S05.E12: Never My Love

[gingerella]

Oof, I knew this was going to be a doozy so I had my finger ready to f/f during really horrific scenes. I can't talk a lot about the portrayal of what happened to Claire, it was too awful, and yet I find myself thinking, 'yeah but it wasn't as awful as Wentworth prison scenes' and that my friends, says so much about how awful this show is to many of it's characters. Is it as bad as GOTs, probably not, and yet it skews what we find horrible, doesn't it? At least I feel that way. I think there was a way to tell this entire story, I mean from S01 to S05, without as much rape, near rape, torture, etc. It isn't entertaining to watch that shit over and over and over again. Someone upthread asked what's wrong with the writer that she writes this stuff in abundance, and I echo that query. What the fuck, Diana, really?!?

* I always appreciate a good callback to previous seasons or episodes, and we've gotten precious few since about S03 or thereabouts, so I liked Claire seeing a rabbit during her darkest hours, a call back to Jamie also seeing a rabbit in the softly falling snow in the aftermath of Culloden and not understanding if he's dead, dying, or what.

* Another time traveler! The 'Does Ringo mean anything to you? 1968?' That was probably the most interesting thing that happened all season and we get that snippet and that's it? So this guy came through the Stones with a 'group' of Native Americans to help warn their people, and did I hear correctly that they also came to rescue Bob/Otter Tooth? Other than Otter Tooth, what the hell happened to the rest of his group then?! If Show doesn't bring him back to explain himself in S06 I shall be mightily pissed off.

* The disassociation scenes from the 1960s/70s were really interesting and well done. And I appreciated to callbacks to the blue vase, the orange, and the painting of Fraser's Ridge. I also liked Jamie being the only one in 1700's clothing though I didn't understand why that was because other non time travelers like Ian, Jocasta, and Murtagh were all dressed in modern garb.  I also was bummed to hear that Roger, Brianna, and Jemmy were killed in a car accident. I know Claire lost her parents and Frank that way, but what was the significance of that? Was it somehow future telling, as in Brianna and Roger knew she and Jamie died in a fire so they came to warn/save them, and Claire is now somehow seeing how they die and will warn them so they don't go back? This is the sort of thing that the Show handles so poorly, because it's got teeth and they usually never go back and really unpack it.

* Aha! I knew Roger and Brianna weren't going anywhere! We're not that lucky... When they both said they were thinking of 'home' I assumed they were thinking of the essence of 'Home' but not picturing a specific place and that's why they ended up back where they were, because that IS 'home' to them now. I don't think Jemmy being unable to 'visualize' something had anything to do with them not going back to their time.

* So Jamie and everyone go off to rescue Claire and they leave the women home alone? Yeah, that sounds like good planning there Mr. Fraser...SMDH yet again.

* I appreciated Ian preparing for war, Mohawk style. It's so ingrained in him, I wonder how much war and violence he participated in during his time with the Mohawk and if that had anything to do with his losing his wife?

* 'Dinnae be afraid, it's the two of us now..." Lovely call back to The Wedding.

* Why can't these people just kill the evil bastards that hunt them? They let Bonnet live so he can be tried 'properly', after escaping at least twice. Now they can kill Lionel, but they choose to bring him home with them so they can question the bastard?! Like he's going to tell them anything? He wouldn't care if they tortured him til he died, he'd never help them with answers to anything. I know that, you all know that, why the hell don't the writers know that?!

*Geordie died. Bummer, but who's Geordie?!

* I wish Claire had killed Lionel, but of course her damn oath. At what point does one say 'fuck the oath"?! Apparently she hasn't gotten to that point yet? Jesus.

* Marsali is my fucking sHERO! Yes Queen, you do what Claire cannot do! I love this character so much and I hope the show gives her and Fergus and Ian a lot more story line in S06 because they pretty much carry the show now. They aren't stupid, they make sense, they carry out plans without mucking them up. They need more screen time, even if it's not written in the books.

* Again I say, just burn down Village Brown, it's a bunch of miserable sods and asshole men. What I cannot tell is, are they living 'on' Fraser's Ridge? Because they seem close by.

* I loved Claire and Jamie's 'I love you's' and how her bruised hand is covered by his scarred fingers. Two people, bearing unbearable scars, together.

* Last but not least, I cannot imagine how anyone can watch this episode, and think Jamie and Claire had just had sex. That scene was meant as a way to protect her and show their mutual vulnerability as humans. They were naked, both physically and emotionally, and Claire found her safety in that, that is what that scene was about.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

7 hours ago, gingerella said:

*Geordie died. Bummer, but who's Geordie?!

The man who was being treated in the infirmary when Lionel's gang broke in to take Claire. He tried to fight them off and was stabbed. He's an ex-Ardsmuir Prison settler on the Ridge with a wife and five children, and appeared in six episodes this season. Geordie Chisholm.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[SassAndSnacks]

So this one...

I almost didn't watch it again, and I had promised myself after watching it the fist time that I would never watch it again.  As soon as I hit play, the warning popped up on the screen, I had second thoughts and hit stop.  But, then I hit play again.  I'm glad I did, for discussion's sake, but I'm seriously promising myself this time to never watch it again. 

First, I feel odd saying that I think the way this was portrayed was brilliant, because how could the portrayal of something like this ever be "good" or how can we/should we compliment the way this was shown? But the portrayal of it was brilliant and honest.

Second, I'm disappointed that it was shown at all.  I know that seems very contradictory, but this absolutely did not have to happen to Claire.  They could have taken her, beaten her.  The rape takes it too far for me, and as it has been said, it's a recycling of previous storylines, which is lazy and used for shock value.  And I say this as a fan of the books, so I know clearly what is in there and this episode came from the source material.  BUT, it didn't have to.  The show is based on the books, and this whole situation could have been altered.  To make it worse, the Show made the story even more horrific than the source material, which is saying something given DG's penchant for putting her beloved characters through horrible situations. 

All of that said, I thought it was brilliantly done, so I'm back to point #1 above where I feel weird about appreciating this so much.  

On 2/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, gingerella said:

The disassociation scenes from the 1960s/70s were really interesting and well done.

 These scenes are really the basis for why I think this episode was so well done.  These flashes were absolutely incredible.  I want someone to pull these scenes from the episode and just do a montage of them.  And the Association is forever ruined for me.  Small price to pay for the how wonderful these were.  

On 2/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, gingerella said:

Aha! I knew Roger and Brianna weren't going anywhere! We're not that lucky...

This was so stupid and such a waste of the previous episode.  Infuriating. 

On 2/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, gingerella said:

Marsali is my fucking sHERO!

Marsali is my queen.  I bow at her feet.  

On 2/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, gingerella said:

What I cannot tell is, are they living 'on' Fraser's Ridge? Because they seem close by.

I think Tebbi told Claire it was a two-days ride to Brownsville.  

On 2/27/2022 at 5:07 PM, gingerella said:

That scene was meant as a way to protect her and show their mutual vulnerability as humans. They were naked, both physically and emotionally, and Claire found her safety in that, that is what that scene was about.

Loved this.  The sound of the rain coming down in the background and then how it rolled over into the credits, gorgeous.  

 

In general, the season finales leave us on a hopeful note after some shitty things have happened - 

Season 1 - "I'm pregnant."

Season 2 - "I can go back!"

Season 3 - "America!"

Season 4 - Prolonged running. (Ok, gag.)

I didn't leave Season 5 with the same hopeful note, and I miss the joy tempered into the drama in the earlier seasons.  We need some levity, and I'm curious to see if they are able to bring that back in Season 6 or have we just moved past that now?

[foxfreakinmulder]

On 5/10/2020 at 12:30 PM, BitterApple said:

Claire's ordeal was awful, but I'm so tired of rape being used as a theme. It's starting to feel gratuitous at this stage.

I agree! WTF is up with all the raping in this show. I don't read the books so I don't know if it's that way in the books if so the author has issues. I don't watch in real time I wait for it to hit Netflix but at this point I'm only here for Lord John. I want more Lord John, less everyone else.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'd watch a two hour movie of Lord John playing chess and talking about what books he likes. Or horses. He must know something about horses. I'd listen to him talk about that. 

[Fan21]

Has it ever been answered how Roger and Bree made it back to Fraser’s Ridge so quickly?

in the episode prior, Claire mentions they’ve been gone for “2 weeks but it feels like an eternity”.

This let’s us know the stones are roughly 2 weeks from the ridge.

When Roger and and Bree return, they see Jaime’s burning effigy that rallies his “clan”.

It seems that Jaime lit the effigy the night Claire was taken and Roger and Bree saw it that same night. So if it took 2 weeks to get to the stones, why did it only take 1 day (maybe even a few hours) to get back?

There is no way Jaime lit the effigy 10-12 days after Claire was abducted as he wouldn’t have waited so long to go after her.

[mythoughtis]

I really thought the Roger Mac family would  at least touch base with the 1970s, acquire  gemstones, and come back.  it was nice to see them think of home only to find out they were home.  The episode prior reinforced that, especially  with neither of them having any family in the 1970s. 

Lionel and his men  fought with the men  of the Ridge against the Regulators. How stupid do you have to be to abduct the Colonel’s wife?  How stupid is the brother to threaten Jamie?

I can’t say anything about the gang rape that hasn’t already been said.  I’m really tired of the show portraying a large portion of the  men of 200 years ago in this manner. 

So now I have almost two years to wait until Season 6 comes to Netflix. I hope I remember the plot by then 
 

Edited September 3, 2022 by mythoughtis

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I really thought the Roger Mac family would  at least touch base with the 1970s, acquire  gemstones, and come back.  it was nice to see them think of home only to find out they were home.  The episode prior reinforced that, especially  with neither of them having any family in the 1970s. 

Lionel and his men  fought with the men  of the Ridge against the Regulators. How stupid do you have to be to abduct the Colonel’s wife?  How stupid is the brother to threaten Jamie?

I can’t say anything about the gang rape that hasn’t already been said.  I’m really tired of the show portraying a large portion of the  men of 200 years ago in this manner. 

So now I have almost two years to wait until Season 6 comes to Netflix. I hope I remember the plot by then 
 

If you're in the USA, you can get a cheapo deal on Starz and watch S06 now! Then you'll be all caught up to the rest of us. They run really cheap 6 mo. deals all the time.

[mythoughtis]

7 hours ago, gingerella said:

If you're in the USA, you can get a cheapo deal on Starz and watch S06 now! Then you'll be all caught up to the rest of us. They run really cheap 6 mo. deals all the time.

I am in the USA.  I will check into that.  A cheap deal last Christmas is why we currently have Hulu.  I keep thinking my spouse and I should cut the cable cord and go to Hulu live.  I just haven’t done it. 
 

Edited September 3, 2022 by mythoughtis

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I am in the USA.  I will check into that.  A cheap deal last Christmas is why we currently have Hulu.  I keep thinking my spouse and I should cut the cable cord and go to Hulu live.  I just haven’t done it. 
 

Or I would suggest getting Starz as an Amazon prime channel, paying for the month after the season airs and watching it! You can cancel once you’re done. 
 

I have enjoyed your comments and getting to remember the previous seasons.

I was reluctant to cut the cord too- a friend putting me on Discovery+ was the tipping point.(yes I had cable and a bunch of other streaming services before that) Best thing I did. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I am in the USA.  I will check into that.  A cheap deal last Christmas is why we currently have Hulu.  I keep thinking my spouse and I should cut the cable cord and go to Hulu live.  I just haven’t done it. 
 

I have Spectrum, and adding Starz Encore to my package only costs an additional $9 per month, plus as Scarlett45 said it's easy to cancel. If you're in New York (and not NYC) like I am, then you also get pro-rated for the rest of the month if you cancel before it's over, but not if you're in another state or NYC.

10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I can’t say anything about the gang rape that hasn’t already been said.  I’m really tired of the show portraying a large portion of the  men of 200 years ago in this manner.

I wouldn't say that. The men who commit rape in this show are explicitly scalawags, scoundrels, ruffians, outlier cases, dregs of society. Unfortunately, Claire and her family run into such people multiple times.

[Cdh20]

8 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I am in the USA.  I will check into that.  A cheap deal last Christmas is why we currently have Hulu.  I keep thinking my spouse and I should cut the cable cord and go to Hulu live.  I just haven’t done it. 
 

I haven’t got my hubby convinced to get rid of cable because of sports which need to be live on a big screen Tv, despite all the streaming services we now have 😂😂.

[andidante]

I have Hulu live and love it as I can still watch my football! It saves me a lot of money also compared to what I had to pay for cable 

[mythoughtis]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:11 AM, Scarlett45 said:

Or I would suggest getting Starz as an Amazon prime channel, paying for the month after the season airs and watching it! You can cancel once you’re done. 

I finally did just that today.  $1.99 a month for 3 months before the full rate kicks in.   So I watched season 6 Episode 1 today

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I finally did just that today.  $1.99 a month for 3 months before the full rate kicks in.   So I watched season 6 Episode 1 today

Oh fun! Looking forward to reading your posts. 

[Scout Finch]

Disassociation with The Association.

[lovinbob]

Groovy Murtagh was my favorite! Loved seeing that! 

Same with Marsali and Fergus -- so gorgeous! 

[Maisiesmom]

Well, this season was a trip. I may be dealing with some Droughtlander since Netflix only has seasons 1 thru 5 and I burned thru those in less than a month! But, I'm retired so what if my house is a mess LOL! I have grown to love these characters and while some of the stuff seemed hokey or not really going to happen, I still enjoyed it. At least Roger worked thru his PTSD, Ian has really become a man, and Marsali is the badass woman of the year! Fergus must have some super sperm with her being pregnant all the time. And giving birth alone! Yikes!I loved it when she stuck Lionel in the neck and killed his ass. Fucker had it coming. And who knew a hand job could bring a dying man back to life? Way to go, Claire! I also enjoyed the flashbacks to the 60's house and everyone looking cool in the more modern clothes and hair. I think I will try and see if I can swap out  one of my other cable stations to get Starz so I can keep watching. I just hope there is no more rape for awhile. Kind of getting tired of all this raping going on. And kudos to the make-up artist who did Claires body after the assault. Those bruises looked very real. So, if anything happens for me, I will re-join all of you. Toodles!