S06.E19: Success Is Assured

[Trini]

SEASON FINALE - Barry considers a risky plan to save Iris from the Mirrorverse. Ralph attempts to stop Sue (guest star Natalie Dreyfuss) from making a grave mistake that could destroy her life.

Phil Chipera directed the episode written by Kelly Wheeler & Lauren Barnett.

Airdate: 5/12/2020

[Jediknight]

Loved the fight scene being like a comic book.  That was awesome,

And hey, they finally remembered that Barry was the Paragon of Love.

That was one strange cliffhanger.  But, it was the best they could do with the pandemic, and having to rush to shoot something.

[Lantern7]

"Well, Eva is on top, and she's reminding us that she can step on our throats at any time. Iris and two others are lost, and Sue's been framed for murder. But we got Joe back. So we're ready to strike back!"

I know, I'm being mean. I've been suggesting that the pandemic has made me more disinterested in The Flash. I forgot that I usually get to this forum after watching Legends of Tomorrow, and they always get me intrigued.

Hey, Grant can do Calm Rage! Good for him. Really hoping that when the show comes back, Barry gets a couple of W's right away. He's the Paragon of Putz, but he's our Paragon of Putz.

Also not taken in that far by Frost's journey. I keep thinking of Danielle's pregnancy. I don't really notice it because I'm dense. But this is all I can think of: "Is it a boy or a girl?" "It's . . . it's . . . it's an Olaf."

ETA: Teleporting smoke bomb. I wouldn't want Nash to use that all the time, but it was awesome. Make a ninja escape without being a ninja!

Edited May 13, 2020 by Lantern7

[Lady Calypso]

Well, for a makeshift finale...it could have been worse. We could have ended the season on a filler episode. At least this one had stuff going on!

I LOVE that Eva hasn't been defeated and we get to carry that into season 7. It's somewhat fun to see the rare time that a villain isn't defeated by season's end. Arrow did it with Marblemouth Diaz, and they've kind of done it with Thawne last season as well, but I don't think they've done it with any other major villains in the Arrowverse (no, Supergirl's Lex doesn't count because technically, the heroes DID defeat Lex until Bullshit Monitor saved him at the last second).

I kind of like that Carver is dead already. He clearly isn't the important part of Eva's story and we can get to her TRUE mission (or secondary mission, I guess). Which I assume involves the Mirror World and Iris, as she hasn't let anyone go from there.

The fight scene with the comic book editing was...weird. I get what they were going for but I didn't actually like it. Plus, the lighting was really bothering me the longer it went on.

What a weird...three episode arc to get rid of Caitlin for...I presume only three episodes (unless DP was also planning to miss the beginning of season 7, depending on how long she was staying on maternity leave). Literally took three episodes to say bye-bye to Caitlin when Cisco got a "Going to Atlantis, see YAAAAA" for presumably a couple of episodes and Joe's "Gotta go to protective custody, see YAAAAA" for only two episodes. 

They've done some WEIRD storylines for actors who are only presumed to be gone for a couple of episodes.

As for Iris' cliffhanger ending....I'm intrigued. I'm guessing, now that she's fully acclimated to Mirror World, she's just like Eva and can transport through mirrors. I'm guessing that's a big clue that Eva and Iris can be cured from this, and that's how they defeat Eva.

Overall, not a horrible episode. Maybe not the best finale, but not a bad episode. 

[thuganomics85]

Well, I guess it works well enough for a season finale considering that it was unexpected and not suppose to be an actual finale, but I still wish they had at least been able to get Iris/Kamilla/Singh out of the Mirrorverse, and kick things off next season with Team Flash taking on Eva head on (and likely working Bloodwork back in, I imagine.)  Instead, not only has Iris and Kamilla not even got to the real Singh yet, she suddenly fritzes and shatters away?  Eh.

Got to give Eva credit for not creating mirror versions of the Black Hole squad, but instead just being "Work for me, instead of Joseph, since he sucks" to the actual members, and them being all "Yeah, sure, he is pretty lame."  Honestly, it was hard for me to really hate Eva for killing him and "winning", because he was such a dick.  I know I would disappoint most of Team Flash for saying that, so sorry, guys!

Speaking of which, I was doing all that I could not to roll my eyes at Nash guilt-tripping Barry for contemplating Mirror Singh's offer.  Realistically, I suspect Barry never would have gone through with it, but it would have been unbelievable to me if he didn't at least briefly pause over possibly saying his wife/the love of his life, at the expense of a criminal who literally put out a hit on his father.  But Nash was acting like Barry already accepted the deal, and was going down a dark path.  Shut it, Nash.  Go back to bugging Allegra.

Ralph and Sue continue to be a fun duo, and I'm curious to see more of her, since she's now apparently been framed for Carver's murder.

Mirror Singh was fun while he lasted.  Patrick Sabongui seemed to be having a blast playing him.

Caitlin is finally gone for however long Danielle Panabaker's leave will be.  All of her scenes this season have been a pretty big drag this season.

I guess Cisco is still in Atlantis getting that special weapon, but his absence was noticeable.  But that's kind of par for the course with that character.

Hopefully the wait won't be too long.  Curious to see how this plays out and how long Eva will stick around as the main threat.

[phoenics]

I was incredibly disappointed by this finale... we got 2 Iris scenes and the focus of the episode was so scattered.

And ... we can get THREE whole scenes sending KF/C off where the whole cast is there to fawn over her, etc.. but we couldn't get better PoV for Iris in Crisis or even this Mirror arc? 

Why THREE scenes?  And that last scene was pure ship bait. Whatever.  I couldn't even pay attention because it SCREAMED ship bait.

I hated the split screen fighting - it made it hard to follow and see - but maybe they did that to hide the post production.  But I hope that isn't a feature in the future.

The only redeeming things for me about the finale was Iris' cliffhanger.

Honestly - the episode overall was not a good episode.  The focus on side characters and lack of buildup was not good... way to kill the momentum from the last two episodes.

I wish they'd just ended the season on 6.17.

[tennisgurl]

As a season finale that wasnt really supposed to be a season finale, this was handled decently well all things considered. At least it did feel like a climax, but left a lot for them to do next season. I am glad that Eva is still around, and is even more powerful now with both her powers and as a CEO, and that Carver is dead. Eve is a more interesting villain anyway, and its a nice change of pace to have a villain not only not be defeated, but still be a threat at the end of the season. I also like that she really isnt after Barry or Team Flash in particular, this isnt something personally against them like it has been with a lot of their villains. She has no problem hurting them, especially sucking Iris, Camilla, and David into the Mirror Verse, but thats all means to an end, she doesent seem to be interested in picking a fight with them. I dont even know if she meant to grab Iris in particular, or that Iris was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She has had two chances now to kill Barry, and she didnt, just because she legitimately doesent really see him as an enemy or a threat. 

I also love that when Eve got to the real world, she apparently stopped at the Villain Gap to pick out a sexy new evil leather outfit for her villainy! And I like that instead of killing Carvers angels, she paid them more and reminded them that Carver is a dick and got them on her side. More people should just offer mooks that attack them a better retirement plan to get them to back off. 

Guys, we are getting dangerously close to Regina from Once Upon a Time levels of unearned constant hand holding and praise with Killer Frost at this point. Seriously, the "your such a hero!!!" pep talks are just getting ridiculous, and not only are these talks stupid, with everyone constantly having to drop all of the huge life or death things they do on the regular to take care of her and tell her how awesome she is whenever she gets a little sad, but they just smash the show to a complete halt, taking us away from the interesting stuff from the main plot to watch Frost hit the same character beats over and over again, and drags other characters into this boredom. This is just a lot to explain why DP was going to be gone for a bit. Just say she went to Atlantis with Cisco, that took three seconds! 

The fight scene with all the lines swapping and the split screens was interesting at least, even if it didnt totally work, mainly because the lighting was so dark it was hard to really see. I do like seeing them getting more creative in editing and filming, and that it looked a bit like comic book panels. 

We get more Ralph and Sue, actually more involved in the main plot this time, and Sue has grown on me, and they have grown as a fun adventurous duo now that Sue is being less of an ass to him. Plus, Ralph got to give a "your better than this" speech, Barry would be so proud! 

I dont blame Barry at all for at least considering Mirror Davids offer to exchange Carver for Iris, I dont think he would have really done it, thats just not how Barry operates, but of course he would consider turning over this asshole guy to save his missing wife. Poor Barry is almost doing as poorly mentally as Iris as this point, he was literally shaking with misery a few times he is so desperate to find Iris, and so heartbroken and scared that he still cant find her. and they still arent reunited! 

And now Iris is becoming one with the mirror or something? I would have liked a lot more Iris this week, and we could have easily cut the Frost stuff for that, but at least she got the big final scene and cliffhanger. 

 

[Trini]

I know this is where the show has to end right now and we won't see the conclusion for months (😭), but I'm not considering this a season finale.

"You're just as important" - Is she really, Cecile? Is she??  I was actually kind of pissed that there was no Cisco, and we wasted time on Caitlin/Frost in a plot that should have been in one episode, 2 episodes ago. Also pissed that they had to insert Barry into that maternity leave plot. UGH.

Carver was horrible (yet boring), but it still sucked that he died because Team Flash couldn't protect him. Black Hole is still vaguely evil, but Eva taking it over makes it more interesting. Yay! One of my predictions was right! But I wish Team Flash had a real win here; Iris, Kamilla, and Singh are still trapped and Eva got away and got away with everything. Sue is framed.

But speaking of Sue; she and Ralph do work well together, and Ralph having to clear her name could be a good story for them. But she's still shady, and I don't really like that.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for Nash because a virtual stranger doesn't want to be his pseudo-daughter?

Really? Harry of all people saying that Barry would never consider a deal that would save Iris? I guess he forgot his trip to Earth-2 where Barry screwed over Jesse, etc. for an Iris that wasn't even his Iris? He wouldn't go through with it, but would he consider it for a few seconds? Yes.

I would have traded some Frost or fight scenes for more Iris and Kamilla. They really don't care enough about that side of the mirror. So... will Iris have mirror powers if she gets out?

Eva is a better big bad than Carver, too bad she hadn't been fully realized until now. I came in not expecting Iris and the others to get out, but then what Eva said this episode gave me a sliver of hope - but then she didn't let them go after she killed Carver. 😭😭

Edited May 13, 2020 by Trini
dropped word

[Trini]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

...

The fight scene with the comic book editing was...weird. I get what they were going for but I didn't actually like it. Plus, the lighting was really bothering me the longer it went on.

I appreciate the effort to do something different, but I wasn't especially impressed by the big fight scene. I wanted to see more creative uses of everyone's powers; but I get that they're working with a TV budget.

 

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

... But Nash was acting like Barry already accepted the deal, and was going down a dark path.  Shut it, Nash.  Go back to bugging Allegra.

Fixed it! 😉

Edited May 13, 2020 by Trini

[tkc]

We laughed at Barry suggesting Allegra point the crystal at his map and then saying, ”hey, look at what the light is shining on... it must be what we’re looking for!”

Good thing he didn’t tell her to point the diamond at the floor, or else they’d still be digging!

[BeautifulFlower]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

 

"You're just as important" - Is she really, Cecile? Is she??  I was actually kind of pissed that there was no Cisco, and we wasted time on Caitlin/Frost in a plot that should have been in one episode, 2 episodes ago. Also pissed that they had to insert Barry into that maternity leave plot. UGH.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That line really pissed me off. You just got told that your pseudo daughter in law and friends are kidnapped and trapped in a mirror, yet you're saying that is equal to helping Killer Frost? No and it never will be. They were over there packing. PACKING!!!!!! How is that just as important as rescuing Iris, Kamilla, and singh? That line made Cecile inconsiderate. What's worse? Even Killer Frost points how they all should be hands on deck instead of helping her PACK!!!!!!

That whole scene was unnecessary. We didn't need it to have Carla come back. They could've just wrote Killer Frost opening the door and cut to her running her tests. More time should've been spent on Iris and Kamilla. Or they could've just had all this in episode 17.

 

[phoenics]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

 

"You're just as important" - Is she really, Cecile? Is she??  I was actually kind of pissed that there was no Cisco, and we wasted time on Caitlin/Frost in a plot that should have been in one episode, 2 episodes ago. Also pissed that they had to insert Barry into that maternity leave plot. UGH.

 

Really? Harry of all people saying that Barry would never consider a deal that would save Iris? I guess he forgot his trip to Earth-2 where Barry screwed over Jesse, etc. for an Iris that wasn't even his Iris? He wouldn't go through with it, but would he consider it for a few seconds? Yes.

I would have traded some Frost or fight scenes for more Iris and Kamilla. They really don't care enough about that side of the mirror. So... will Iris have mirror powers if she gets out?

 

The bolded felt like pandering to a specific portion of the fandom.  There was no reason for THREE scenes being devoted to KF.  THREE?!?!  WTF show?  And that last one, as you said was just insult to injury, especially given Barry is pouring his heart out about Iris to a character that once tried to kill her and STILL HASN'T APOLOGIZED for it!

I'm still offended by that and every scene where they show Barry kissing up to KF/CS just makes it worse.

I'm still angry they had Iris forgive CS/KF and beg to be her friend, while C acted like she deserved to be begged (instead of the other way around).

And this finale, with three whole useless, momentum killing scenes to coddle KF/CS for a maternity send off just felt ... off given how this show marginalizes the actual female lead.  Cisco got one scene as a send off, but KF/CS gets THREE?  I better not see her pop up in any of the final scenes this season once they resume filming.  No - we've suffered enough - keep her off the last 3 episodes.

This "finale" really frustrated me.  If next season continues to do #WestAllen only on paper (where we get told of their love, but we never get to SEE it play out onscreen) and continues to pander to the OTF fandom (whitewater rafting - WTF!), I don't know if I can continue to watch that.

Edited May 13, 2020 by phoenics

[Starry]

You can't have Nash bash Barry for considering to trade Carver's life for Iris in the same episode the entire cast wants to act like Frost is the purest being like she didn't drag HR as Iris to the chopping block. So Barry has to feel guilty for considering to let Eva murder her criminal husband who's had I don't know how many people killed but Frost is the best woman who's ever bestest when she's an accomplice in the murder of an innocent man? Get out of here! This writing is so manipulative I want to gag. But if you want me to hate Caitlin/Frost even more then mission accomplished! And no matter the music cues, the slow motion and all the editing tricks Grant and DP still don't have chemistry.

I continue to enjoy the Ralph and Sue dynamic but I still think they need to tone down the quirkiness.

Nash is veering into creep territory. Allegra is a stranger to you and wants nothing to do with you. Leave her alone! That "when are you going to stop trying?" "Never!" exchange wasn't as sweet as they probably thought it would be.

I hated the fight scene.

I didn't even realize Cisco was missing. Then I remembered he was supposed to be in Atlantis.

It was nice to get Joe back.

Eva's "Honey, I am home!" cracked me up.

Am I supposed to spend the entire hiatus wondering what happened to Iris?

Speaking of, they'd better let Caitlin/Frost stay gone for at least three episodes. You can't waste three episodes on goodbye scenes for a character that's supposed to come back in the season 7 premiere.

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

That line really pissed me off. You just got told that your pseudo daughter in law and friends are kidnapped and trapped in a mirror, yet you're saying that is equal to helping Killer Frost? No and it never will be. They were over there packing.

Yeah dont you love how everyone is hovering around fretting over Frosty and her clearly treatable medical issue and her being a bit nervous about hanging with her kinda mom (what do you even call your daughters super powered alter identity?) for episode after episode, when last season hardly anyone could even be bothered to check in on Iris when her husband was a few weeks from death?! And Iris (and Kamilla and David) are now stuck in some creepy mirror world, but oh no, helping Frost pack for a few weeks out of town is totally on the same level of importance! 

You know show, if you want us to see Frost as this wonderful hero and friend who everyone in this show drops everything for at every possible second, could you maybe, I dont know, show her being a great wonderful hero and friend a bit more? 

[phoenics]

11 minutes ago, Starry said:

You can't have Nash bash Barry for considering to trade Carver's life for Iris in the same episode the entire cast wants to act like Frost is the purest being like she didn't drag HR as Iris to the chopping block. So Barry has to feel guilty for considering to let Eva murder her criminal husband who's had I don't know how many people killed but Frost is the best woman who's ever bestest when she's an accomplice in the murder of an innocent man? Get out of here! This writing is so manipulative I want to gag. But if you want me to hate Caitlin/Frost even more then mission accomplished! And no matter the music cues, the slow motion and all the editing tricks Grant and DP still don't have chemistry.

 

Speaking of, they'd better let Caitlin/Frost stay gone for at least three episodes. You can't waste three episodes on goodbye scenes for a character that's supposed to come back in the season 7 premiere.

THANK YOU!!!  It is just ... so frustrating the way the show is handling this and yes - it's extremely manipulative.  KF/CS still hasn't apologized for what she did to Iris TO IRIS personally, so having Barry have this heart to heart with KF/CS, pouring his heart out about his fears, etc.. is such a manipulative ship baity kind of writing that I'm still mad about it a day later.

I don't want to see scenes with Barry/Caitlin anyway - but if I do have to see them, I don't want them to be about Iris.  Because KF/CS still haven't paid for what they did to Iris and still haven't apologized, I don't want that.

This was worse than the domestic scene they did for the Thanksgiving episode with Caitlin helping Barry make a pie.  Just no.  These scenes reek of ship bait.  Even the way this one last night was cut was just ... slow motion?  Really?

Am I supposed to spend the entire hiatus wondering what happened to Iris?

Apparently.

*sighs*  I'm not bitter.

Yes I am.

[Terrafamilia]

If the mirror-verse has a copy of everything in the regular universe except the people shouldn't there be a copy of that mirror gun Siri swiped and used to send Kamilla over? Find it and see if it'll send stuff from the mirror-verse over to the regular one.

[shantown]

Finally caught up on the last couple episodes of the season. Ever since the crossover I just haven't cared about the Flash. Everything's been too disjointed, random plots (IMPORTANT plots!) get totally dropped, and we're force-fed Killer Frost at the expense of Iris, Cisco, etc. I know that Covid wrecked plans for the finale but there's no excuse for what a mess this season has been. 

[Trini]

Nice group photo from Patrick Sabongui:

 

[Quark]

I thought this was great seeing as it wasn't supposed to be a finale.

Eve makes a great villain, curious to see how this resolves.

[Trini]

More thoughts after re-watching:

While it did set up some things and further a few plots, compared to Supergirl's and Batwoman's accidental finales, this episode didn't work as well to close the season.

Super annoying that Allegra was supposed to be part of Team Citizen and Iris' plot, but in this second half she's been mostly attached to Nash and/or Team Flash. Nash and Allegra - the two newest and most useless characters - having their own (nonsensical) relationship sideplot bugs when we could be focused on more important things.

It's disappointing that taking down Black Hole was Iris and CC Citizen's storyline, and now that's pretty much done with Eva killing Carver, and Iris is still in the Mirrorverse anyway.

Sue and Ralph: Their relationship is building up nice and slowly. But it's kind of a problem that they only have a story with each other; and Sue only has scenes with Ralph. The actors are good together but I'm still not completely sold on Sue.

Two scenes with Iris were not enough. The bigger issue is that there hasn't been enough of Iris in the Mirrorverse this whole time. Anyway, it's weird that just being in the Mirrorverse gives you powers but it could kind of make sense - within the Mirrorverse. My guess is that Iris somehow transports to Singh's location. Also that pod of Eva's will eventually be used to heal Iris.

They actually had Barry doing stuff in this episode, which is good; but I feel like his plot really should have been him struggling with his decision on whether or not to use Carver to get Iris back. There should have been more anger towards Carver. (He knew about Iris' kidnapping!) On the other hand, it's Barry, and they wouldn't actually have him send someone to die - so why have the struggle? But they could have still shown him trying to negotiate or form some plan to get Iris back, since Carver was his only bargaining chip and Mirror-Singh his only lead to Eva (and thus, Iris). In short, I needed Barry to be driving the plot here, instead of mainly reacting to it.

It didn't make sense that Barry didn't even mention Iris after Eva got what she wanted.

UGH - Shut up, Nash. You know nothing of which you speak.

Nitpick: Ultraviolet was blaming Allegra for ending up in Black Hole made no sense: weren't they both only teens, and Allegra was a few years younger? And Esperanza was in a coma; what was she supposed to do?

I thought that they might try some type of redemption arc with Eva ("the Mirrorverse made her crazy"), but not anymore after this episode. Supposedly she's not Flash's enemy, but she still has his wife captive. She's a more interesting villain than Carver, but it sucks that they waited until now to ramp up her story. And they barely did anything with Black Hole/Carver before now either.

One good thing I have to mention is how many women were onscreen here. Historically, The Flash has been horrible at this, so it was good to see so many female characters with speaking roles, doing things, talking to each other, helping each other, working together, in fight scenes. And a few scenes with only women. Regulars and guest stars; heroines and villainesses.

If they needed a group scene with Caitlin, I think it should have been the last scene, and not the first. Anyway, the show was reminding us that Barry is the paragon of Love; I'm just not sure how that will connect to rebuilding/restoring the Speed Force. Iris better be involved, though!

Edited May 25, 2020 by Trini
dropped word