individuals but can the same be said if they were together? Not with Lawrence's trust issues or Issa's insecurities. They're still in the brainstorming stage of what they want out of life. I wouldn't be opposed to them trying again years down the road with more time apart but they're called exes for a reason. 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Oh dear, I had a feeling that Molly's disagreement with Andrew's brother had not been resolved. If the brother had invited them to a game, that would've been a great way to casually reconcile and clear the air. He might have even apologized for being insensitive to her feelings now that time had passed but no. Molly doesn't have to like him as a person but if she's serious about having a long-term relationship you would think, she'd figure out a way to negotiate some tolerance for Andrew's sake, If she's uncomfortable around the brother, she's uncomfortable with Andrew to some extension since they seem to be close - who wouldn't be hurt by that? 

Would she really be that patient if Andrew had beef with one of her brothers because they made him uncomfortable? If she thinks her current relationship is so much work now after a couple months, good luck making it to a year.

Molly is truly a self saboteur and she knows it but gets affronted when she's proven right. If things fall apart, she's really going to regret pushing Issa away. I hope it will be a teaching moment for her to reflect and make whatever changes she needs to be happy because she's so miserable.

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12 hours ago, rozen said:

He's gotten over his pride just enough to go back to what Lawrence always does, seek out something comfortable and unchallenging. 

This articulates something I remember from last week's episode that bugged me. When Lawrence and Issa went out on their date he mentioned figuring out that he was fine being someone's employee and executing someone else's vision, and he doesn't feel the pressure to be some type of leader anymore. Which is FINE. Everyone can't be a leader. Literally, everyone cannot be a boss, and bosses need employees. The majority of us are employees. There's nothing wrong with being a worker bee at all because all roles are important. However Lawrence saying it rubbed me wrong for this very point you made. Lawrence doesn't like challenge. It just took me back to where he was at in season 1. His whole 'Well I tried, what do you want from me?" attitude he took with everything. He's fine just going with the flow. He enjoys the easy road. He likes to coast. Yeah, he and Issa hashed out their residual issues last week but what happens if things get tough again? It makes me feel like 'new' Lawrence isn't new at all...just the same product in a fresh package.

 

4 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Andrew already ate her ass, that doesn't mean he has to sign up for the shit that goes along with it.

TRUER WORDS HAVE NEVER BEEN SPOKEN... Molly's gonna realize sooner or later that Andrew's the only person who signed up to eat her ass. And even he's getting tired of the aftertaste. It lingers on the palate.

Edited by LaJefaza
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11 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

When Lawrence and Issa went out on their date he mentioned figuring out that he was fine being someone's employee and executing someone else's vision, and he doesn't feel the pressure to be some type of leader anymore. Which is FINE. Everyone can't be a leader. Literally, everyone cannot be a boss, and bosses need employees. The majority of us are employees. There's nothing wrong with being a worker bee at all because all roles are important. However Lawrence saying it rubbed me wrong for this very point you made. Lawrence doesn't like challenge.

I took what he said as a sign of maturity.  He said he's happier executing someone else's vision and likes being on teams. When Issa asked about doing his own thing, he said he had felt that he had to be the ideas guy because he thought he was supposed to.  That resonated a lot with me because so much career advice I see given out emphasizes things like "do what you love for a living and it won't feel like a job" (spoiler alert: It very often does). 

And executing someone else's vision/working on teams can be extremely challenging.

Plus, a new job and a new city are new challenges.

I suspect the hesitancy to define what they are might come from that. Career wise, he probably needs to go to SF.  And career-wise, Issa needs to stay in LA. 

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25 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

The friendship between Molly and Issa is so unnerving to me because I had an friendship just like that. My friend was the Molly: thought she was superior, smarter and I was always in the wrong. That tit for tar friendship lasted for years until I had a breakthrough like Issa. And you know what? I felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulder and don’t regret closing that door. I know Issa and Molly will eventually have to become cool again for the show, but I wouldn’t blame Issa if she shut the door completely. 

Andrew is going to shut the door and I can’t say I blame him. Molly doesn’t have as much leeway with him as she thinks and he won’t allow himself to be pitted between his brother and her. Plus, him seeing how she is with Issa has to be hella concerning. 

Issa and Andrew next week:

FearlessThunderousBovine-max-1mb.gif

19 minutes ago, LaJefaza said:

This articulates something I remember from last week's episode that bugged me. When Lawrence and Issa went out on their date he mentioned figuring out that he was fine being someone's employee and executing someone else's vision, and he doesn't feel the pressure to be some type of leader anymore. Which is FINE. Everyone can't be a leader. Literally, everyone cannot be a boss, and bosses need employees. The majority of us are employees. There's nothing wrong with being a worker bee at all because all roles are important. However Lawrence saying it rubbed me wrong for this very point you made. Lawrence doesn't like challenge. It just took me back to where he was at in season 1. His whole 'Well I tried, what do you want from me?" attitude he took with everything. He's fine just going with the flow. He enjoys the easy road. He likes to coast. Yeah, he and Issa hashed out their residual issues last week but what happens if things get tough again? It makes me feel like 'new' Lawrence isn't new at all...just the same product in a fresh package.

Very interesting take on this.  I don't disagree, but I definitely viewed it differently.  I remember back to season 1 when Lawrence begrudgingly took the Best Buy job, and was all to happy to leave the uniform behind in the apartment when he got the new job and moved out as a fuck you to Issa for "forcing" him to take a job that was beneath him.  As Lena's BFF from back home once said on A Different World, "Ain't nothing wrong with a government [or Best Buy] job!"  Lawrence was good at it and he was making ok money (after making ZERO - emphasis mine!), but he just couldn't be happy with it because he had this vision of where he thought he should be.  All of that to say that I saw this statement from his as definite growth in recognizing that finding what you're good at and that's it's something you enjoy is great, even if you aren't the big shot.  And sometimes folks who have always been overachievers need to become comfortable with that and I think that's where he is right now.  I don't know...

29 minutes ago, LaJefaza said:

TRUER WORDS... Molly's gonna realize sooner or later that Andrew's the only person who signed up to eat her ass. And even he's getting tired of the aftertaste. It lingers on the palate.

LMAO! 

giphy.gif

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I actually don’t blame Molly for not wanting to see Victor again, regardless of him being Andrew’s brother.  I don’t know if I would see him, either.  

But as usual, Molly handled the situation poorly.  There’s no way to avoid Victor forever and she definitely can’t stop Andrew from hanging out with his brother, nor should she.

Molly can give herself some time, but she just flat out refuses to see Victor again, then that’s just another reason she and Andrew won’t make it.

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I think issa was wrong. 

Molly's pussy is the one thing about her that isn't broken.  In fact it must be mink lined with the shit she is getting away with. 

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40 minutes ago, LaJefaza said:

However Lawrence saying it rubbed me wrong for this very point you made. Lawrence doesn't like challenge. It just took me back to where he was at in season 1. His whole 'Well I tried, what do you want from me?" attitude he took with everything. He's fine just going with the flow. He enjoys the easy road. He likes to coast.

I read Lawrence a little differently.  I don't think he likes to coast per se, but rather I think he wants to skip important steps and go straight to the head of the line.

When we first met him we was stuck because he couldn't get his big vision of his app off the ground and he was too proud to get a day job.  When he and Issa had that ugly argument outside of Derek's party she brought that up and said 'Where is woot, woot?  I don't see any woot on my phone."

When he got the job at the tech company, the bosses there fed into his own seldf importance by only praising him and not giving him any critical feedback.  So he thought he was the shit.   Aparna had to be the one to tell him facts.  And she had to try to convince him several times to work on the ground floor of another app so he could see how development worked and he resisted.  He he insisted on pitching his app and that didn't go so well. 

I think his acceptance of being an employee shows some growth and he realizes he can't run before he walks.

 

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2 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

I actually don’t blame Molly for not wanting to see Victor again, regardless of him being Andrew’s brother.  I don’t know if I would see him, either.  

But as usual, Molly handled the situation poorly.  There’s no way to avoid Victor forever and she definitely can’t stop Andrew from hanging out with his brother, nor should she.

Molly can give herself some time, but she just flat out refuses to see Victor again, then that’s just another reason she and Andrew won’t make it.

I can see that.  Just strategically if she wants to let Victor know that he cannot cross those lines with her, she could refuse his first olive branch.  

But, I don't know.  Is Victor going to try again?  And how is that going to fly with the rest of Andrews family?  

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24 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

I actually don’t blame Molly for not wanting to see Victor again, regardless of him being Andrew’s brother.  I don’t know if I would see him, either.  

I think establishing boundaries is fine but if Andrew is close to his brother, then it's not going to be practical to never see him. 

And one thing I would not do is get snippy with my boyfriend about why he'd ask me to do something I don't want to do when the answer is both obvious and reasonable. 

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41 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I took what he said as a sign of maturity.  He said he's happier executing someone else's vision and likes being on teams. When Issa asked about doing his own thing, he said he had felt that he had to be the ideas guy because he thought he was supposed to.  That resonated a lot with me because so much career advice I see given out emphasizes things like "do what you love for a living and it won't feel like a job" (spoiler alert: It very often does). 

And executing someone else's vision/working on teams can be extremely challenging.

Plus, a new job and a new city are new challenges.

I suspect the hesitancy to define what they are might come from that. Career wise, he probably needs to go to CA.  And career-wise, Issa needs to stay in LA.

I can see this and I'll take your point. Maybe I'm being hard on him. I guess I'm still seeing as the guy with the bouch glued to his ass in season 1. I guess, as Kelli says...it's growth.

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2 hours ago, RealReality said:

To me Molly was the ONLY person in the wrong at the block party.  I think she knows that too, which is why she glossed right over it with a "we haven't been right for months"

 

Yeah I definitely noticed that, it was really obviously her deflecting to try and make this a "we both made mistakes" thing, and not a "I totally blew up at you at your own event for no good reason" thing. Yeah she isn't wrong, and she and Issa have been on rocky ground for awhile now, but this blow up was totally on Molly, and what makes that even worse is that Issa is the one who is actually trying to reach out and be the mature one, and she isn't even the one who did anything wrong here! 

I found the contrasting scenes between Molly and Issa talking about their brunch to be really sad. Issa was so happy and optimistic that this was the start of them mending fences, while Molly just complained about Issa and how she didn't spend the whole time groveling for "forgiveness" from Molly. 

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5 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

It was telling when they had the "what are we" conversation and he said, "what do you want it to be?" If they're committed to doing this raw honesty thing, then they both need to say what they want. Throwing the ball back in Issa's court showed me that Lawrence is still passive.

It hadn't occurred to me until I read this that there's a similarity in the way that both Lawrence and Molly treat Issa: they both expect her to be the one to go out on a limb. In order to meet up with Molly, Issa had to be the one to reach out and state her desire to see Molly, despite their fight, which allowed Molly the choice between gracing Issa with her presence, or telling her, "No, and fuck you for asking." And then Lawrence kind of did the same thing here—he didn't want to say that he wants them to be exclusive again before he heard her say it. And I assume that is what they both want, because in my experience, people aren't afraid to state that they prefer to keep things casual.

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Molly told Issa that maybe the people they are now don't fit anymore, she clearly said it because she wanted a reaction from Issa or for Issa to disagree with her. She wanted Issa to fight for their friendship.

I had an ex who did this to me. I had been trying for weeks to figure out how to end things, and then he floated the idea, clearly expecting me to say something like, "What? NO! You and I are forever!" instead of, "Yeah, I agree."

"We should break up," is a declarative statement that ends things. "Maybe we should break up?" is either a test (and the person on the receiving end is better off "failing" it and getting out of the relationship) or it's a cowardly way to end things while putting the blame on the other person. Either way, it's manipulative.

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3 hours ago, RealReality said:

Well,  issas situation is starting to turn messy*, whoda thunk?  

@RealReality, you were right last week. I was really hoping last week was the end of Issa and Lawrence, but I was wrong.

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have mixed feelings about the Issa/Molly brunch. It felt like Molly was just waiting for Issa to apologize while Issa was feeling out the situation and trying to get back on Molly's good side before bringing up the whole block party situation.

I was really hoping they would talk things out right there. Molly waiting and Issa avoiding just made things so weird. They should have just started with the block party instead of pretending things were normal.

 

22 minutes ago, Hera said:

"We should break up," is a declarative statement that ends things. "Maybe we should break up?" is either a test (and the person on the receiving end is better off "failing" it and getting out of the relationship) or it's a cowardly way to end things while putting the blame on the other person. Either way, it's manipulative.

Yes, so manipulative. Either you want to work it out or you don't. Don't make the other person beg or try to convince you.

Edited by mrsbagnet
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