Ivy Pepper: Yes, that's what we're calling her

[darkestboy]

 

Not too much known about the Gotham version of her character yet. Likes plants though.

 

I don't like the name change but I am intrigued to see what they'll do with her character in the series.

Edited July 2, 2014 by darkestboy

[MarkHB]

The one thing she brings to the table is an antagonist growing up at the same time as Bruce Wayne who, unlike Selina, is a bona fide nutjob (based on her standard presentation in the comics).  Hopefully the young lady can act, because if this role has any substance (as opposed to being a 1-or-2 appearance character) she's going to need to.

Edited July 2, 2014 by MarkHB

[darkestboy]

I've only seen the actress in Orange Is The New Black and she was good in that but it will depend on what they do with Ivy and how much she'll be in the series.

[Trini]

Re-posting my thoughts on the name:

I think it's silly that they changed her name. I assume it's for the audience to recognize that she grows up to became Poison Ivy. But it's redundant since they already picked the most recognizable/familiar villains for the cast. And no one else got a name change.

That poster is a little too on-the-nose for my taste, with all that foliage in the foreground. And it looks like they're already styling her to look somewhat crazy (the hair).

I don't really have any expectations for this character; I wasn't even expecting her to show up so soon.

[darkestboy]

The name change is silly, I have to agree. It just seems pointless when Selina, Oswald and Edward were allowed to retain their names as well.

 

I do wonder if we'll see Ivy interact with Selina and Bruce a lot or even at all in the series. I can imagine that while we'll see Selina frequently and Bruce semi-frequently, Ivy's appearances might be lesser but I could be wrong though.

[Danny Franks]

The name change is silly, I have to agree. It just seems pointless when Selina, Oswald and Edward were allowed to retain their names as well.

 

 

 

Nah, just wait until the studio execs have passed down their final notes. You'll have Katarina 'Cat' Kyle, and Edward Riddleton (because the execs didn't get the E. Nigma gag) and... Penguin Jones.

 

Renaming Ivy doesn't bother me that much, though I think it's needless (are audiences that dumb? Nope. Do studios think they are? Sadly, yes), but renaming her Ivy Pepper? What the fuck? Who agreed that would be a good name for any character? Why Pepper? Why not Green, if they really want to be on the nose about it?

Edited July 10, 2014 by Danny Franks

[MarkHB]

I'm going to email the University of Maine and suggest that they christen these "ivy peppers".   Because that makes as much sense.  (Maybe even more, since they're actual peppers.)

[Featherhat]

I'd almost prefer the name "Ivy Green" or Verdant or something like that. Yeah its OTT on the nose but it makes more sense than "Ivy Pepper", where I spent a couple of minutes trying to figure out if it was something like Virginia "Pepper" Potts. 

 

I still think Pamela Isley makes the most sense, even if its not immediately obvious. Her initials always match her other name and it kinda rhymes with "Poison Ivy" making more sense than going "I know, I'll change 'Pepper' to 'Poison'".

[Danny Franks]

I'd almost prefer the name "Ivy Green" or Verdant or something like that. Yeah its OTT on the nose but it makes more sense than "Ivy Pepper", where I spent a couple of minutes trying to figure out if it was something like Virginia "Pepper" Potts. 

 

I still think Pamela Isley makes the most sense, even if its not immediately obvious. Her initials always match her other name and it kinda rhymes with "Poison Ivy" making more sense than going "I know, I'll change 'Pepper' to 'Poison'".

 

Or, even simpler now I think about it, just calling her Pamela Ivey. How hard is that? They could even be corny and have people call her by her surname all the time. I just can't fathom where they got 'Pepper' unless, as you suggest, someone connected her somehow to Pepper Potts.

[darkestboy]

Ivy Green would've been better.

 

Ivy Pepper just sounds a bit weird to be honest.

[Trini]

Seriously? The thread title hasn't been fixed yet?

[Lisin]

How did the title need to be fixed? 

[Athena]

Seriously? The thread title hasn't been fixed yet?

 

How did the title need to be fixed? 

 

I fixed it earlier when I saw Trini's post. If anyone needs title changes or edits, please report the post in the future.

[Lisin]

Aaah! That explains it @Athena I was confused. Thanks. 

[MarkHB]

I'm still confused... this is the same thread title I remember from yesterday and all the days before.

 

Meanwhile, Bruno Heller actually addresses the "Ivy Pepper" situation... and it's not stupid network BS.  It actually sounds like it could be not only a powerful story, but a hard one to watch unfold.  But then, the saga of a little girl turning into one of Batman's most psychotic, murderous foes probably shouldn't be TV comfort food.

Edited July 21, 2014 by MarkHB

[Athena]

I'm still confused... this is the same thread title I remember from yesterday and all the days before.

 

The title was missing the "what".

 

Back on topic: This is a silly name and of all the villain foes from Batman they could have explored, I'm least excited about this one compared to the others.

[darkestboy]

I'm still confused... this is the same thread title I remember from yesterday and all the days before.

 

Meanwhile, Bruno Heller actually addresses the "Ivy Pepper" situation... and it's not stupid network BS.  It actually sounds like it could be not only a powerful story, but a hard one to watch unfold.  But then, the saga of a little girl turning into one of Batman's most psychotic, murderous foes probably shouldn't be TV comfort food.

I read up on that too and it's pretty good actually.

 

Her story for the series sounds like it could be one of the most compelling going actually, if handled well.

[Trini]

I was just thinking about Poison Ivy and the other villains/future villains they've included so far in the show, and it occurred to me that she's the only one with sci-fi powers (according to previous incarnations).

Of course, she may end up not having any powers in this version of Batman, but I thought it was interesting considering that all the other villains they picked (so far) are closer to "reality". (And Batman does have a few outlandish, sci-fi villains in his rogues gallery.)

From what I understand about the tone (of the show) and the story/stories they want to tell, it makes sense that they'd leave out the sci-fi villains; but yet they included Ivy-- in the first season. Interesting.

[darkestboy]

Maybe they'll style more into an eco-terrorist and find a way of incorporating her immunity from toxins with a scientific/logical reason.

 

That's all I can think of for now.

[Actionmage]

There are a few ways they ( the writers) can go to tie her immunity to toxins to crime in the city. Drugs, experimental drugs, something meant to retard absorption of pollution into plants/ bodies of water, straight up poisons. If the poor girl's background is to turn dark, there are a handful of ways that acquiring that immunity can happen during the show, yet we eventually get Poison Ivy as a result.

 

There is potentially a good number of stories to tease out of Ivy's past. It'll depend on how clever our writers are at spinning plates. I have some ideas how Ivy/Pamela could fit in, but I'll have to wait to see! Closer now to the premiere, at least!

[darkestboy]

Your suggestions there would eaily work with what this show seems to be attempting.

 

I'm intrigued to see if she'll interact with either Bruce or Selina.

[darkestboy]

Ivy has only been in four episodes and she's a lot scarier than most of the older villains we've had on the show.

 

Especially with her scenes with Bruce and Alfred this week.

[Actionmage]

I'm not seeing "Scary future super-villain" with Ivy. I am seeing a tired, broken kid who is street-smart and pragmatic from necessity. She knows information has a price/is power, so when the obviously rich kid she knows wants some, she only asks for $20. A not outrageous price for the amount of info/ favor sought.

 

She doesn't look overly grungy; it's that her hair is early Hermione Granger and she probably doesn't wash it regularly due to circumstances. (She can "bathe" when she wants in bathrooms, I'm guessing. Shampoo takes up precious cash resources.)

 

I think it's a class thing surrounding Ivy.  She came from a poor family, whose breadwinner was a very low-level abusive thug. Her mom did not seem any better. After what happened with her parents, she was shipped to The System. There was something implied about doctors, right before Selina took Ivy to Barbara's place. She chooses to live as a street person because she has lost trust in the systems that were supposed to help protect/help her.

 

When Bruce and Selina were on the run, I felt for Ivy because  folks assume her default is set to cray-cray. Ivy seems to consistently have no time for idiocy, lies, and being patronized; granted, that's been since her folks were killed, but it makes sense. I am glad that despite Selina's stated fear, she is friendly/ friends with Ivy; those girls need each other in this town. They are still kids, so things will happen, like Ivy's response to Barbara's call- which is still eye-rollingly hilarious, even though I want to like Barbara still.

 

I smiled seeing Clare Foley's name in the credits. She really does add to what the scripts have. As darkestboy noted, in only four episodes, but I'm sure the audience feels they understand Ivy some. They would know what might feel out-of-character. 

 

I continue to enjoy Ms. Foley and Ivy. Looking forward to her next appearance!

[darkestboy]

Foley is brilliant as is both Bicondova and Mazouz. The younger actors on this show have been excellent to watch.

 

The fact that we've only seen Ivy sporadically as well so far I think has worked in the character's favour too.

[darkestboy]

We now have a new Poison Ivy. Maggie Geha will be playing an older version of the character for Season 3, who has been upped to a regular .....

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/22/gotham-maggie-geha-poison-ivy

[ratgirlagogo]

So.......... this means they're jumping forward in the timeline?  or what?

[MarkHB]

7 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

So.......... this means they're jumping forward in the timeline?  or what?

Spoiler

She's going to run into an Indian Hill monster and some crazy stuff will then happen.

[darkestboy]

No time jumps but it does make me think if they wanted an older Ivy from the beginning, what didn't they just, y'know have her as an older character. She could've been 16-17 in Season 1, contrasting Selina being 13 and Bruce being 12 etc.

[Actionmage]

• Quote

No time jumps but it does make me think if they wanted an older Ivy from the beginning

I'm not sure that TPTB wanted an older teen for Ivy/Pamela. Instead of equals, it could have been an older Ivy/Pamela protecting Selina and Bruce against the assassin and the various low-level thugs we saw menace Selina, Ivy and Bruce in the first season. Or selling them out.

It sounds like TPTB are sort of going in the direction we here were thinking might happen. [ From Mark HB on July 20, 2014 to myself on Sept. 18, 2014.]  Which, to be honest, I'd be happier with if we aren't going to keep Claire Foley. Maggie Geha could bring some coolness if she is allowed to hang with Selina. Ivy/ Pamela is going to need a good friend. 

[darkestboy]

Cast shot for Maggie Geha's Ivy ....

Edited August 10, 2016 by darkestboy

[VCRTracking]

From io9:

Gotham Producer's Reasons for Sexing Up Poison Ivy Make No Sense But Are Very Gross

The writer of the article makes a good point here:

Quote

On the other hand, isn’t she still a child? Like, just because the actor isn’t a teenager anymore doesn’t mean the character doesn’t still have the mind of a child. She hasn’t lived extra years just because some creep used his superpower to age her up.

[Kathemy]

I hate the recast just as much as (probably more than) everyone, but I take issue with the writer's bash against Silver St. Cloud. I don't mind uncomfortable television. I mind stupid television. Silver St. Cloud's storyline wasn't stupid television, in fact it made sense from start to finish, despite being a very dark subject.

Maybe the writer of the piece should go watch Nickelodeon.

[Danielg342]

The writer sounds like one of those laptop feminists who believe any time there's fanservice for men it's automatically "oppressive". She even wrote a ridiculous article condemning the costumes of Jumanji, where Karen Gillan's character wears a T-Shirt that simply exposes her belly (a shirt not unlike many you'd see being worn today, and completely appropriate for the conditions).

As for Ivy- as much as I find her being aged up to be ridiculous because it's lazy, quite a bit of the article is pure speculation. The writer seems to think the character will still act child-like, and we haven't seen if that will be the case. The producer is pretty clear that the new Ivy will act like a young adult, so any idea that the new Ivy is still "a child" is specious at best. Even still, pretending that 14-year-olds cannot themselves be seductresses is denying reality- as much as adults like to make believe that their teens are "innocent kids who'd never compromise their morals", we all know the truth is anything but, and I appreciate that this show recognizes that instead of treating Bruce like a perpetual kid. If Bruce were real, he would be interested in girls and he'd have lots of them wanting to come after him- it's high time the show recognized that, and I'm glad they do.

[Kathemy]

Well first of all I'd like to wish Clare Foley an early birthday. She's turning 15 in two days. Of course these kind of people will forever be unable to recognize that; to them, Clare Foley is forever 14 just as all the young cast of Gotham can forever be insulted as pre-teens to suit their agenda.

What the article sounds like is your standard regressive Feminist combining a perverted gender war theory with Victorian moralism. It's third-wave Feminism in an unholy alliance with the religious Right. It's a truly horrid and reactionary ideology.

Frankly I almost hope that season three will end up with Bruce sleeping with Selina just to drive them nuts.

[MarkHB]

BTS Featurette on Ivy... Spoilers for, I assume, Episode 2

Spoiler

 

[darkestboy]

I have to admit, I'm intrigued to see where they go with Maggie Geha playing the role as Ivy now.

They should have the character change her name to Pamela Isley and also delve into the eco-terrorist side to her as well as the seductress (which is still weird, considering that mentally, Ivy is still a child).

[Kathemy]

I also find it highly illustrative that the author of that piece refers to Marv as a "creep". She's probably so used to insulting men with sexually charged terms she just keeps doing it even when it makes no sense whatsoever.

[MarkHB]

Maggie Geha is taking questions on Twitter right now, and this is one of her answers:

https://twitter.com/maggiegeha/status/780534151749443584

[Kathemy]

I think the bottom line is that there won't be many resemblances between old and new Ivy.

[Sakura12]

So that guy's power not only rapidly ages people, it also gives them the experiences and mentality of aging? What an extensive power.

It's not the actress fault. It's the writers fault for not thinking this through in the first place. 

[Trini]

So icky. On so many levels.

They could have 1)delayed this story, 2) not done it at all, 3) done it with another a character, or 4) do the story differently. But, clearly, they really wanted to do Sexy Ivy since they had to invent a magical way to age her up (recast with an older actress). So. Ick.

[Kathemy]

It feels like a desperation move, which is puzzling.

I didn't think this episode was very "icky", I just thought it was really, really dumb.

It's not the actress's fault but to be completely fair she seems very limited and no, not at all able to take the character to "new heights", plus she didn't bother to channel Clare at all. It's simply not the same character anymore. At all.

[darkestboy]

They say it in the episode that this Ivy is different inside and out, so Maggie was probably told or consciously chose not channel Clare at all.

I'm still undecided. I thought she did a good job with the scenes she had but we need to see the character properly in action first before any of us can decide whether or not it's an experiment that has worked. Keeping an open mind for now.

[Danielg342]

Mileage will vary on Geha's abilities. I think she did just fine, especially considering she was limited by the writers.

The problem- I agree with @Trini here- is the writers so desperately wanted "sexy Ivy" without showing her growth. I think that's a slap in the face of the character and to the whole premise of this show, which is to show us the characters origins, and aging up Ivy does none of that.

I can only hope it's executive meddling that brought us "New Ivy".

[Kathemy]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

The problem- I agree with @Trini here- is the writers so desperately wanted "sexy Ivy" without showing her growth. I think that's a slap in the face of the character and to the whole premise of this show, which is to show us the characters origins, and aging up Ivy does none of that.

I've said that since day one and everyone kept going on about how I was "overreacting"...

[Sakura12]

Considering she's the only character not going by her comic name. They could've just made a different character. Pamela Isley can show up and be the sexy seductress character with control over plants. Ivy Pepper could've just been a nod. They were getting rid of the character of anyway and from the looks of it in the episode thread they didn't really set up her connection to plants all that well. A new character would've worked better and they could've shown flashbacks to how she became who she is.  

[xander874]

Poison Ivy #3 on the way!

[Kathemy]

So I'm spamming. Sorry. I posted this trash both to /r/Gotham and to my tumblr. Sue me. I have strong feelings! :-/

Now: Everytime I come across this picture on my blog I get a little more angry.

You wanted Ivy and Bruce as a foil for Batcat? (Don't bother denying it. It's been clear both in articles and later in talks with Geha at conventions. She was cast specifically to seduce people and they had her set to go after Bruce Wayne. That's before the show retreated in the face of the fury of the fanbase, who somehow found it unpalatable with a child in a thirty-year-old body putting the moves on teenage Batman.)

You had the perfect choice staring you right in the face.

But of course! Clare had no boobs, and girls with no boobs can’t make people fall in love with them. /s

Edited November 9, 2017 by Kathemy
The Edit Curse