S01.E05: Bellweather Season

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Abigail brings the unit to a High Atlantic wedding, in hopes of increasing their odds for War College; Abigail struggles under family pressures, while Raelle leans on Scylla; Tally makes a discovery that will alter the future of the unit.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/15/20

[UNOSEZ]

Im sorry.. But Raelle is a real shitbird... Way to be supremely whipped to the point of madness... The utter lack of respect she's had for Abigail is beyond flagrant... And I feel like the show is trying to push me to believe "there's good ppl on both sides"...  But bump that she invites you to a huge thing that has real ramifications for your future.. Extremely beneficial and you throw a fit cuz you can't invite the girlfriend... Then said girlfriend shows up anyway and you don't have the decency to apologize or even check your girl.. You just run off... She runs up on Abigail's mom in front of tons of ppl and presses her... Abigail almost gets killed.. She's saying her cousin was murdered.. Other ppl are injured and not a word of concern or care... And that's just this epi... She's been shitty since episode one and for the life of me I really don't remember what all Abigail has done that was so bad.... 

For the rest of the epi... Rough.. Spree ain't no joke... I hope scylla isn't dead I need her to face some repercussions and I need Raelle to see what she really is... Gut punch to tally... But she's a bit too intense anyway maybe this will sober her up... 

I saw Anacostia noticed when momma bellweather and the Asian officer were complaining about Alder... So not everyone is happy with her.. But I guess Costia as a foundling is really indebted to her... Interesting to see how that plays

[GaT]

I am very tired of Scylla, I wish she would just be unmasked already. 

I don't understand what those balloons are, & what result they're trying to get.

[ursula]

I am tired of Raelle. She’s a jerk, and not in a nice way and the show needs to stop selling her exploitative romance with a terrorist as “twu wuv”.

Abigail and her mom kicking ass back to back was awesome. Now I see what those weighted lassoes are for.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, GaT said:

I don't understand what those balloons are, & what result they're trying to get.

The Spree place their spoken spells in anything that can hold air, and anyone within hearing range when the "container" pops is subjected to the spell. They use balloons most often, probably because balloons are light and can float into the attack area, but we saw them use a pool floatie and we heard of them using a water bottle.

The balloons in the mirror are standing in for whomever is giving Scylla instructions. As we learned in the pilot, The Spree is "composed of parallel hierarchies, clandestine cell systems designed to collapse under scrutiny." The fewer faces any one member can identify, the better, so communicating via balloon makes sense.

Their grand goal is apparently to dismantle the global military industrial complex and liberate witches from the forced conscription that results in the army owning them from age 18 until death, which actually seems like a noble goal. All the murder's not so great. (The people in charge of the army claim this talk of liberation is just a distraction to hide The Spree's true goal, but of course the military would say that.)

As for why they want Raelle specifically, we don't know that yet.

[Cranberry]

Interesting that witch marriages only last five years because there aren't enough men to go around. Are most children female?

Also, witch culture really sucks. Hit 18 and the military owns you until you die. If you're lucky, you get to be a specialist of some sort instead of front line fodder. If you fall in love with someone of the opposite sex, they're only yours for five years and in that time you're expected to pop out some children to be used as future soldiers. Even people who aren't into heterosexual sex have to do it anyway to replenish the gene pool. Aside from all the murder, I'm with the Spree -- disassemble this shit.

I liked seeing Abigail confront her privilege in this episode. I guess all she can do now is make sure she feels worthy of War College despite having a guaranteed admission. Seeing her and her mom fighting back to back was great -- there were some neat moves in there.

It was way too early for any of the I love yous in this episode. Scylla I can maaaaybe see, as at least she's spent more time with Raelle and knows about her history and family, but Tally and Gerit know basically nothing about each other. Tally herself said in this episode that everything Gerit has said to her came from the codices! How do you go from "is this even your real personality" to "I love you" in the same conversation?

We're halfway through season one already! Glad they finished production last year so we'll get to see it all without the coronavirus interfering.

[Featherhat]

The thing is the Spree's goal might be noble but the way they're going about it, causing terror on a global scale, practically ensuring that being conscripted = death sentence as soon as you finish training and turning people against witches in general seems supremely counter productive. People feeling desperate and under attack don't dismantle military industrial complexes. Unless they want the President to take control away from General Alder and start using conventional weapons more leaving witches not in the military that way. 

I agree 100% witch culture is pretty terrible apart from maybe Beltane and is probably about to collapse in on itself but the Spree seem more of an apocalyptic death cult like some real world extremists and not anything that's going to provide long term peace for witchkind. 

Pretty sure they're going all in on Raelle/Scylla for maximum pain and shock once it's revealed. Also to justify both Raelle's possible defection and later Scylla's redemption arc. Which isn't working for me since we've known from episode 1 that she's playing her and gaslighting her. 

I still think someone else that we've seen fairly high up is going to be revealed to be the Spree "leader". 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Featherhat

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While I understand Raelle's reluctance to go to a high society wedding where people would (maybe) look down on her, part of her job (because being in the military is a job) is to be part of her unit. Yes, this was an optional activity, unlike training, but it's shitty to flake AND it's also separately shitty to decide not to go because you'd rather stay behind and make out with your girlfriend all weekend (because let's be real).

And as a wise person once said, a guest of a guest doesn't get to invite a guest. This isn't happy hour at Friday's. This is a fancy catered event so you shouldn't be asking to bring your girlfriend along. Why is it so hard to suck it up and go to what is essentially a work event for a day? I know you're young and in love, but you CAN live a whole day apart.

Also crappy: once Scylla showed up, Raelle basically ditched Tally (which is even crappier considering that one of her excuses for wanting to invite Scylla is that she wouldn't have anyone to talk to).

When the balloon kept insisting that Scylla needed to be at the wedding, I wondered why she didn't just use the fire face trick to be there. If the spree just needed someone to get Raelle to a certain location at a specific time, it didn't have to be Scylla. They could have had someone pose as the wait staff and tell Raelle that Abigail's mother or the dean wanted to speak with her. 

Although Abigail can be a bit intense, I do like that she wants to succeed on her own merits and prove that she's the best soldier rather than relying on her mother's name. A lot of people in her position would choose to coast so it's admirable that she wants to put in the work.

I loved seeing Abigail and her mother kick ass together. And after all this build up, it was cool to see the older witches do their magic to get rid of the balloons. It's one thing to see the girls training but it's another to see that training put into action.

In the previous episode, my ears pricked up when Abigail mentioned that "all of her fathers" would be at the wedding so I'm glad they explained the five year marriage system in this episode (because I was imagining some sort of witch polygamist thing).

On a shallow note, the actress who played Abigail's cousin was pretty but a terrible actress so I'm glad we won't be seeing her again.

Sorry, show, you can't redeem Scylla to me now. I spent half the season watching her lie to Raelle so I don't care if she's had a change of heart and has feelings for her now.

For some reason, I thought Anacostia saw one of the balloons when they were inspecting rooms after Scylla's ex died so when Tally went running to her to tell her about Scylla and the balloon, I thought Anacostia was going to try to kill her.

Edited April 16, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clips

Raelle Confronts Petra Bellweather

Abigail Questions Charvel About Marriage

Raylla Exchange Gifts

 

[UNOSEZ]

Maybe Raelle's mom isn't dead.. But is alive and with the spree and that's why they seem so hell bent on getting to her. 

[meatball77]

I thought they wanted Raelle because she's so powerful.  Her healing ability shows the basis of her strong power.

[UNOSEZ]

1 minute ago, meatball77 said:

I thought they wanted Raelle because she's so powerful.  Her healing ability shows the basis of her strong power.

But have they shown her to be so much stronger than any of the other two in her unit?...  Tho I guess getting a true believer like Tally or a bellweather like Abigail was outta the question 

[meatball77]

I think her healing ability (which is probably also a killing ability) is unusual.

[ursula]

It’s only unusual because it’s “country magic” not conventional, Salem-trainer magic.  Raelle is literally taking on her victim’s wounds which I’m guessing is not how most people prefer to practise witch medicine. Which makes her badass (“that bravery cannot be taught”) under all the layers of childishness and rebellion, but doesn’t mean she has Powahs.

At least, I hope so. No Mary Sues please. 
 

 

The Witch military industrial complex is like a hybrid between our real life military complex and prison industrial complex, but with glamour and prestige coated over those invisible bars. Unlike real life though, witches aren’t an imagined threat. They’re a real one. It’s Mutant Registration all over again. Sure, people have the right to live the way G-d made them but if a kid in my child’s school can whistle her classmates dead if she has a tantrum, I’d like to know about it. The witches via Adler traded their existence for service. They get to live without persecution and even be treated like superheroes (see the reaction at the airport to Tally) in exchange for serving their country with their powers. It’s a way for the Muggles to control witches - because if all witches are soldiers that keeps them from turning magic on Muggles - and a way for witches to exist unpersecuted. And yes, it sucks but it could be worse.

The Spree’s methods are already f**k-d up (Yeah, don’t see how attacking a party of witches and ripping out a witch’s vocal cords shows you’re fighting to free witches and will get any witch to rally around you) but what is worse is their endgame is unrealistic. Muggles are already starting to turn against all witches because of the Spree. What do they think will happen once forced conscription ends? Or have they forgotten that all this started because Muggles were burning witches?

Edited April 16, 2020 by ursula

[AnimeMania]

I really was disappointed at how close the fight was between a seasoned highly decorated best of the bunch military war witch versus two wait staff. And she had the home field advantage, the witches don't have any protective spells in their homes? It seems like the wait staff figured out a way to neutralize the witch's powers so wouldn't it be simple to have some kind of defenses in place around the house. There wasn't even a way to stop the spree from using the mirrors to communicate.

[luckyroll3]

9 hours ago, Cranberry said:

The Spree place their spoken spells in anything that can hold air, and anyone within hearing range when the "container" pops is subjected to the spell. They use balloons most often, probably because balloons are light and can float into the attack area, but we saw them use a pool floatie and we heard of them using a water bottle.

I clearly missed this explanation in from prior episodes, so thank you for the information.  I was just assuming that the Spree were working in conjunction with It.  

6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Maybe Raelle's mom isn't dead.. But is alive and with the spree and that's why they seem so hell bent on getting to her. 

This was my thought as well.  That Raelle's mom got left for dead after a botched mission and she as someone who was already disillusioned with the military, joined the other side.

[Indigo Luna]

No, show, I'm not going to suddenly have sympathy for the lying terrorist because of "lurrrve". They don't have as much chemistry as they want us to believe. Raelle acted like a selfish brat when she got told she couldn't bring her girlfriend to the wedding. Her whole storyline bores me to tears I'm so much more invested in Tally and Abigails stories. 

[TiffanyNichelle]

So they start the Scylla redemption story. Y'all she really loves Raelle so she didn't take her to the meeting place and is most likely being forced to work with the Spree and isn't she great now? Meanwhile Raelle's back on that bullshit that made me not like her so much in the first two episodes.

How do you throw a fit because you couldn't get your girlfriend invited to your squadmate's cousin's wedding? A wedding you were only invited to because her mother wants her to look good for the family name. I was happy to see Abigail not back down in order to get Raelle to come along. Raelle was a brat this whole episode. I need Tally to start calling her out as well. She keeps trying to fuck up things for the whole squad. I did love how expertly Abigail's mother shut her down when she barged into that group and started reaming her out about her own mother.

More little world building tidbits. The marriages only last 5 years.

I loved the mother-daughter fight scene at the end. The woman who used to produce and direct a lot of Strike Back directed this episode and you could tell by all the awesome hand to hand combat.

It also showed that Abigail is good at things and is more than just a Bellweather and that her mother is a boss. Who's after Adler's job??

I think they did enough build up with what balloons mean that the shot of balloons descending on the wedding was threatening enough to their world to make me wonder how they were going to get out of this.

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For some reason, I thought Anacostia saw one of the balloons when they were inspecting rooms after Scylla's ex died so when Tally went running to her to tell her about Scylla and the balloon, I thought Anacostia was going to try to kill her.

I think that was Abigail's mother and the balloon appeared a second after she turned away.

I also think Raelle's mother is alive and with the Spree. Head of the Spree?

[UNOSEZ]

33 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

also think Raelle's mother is alive and with the Spree. Head of the Spree?

I surmised something similar tho its said the spree doesnt have a centralized power structure.. Even so I don't want her mom.. If she is with them to be high up.. It'll feel way to mirror image for me.. Cuz then the way this show feels they may make the spree mom somewhat sympathetic and Abigail's mom shady and what not.. Setting both daughters up in a showdown and what not... 

[Chick2Chic]

19 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Im sorry.. But Raelle is a real shitbird... Way to be supremely whipped to the point of madness... The utter lack of respect she's had for Abigail is beyond flagrant... And I feel like the show is trying to push me to believe "there's good ppl on both sides"...  But bump that she invites you to a huge thing that has real ramifications for your future.. Extremely beneficial and you throw a fit cuz you can't invite the girlfriend... Then said girlfriend shows up anyway and you don't have the decency to apologize or even check your girl..

Raelle is so aggravating in her myopic self-centered behavior. 

Poor Tally and Abigail. 

[Cranberry]

I'm still not convinced that Scylla was the blonde/redhead from the beginning of the pilot, in which case she hasn't committed any terrorist acts. She did kill her ex-boyfriend, which is very bad (and she didn't seem at all broken up over it, which is concerning!), but if they later tell us that she's just a poor kid whose draft-dodging parents got murdered by the military and who got swept up in a terrorist organization she didn't understand before realizing she was in over her head and wanted out, I'll go with it.

In any case, Amalia Holm is doing a great job. There's something unsettling about Scylla. I think it's that she rarely blinks. Also, in that scene where Scylla and Raelle were walking side-by-side and talking, she stared straight ahead most of the time instead of looking over like Raelle was doing. In interviews, Amalia looks at her fellow interviewee(s) and blinks all the time, so Scylla's weird intensity is intentional. It works. 

Also, this is cute:

 

[UNOSEZ]

57 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

but if they later tell us that she's just a poor kid whose draft-dodging parents got murdered by the military and who got swept up in a terrorist organization she didn't understand before realizing she was in over her head and wanted out, I'll go with it

I dunno.. The way shes been so smug with Anacostia... She knows what she's doing and she knows what the spree are about.. She's only bucking a lil bit now cause she caught feelings for Raelle... But that's not enough for me... She knew something pretty major was gonna happen at the wedding maybe even the details of who was gonna get hit as the ones who killed Charvel came in as wait staff just like her... So nah.. She ain't caught up in a moment... She a stone cold killer

[tennisgurl]

If they want me to root for Scylla to be redeemed, they are really going to have to work for it, because as of now, I cant imagine ever rooting for that gas lighting murdering terrorist, even if she ends up catching some feelings for Raelle. While the whole witch military industrial complex is super fucked up and clearly needs to be dealt with, The Spree seem to be more interested in murdering random civilians and people just living their lives than doing anything to actually bring freedom to witches or whatever. I wonder if they really do have some other motivation, because I dont even know how this actually does anything to break down the system. If anything, this would probably make people want to cling to the security of the military even more. 

I really like the buzzing music that always accompanies the Spree. It works with their sort of angry swarm motif, and it just sounds so creepy and intense. 

The death balloons give me serious IT vibes. It was cool seeing the fully trained witches taking them out. Its certainly a different thing than seeing the trainees at practice. 

Raelle was being a real jerk all episode, especially ditching poor Tally, and acting all pissy because she cant bring her girlfriend to the wedding. She doesn't even know the bride or groom, why should she be able to bring a plus one when she is also a plus one herself? Then when she crashed the wedding, she should have known that that was super inappropriate, especially considering its a fancy catered wedding with food and stuff, but she didn't even apologize or anything. All that being said, I do at least feel bad for her when she finds out she fell in love with a terrorist who is trying to recruit her. She deserves better than that, which is another reason why I am not thrilled about a possible Scylla redemption, especially considering her people just murdered Abigail's cousin. 

It was cool seeing Abigail and her mom kick some ass together. Now we know what those whips are for! Abigail might be a hard ass, but I can respect how seriously she takes her work and how much she wants to succeed on her own merit and not just coast on her family name. A lot of people might just get by on her rich and powerful family, so I can appreciate that she wants to make a name for herself, and not just her family name. Her mom seems like an interesting character, its hard to get a beat on her. 

I continue to really like the world building, like the wedding ceremony and the five year marriages to keep the magic bloodlines going. I guess Abigail considers all of the men her mother has married every five years her fathers? Yeah, the whole witch system is super messed up, with all the arranged marriages and then having to move on and have more babies every five years, even if they might not want to be with the person, not be attracted to their gender, or would want to stay with them for more than five years, or at least thats how it is for the upper class, maybe its a bit more relaxed with the more lower level rank and file? Well, on the plus side, Tally just needs to wait five years, and maybe she can marry the boy she likes for the next five years! Yeah, still sucks. 

[ursula]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

maybe its a bit more relaxed with the more lower level rank and file?

I suspect this is what it is. Rey’s dad was a civilian and I’m pretty sure is her bio-dad,  not someone her mom married within <5 years. I think the 5 year thing is a magical “aristocracy” kind of thing since male witches are rare? It’s not confirmed but I’m just guessing that the whole reason why the Witch Army is not a Wizard Army is because of numbers. So since they want to keep the bloodlines as full of magic as possible, they need to share the men. And I’m guessing marrying a civilian is seen as a step down and highly frowned upon.

I wonder what Tally’s arrangement is since she grew up in a women’s only community. Did the women rent men to have babies with or was it artificial insemination? Is there even artificial insemination in this world? Because that would be the easiest way out of the “5 year lease” clause - if they just mandated every male witch to donate his swimmers, then there’ll be enough to go around. Usually, populations are limited by the number of fertile women, not men.

[viajero]

On 4/16/2020 at 3:49 PM, Chick2Chic said:

Raelle is so aggravating in her myopic self-centered behavior. 

Poor Tally and Abigail. 

I find Abigail to be almost equally self-centered, but in a different way.  She really doesn't seem to care about anybody but herself and her family.  The only reason she's come around to acting a little more supportive towards her squad mates is because her own performance depends on them.   They tried to redeem her a bit in this episode by showing that she does want to stand on her own two feet, but it was not enough to make me completely overlook her smug entitled attitude in previous episodes.

While its true that Raelle can be unlikable at times, I find her resentment and dislike for Abigail and her mother to be both believable and understandable.  Remember that unlike Tally, Raelle was basically drafted and has no real desire to be in the military.  Add in what (she thinks) happened to her mother and of course she's resentful of the entire military complex.  Abigail is exactly the kind of person who is going to rub her the wrong way.  Plus, Raelle is a teenager.  To put down her attitude in this episode entirely to her relationship with Scylla is missing the point.  Even if she didn't have a girlfriend, I could see her acting equally surly and uncooperative.

I find Scylla to be the most interesting character on this show.  While she's done some very nasty unforgivable things, she's not some caricature of an evil person.  There's clearly something more complex going on with her and I'm curious to find out what it is.  I really don't think they can completely redeem her at this point.  But they can give us a better understanding of where she's coming from.

One thing I like about this show is that none of the major characters are without their faults (to a greater or lesser extent).  If I wanted to watch a confrontation between pure good and pure evil, I'd go watch one of those super hero shows.

Edited April 18, 2020 by viajero

[Chick2Chic]

12 hours ago, viajero said:

To put down her attitude in this episode entirely to her relationship with Scylla is missing the point.

I think you meant to quote the person I originally quoted but I will.state that Raelle is obnoxious & self-centered, with or without a girlfriend. Her behavior at the wedding in how she handled Scylla crashing it was absolutely trash. Yes, Raelle is young but she isn't stupid and neither would give her a free pass. Abigail is driven but focused plus she is trying to get them to work as a team. Raelle is only about her own needs.

So, long story short, Raelle is incredibly self-centered in only caring about what she wants then throwing tantrums or acting rudely about it. I don't care for Raelle and likely won't until she learns that other people's feelings matter and not just her own (or Scylla's). Until she shows considerable emotional growth, she is going to stay on my shit list. I will however continue to enjoy Tally, Abigail, and Anacostia. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Chick2Chic
fixed something.

[Cranberry]

2 hours ago, viajero said:

Remember that unlike Tally, Raelle was basically drafted and has no real desire to be in the military.  Add in what (she thinks) happened to her mother and of course she's resentful of the entire military complex. 

Yeah, this exactly. Raelle doesn't care about getting into War College. She doesn't care about playing nice with the woman she thinks is responsible for her mom's death. She had no desire or reason to go to this wedding besides Abigail's insistence. Yeah, I do feel she was a little bratty about it, especially insisting that her girlfriend come too (as others have mentioned, plus ones do not get to bring plus ones!), but she did end up going, even though she thought Scylla wouldn't be there. She also left Scylla with Anacostia when Tally needed her help, even though Anacostia was on the warpath. Is Raelle perfect? Hell no, but every week we see her grow a little closer to the others.

[ursula]

4 hours ago, viajero said:

Plus, Raelle is a teenager. 

So is Abigail. Like it’s really weird to use that to defend Raelle’s actions and at the same time condemn Abigail wholesale.

Quote

She doesn't care about playing nice with the woman she thinks is responsible for her mom's death.

Tally lost her aunts. Abigail gave a litany of family members who’d died in service. Like a mom is definitely closer than all these but Raelle is acting like no one else has lost family in service or that the Bellweathers aren’t a famous war hero family for a reason.

 

4 hours ago, viajero said:

I find Abigail to be almost equally self-centered, but in a different way.  She really doesn't seem to care about anybody but herself and her family.

The only reason she's come around to acting a little more supportive towards her squad mates is because her own performance depends on them.

Abigail cares about duty. She’s the metaphorical straight A student that got the bad luck of being in a group project with the slacker. Why should her own hard work be brought down by Raelle’s childishness and truancy? Abigail is the poster kid who’s embraced the spirit of service and yes, she has a right to be outraged by Raelle’s behaviour. Why does it have to suddenly be her job to not just do her best but carry Raelle on her back?

Can you imagine how horrible it must have been for Abigail to show up with her family’s legacy, intent to doing honour to her ancestor’s name (“never forget that the first Bellweather to serve was a slave”) and then gets trapped by no fault of hers into a unit with someone who’s getting demerits on her first day? Raelle is bitter that her mom died in the Army which sucks. But she also seemed deaf and blind to Abigail listing family members from aunts, cousins and both grandmothers who all died in service. Like she said - it’s the job.

Raelle isn’t the only teenager. She isn’t even the only teenager with misgivings for being there - Glory was also scared about coming and wondered why Tally didn’t opt out. They’re all 18 and Raelle is the only one acting like a brat. If her self destructive behaviour was only taking her down that would be well and dandy but she knows she’s ruining Tally’s and Abigail’s careers and she doesn’t care.

 

Anyway I hope that generally all the three girls will become genuine friends. Raelle needs to grow up. Tally is wonderful but she’ll have to lose her rose tinted glasses and she’ll be better for it. Abigail needs to question her blind loyalty to the military complex.

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

3 hours ago, ursula said:

So is Abigail. Like it’s really weird to use that to defend Raelle’s actions and at the same time condemn Abigail wholesale.

Tally lost her aunts. Abigail gave a litany of family members who’d died in service. Like a mom is definitely closer than all these but Raelle is acting like no one else has lost family in service or that the Bellweathers aren’t a famous war hero family for a reason.

 

Abigail cares about duty. She’s the metaphorical straight A student that got the bad luck of being in a group project with the slacker. Why should her own hard work be brought down by Raelle’s childishness and truancy? Abigail is the poster kid who’s embraced the spirit of service and yes, she has a right to be outraged by Raelle’s behaviour. Why does it have to suddenly be her job to not just do her best but carry Raelle on her back?

Can you imagine how horrible it must have been for Abigail to show up with her family’s legacy, intent to doing honour to her ancestor’s name (“never forget that the first Bellweather to serve was a slave”) and then gets trapped by no fault of hers into a unit with someone who’s getting demerits on her first day? Raelle is bitter that her mom died in the Army which sucks. But she also seemed deaf and blind to Abigail listing family members from aunts, cousins and both grandmothers who all died in service. Like she said - it’s the job.

Raelle isn’t the only teenager. She isn’t even the only teenager with misgivings for being there - Glory was also scared about coming and wondered why Tally didn’t opt out. They’re all 18 and Raelle is the only one acting like a brat. If her self destructive behaviour was only taking her down that would be well and dandy but she knows she’s ruining Tally’s and Abigail’s careers and she doesn’t care.

 

Anyway I hope that generally all the three girls will become genuine friends. Raelle needs to grow up. Tally is wonderful but she’ll have to lose her rose tinted glasses and she’ll be better for it. Abigail needs to question her blind loyalty to the military complex.

 

 

 

In the Immortal words of One Pusha T... My God.... 

Agreement all around the hypocrisy and double standards are both mind-boggling and 155% expected... 

Raelle doesn't even act like  she wants to burn it all down, thenbmaybe her behavior while still shitty would be more understandable.. No she's just been selfish and from jump and even if she wanted to screw things up for Abigail based solely on the fact that she thinks Mama Bellweather is responsible for her moms death... She still has Tally there too... Every time she screws up it affects Tally as well... But still she screws up... And I don't actually see where Abigail deserved any of this.. As snobby rich kids go in teen shows go Abigail is mild... Most of all of her vitriol has been aimed at that other high society girl... The one time she really stepped outta line was when she asked to be in another Unit.. And Alder came down on her ass... Since then she's been trying... and for her troubles in mending fences she ain't tear down ( something black women in particular seem constantly asked to do) shes still stuck with an ungrateful girl who throws tantrums... I really hope next week somebody... Tally( who ima need to come off down that fence)  or Anacostia to really lay into Raelle about how shitty she's been

[Featherhat]

37 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Raelle doesn't even act like  she wants to burn it all down, thenbmaybe her behavior while still shitty would be more understandable..

Yeah, she's been very....bratty for lack of a better word from the beginning. Even though she had a million reasons to be angry and not want to have anything to do with the Army or Bellweathers. She's not enthusiastic like Tally and in for a big shock eventually, not having the Bellweather legacy stamped on her like Abigail and having to work through that and find her own path, not working with the Spree like Scylla. She just does a lot of stuff that seems petty and obnoxiously self centred but is supposed to be rebellious, cool and righteous because she has quite a bit of maincharacter-itis. And she's my least favourite and least interesting of the three because of that. TH isn't without charm but the character is hard going. 

From the beginning of the ep she was all about her own issues in a snit disregarding everyone else, including Tally who also wasn't allowed to bring Gerit and wanted to bail on her to go to the beach. Yeah Abigail was being "High Atlantic" about it but she wasn't wrong and asked for her unit's support. It also doesn't help because we're seeing the Scylla is gaslighting her for a terrorist organisation and plotting to recruit Raelle. Obviously that's not her fault but it's not making me root for Scylla to go anywhere with her or for Raelle to be grabbing her to introduce her as a girlfriend to the snooty Bellweathers etc. 

I swear balloons on this show are creeping me out more than IT. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Featherhat

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

She just does a lot of stuff that seems petty and obnoxiously self centred but is supposed to be rebellious, cool and righteous because she has quite a bit of maincharacter-itis

Exactly.. Its the MCI... I feel like the show expects the majority of viewers to see her and Abigail as like equal sides of the same coin but they haven't shown us that... Abigail coulda been the " blonde kid with the rich dad"/from every 80s movie.. But she's stood up for Raelle even praised her... Mainly she's called her on her shit and I guess that's supposed to be how she's in the wrong.. I dunno and maybe to some that's how its playing.. I seen the posts upthread that seemed to fall on that side.. But for me I see a hard working legacy kid ( and I can relate because that's what I am)  and a spoiled bratty who constantly puts her wants above others.. Whos actions actually caused Abigail pain ( when Anacostia did whatever that drill was that messed up her throat)  still be shown in a positive light... Don't think I can stand for that much longer until she gets chewed out... Because shows are gonna go where they gonna go... But at least acknowledge when someone is outta pocket... You wanna make Raelle  equal in standing... You wanna redeem scylla... Fine.. But before you do.. Let somebody lay into them all the nonsense they got away with before we wipe the slate clean... 

[Cranberry]

What I want from this show is for Abigail and Raelle (along with Tally) to grow professionally as a unit and personally as friends, because I like both of them. I don't have an either/or attitude where I think one of them is always right and the other is always wrong. I understand Abigail's drive to succeed, the immense pressure she feels from her mother, and her frustration with Raelle bringing the whole unit down just as much as I understand Raelle feeling like she's a slave doomed to die like her mother and rebelling against that in any small way she can. Neither's actions are always justified, but they are understandable. 

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

What I want from this show is for Abigail and Raelle (along with Tally) to grow professionally as a unit and personally as friends, because I like both of them. I don't have an either/or attitude where I think one of them is always right and the other is always wrong. I understand Abigail's drive to succeed, the immense pressure she feels from her mother, and her frustration with Raelle bringing the whole unit down just as much as I understand Raelle feeling like she's a slave doomed to die like her mother and rebelling against that in any small way she can. Neither's actions are always justified, but they are understandable. 

Except everything Raelle has done has negative effects on her squad, her conscious decisions.. Its not like she doesnt know her slacking off to see Scylla. Or her just running up to fight with Abigail don't hurt the entire squad.. She just doesn't seem to care... Compare that to Abigail.. What has her drive.. Her desire to not just coast by on all her privileges cost the Unit?...  These two aren't on the same level at the moment.. Its not even close.. So for right now.. At least as a viewer it is an either or... And I'm over here with Abigail.. 

Raelle has been the source of the conflict ( regardless of her reasons)  she's been the instigator... And more times than not Abigail has had to shoulder the consequences either as part of the unit... Or all on her own.. And y'all wanna say its on everybody... Not to be incendiary but that's some all lives matter,  wash my hands of the whole situation type mess right there 

[ursula]

3 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Neither's actions are always justified, but they are understandable. 

There are good people on both sides? No, just no. When Raelle’s nonsense behaviour is causing Abigail physical injury (I had totally forgotten about that @Featherhat), humiliating her and risking the entire squad (including Tally) to get sent early into war as cannon fodder, while Abigail’s actions are... what? Advancing the unit? Making them better soldiers? Giving them a free pass to War College on her family name? Then no, it’s not “equal conflict”.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

It also doesn't help because we're seeing the Scylla is gaslighting her for a terrorist organisation and plotting to recruit Raelle. Obviously that's not her fault but it's not making me root for Scylla to go anywhere with her or for Raelle to be grabbing her to introduce her as a girlfriend to the snooty Bellweathers etc. 

This. It’s really hard to care for Raelle missing a day out with her girlfriend when we know said girlfriend is a gaslighting terrorist. Frankly, the only reason why I feel we’re supposed to root for this relationship is because it’s f/f. The writers haven’t bothered to make Scylla sympathetic or conflicted. And her feelings for Raelle don’t always come across as genuine. 

 

 

Quote

The one time she really stepped outta line was when she asked to be in another Unit..

I don’t even see that as out of line. If my entire military career hinged on the performance of the suicidal slacker that I was forced into a unit, I’d want out as well. It might be bad “sisters in arms” form but I 100% sympathize with Abigail not wanting to be brought down by Raelle’s performance. 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

37 minutes ago, ursula said:

don’t even see that as out of line. If my entire military career hinged on the performance of the suicidal slacker that I was forced into a unit, I’d want out as well. It might be bad “sisters in arms” form but I 100% sympathize with Abigail not wanting to be brought down by Raelle’s performance. 

Oh... I think all my previous posts show where I come down on this matter.. But what I was saying was... That really was the only thing I could point to that"someone " might say is Abigail doing wrong... Personally I'm with you.. I'd wanna dump Raelle from day one.. 

[Featherhat]

Abigail going to Alder is part of a long running trope of the rich legacy assuming they can go to (mostly Daddy's powerful friends) to get special treatment and being knocked down or indulged depending on the story. 

I can certainly see why she did it and I can see why it was refused, even if Alder hadn't taken pleasure in knocking down a rival's daughter. Working with what you've got and learning to cope with each other's strengths and weaknesses is a big part of Abigail's journey. And in the episodes before this one Raelle was actually coming around on this as well, albeit still holding the "main character exceptionalism" and angst stuff. This was a step backwards for her character - if they wanted to show her anger and insecurities over her mother and upbringing there were much better ways to do it more sympathetically than whining about not bringing a plus one and abandoning her also non High Atlantic friend. That's pretty self absorbed.

This was actually a big step forward for Abigail in terms of exploring what makes her tick and how she'll grow from here. Given her trying to use her privilege it shouldn't have come as such a shock that she's an almost 100% shoo in for War College but she is also very driven to succeed and not let herself, her mother or the family down in basic. I am really enjoying what ANW is bringing to her. 

I am really not looking forward to anything related to Scylla/Raelle and simultaneously setting up both the Spree climax with possible Raelle being actually recruited and Redeem Scylla stuff. They went in hard and fast showing some really creepy, nasty stuff with the Spree and revealed in the pilot that Scylla was either the girl in the opening scene or connected to her some how. I know she's a teenager who's had a horrible life but "because I really fell for her!" isn't going to cut it for me. 

I do actually hope the three become a solid team against everything Spree, military and witch society they do have a lot of promise together it's just a bit frustrating right now.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Featherhat

[Cranberry]

Quote

Not to be incendiary but that's some all lives matter,  wash my hands of the whole situation type mess right there 

What does all lives matter nonsense have to do with any of this? If you're suggesting that people aren't 100% on Abigail's side because she's black, I don't think that's true, just as I don't think it's true that people can't put themselves in Raelle's shoes because she's a lesbian. The debate has so far been (and should continue to be) about personality and actions.

Raelle did get Abigail injured, but she tried to heal her afterward, which meant taking the injury for herself. She started the process, but Abigail wouldn't let her finish (Raelle had a quick line about how now both of their throats were sore). Raelle is definitely a brat sometimes and like I said, I can't justify her actions -- she's one of those act first, feel bad about it later kind of people, which isn't an excuse for hurting people. But I understand why she is that way.

In any case, I'm not going to be baited into attacking Abigail to defend Raelle. As an overachieving, somewhat emotionally-closed-off leader type and a lesbian who hates being ordered around, I like and identify with both of them. The only unit member I can't actually identify with is Tally -- I don't have her passion, selflessness, or optimism -- but I like her. This is a cast of entirely strong female leads, and I'm disappointed that fans are pitting them against each other when the writers clearly intend for us to root for them growing together as a unit.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

This is a cast of entirely strong female leads, and I'm disappointed that fans are pitting them against each other when the writers clearly intend for us to root for them growing together as a unit.

Pointing out that Raelle’s actions have been immature and harmful to the other girls in her unit isn’t “putting female leads” against each other. Cloaking a female character’s flaws under the guise of “female solidarity” isn’t forward thinking. Characters should be criticized or lauded based on their actions, not based on their gender, race or sexual orientation. So far, Raelle’s actions are deplorable. She doesn’t get a pass for being a girl and/or being into girls. Hopefully, she gets better and the whole unit grows both individually and as a team. 
 

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Abigail going to Alder is part of a long running trope of the rich legacy assuming they can go to (mostly Daddy's powerful friends) to get special treatment and being knocked down or indulged depending on the story. 

The funny thing is that Abigail is acting the opposite of the legacy kid expecting special treatment. She isn’t slacking off or calling favours or expecting to ride on her family name. If anything, she’s putting immense pressure on herself because of said family name. She’s doing the work, showing up for training, pushing herself.

Raelle is the one who’s acting entitled to a free ride. Yes, we the audience know there’s a darker reason for her actions (she’s literally on a suicide mission to fail and be killed on the front lines) but appearances wise, she’s the slacker who isn’t putting in the work.

I definitely agree that Abigail asking to switch units in the context of military training where being sisters-in-arms, leave no woman behind has to be drilled early and hard into fresh recruits. But it’s so much more than  a legacy kid wanting an easy ride. Being a legacy definitely gave her the (backfiring) boldness to approach Alder herself, not Quartermaine or someone lower in authority ... but her feelings of frustration with Raelle aren’t based on her being a legacy, they’re typical of any kid who ends up stuck in a group project with someone who doesn’t want to do the work.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by ursula

[UNOSEZ]

I don't want or mean to try and put the two of these ladies against each other... My whole point is.. They aren't on equal footing... Their offenses are not equal.. One party has done more harm.. One party has been more selfish.. One party has been the aggressor.. That's what's been on the screen.. But I walked away from this episode and in totality I feel the showrunners want me to " see both sides"  and that's a problem.. Both in universe.. Because again Raelle has been much worse and has yet to be really called on it... And IRL... because we have an aggrieved blk character expected to put up with the shenanigans of a white one... 

I'm cautiously pessimistic that the show will address this imbalance... By having Abigail act out after the death of her cousin and it be Raelle who gets to save her... 

But well see and as @ursula upthread said... Can't  let the fact that Raelle is in a F/F relationship plaster over her flaws so far... 

I'm an easy tv watcher as long as ppl get called out for their nonsense I'm willing to let it go and continue the story... 

[Cranberry]

My argument has never been that Raelle should get a free pass because she's a lesbian -- that's actually the opposite of the point I was making. Race and sexuality don't enter into the conflict on the show and shouldn't enter into the debate about the characters' personalities and actions here. Or:

Quote

Characters should be criticized or lauded based on their actions, not based on their gender, race or sexual orientation.

Yes, exactly. I don't want to be accused of racism when I criticize Abigail any more than someone wants to be accused of homophobia when they criticize Raelle. Both are strawmen, and we're all better than that.

Also, to be clear, I have no issue with people criticizing or even hating any character. I'm disappointed that people are cherry-picking bad things Raelle has done (getting Abigail injured in training, abandoning Tally at the wedding) and ignoring what she's done to make up for them (attempting to take Abigail's injury upon herself, leaving Scylla with Anacostia when Tally interrupted them needing support) in an attempt to paint this as a black and white situation where Raelle is an awful person who doesn't care one bit about her unit mates. That's not what we're being shown.

I actually agree that Raelle's behavior has been worse than Abigail's (in general, and especially in this episode), but she is clearly slowly starting to care about the other girls. When I say I'm disappointed to see people pitting them against each other, it's because I think we've been shown character development on all sides and I'd like to see that acknowledged and have people root for the developing friendship and team unity instead of writing any one character off. But please don't take that as me telling anyone how to post; that's my own personal disappointment and is probably at least partly down to the writers softening and developing Abigail's character faster than they've been softening and developing Raelle's, forcing the viewer to do more work to understand and empathize with the latter.

[UNOSEZ]

36 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

My argument has never been that Raelle should get a free pass because she's a lesbian -- that's actually the opposite of the point I was making. Race and sexuality don't enter into the conflict on the show and shouldn't enter into the debate about the characters' personalities and actions here. Or:

Yes, exactly. I don't want to be accused of racism when I criticize Abigail any more than someone wants to be accused of homophobia when they criticize Raelle. Both are strawmen, and we're all better than that.

Also, to be clear, I have no issue with people criticizing or even hating any character. I'm disappointed that people are cherry-picking bad things Raelle has done (getting Abigail injured in training, abandoning Tally at the wedding) and ignoring what she's done to make up for them (attempting to take Abigail's injury upon herself, leaving Scylla with Anacostia when Tally interrupted them needing support) in an attempt to paint this as a black and white situation where Raelle is an awful person who doesn't care one bit about her unit mates. That's not what we're being shown.

I actually agree that Raelle's behavior has been worse than Abigail's (in general, and especially in this episode), but she is clearly slowly starting to care about the other girls. When I say I'm disappointed to see people pitting them against each other, it's because I think we've been shown character development on all sides and I'd like to see that acknowledged and have people root for the developing friendship and team unity instead of writing any one character off. But please don't take that as me telling anyone how to post; that's my own personal disappointment and is probably at least partly down to the writers softening and developing Abigail's character faster than they've been softening and developing Raelle's, forcing the viewer to do more work to understand and empathize with the latter.

I get it... Most of my dissapointment is with the showrunners and writers for not knowing how this might land... Or even worse knowing it may land.. ( with folks like me)  as another case of the blk character having to shoulder more and deal with more without it being addressed... One of the many problems that tv has saddled us watchers with for years and expected us to just deal because at least we were being represented 

[ursula]

Considering how rare male witches seem to be, I have questions...

Firstly, why are they rare? Is it because witches are more likely to birth girls than boys? Or that both are likely, but only a few of those boys end up magical?

Secondly, does this mean that the chances of a witch to have a non-magical daughter (or child in general) decreases with a non-magical man? (I think this is all but confirmed because why else would male witches be prized if not for bloodlines? If a witch is guaranteed to have a witchling regardless of birth father, then who cares who she marries?)

Thirdly, as the above is looked down upon (witches marrying civilians), could this mean that it’s outright illegal and not just highly frowned upon, for a male witch to marry a civilian woman? 

Edited April 19, 2020 by ursula

[Featherhat]

13 hours ago, ursula said:

The funny thing is that Abigail is acting the opposite of the legacy kid expecting special treatment. She isn’t slacking off or calling favours or expecting to ride on her family name. If anything, she’s putting immense pressure on herself because of said family name. She’s doing the work, showing up for training, pushing herself.

I did say that further down, that she is driven, intense and ambitious and was shocked that she's automatically going to get into war college based on her name. Which is an interesting contrast because she *did* try and use privilege to get special treatment and I can see why she did. And I can see why it's a good thing Alder slapped her down and she learns to find herself by working with the unit she has rather than getting a different one. Wanting to coast on her name isn't one of her issues. 

For me this isn't about race or sexuality or how the show is handling both, which is another issue, but yeah it's about personalities. Raelle is suffering from rebellious, obnoxious main character issues but that's also affecting Tally and whilst it was on full display this episode it wasn't too prominent in the Beltane episodes. It's also worth noting that within the context of the episode Raelle was being doubly obnoxious because she was reacting to the privilege and power of the High Atlantic aristocratic Bellweathers. 

I do want them to work through their problems with each other and become a strong personal and professional unit. It's especially interesting in a show where men are almost non existent to see different women and their struggles with the system and each other. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Featherhat

[AnimeMania]

11 hours ago, ursula said:

Firstly, why are they rare? Is it because witches are more likely to birth girls than boys? Or that both are likely, but only a few of those boys end up magical?

There is a way they could base it on science, if being a Witch is on the X chromosome, then men would have one and women would have two. Women who have two Witch X chromosomes would make all Witch babies as long as they bred with a male that had a Witch X chromosome. This example works when being a witch is a dominant trait. 

 

[ursula]

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

There is a way they could base it on science, if being a Witch is on the X chromosome, then men would have one and women would have two. Women who have two Witch X chromosomes would make all Witch babies as long as they bred with a male that had a Witch X chromosome. This example works when being a witch is a dominant trait. 

 

Oh this really, really makes sense...

So I have some time to kill and a little maths and high school gene theory to play with so here goes:

 

If the witch dominant gene is X, then all combinations for magical people are either XX, Xx (witches) or Xy (wizard).

A XX witch and a wizard (all wizards have to be Xy) will always have witch children (XX or Xy).

A XX witch and a civilian man (xy) will have all witch children. (Xx, Xx, Xy, Xy).

A Xx witch and a wizard (Xy) can have: XX, Xx, Xy or xy. So while all their daughters are witches, there's a 50% chance that this type of couple will have civilian sons. 

A Xx witch and a civilian man (xy) can have: Xx, xx, Xy, xy. So there's a 50% chance that all their children, male or female, will be civilians. 

A xx (normal woman) and a wizard (XY) can have: Xx, Xx, xy, xy. So all the daughters will be witches, but none of the sons will be wizards.

A xx (normal woman) and a normal man (xy) will have: xx, xy. All children are non-magical. 

 

So oddly enough, if this holds, there are some interesting observations:

1. A wizard will always have a witch daughter, regardless of who her mother is. 

2. A wizard will never be able to have a wizard son with a civilian baby-mother.

3. A witch with Xx may not have all magical children. If the baby-daddy is a wizard, she will definitely have all magical girls but no matter who she marries, there's always a 50% chance that her son will not be a wizard.

4. A witch with a "full-blooded" XX lineage will always have magical children. However again, if the baby-daddy is a civilian, she could have a daughter like (3) who has civilian children. 

 

So in summary: a magical parent is very likely to have a witch daughter. If her magical parent is the father, she is guaranteed to be a witch even if her mother is a civilian. However, the occurrences of a wizard being born are slimmer and depend on how "full-blooded" the mother is. Witchcraft can also be bred out of a lineage, if enough "inefficient" pairings are made. 

So just based on statistics and very, very elementary gene theory, wizards are rarer and genetically more vital than witches because the only way to guarantee that magic is passed on to descendants (grand-children and onwards), is by having babies with wizards exclusively.

So...

the real question is... how do they avoid incest?

Edited April 20, 2020 by ursula

[AnimeMania]

I didn't want to get into to much because there are so many possibilities like maybe you need XX to be a witch and the men might only be useful as XY breeding stock. The show hasn't told us yet.

Edited April 20, 2020 by AnimeMania

[ursula]

Yeah I’m just playing around with the figures here, but it’s interesting. I hope the series lasts long enough to go into the “science” of things. (And I hope they think it through too).

[Cranberry]

I hope they answer some of these questions, too. I like that we're not being overloaded with mythology and instead having it doled out little by little, but some things are almost too subtle and I find myself wishing for more exposition!

I'm sure Eliot Laurence knows the answer to most questions we could have. According to this interview:

Quote

Laurence originally thought his idea about a witch army might be fodder for a book. He wrote it in a diary form, with each young woman writing her story in alternate chapters. But he couldn't sell it.

A few years ago, executive producer Kevin J. Messick realized the TV landscape had changed and Laurence's concept would make a provocative series. The original book became the source material.

"He had five books in his head all mapped out so if this thing works, he's loaded with great ideas for a while," said Messick, calling Laurence a "genius." "The idea of strong young women fighting for America who have magical powers and it's dramatic — it feels weighty." 

 

[Featherhat]

Whenever I watch or read interviews with Eliot Lawrence especially After The Storm it definitely comes across that he has put a lot of thought into world building and enjoys that aspect of it, which makes me really happy as it's not the case with more than a few showrunners who really should have done. I don't always agree with what he says but he seems to have at least thought about them like LGBT relationships in a society that really only cares about your "working parts". Even though that means plenty of opportunities for heterosexual sex between one or more gay or lesbian characters who aren't interested. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tally Discovers Scylla's Secret

Scylla Tells Raelle She Loves Her