Lt. Abbie Mills: Lef-tenant Fist-bump

[Yolapukka]

After this disappointing episode and the way both leads, most especially Abbie have been overtaken in importance by  Wig-stand Crane , I'm legitimately worried that the episodes devoted to Abbie at season's end will be an exit story, either in effect or with complete finality. I would have smirked at the paranoia of anyone who said that before now but it's become absolutely undeniable that a once peripheral character is now the focus and all others are sidekicks or antagonists of varying degrees of importance. I have no faith in Fox to fix this either . i've seen too many good shows on the network go to hell after initial success when the executives start second-guessing the creative team. I don't see why this would be any better just because the creative team is actually screwing up.

[Indi]

The only hope Abbie has to survive as a main character and most probably survive at all is if FOX puts its foot down and forces Goffman's hand. Otherwise she's doomed. As much as the producers are willing to ignore the criticism, the same can't be said for the network. I'm sure they want to keep the show for as long as possible. They need to kick Goffman out though. He's not subtle about his hatred for this character.

[Miss Dee]

I'm not nearly as invested as other people in the quality of this season - I learned my lesson about that with Smallville - but Abbie's my main reason for enjoying this. If she goes, I'm gone.

[kimberella]

The thing I need the most, next to more Mills sisters scenes, is for Abbie to break up her partnership with Crane, however briefly, and when they go back to work together, their alliance should be an uneasy one, until he proves he can be trusted. At this point, I'm feeling I'm being mocked by the writers instead of entertained. I don't know what they're trying to tell me about Abbie's character, because, as she has been written and depicted, I cannot believe for a second she's the kind of woman who would put up with a guy, who can't keep his word and who keeps betraying her again and again.

Am I supposed to think this capable woman, who has put Jenny, Hawley and Katrina in their place, doesn't have the self-conficence to tell this treacherous leech he and his family should not take precedence over the rest of Humanity? That a partnership should go both ways and that she and her family shouldn't make all the effort and take all the losses?

I guess I'll be waiting forever for this to happen, just like I've been waiting forever for her to address his betrayal from the S1 finale.

[Enero]

This episode was better than some of the last few we've had, but not great.

That said, we got to see another one of Abbie's Achilles heels. She doesn't appear to be a deeply religious person, but she obviously believes in God and his angels. Hence her blind faith in Orion tonight. I do wonder though why she hasn't openly questioned that if she and Crane destined to fight the good fight, why no higher powers have not come to help them? Based on her response to Orion she obviously has been wishing for some help of his kind (a higher power).

Also, it was obvious tonight that she is still very much reeling from Corbin's death and understandably resents the Horsemen for murdering him. I wonder if this will eventually lead her astray later in the season. Not astray into evil, but just a different path than Crane, perhaps even a path that is in opposition to his. She was still holding on to Orion's calling card at the end of tonight's episode and was eying it with a hint of interest yet uncertainty.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Enero

[phoenics]

This episode was better than some of the last few we've had, but not great.

That said, we got to see another one of Abbie's Achilles heels. She doesn't appear to be a deeply religious person, but she obviously believes in God and his angels. Hence her blind faith in Orion tonight. I do wonder though why she hasn't openly questioned that if she and Crane destined to fight the good fight, why no higher powers have not come to help them? Based on her response to Orion she obviously has been wishing for some help of his kind (a higher power).

So have I! I think that's why I was a bit disappointed that Orion seemed to exit so quickly... I am hoping for more of him.

I did like that they FINALLY talked (though vaguely) about God in this episode... Of course Orion's answers were cop-out vague though, but probably no way to do that really without some heavy Christian tones (even though I wouldn't mind it if they'd tried - they did lift the whole Witness thing from the Bible).

I found Abbie's questions realistic given that anyone else in her position would have done the same. I also thought Orion's little half smile at her was both "awww you cute little human" and "humph you still have faith in His plan that I don't have anymore"...

Also, it was obvious tonight that she is still very much reeling from Corbin's death and understandably resents the Horsemen for murdering him. I wonder if this will eventually lead her astray later in the season. Not astray into evil, but just a different path than Crane, perhaps even a path that is in opposition to his. She was still holding on to Orion's calling card at the end of tonight's episode and was eying it with a hint of interest yet uncertainty.

I have a feeling the Abraham conflict isn't over - which is kind of a bummer... and I'm also sad that we probably won't go back to the pure story from S1 - it feels muddled now...

But I do think Abbie will call on Orion again in the future - but isn't he mad at her now? I wonder if Crane sides with Katrina at some point and Abbie has enough and calls on Orion (but she gets him to promise not to go all Apocalyptic on her and SH)?

Maybe she calls him on Irving's behalf, given the whole soul thing?

[Amethyst]

Also, it was obvious tonight that she is still very much reeling from Corbin's death and understandably resents the Horsemen for murdering him. I wonder if this will eventually lead her astray later in the season. Not astray into evil, but just a different path than Crane, perhaps even a path that is in opposition to his. She was still holding on to Orion's calling card at the end of tonight's episode and was eying it with a hint of interest yet uncertainty.

 

I think the problem is that Abbie (and this isn't a slight on her, but one of her strengths) is too level-headed and sensible to deal with the silliness of the CFD, which has gone way out of hand.  She's realizing that she can't confide in Ichabod the way she used to because of Katrina's constant meddling.  As a result, Abbie's becoming increasingly frustrated, wary, and isolated.  Last season, she wouldn't have hesitated to tell him about Orion's medallion and why she wants to hold onto it.  

 

Abbie isn't ignorant to what Katrina means to Ichabod, but she also knows that allowing the bad guys to get away time and time again has only cost more people's lives.  I think that in the eleventh hour, Abbie would sacrifice Jenny if it meant the world was hanging in the balance.  She would be devastated and never forgive herself, but she'd do it if there was no other way.  Could Ichabod say the same of Katrina?

 

Corbin remains such a sore spot for Abbie because Katrina's constant need to redeem people underlies the tragedy of Corbin's death.  She's the only one whose lost someone close to them because of this war.  Henry and Abraham are still alive.

[kimberella]

One of the things that gets me all riled up about Paradise Lost is the amount of time they spent with Crane's uncertainties about his role in the world after defeating Moloch and none on Abbie's point of view. She existed exclusively to prop him up and pat him on the back, as this show has the ugly habit to do.

What about her? Why didn't she get a line about her own ambitions? We're talking about the woman, who was about to follow her dreams and go to Quantico in the pilot, leaving her lover and her life in Sleepy Hollow behind. Where did that amazing woman go? She's following Crane around, supporting him and listening to his endless whining, instead of going forward with her life. These hack writers have turned her into a woman, who just exists as long as she's in Crane's sphere and only as a foil to him.

[DeLurker]

True, but I feel as if this is mostly the fault of Goffman pushing his Katrina! Agenda.  Crane has turned into an accessory for the many Tales of Katrina! and he only gets a more significant role because his undying love for Katrina! is moving that Agenda forward.  Abbie, like everyone else, gets pushed farther and farther back. 

 

And if this had been the focus of the story from the beginning, I would have watched the pilot for shits and giggles because it was a ridiculous premise and my very low expectations for Bad! Acting! would have been filled by Katrina!.  But I wouldn't have bothered to watch a second ep.

 

I'm compelled to follow Katrina's name with an ! because I am so so fed up with how everyone is used to prop her up as the most powerful and wunnerful witch ever, except, you know, Katrina.

 

But I miss S1 Abbie and this has not been a natural evolution of the character.

[fantique]

Another unpopular opinion...I think pretty much all the actors, with the exception of Tom Mison, can't act their way out of a paper bag. And, this season, I think the writing and directing are dragging Mison down to everyone else's level...I think I have to move over to the "What's Wrong" thread to explain myself, because, although I think Nicole Beharie mugs and rolls her eyes instead of acting, I used to looove the scenes with her and Mison (and some Jones thrown in, sometimes). As others have said, the magic is gone and the comedy is forced.

I am answering this here because my main point is about NB.

Firstly, I guess that to get my point across, I need to explain how I think about acting. I don't think about acting in terms of range or whatever, acting is a lot more subtle and complex than a lot of people like to think and they love to say someone is a bad actor. To me, that is such a reductive term that doesn't even address the shortcomings of a performance. Are they saying that the actor doesn't look sad when they should? Are they saying the intended message is not being conveyed? That's why I just don't like to rate an acting performance using such arbitrarily polarising terms.

 

1) I understand the reticence about her portrayal in the first season. It took me a few minutes to get used to her facial expressions and stuff because I thought she was overacting. Then once she started to pile on the sarcasm, I was there. I like that she is the direct, completely readable face type of character and it helped that I then saw interviews with NB and she is soooooo different from Abbie that it made me appreciate what she's doing. I feel like the best way to describe her portrayal is raw; she doesn't try to look attractive to the camera and every thought and emotion can be read on her face. It feels like I can see Abbie think, not Nicole, Abbie. That is the ultimate goal of acting isn't it? Losing oneself and becoming a completely different person with different instincts and tendencies and triggers.

 

2) While I don't want to underrate TM's performance or his charisma, I don't think it's necessarily to compare his acting with the others' because he has such a different function. It's a lot easier to retain people's attention when you're loud, odd and charmingly quirky. Not saying that it's easier acting, but I am saying that the fruit of said labour are easier pickings because the viewer's attention is captivated more easily. The way I see it, I like to use the Cumberbatch-Freeman duo as reference. BC's Sherlock is only allowed to be as over the top as MF's John Watson is grounded. The more emotionally/morally reliable the viewer perceives John the more they can appreciate and revel in Sherlock utter lack of social graces and tact. When Sherlock does something borderline, for a micro second, I stop and wait for what John will do. If he laughs, then it's Sherlock being quirky, if he's angry then it's Sherlock crossing the line. He is my guideline of what I'm supposed think/feel. I feel the same way about Abbie, I get my cues from her to see if I am getting what I'm supposed to get out of a scene. If I'm feeling irritated and she is amused, i try to see what I missed, if she shows as much irritation then I know it's an intentional plot point as opposed to a miswrite of some sort. 

 

3) The second season was rough for both Abbie and Nicole. For Abbie, the character has had too little development to be given a chance to fail, learn and get back up. For Nicole: In the first half of 2A (except from Mama and that horrendous finale- I admit that the crying scene felt weird but I feel a certain, justifiable, wariness on her part), I just kept being blown away by how much she was giving into each second of her performance. After that, she basically was kind of only given the opportunity to do only reactionary acting. Reaction shots of dumb things the Cranes are doing/saying, trying to let down Hawley without addressing the giant rainbow elephant in the room. It felt very like "Oh right! Abbie is a real person with feelings and opinions other than supporting Crane, we should make sure to address that in non-verbal cues." Even with that crap though, the fact that you could tell what she was thinking at every single moment and that she didn't even need to say anything to get her stance across is the very example of an actor making lemonade out of very sour writing lemons. Both Ichabod and the viewer don't need to ask what she's thinking, and that would not be possible if she was even an "average" actress - I don't like to use this term but I feel like that's how most people look at it. What I mean by average is someone who hasn't learnt or doesn't understand the way humans non-verbally communicate, how to portray that and doesn't have a hold on their own character. Even if they are good at showing and evoking emotional responses, they would have been swallowed up by this meagre narrative and forgotten.

 

4) I don't have much of a strong opinion on the other actors except for John Noble. I do think they have a great handle on their characters and that helps with the performances. Orlando was so great last season and this season, I could just feel that he was starved for material and he was squeezing every second of screentime but that desperation kind of helped with the character anyway because Irving was in a desperate place. LG was a bit flat when she was first introduced but as soon as she let Jenny be charming and added more dimension (which I think was totally mandated by her and motivated the writers to add to her storyline), I was sold. I have already exposed my hang ups about KW's portrayal and this horse is dead.

 

Whew, that was longer than intended. Sorry if I got too artsy-fartsy about it. Also, disclaimer: I have yet to see the winter premiere, I can't bring myself to.

Edited January 17, 2015 by fantique

[savinggrace]

I'd have to disagree with any assertion that Nicole Beharie is a bad actress. All you have to do is compare her with Katia Winter to see the difference. Just in the last episode, Paradise Lost, I noticed a range of emotions passed over Abbie's face when she conversed with Orion and you could almost read each one. By contrast, Katia Winter has such limited range that I have no idea what she's supposed to be conveying half the time. Is Katrina being shady? Is she concerned? Is she jealous? Who knows?

 

If Nicole is perceived to be eye-rolling a lot, it's because -as fantique alluded-- she's been given such a reactionary role this season. I can say without doubt, that every eyeroll from Abbie was accompanied by one of my own from home because her exasperation and disgust mirrored what I was feeling watching her deal with all the CFD. In that sense her reactions were perfect.

Edited January 17, 2015 by savinggrace

[BrokenRemote]

One of the things that gets me all riled up about Paradise Lost is the amount of time they spent with Crane's uncertainties about his role in the world after defeating Moloch and none on Abbie's point of view. She existed exclusively to prop him up and pat him on the back, as this show has the ugly habit to do.

What about her? Why didn't she get a line about her own ambitions? We're talking about the woman, who was about to follow her dreams and go to Quantico in the pilot, leaving her lover and her life in Sleepy Hollow behind. Where did that amazing woman go? She's following Crane around, supporting him and listening to his endless whining, instead of going forward with her life. These hack writers have turned her into a woman, who just exists as long as she's in Crane's sphere and only as a foil to him.

I could have sworn they did discuss Quantico--I'll have to rewatch. But really, this wasn't a conversation about hopes and dreams. It was about practical things: a home, a job, a 401k. Abbie has those things already and Crane, being from another time does not. Now, if they have a conversation about their dreams and aspirations, and Abbie's are left out, I'll be as annoyed as the next person. I hate Katrina, and all that she being married to Crane brings to the show, don't get me wrong. It'll take more than the completely logical discussion over how hard it would be to have what Abbie, by virtue of her hard work and having grown up in our timeline, obviously already has for herself.

And as far as her doing nothing but following him around listening to his whining, didn't Abbie bring up about all the things Crane would need to do if the Apocolypse was over?

Edited January 17, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[fantique]

I understand subtleties. I've been a film editor (yeah, big Hollywood, small tv, docs for decades..some are Oscar/Emmy-winners). I couldn't even calculate how many hours/years of acting I've watched/scrutinized/"fixed"...sorry, but, I see bad writing AND acting.

Fair enough. I understand that people will have different sensibilities than others and I am sure your experience has honed your observation much more than mine. That's the beauty in entertainment isn't it? Everyone finds their niche and can enjoy different things.

 

In fact, I am a very recent TV watcher so I guess I definitely have different expectations for the acting than I would in a movie. On TV, I am a lot more concerned with feeling like I am seeing a real person that is making whatever story they are living relatable... I get super exasperated when I feel like an actor is just walking around with an empty head spewing out lines. I guess my issue is what I call stupid acting which is when you know the actor has no idea what's going on in the larger context of the show and doesn't make any effort to lock their character down. I also ranted a bit because I just hear the word "bad actor/actress" a lot and the same person telling me this will love someone whose performance always seems so disingenuous to me that I can't help but wonder what it is that they qualify a "good" or "bad" acting and is it a discrete measure or a continuous one? I would be interested to know what you don't like about the acting in general? Like do you feel they are not believable as their character? Or that they are not consistent? I would love for you to extend on it in the "What went wrong" thread.

[Indi]

I'd have to disagree with any assertion that Nicole Beharie is a bad actress. All you have to do is compare her with Katia Winter to see the difference. Just in the last episode, Paradise Lost, I noticed a range of emotions passed over Abbie's face when she conversed with Orion and you could almost read each one. By contrast, Katia Winter has such limited range that I have no idea what she's supposed to be conveying half the time. Is Katrina being shady? Is she concerned? Is she jealous? Who knows?

 

If Nicole is perceived to be eye-rolling a lot, it's because -as fantique alluded-- she's been given such a reactionary role this season. I can say without doubt, that every eyeroll from Abbie was accompanied by one of my own from home because her exasperation and disgust mirrored what I was feeling watching her deal with all the CFD. In that sense her reactions were perfect.

 

I don't have to compare her to Winter, to see how fantastic Nicole is, I'll compare her to her co-star, who I like in general, but who I think is overrated. Seeing Mison fold like a napkin, every time he has to act opposite Winter is a thing to behold. Nicole has never done such a thing and I just love her natural expressive acting. It's so much truer to real life and I never see the actress performing, I see the woman feeling. It's a wonderful contrast to the more stagey nature of Mison's or Noble's acting.

 

Speaking of the latter, I also feel John Noble is as overrated as Mison, to be honest. and don't get me wrong, I like John Noble too for the most part. I just disagree that casting him was a win and I don't think he fits in Sleepy Hollow. He needs a show like Fringe, where he can be a main character and be written to his dramatic heart's desire.

 

Anyway, other than Winter, they're all perfectly good at their craft and I think the writers are doing them a disservice with all the subpar writing.

[Actionmage]

I bet Abby was mentally cussing that lighter out for letting down Team Modern Convenience!

[DearEvette]

I have to give a shout out to Nicole Beharie for the last episode 'Awakening' especially in the end where she is in Sleepy Hollow circa 1780s.  Her body language was perfect.  It took her a moment to understand her dilemma and she seemed tentative and a little unsure.  But as she noticed the stares, her body went tense & wary.  She knew she couldn't make any sudden moves so as not to appear as if she were threatening.  She kept her head down a bit, appearing to be...but not really...subservient.  She conveyed a lot just from movement alone.

[phoenics]

I have to give a shout out to Nicole Beharie for the last episode 'Awakening' especially in the end where she is in Sleepy Hollow circa 1780s.  Her body language was perfect.  It took her a moment to understand her dilemma and she seemed tentative and a little unsure.  But as she noticed the stares, her body went tense & wary.  She knew she couldn't make any sudden moves so as not to appear as if she were threatening.  She kept her head down a bit, appearing to be...but not really...subservient.  She conveyed a lot just from movement alone.

The part where they took her in made me really uncomfortable... and I caught the subtle "hands up" thing she did too. Well done by the direction and Nicole.

[DeLurker]

Her efforts to just calmly keep walking didn't work.

[Actionmage]

Yeah, poor Abbie didn't have much of a chance to blend in at all. She was a) in pants, b) with her hair down and loose, while assumed to be c) unmarried, d) possibly armed and e) a woman of color f) "without" papers. 

[DearEvette]

The part where they took her in made me really uncomfortable... and I caught the subtle "hands up" thing she did too. Well done by the direction and Nicole.

 

Yeah, that was also very well telegraphed.  Not that I think the writers get this deep, but for all that people were very upset with the idea of Abbie being mistreated or considered a runaway slave, what actually happened to her on screen -- and her reaction -- is something that could (and does) easily still happen today.  Given how quickly she adopted the slow 'just minding my own business, nothing to see here' walk and then her 'hands up, don't shoot' posture  is silently indicative that issues of personal safety for POCs & women in certain spaces is some ways things really haven't changed.  And while Abbie is now a woman out of time, she has knowledge that will benefit her in ways a actual runaway would not have had.

Edited February 17, 2015 by DearEvette

[jhlipton]

Yeah, poor Abbie didn't have much of a chance to blend in at all. She was a) in pants, b) with her hair down and loose, while assumed to be c) unmarried, d) possibly armed and e) a woman of color f) "without" papers.

Not to mention that the fabric of her jacket is like WHAAAAAAAA???

[Yolapukka]

I understand the desire to ship Ichabbie, I consider myself an end-game shipper, not someone who needs to see much beyond subtext  and the wonderful little ways they show affection to each other. One thing though, most of the discussion, positive or negative seems to focus on how Ichabod is behaving towards Abbie. Am I the only one who thinks she's got him thoroughly friend-zoned?

[HalcyonDays]

Not to mention that the fabric of her jacket is like WHAAAAAAAA???

 

 Not to mention Zippers. Big huge Zippers. I also realized that her coat mirrors Crane's. It's that dark blue colour that matches his, and has large metal buttons on the collar area. The once again matched in what they were wearing. Cool.

 

I understand the desire to ship Ichabbie, I consider myself an end-game shipper, not someone who needs to see much beyond subtext  and the wonderful little ways they show affection to each other. One thing though, most of the discussion, positive or negative seems to focus on how Ichabod is behaving towards Abbie. Am I the only one who thinks she's got him thoroughly friend-zoned?

 

She chooses work over romance, it seems. When she went to Quantico, she broke up with Luke. She was all business (with a bit of flirt) with Hawley. She has told Ichabod countless time, our mission is more important than relationships. So yeah, I can see that - she's friend-zoned him. If they 'go there', then Crane's gonna have to be the one to 'make the move', so to speak. Because Abbie has always put work before pleasure. I agree.

 

17 Reasons to Love Abbie Mills.

[Indi]

She chooses work over romance, but I hope she opens up a little next season. I hope Calvin comes back as a love interest for her. I liked their chemistry and I think it would be wonderful if she had a little uncomplicated romance. If not him, some other new character, who opens up her world a little to a little fun. Her world is so small! Just Ichy, Jenny and Frank, while Ichabod managed to make friends and have a richer world. That doesn't make sense and it was part of her marginalization this season. Her choosing work over everything else is lazy writing and an easy way out for the writers to not make an effort. That needs to change.

[jhlipton]

I think there's a couple of things they need to make clear never happened, primarily that stupid map, and secondly, Hawley liking Abbie in any way.  Then, we can have paralleled dates: Jenny with Hawley and Abbie with Calvin.  (Frank is a better match for Jenny, but him reconnecting with his wife is part of the new reality.)  Both dates go horribly wrong (of course) in different but diverging ways.  

 

It will be fun to see Abbie full-out flirting.

[Watermelon]

Isn't Calvin dead?

Calvin is very much alive. We haven't seen him since he sent Abby a picture of herself he took while she was fighting demons. 

[DearEvette]

Not on the Calvin train.  Him sending her a text picture of herself was just a little stalkery-creepy.  And he annoyed me most of the episode.  But he was cute, i'll give him that.

 

I think Abbie consciously  friend-zones Ichabod but subconsciously she is in love with him and just hasn't admitted it to herself.  I don't (uppercase) SHIP  Ichabbie but I kinda do (lowercase) ship them, if that makes sense.

[savinggrace]

Lord please don't bring back Calvin. I found him so grating and entitled. I want them to just focus on the slow build of whatever relationship is the end game for Ichabbie without some third wheel there to create drama.

[BrokenRemote]

Lord please don't bring back Calvin. I found him so grating and entitled. I want them to just focus on the slow build of whatever relationship is the end game for Ichabbie without some third wheel there to create drama.

I thought Calvin was smug and grating, and really didn't like Abbie's "Oh, we can trust him on our super secret mission--I just feel it in my gut." That was not in keeping with Abbie's character; she's smarter than that. The show runners seem to think women go all stupid when they find a guy attractive (see: Jenny/Hawley) and Abbie is not stupid.

I also feel like, given the race issues we've seen, bringing on a black man just for her love interest is like when you'd see a single black woman board The Love Boat and know Isaac was gonna get a romance. It's not that I have a problem with him being black so much as it's like, ok, the only single black guy in town, so he must be a love interest for Abbie. It should be someone, of any race, that becomes part of the story and organically falls for Abbie, not someone brought on solely to be her love interest.

[DeLurker]

Just caught Nicole Beharie in a movie called My Last Day Without You.  She does a fair amount of singing in it and I think carries this rather llight weight movie on her charm.

[fantique]

I'm getting the feeling that her scheme is going to lead up to a betrayal of Crane and/or Jenny by Abbie. I don't get everyone saying Nicole seems tired of her role and wants out; I think we're just seeing a return to early season 1 Abbie Mills. She's tough, driven, career-focused, and again torn between her rise up the law-enforcement ladder and her duty as a witness.

Let's not forget that Abbie let her little sister rot in an institution for how many years because she protected herself; in the season premiere, I never got the impression that she was angry at Crane for staying away without any word - I think she was angry he was BACK.

I think Pandora will use this to make Abbie abandon Crane in a moment of danger, or maybe even Jenny. Crane had his crisis of duty last season with the Katrina-Henry debacle, I think it's Abbie's turn now.

I interpreted the same as you for the last two paragraphs. My issue is that I don't always feel connected to Abbie and her alone portions of the episodes. In the première, I had more fun watching her being in the FBI than the rest and was really sad for her when she had to be brought back into the mission. But since they are no longer showing her actually working on cases, instead she is creating "cases", I don't see her happy as an FBI agent as much except when she is having those weird scenes with Reynolds that are good on their own but feel weird in the narrative because we don't know where they're going with them. If the conflict is that she is giving up the life she wants as a FBI agent, then I have to see that that life is something she is happy in. As for Nicole, what I always liked is that whatever take, whatever angle, she popped and you could always see her being Abbie, and thinking about what's happening around her. 

 

This season, she just pops less and doesn't grab my eye as much when it's not "her shot". Since the scenes where the focus on her are still good and make me feel connected to her, I know that she hasn't magically lost her appeal to me so I can only believe it's because she is not 100% in. It might not have anything to do with the show,  but I am still feeling what I am feeling. The thing is, if the show had even an equal amount of scenes where she is the focus as when she is an accessory to the narrative, I would be ok. But, there are more moments that are either about the case or about Ichabod's emotional whatever of the week. And because I have loved those scenes where Pandora clearly targets Abbie and interacts with her, where I can feel her fear and her desperation and her wanting to be in denial, it makes it more obvious in scenes where she is more passive. The only plotline that is just about Abbie, is the FBI stuff...which we see 45 seconds of every episode. The way they made it, instead of her relationship with Reynolds being about her wanting that life, it seems that she is placating him so he will give her leeway to investigate the weird ones. They need to fix this shit. What could be a good way is that she tells him the truth and relies on him more and more which makes her rely less on the team. They can get closer, get back together and have him tempt her with the FBI,tell her that she shouldn't have this burden and that she is doing more good "in the real world", which would tie back to her saying that not all evil is supernatural like in the first episode. You know, the one that showed her so at ease as FBI that I wanted to just watch a show about Abbie, FBI agent. But that's unlikely at this point.

[netlyon2]

Interesting and thought-provoking look at Abbie:  http://blackgirlnerds.com/sleepy-hollow-concerning-abbies-validity/

 

 

I have so many thoughts, but no time to post them right now.  What do you all think?

Edited November 4, 2015 by netlyon2

[kimberella]

Nice article and all, but I find it too rosy colored, because it still fails to address, why her relationships never happen on screen, while Crane's do. That imbalance can't be erased. Even the author doesn't hide the fact, that Abbie is interested in romance (Luke, Daniel), even if those relationships don't last long. Why isn't this reluctance to be in a steady relationship explored on screen? Both relationships, her feelings and reasons for breaking up happened, when we weren't looking. That is a huge problem. The article is meant as a defense to Iscove's words, but, in the end, it's nothing more than a flowery "black woman that needs no man" defense, which is how Abbie has always been treated and described from the beginning by the producers and now the creator of the show.

 

The article mentions her family drama as primary example of Abbie's complexity, but fails to mention how little screentime it gets compared to anything Crane. I think it's superfluous to mention it as a beacon of light.

 

Even when it comes to Witnessing, Crane wins by a landslide. He holds the past mythology, the present one in the form of the tablet and even the writers have given him the only part that belonged to Abbie, Grace's journal, something Abbie seems to have lost all interest in for no good reason.

 

Abbie's validity has been undermined in virtually every aspect, except when it comes to be Crane's support system, not just when it comes to romance. However, even if the complaint was only about the lack of romantic development, one should always consider the source, who is in charge of the show and how they treat their white female protagonists versus Abbie (loveless/not desirable in comparison).

[fantique]

I would like to see it against the bigger picture.

 

1) How does she feel about that?

2) Does she feel hers and Jenny's dad leaving them was because she was not good enough?

3) Does she believe Danny chose his job over their relationship and then repeated it to her face over and over again. because she was not good enough?

4) I wonder if control freak Abbie now feels inadequate about both her career at FBI and her job as a Witness. Does she feel she's the only person in her entire group who is really underqualified? Ichabod was a soldier (in the Revolutionary War, no less!) and a spy. Jenny was a soldier of another, mystical, war or a very long time (and was closer to Corbin because of it). Joe was a soldier in a modern war.

5) And Abbie was the Sheriff's Deputy and then got FBI training and was sent to work in her small city yet again. Abbie always had ambitions, and she was a "big fish in a small pond". And now Danny screwed her over about the case and withheld a vital information from her, while insisting she's awesome and reliable.

I would like that too...

1) Panic? Desperate to fix everything? I just hope they have her express said emotions. I just don't understand why it's not been in scripts much this season.

2) I would say most certainly. Aside from Jenny, all her meaningful relationships on the show are with men and she seems to be at ease in mentor-mentee relationship. It was clearly affecting her last year to not be in with Reyes.

3) I understood it to be that he got more competitive and stuff after he realised she was more than happy to move on from their entanglement because of his little rambling in the cell last week.

4) I think she feels like she has failed at making it all work. While I don't think she's under-qualified in the slightest (she finishes off the monster with more frequency than anyone else), I think she realises just how not "made for it" she is. She is the only one stilll trying to keep the witness stuff out of her "normal" life, she is the only one still trying to even pretend to be normal. I wouldn't be surprised if she's thought that there is a mistake and she's not the second witness. I think I talked about it before the première, I definitely want them to explore that doubt and have her muddle through until she realises that she is the witness for a reason. It could also bring about answers as to why both witnesses were chosen.

5) This I think is the biggest blow at the moment. the FBI is supposed to be what she really wants out of her life and feeling duped and out of the loop is going to be super hard. I just hope she doesn't bottle it up. I want a full on argument. I want her to show how upset she is. I am so worried they are going to just have her passive-aggressively make upset faces at him while not broaching the subject. 

[Blackhoney]

I swear I love this woman. Nicole has it all and now more than ever I know she can do better than Sleepy Hollow.

Here she is in woods dancing and twerking to Missy Elliott's new single "WTF."

She's like a pint size Ciara.

http://brownsista.com/cutest-thing-ever-nicole-beharie-dancing/

[AllieHeart]

What was the point of 'killing' Abbie? Yes, there were reasons, but what happened to shows the worked around complication to give proper consideration of the show and it's content. I'm so disappointed Sleepy Hollow will be added to the long list of shows killing of the most interesting and inspiring heroes I've seen on televisions. THere are so few strong inspiring female leads in non-cliche roles that it make characters like Abbie Mills (and Lexa from the 100) Unicorns on television, which says a lot considering that they've been killed dishonorably. Especially considering both of them were strong protagonist meant to exemplify strength and valor. 

Circling back what do you think this means, where will we go from here, is Abble Mills death the final nail in the coffin of slowly declining show that's lost it's way. A way to it's characters, to it's message, to it's audience...

Thoughts? 

Edited May 1, 2016 by AllieHeart

[C76]

I don't have much time to talk about it now, but I think that killing Abbie was an incredibly uninspired, lazy, insulting choice for TPTB to make. And as I've shared in other threads, I'm not taking her "death" seriously. My main reason for this is the supernatural nature of the show. She doesn't necessarily have to remain dead. That's a choice that can be reversed. 

However, if it's left as such, I wouldn't be surprised if her demise marks the show's as well. Maybe I haven't been observant enough over the years, but I can't recall seeing a TV-based decision so universally panned--among fans and critics alike. 

[Enero]

The BTS shenanigans aside, I think if NB was out what other choice did they have but to kill Abbie? I guess they could've done a recast, but that would've gone over like a block of lead. It would not have made sense for her to run off into the sunset with Danny or take an FBI assignment in Quanico, leaving Crane and her sister behind. I guess if renewed they could've pretended she left for another job out of town once they neutralized Pandora and THO and all was right with the world. But again, once evil returned to SH it wouldn't have made sense for her not to return to help. Unfortunately, death was IMHO the only option for the character if NB was not remaining with the show. 

That said, I think what was most infuriating about her death was not necessarily that she died,  but how it was handled. Abbie has always been one to sacrifice herself for the greater good, which though noble,  is also disturbing since for the most part she was always sacrificing herself for her white counterparts which I won't get into with this post. But my point is her sacrificing herself was very much in character. However her coming to the realization that her only purpose was to help Crane reach his full potential was insulting to women and all POC IMHO. It really laid it out there loud and clear what the writers thought of Abigail Mills and what they've always thought of her, which was that she was nothing more than a magical negro. She had no journey because her purpose was to help Crane.  Which is ironic because I've always felt the roles were switched, that Crane had lived for 250 years in order to meet Abbie in her time, and help her reach a greater realization. That being as he'd lived way beyond his expiration date, he should've been the one to die, not Abbie.  But I digress. 

TPTB threw a bone to those still wearing rose colored glasses hoping that Abbie will return in some form or another next season by throwing out that line from Crane about how he'll have to find her spirit in the new body it's landed in. SMH. But really, if Abbie was a mere stepping stone for Crane on his journey to where ever, why is Abbie needed anymore at all? As stated in the finale, she's served her purpose, which I think was a clear message to fans from TPTB that Abbie/Crane are over. NB is gone. Abbie is gone. It's time to move on to bigger and better adventures with Crane. 

Will this move kill the show? Maybe. Maybe not.  From what I've seen over the last few weeks there is a dam good chance the show will get renewed. I believe FOX has a lot of a dead air next season and need something to fill it. SH may be needed to fill that dead air. If renewed I doubt they'll go a full 18 episodes though. I think they'll do what Grimm is doing and do 10-13 episodes and then be done. I can't imagine the show sustaining itself for a 5th season.

[bobbysgurl]

On May 1, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Enero said:

The BTS shenanigans aside, I think if NB was out what other choice did they have but to kill Abbie? I guess they could've done a recast, but that would've gone over like a block of lead. It would not have made sense for her to run off into the sunset with Danny or take an FBI assignment in Quanico, leaving Crane and her sister behind. I guess if renewed they could've pretended she left for another job out of town once they neutralized Pandora and THO and all was right with the world. But again, once evil returned to SH it wouldn't have made sense for her not to return to help. Unfortunately, death was IMHO the only option for the character if NB was not remaining with the show. 

That said, I think what was most infuriating about her death was not necessarily that she died,  but how it was handled. Abbie has always been one to sacrifice herself for the greater good, which though noble,  is also disturbing since for the most part she was always sacrificing herself for her white counterparts which I won't get into with this post. But my point is her sacrificing herself was very much in character. However her coming to the realization that her only purpose was to help Crane reach his full potential was insulting to women and all POC IMHO. It really laid it out there loud and clear what the writers thought of Abigail Mills and what they've always thought of her, which was that she was nothing more than a magical negro. She had no journey because her purpose was to help Crane.  Which is ironic because I've always felt the roles were switched, that Crane had lived for 250 years in order to meet Abbie in her time, and help her reach a greater realization. That being as he'd lived way beyond his expiration date, he should've been the one to die, not Abbie.  But I digress. 

TPTB threw a bone to those still wearing rose colored glasses hoping that Abbie will return in some form or another next season by throwing out that line from Crane about how he'll have to find her spirit in the new body it's landed in. SMH. But really, if Abbie was a mere stepping stone for Crane on his journey to where ever, why is Abbie needed anymore at all? As stated in the finale, she's served her purpose, which I think was a clear message to fans from TPTB that Abbie/Crane are over. NB is gone. Abbie is gone. It's time to move on to bigger and better adventures with Crane. 

Will this move kill the show? Maybe. Maybe not.  From what I've seen over the last few weeks there is a dam good chance the show will get renewed. I believe FOX has a lot of a dead air next season and need something to fill it. SH may be needed to fill that dead air. If renewed I doubt they'll go a full 18 episodes though. I think they'll do what Grimm is doing and do 10-13 episodes and then be done. I can't imagine the show sustaining itself for a 5th season.

I agree.  The simple fact that TPTB made it clear that Abbie had served her purpose in bringing Crane this far should have been the impetus to let her ride off into the sunset.  If she wasn't important enough to go to the next level with Crane, then she should not have been important enough to kill off even if NB left the show.

It was their way of telling us that NB would never be welcomed back to SH.

[C76]

22 hours ago, bobbysgurl said:

I agree.  The simple fact that TPTB made it clear that Abbie had served her purpose in bringing Crane this far should have been the impetus to let her ride off into the sunset.  If she wasn't important enough to go to the next level with Crane, then she should not have been important enough to kill off even if NB left the show.

It was their way of telling us that NB would never be welcomed back to SH.

Yep. That's what I meant when I called her death "insulting". (Not to mention unprofessional.) It looked to me like someone didn't give a damn about giving Abbie a decent send-off. Instead, they were more interested in being a jackass to NB. 

[phoenics]

On 5/4/2016 at 0:50 PM, C76 said:

Yep. That's what I meant when I called her death "insulting". (Not to mention unprofessional.) It looked to me like someone didn't give a damn about giving Abbie a decent send-off. Instead, they were more interested in being a jackass to NB. 

And us.

[Indi]

In the meantime, they didn't bother to make their fave, their true star, a viable hero. It was Abbie, the one to make sacrifices and act for the greater good, while taking care of his deceitful useless ass and keeping her own job. And they have the gall to tell me her job was to support him, until he was ready. LOL, yeah, he "learned to cook", so she had to die. Ichabod is the face of everything mediocre and gone wrong in this show and their first mistake was to place all their bets on him, once they thought they had secured a fandom with their promotion of a "diverse cast".

They had Nicole Beharie and Orlando Jones. They had John Cho! All that talent squandered at the hands of a bunch of untalented dudebros with deeply ingrained misogyny and racism.

[Morrigan2575]

It's funny, i really didn't like Abby that much in early S1. I loved Jenny from her first scene but, it took awhile for me to warm up to Abby. However, in the end Abby and the Abby/Jenny relationship became my favorite parts of the show.

Shame what the Suits pulled with this show.

[LeeLeePanda]

http://madamenoire.com/745983/nicole-beharie-afropop/

Good for Nicole!