Book to Show: Compare and Contrast

[Humbugged]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They could be dealing it out slow since there's about a billion characters and don't want to overwhelm the audience. I don't even remember when Av first appears. 

Book 3 . The Wonder Girls meet her as they are heading to Tear and Nyn save her cousin who dies a few few episodes later when they save them from the Fade . Then with Mat and Juilin when he is trying to get into the Stone

Edited December 8, 2021 by Humbugged

[staphdude]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:44 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I got nothing there. Again, goes to show any investment I had in the Whitecloaks. I mean, they're basically the Spanish Inquisition, and when I read the books, I wasn't expecting that. 

However, being not affiliated with a sovereign entity; Andor, Illian, etc., they're just a bunch of incels. Someone like the Prophet, I can buy. People joined up with Logain, and there was a false Dragon iirc even in Hawkwing's times. 

 

 

Incel is a bit harsh imo. The Aes Sedai, have no one providing objective oversight so there is a reactionary response to this unfettered power

On 12/4/2021 at 10:35 PM, Humbugged said:

Well Reddit continues to be nuts . They now want the whole cast sacked along with .the show runner ,Harriet and  Brandon .It should have been an anime apparently

TWoP and this site are often a source of snark and complaints about the nature of a program most of which don't have well a established canon to draw from or mess up. Perhaps it is a response to the places where people are apologists for the changes, pacing or interpretation of a story with which many people have a long and personal history.

[DoctorAtomic]

No, I just think they're anti-woman because they never had girlfriends. If dudes were channeling clean, they'd be all up their ass, and any of them would sell out their brother to be bonded as a warder.

And I'm not an Aes proponent per se, from an organizational standpoint. I see them more as the church in medieval times. I was glad they had some other groups in the books. 

[munchiewoman]

I was initially disappointed with the new change to Moraine and Siuan, but only because I loved Gareth Bryne and I'm wondering how that will play, but they sold me. Two strong women who love each other and sacrifice for the sake of the world. Also loved Moiraine's," Siuan Sanche waits for one woman and that woman is not you" burn.

I can see why some book fans have a problem with this, but for me, it's like characters I love and a story I love told in a whole new way. I know that I don't really know exactly what is going to happen and I kind of love it.

Also, Egwene's face falling when it turned out Nynaeve is the strong one made me laugh.

Not sure I like that they can't sense the ability to channel anymore.. but then they never properly explained how someone could mask that either. They've simplified some things for the limited time they have and they've have done it brilliantly, in my opinion.

 

[quarks]

Is it wrong that the more this departs from the books, the more I'm enjoying it? Loved the blink and you'll miss it intro to Tear. 

Though I have a lot of questions - starting with, why, of all the Blue Sisters/Sitters with speaking parts in the book, did the show go with Maigan - someone I had to look up to identify? I get why not Sheriam, since she has another role, and Moira, since Moira turned out to be Black, but why not Lelaine, Lyrelle or Anaiya? 

But also, great setup for how easy it is for people to, you know, just walk away from the Tower - Nynaeve, Egwene, Elaine and Min in book two; Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elaine in book three; and Siuan, Liane, and Min in book five. I mean, Liandrin does this huge LOOK AT NYNAEVE thing and meanwhile Nynaeve is just strolling back and forth to the inn, and then just takes off on a nice horse. 

 

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, munchiewoman said:

I was initially disappointed with the new change to Moraine and Siuan, but only because I loved Gareth Bryne and I'm wondering how that will play, but they sold me.

Moiraine's "death" does grant a window of opportunity for the show to move forward with Siuan/Gareth (and then Moiraine/Thom, if the show wants to keep the book endgames). But even if the show had never decided to make the books' subtext about Moiraine and Siuan overt, any Siuan/Gareth pairing it does would be very different from the books. A lot of what Jordan wrote for them is a nonstarter 20+ years later.

Maybe the show will decide to end with two polyamorous quads instead of one...

[Danny Franks]

So the man that Liandrin meets in Northharbour is definitely a Darkfriend, and someone higher than her in the pecking order too, I'd guess. I'm sure Moiraine thinks it's a romantic liaison, and that Liandrin just wouldn't want her fellow Reds finding out.

I'm all about Moiraine and Siuan as a couple, and love the way it was portrayed in this episode. Yes, there are lots of skim book readers who completely failed to realise that their relationship is canon, even if it appeared to be over by the time TEOTW takes place, and they're predictably outraged over "wokeness!!" 

The Mat change is obviously due to Barney Harris not returning to shoot the last two episodes, and it sucks because that was an inelegant way of leaving him behind, but they didn't have much option. It makes me very curious to see how the rest of the season, and the start of season two, will play out, without Mat and the dagger.

I also wonder if they'll have Siuan come to Fal Dara and meet Rand. I really hope they do, because I want more Moiraine/Siuan scenes but also because the scene where Rand meets the Amyrlin Seat is tremendous in the books.

[DoctorAtomic]

16 hours ago, quarks said:

Is it wrong that the more this departs from the books, the more I'm enjoying it?

This was the only way the show was going to be successful imo.

I'm going to watch tonight, but I don't care if I'm spoiled since I know basically what happens. This is like a sneak preview for me beforehand. 

15 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Moiraine's "death" does grant a window of opportunity for the show to move forward with Siuan/Gareth (and then Moiraine/Thom, if the show wants to keep the book endgames).

I don't know that either pairing is essential to the story. Basically, Mat can still go rescue Moiraine. His motivation could simply be that Rand is having a tough go of it getting everyone together because literally everyone is just so pissy, and bringing her back as a familiar face from the beginning would help. Thom could help him out. 

tbh, I don't know how they are going to pull off the whole Tower side plot without sucking the energy out of the whole show. Television narratively, it's a nightmare. There's never any real in-universe explanation why the Tower even exists. 

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

Yes, there are lots of skim book readers who completely failed to realise that their relationship is canon

I'm not a skim book reader and it completely flew by me. I don't care either way. I didn't know what pillow friends was either. Makes sense to me. 

 

[Danny Franks]

I really hated the Moiraine/Thom pairing in the books, because it was just so tacked on. Yes, there were bits and pieces to set it up, but the POV structure of the novels meant there was never any depth or complexity to it at all. And the way Sanderson wrote it smacked of 'everyone gets paired up!' and nothing else.

Show Thom is definitely more interesting, but I don't see any reason for him and Moiraine to meet and get together. 

As for Siuan and Bryne? Let's not have a 'romance' that revolves around the man subjugating the woman and forcing her to do chores until she gives in and admits she actually loves him.

I also don't like the subtext of them ending up in straight relationships after having a 'gay phase'. Let them be completely committed to one another and without any other romantic interest. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I really hated the Moiraine/Thom pairing in the books, because it was just so tacked on. Yes, there were bits and pieces to set it up, but the POV structure of the novels meant there was never any depth or complexity to it at all. And the way Sanderson wrote it smacked of 'everyone gets paired up!' and nothing else.

Show Thom is definitely more interesting, but I don't see any reason for him and Moiraine to meet and get together. 

As for Siuan and Bryne? Let's not have a 'romance' that revolves around the man subjugating the woman and forcing her to do chores until she gives in and admits she actually loves him.

I also don't like the subtext of them ending up in straight relationships after having a 'gay phase'. Let them be completely committed to one another and without any other romantic interest. 

I always felt that Moiraine and Thom had potential.....right up until they reached Sanderson.

Who, yes, absolutely wrote it as "everyone gets paired up," taking them straight from vicious word interplay (their last scene together in book four before Moiraine's "death") to here we are, cuddling together. I get that she presumably wrote something in that letter to him, and that her "death" and draining by the Foxes and Snakes sped up certain realizations, but it also just felt to me like several steps had been jumped over.

Not to mention the issue that Thom is consistently described as old, and even if Moiraine is still bound to the Oath Rod and thus a shorter life, their time together is presumably not going to be that long.

....ok, maybe that explains jumping over several steps. No time to waste!

Anyway, the show doesn't seem to be in a rush to introduce them.

[Kate47]

I mean, bisexual people exist. If they're going full poly with Rand's relationships, I don't see why they can't make Siuan and/or Moiraine bi.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Kate47 said:

I mean, bisexual people exist. If they're going full poly with Rand's relationships, I don't see why they can't make Siuan and/or Moiraine bi.

They can, and there is already an issue of bi erasure in media that upsets a lot of people. But showing two women together then having them both 'settle down' with men is still a heteronormative message that would be seen as problematic.

Especially when one of the men has had the woman do his washing and cleaning for months, before she gives in and admits her feelings for him.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Atlanta]

I think the Gareth and Siuan thing can be handled tactfully. The writers could make it comedic. 

I love Thom and hope he's not side-lined.

[Kate47]

I also am not opposed to Moiraine and Siuan being each other's only love interest! You could tell the depth of feeling they had for each other, and my hope is that the show doesn't just brush that off if they are paired with men later on.

[munchiewoman]

I don't know, I didn't think of Gareth as subjugating Siuan, and there's nothing wrong with washing someone's clothes. Could it be handled a bit more tactfully, as Atlanta said? Yes, as they've handled most of the male/female stuff, which is to get rid of the "you're just a stupid man" sniffing woman crap and the "I don't get these crazy women" male comments.

But,  they've convinced me Moiraine and Siuan love each other, so I don't really want to see them with anyone else. Though I could be on board for the quad. I'm sure they could convince me of that as well.

I'm kind of missing the Flame ... we've seen the dragon's fang several times, but I expected to at least see the Flame above the Seat. Are they not going to keep the yin-yang for the seals?

I wonder why they decided horses can't go through the Ways? Why did they decide to open them with the power instead of the leaf? WTF  with thinking the Dark One is at tEotW?? 

[txvoodoo]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

They can, and there is already an issue of bi erasure in media that upsets a lot of people. But showing two women together then having them both 'settle down' with men is still a heteronormative message that would be seen as problematic.

Um, no. That's basically a perfectly valid life choice for bi people. It was mine. I'm now a widow, and am still bi. I just spent 25 years married to a man. If I do partner up again, there's an equal chance of a partner being of either gender, or gender fluid. 

[Which Tyler]

5 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

But,  they've convinced me Moiraine and Siuan love each other, so I don't really want to see them with anyone else. Though I could be on board for the quad. I'm sure they could convince me of that as well.

If they decompress the time line, so that each season is a good year or so, then I'd have no problem with Siuan pairing up again. It would need to be handled more sensitively than in the books though - but so does pretty much ever interaction between the genders, romatic or otherwise.

We'd be talking about a time a few years after Moiraine "dies" after all. We don't expect widows to be forever celibate in the real world after all.
 

5 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

I'm kind of missing the Flame ... we've seen the dragon's fang several times, but I expected to at least see the Flame above the Seat. Are they not going to keep the yin-yang for the seals?

We saw the yin-yang on Siuan's burned home in this episode - though I expected to see it, or just the flame, in the hall of the tower (possible I just missed it, I've only seen it the once, whilst tired from a long day)
 

5 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

I wonder why they decided horses can't go through the Ways? Why did they decide to open them with the power instead of the leaf? WTF  with thinking the Dark One is at tEotW?? 

"Never work with children or animals" - and I suspect that goes double for indoor sets and green screens.

No idea - it's a change I instinctively dislike, but trust there's a reason for it; it may just take a while for that reason to become apparent. Equally, given that change - why do they need Loial in their fellowship?

TBF, there are plenty of times in the book where a forsaken gave the impression of being the Dark One in dreams. The question is what happened to Siuan's wards that she was able to be sent a dream? and why would she trust information gained through a dream, seemingly absent any corroborating evidence.

[munchiewoman]

3 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Equally, given that change - why do they need Loial in their fellowship?

Didn't he read the guideposts within the Ways?  

I also think that yes, it was probably a production reason for the horses. It looked to me as though they were making the Ways very cramped and claustrophobic, which would have been even more difficult with horses.

I couldn't find it, but isn't the fact that the Dark One is imprisoned at Shayol Ghul part of a children's mantra in the books? Plus, what does that say for the Blight? The people fighting the Blight have a strong, important history. They've cast Ingtar, so it should play a role, but how if the Dark One is at tEotW?  Unless tEotW is at the Blight and not changing location.

[Black Knight]

9 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

I don't know, I didn't think of Gareth as subjugating Siuan, and there's nothing wrong with washing someone's clothes.

It played especially badly because it came after Siuan being de-Amyrlin'd and stilled. It just came across to me as Jordan wanting to knock her down even lower. She was the most powerful woman in the world and now a guy's making her do laundry as if that is all she has to contribute anymore. She has a wealth of knowledge from having been Amyrlin but yuk, yuk, shut up and do laundry now. It's not about whether there's something wrong with doing laundry, but choice, agency and power. And about whether you're uplifting someone in their time of trouble or putting them down further in a way that smacks of "she needs to learn a lesson." And then to have her fall for the dude in question - eyeroll.

And then there's that Show Siuan is played by a Black woman in Sophie Okonedo. Obviously the character will have to be overthrown and stilled, far too much plot depends on that development, but they are not going to turn her into a maid afterwards. If Judkins does the Siuan/Gareth pairing, he is going to take a big scissors to that part of the story and write something completely different. Maybe with a bit of a meta nod, where Gareth jokes at one point that Siuan could do his laundry and she gives him a side eye and that's the end of it.

[munchiewoman]

It's been a while since I read the books, but I felt like a lot of what happened was because of Siuan's stubbornness, plus she did take full advantage of not being bound to truth and her newfound prettiness and youth. Just like I always felt Egwene was way too arrogant. This Egwene seems like she's going to be strong without that, so I'm looking forward to her journey. I much prefer the way they are handling all these strong women in the show. 

[ElizaD]

Does this thread have a spoiler policy for unofficial leaks/images/filming news? IIRC, the Game of Thrones Book to Show thread freely discussed filming and even leaked material (like the season 8 screencaps from episodes that hadn't yet aired). Putting spoilers just in case, a few moments of episodes 7-8 were leaked and they show

Spoiler

Rand/Egwene/Nynaeve doing huge channelling and a probable Ishamael, identified as actor Fares Fares, tempting Rand with a vision of married life with Egwene. I saw some speculation that the Forsaken would only be freed in the finale and I'm glad that a human Ishamael, at least, now seems to have been cast for season 1.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

There's a media thread. 

[DoctorAtomic]

With only 8 episodes, the last two were kind of running in place and could have been combined. I do agree that it was important to show the impact of the warder bond. But in this last one the only really main beat was for book readers to know that Moiraine and Siuan were in cahoots. I suppose knowing you have a second season allows you to slow it down. I think you could have had both. They could have started the next episode with them leaving the Tower and healing Mat and then going to the Ways. 

Then again, I've never been a fan of all the Tower nonsense. It's just a bunch of people making work for themselves while the world burns. Which, I suppose is actually real because that's basically the building I work in. 

Did everyone go to the Eye in the book? I forget when the girls took Mat to Falme.

I know there's real life reasons for Mat not going through the ways, but if there's any character that's going to look at the door opening up and saying, 'yeah no. I'm not going to follow some Aes through that or even my own mother,' it's Mat. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Danny Franks]

It makes sense from a narrative point of view for the events at the Eye to free the Forsaken. It was never really explained in the book why Aginor and Balthamel were already free.

It seems clear to me that Siuan's dreams of the Eye being the Dark One's prison are manipulations by Ishy, and he's actually luring them into a trap. I wish it had been mentioned before, though. It wasn't set up in the book and it hasn't been in the show either.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't recall an formalized 'freeing' of the forsaken. I thought the prison just got wonky because we're at the literal end of the world, and they just popped out. I didn't think anyone knew anything about foresaken until they got to Camleyn. 

Having all of them at the Eye is kind of weird. What are they going to do? Just run away? Or fight each other over taking the gang prisoner so they can bring the Dragon to the Dark One? 

It seems easier to just have them out in the world. Or have them find one of the seals broken and that's why. They don't technically exist anywhere, so they can just materialize anywhere in the world. 

It made sense to me that it was a trap, but the Dark One sent over the most expendable Forsaken to see how strong these people actually are and to figure out who the dragon actually is.

'So that one dude is probably the dragon and the short woman knows what's up. Ok, now we have to plan.'

[DoctorAtomic]

Oh i forgot they did mention the Foretelling. I was pleased about that. 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't recall an formalized 'freeing' of the forsaken. I thought the prison just got wonky because we're at the literal end of the world, and they just popped out. I didn't think anyone knew anything about foresaken until they got to Camleyn. 

 

Yeah, they all just weaselled their ways out, but we never really knew when. Aginor and Balthamel first, as Ishy was never fully trapped anyway. It was just explained as the "seals weakening."

But I do prefer it being something that our heroes accidentally set in motion at the Eye, set up by Ishy. We don't need to see them all there, but just have some kind of suggestion that they're going to break free.

[DoctorAtomic]

No, that's fine too. That's actually kind of better. A dose of reality for Moiraine and Siuan. I mean, I genuinely like the both of them, and really, good for them when the Foretelling happened that they grew up fast and went right to work. But, they're too arrogant. I know that's the point. I kind of wish they addressed that if the Dragon is a guy, they're going to be in a world of hurt with the taint and literally no one to train him. I suppose that can wait until they reveal Rand.  

I'm a little surprised Lan wasn't a bit more skeptical. It seems too easy. 

In the show here, she's taking who she thinks is the Dragon to the Eye to defeat the Dark One, but doesn't know who they are? What does she think is going to happen. Oh, Rand, turns out it's you; defeat Dark One nao. Actually freeing all of the Foresaken would be kind of hilarious. I think Rand and her still have to take the two of them out to show. Maybe Ny can help, but they need some kind of win to end the season on. 

I didn't realize they showed Gill before Moiraine healed Mat. 

I wonder if the 'Say what now, Sis?' that Liandrin said to Moiraine in front of Siuan was ad libbed. It was really funny, and Pike kind of gave a look. I have to say, they're knocking Liandrin out of the park. She wasn't ever a real person to me in the books. I suppose not a lot of characters were. I mean, yes, they should have waited to give Logain a trial, on paper. They didn't think he'd be strong enough to break the shield and kill one of them either. Everything got out of control fast, and I don't think she was actually wrong. He was going to kill his way out of there, and they're going to gentle him anyway. 

Were they implying Moiraine can weave Gateways to Siuan's room? Or was the picture on the wall some kind of angreal? Ah, the trivia says it is. Good work, trivia person. They included a snippet of information on the Foretelling too.

It was like this in the book, but it's kind of silly no one guesses that Moiraine is out looking for the Dragon. It's still kind of silly to me that they're saying all of them could be the Dragon, but I'm assuming is still playing out the same. Liandrin is probably the only one observant enough to put it together until Moiraine blackmailed her. 

I thought the Oath Rod was like this giant thing.

Edited December 12, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't remember that you have to channel to open the Ways. I thought there was some mechanism that anyone could use it. 

[ElizaD]

Surprisingly, Liandrin has been one of my favourite things about the show. The book version was a bit too obviously villainous but here it's more plausible that she's just a tough cookie who opposes Moiraine politically and can get the girls to leave Tar Valon with her. Now I wonder, maybe Liandrin looked so terrified when Moiraine revealed she knew about her man because she's been meeting Ishamael himself, not just a random Darkfriend. I thought we wouldn't see her again until season 2, but maybe the finale will have Ishamael's Darkfriend meeting from the book 2 prologue, with Liandrin present.

[MJ Frog]

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought the Oath Rod was like this giant thing.

Kinda more like a spirit stick, as it happens.

[Which Tyler]

15 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't remember that you have to channel to open the Ways. I thought there was some mechanism that anyone could use it. 

It's a change - for reasons not yet disclosed.

In the books, you move an avendesora leaf to a different place; and the gate can be locked by moving that leaf to the inside of the gate (IIRC - may be just removed completely).

 

As with most changes I can't see the reason before, I'm hanging fire before deciding on whether it's a good, bad or neutral change.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Which Tyler

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, ElizaD said:

Surprisingly, Liandrin has been one of my favourite things about the show.

I know. I'm continually amazed. Pointing out 'hey, this Ny girl is like super diesel, and she gets her all to herself?' I'd probably say the same thing. It's going to be great when she's revealed as a Darkfriend. 

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

In the books, you move an avendesora leaf to a different place; and the gate can be locked by moving that leaf to the inside of the gate (IIRC - may be just removed completely).

Yes. A leaf. The Portal Stones you have to channel. That seems an odd change. Then again, I suppose viewers would call bull that people wouldn't just be using them all the time. It might be hard to translate how foreboding they are. 

Or it would be hilarious if next week, Loial is like, 'How come you just didn't use the leaf?' 

[Which Tyler]

1 minute ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Yes. A leaf. The Portal Stones you have to channel. That seems an odd change. Then again, I suppose viewers would call bull that people wouldn't just be using them all the time. It might be hard to translate how foreboding they are. 

Or it would be hilarious if next week, Loial is like, 'How come you just didn't use the leaf?' 

For now I'll assume they're not going to bother with the portal stones - even though I thought I saw 1 or two in the previous couple of episodes

[DoctorAtomic]

I saw them too. I would think all of that is going to be cut out. The whole point was to meet Lanfear, but she can get shoved in somewhere else. Unless they have to use the stones to get to Falme. I don't remember if Moiraine and Rand split up after the Eye, but I remember Rand had to channel to get the stones to work. 

Maybe they'll use the stones and end up in Scotland!

[Humbugged]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I saw them too. I would think all of that is going to be cut out. The whole point was to meet Lanfear, but she can get shoved in somewhere else. Unless they have to use the stones to get to Falme. I don't remember if Moiraine and Rand split up after the Eye, but I remember Rand had to channel to get the stones to work. 

Maybe they'll use the stones and end up in Scotland!

Moraine goes off with Lan to find out more info ,him and the other 2 boys with Loial head south and meet Verin and Thom and the 4 girls get snagged into going west by Liandrin . Moraine catches up with them later

[DoctorAtomic]

The girls were also dragging Mat with them, and that seems out now. If they're all going to the Eye now, it's going to be hard for Liandrin to take them somewhere else since Moiraine is officially banned. There's no reason for them to go back. That throws most of Great Hunt out, it would seem. 

Oh, what are they going to do with Mat and the Horn then? That's an epic scene at Falme. I would think they'd want that in there still. 

 

[Which Tyler]

53 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Oh, what are they going to do with Mat and the Horn then? That's an epic scene at Falme. I would think they'd want that in there still.

Beyond that 1 scene, I'm happy for the horn to be entirely absent.

Given that we need massive MASSIVE cuts to reduce a 460 hour audiobook into a 48 day series, I'm happy to loose that one scene as well.
There must be other ways to bring Faile and Birgitte into the story.

Strong suspicion that most of books 2 & 3 will be combined into Season 2 as well - so 50 hour audiobook into 8 hour series

Edited December 13, 2021 by Which Tyler

[DoctorAtomic]

No Horn at all?! 

The appearance of the Horn and the related hunt is one of the signposts that yes, the end is really coming. There's so much rearranging of the deck chairs that Rand can't get anything done because no one thinks it's really The End. 

The entire scene at the last battle where Mat says, 'well, we'll pull back and let you do your thing,' and Hawkwing replies, 'yeah, no' is hilarious because Mat's so exhausted. 

tbh, I take the point on its overall real relevance, but for viewers, it's actually good world building imo. There's still some chatter about what the Wheel actually is, and this is a good way to get that across. Plus, at the end, Jain ends up coming out too for the first time. 

I'm ALL for excising TONS from the books, but this is something that would be a lot of fun to keep in. 

[Danny Franks]

I think most of The Great Hunt still works without Mat.

They go to the Eye, fight Ishy and figure out Rand is the Dragon Reborn. Then back to Fal Dara, where they hang out in the off-season before Fain or some other Darkfriends steal the Horn. 

Egwene and Nynaeve go to the White Tower, probably with Min as she's at Fal Dara in the show, and they enlist as novices/accepted and meet Elayne.

Rand and Perrin go after the Horn with Ingtar and co. I'm not sure what Moiraine does, as she spent most of The Great Hunt studying with two other Aes Sedai. But one of the reasons Rand was eager to go with Ingtar was to get away from Moiraine and the rest of the Aes Sedai, so they could throw that bit out and just have her go along with them.

In the book, Mat went with them because Fain stole the dagger as well as the Horn, then went to Tar Valon with the girls in book three. My prediction for him is that he gets to have some scoundrel adventures with Thom - which would be brought forward from book three - until they meet up with Rand again in Cairhien. Where Mat will have some serious 'splainin' to do as to why he dumped his friends as they believed they were going to fight the Dark One.

There was speculation that the Seanchan were going to invade Tear, and the show would combine the Horn/Callandor journeys into one. But Maigan talked about "ships disappearing in the west" so I think that confirms they're still landing at Falme.

[Which Tyler]

From the episode 5 thread: 

10 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Valda's general unconcern with actually being channelled at is weird. I don't think he really believed Egwene was Aes Sedai, but when he saw that she did seem to be building towards channelling, he wasn't worried at all. Does he really believe the Light will protect him from witches?

There's a theory that he's got a fox-head medallion - and is possibly the source for Mat's

[DoctorAtomic]

If he had a medallion, then there's no need to cut off their hands though. 

Eh, her hands were tied, and he surmised correctly that she wasn't really Aes or she would have tried something. He also tortured Perrin, and if he was her warder she would have physically reacted. 

Now, that's highly arrogant because if it was Ny, she might have nuked the entire camp. He doesn't know the larger picture though. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Which Tyler]

24 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

If he had a medallion, then there's no need to cut off their hands though. 

Eh, her hands were tied, and he surmised correctly that she wasn't really Aes or she would have tried something. He also tortured Perrin, and if he was her warder she would have physically reacted. 

Now, that's highly arrogant because if it was Ny, she might have nuked the entire camp. He doesn't know the larger picture though. 

I'm not a fan of that theory - but IF it stands...

AS would have an easy way around it - as shown by the Wise Women vs Mat.

Besides, the medallion would only protect Valda himself, not the rest of his camp.

 

Besides, he's a comically evil sadistic arsehole - and that's probably reason enough for him

Edited December 13, 2021 by Which Tyler

[Humbugged]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The girls were also dragging Mat with them, and that seems out now. If they're all going to the Eye now, it's going to be hard for Liandrin to take them somewhere else since Moiraine is officially banned. There's no reason for them to go back. That throws most of Great Hunt out, it would seem. 

Oh, what are they going to do with Mat and the Horn then? That's an epic scene at Falme. I would think they'd want that in there still. 

 

That is book 3 after Falme . And of course the 2 girls have to go back to the Tower as they still have to be trained and meet Elayne and her brothers

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I have no sense of time. I thought they all dragged Mat to Falme in Great Hunt. I don't have much in between Falme and Callendor. I totally forgot they were up in the Waste with Uno and them for a while. 

36 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

I'm not a fan of that theory - but IF it stands...

AS would have an easy way around it - as shown by the Wise Women vs Mat.

Besides, the medallion would only protect Valda himself, not the rest of his camp.

 

Besides, he's a comically evil sadistic arsehole - and that's probably reason enough for him

To be fair to captured Aes, they probably didn't have enough time to figure out about the medallion if he had one what with the intense pain of having their hands cut off. Which is ridiculous that they're trained that way. I hope some of the Foresaken totally rip on that.

They should be able to see the weaves get sucked in to the medallion too. It looked like Egwene tried to channel some fire something and it just fizzled out because she doesn't know what she's doing. Although she didn't use her hands. 

I can't find any screenshots of him with anything around his neck. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Humbugged]

12 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I have no sense of time. I thought they all dragged Mat to Falme in Great Hunt. I don't have much in between Falme and Callendor. I totally forgot they were up in the Waste with Uno and them for a while. 

To be fair to captured Aes, they probably didn't have enough time to figure out about the medallion if he had one what with the intense pain of having their hands cut off. Which is ridiculous that they're trained that way. I hope some of the Foresaken totally rip on that.

They should be able to see the weaves get sucked in to the medallion too. It looked like Egwene tried to channel some fire something and it just fizzled out because she doesn't know what she's doing. Although she didn't use her hands. 

I can't find any screenshots of him with anything around his neck. 

Book 2 - Eggy,Nyn are in the Tower (after Nyn gets into a channeling fight with Siuan) after The Boys had already left with the Fal Dara crew to chase the Horn and the dagger ,where the girls meet Elayne and Min and then Liandrin pulls her shit

Meanwhile the Boys head south to Cairhien where they re-meet Thom and Verin and they then use a Portal Stone to get to Toman Head

----------------------------------------

Book 3 - Eggy,Nyn,Elayne and Verin are taking nearly dead Mat back to the Tower to be healed and are then sent out as Siuan's spies where they meet Avi

Rand goes wandering , Perrin meets (SWSNBN) , Mat find his luck and Thom

All meet at the end and Callendor falls to Rand

[DoctorAtomic]

7 minutes ago, Humbugged said:

SWSNBN

Figures. That I remember. 

[Humbugged]

Wash the spears - while the sun climbs high.
Wash the spears - while the sun falls low.
Wash the spears - Who fears to die?
Wash the spears - No one I know!
Wash the spears - while life holds true.
Wash the spears - until life ends.
Wash the spears - Life is a dream.
Wash the spears - All dreams must end.
Wash the spears - till shade is gone
Wash the spears - till water turns dry.
Wash the spears - How long from home?
Wash the spears - Until I die!
Wash the spears - till sun grows cold.
Wash the spears - till water runs free.
Wash the spears...
Wash the spears - while I breathe.
Wash the spears - my steel is bright.
Wash the spears...

Goodbye Tigraine

life is a dream - that knows no shade

life is a dream - of pain and woe

a dream from which - we pray to wake

a dream from which - we wake and go

Edited December 17, 2021 by Humbugged

[Danny Franks]

A change from the books that I absolutely, unreservedly love - Tam being there to help Shaiel give birth.

It always made me so sad, to think of her dying there alone, not knowing her baby would live and having no one to comfort her.

She had a tough life and I'm so happy that there was someone to hold her hand, at the end. The Light bless Tam al'Thor, for being such a good man.

[SueB]

*Takes a deep breath*

also /rant mode engaged — jump down to post /rant mode to bypass 

I thought it was some fake out.  I didn’t realize the actor for Mat didn’t FINISH S1!

I know he’s back for S2.  

I certainly hope there was no real life tragedy that drove this major (IMO) change.  Mat is flat out my favorite character. And if there was some avoidable reason for this then I’m pissed.  These actor contracts should be solid for 5 years (typically). So… again, I hope it was not a tragedy but I wish they would have recast straight away rather than screw up the character. 
 

Of course I’ve mentally rewritten the storyline to sort of make it work, but it’s still damaging to Mat’s character. I’m pissed Moraine said that he had darkness that drew him to the dagger.  I disagree.  Mat has many flaws(foolish, stubborn, etc..)but he was never actually dark. But even before the Moraines comment, they’ve made him a thief.  Grrrr. 

Taking away the shared experiences to and at Eye of The World bums me out.  
 

I hope they have Mat get healed more completely at Tar Valon and get him back to hunting the horn. 
 

/rantmode off. 
 

I DID like Rand figuring it out scene. Still love Lan/Nynaeve.