Bringonthedrama

The introduction of Skip makes me wonder about Karen. I know that Jack, Will and Grace are all single again and did not have children with their exes - but what about Karen? Did I miss a mention of the always off-screen Stan and his kids? Did she divorce him, or did he die? Are those stepkids a part of her life?

I assumed there was a mention of Elliot's mother, and I just missed it because I tuned in a few minutes late. Geez, writing fail there. I agree - the audience really needed to have a line or two (maybe one from Elliot, one from Skip?) spelling out why Elliot was estranged from Jack and why he went along with sending Skip to a conversion camp. I think we got a hint from Elliot's wife's clear discomfort at seeing nude male art in the apartment and Jack's personality on full display in a costume, then Elliot's line later about the fight with his wife and her demanding to know if he wants their son to turn out like Jack. But that's not good enough; it needs to be blatant. I wonder if Jack and Elliot have been estranged in recent years because conservative Emma asked Elliot to keep his distance from Jack (and Bonnie, too). There are still people in the world believing that a youngster can be influenced to turn gay by spending time with gay people. I used to be friends with a conservative Catholic woman who told me that underage boys only turned gay because of being raped/molested my male adults. It would not surprise me that a young man like Elliot, deeply in love with Emma, would go along with what she believed or wanted. He did not have a model of a healthy male-female relationship growing up because Bonnie was a single mother. She specifically told Jack when they met that she had never told Elliot she was gay, and she did everything for him as a parent. So he didn't have a second live-in parent, either man or woman, to have any idea what a good partnership/marriage looks like.

Yup, and I assume Danny will appear at least briefly by Mommy's side while masked Jason is face-to-face with Sam. Remember back when SK's AJ revealed himself to Michael at Halloween, and Robin was in costume at a Halloween party when she first came face-to-face with Patrick and Emma after being "dead.".TPTB on this show can't resist plot point recycling.

I missed all of it except that final conversation; that part was great. It felt authentic to the characters, and I'm pretty sure it was Debra Messing (not Grace) laughing at Jack/Sean's delivery of the "sad middle-age" line. These four characters just fit so well together in a scene - I've really missed that.

Nobody is re-making the "Sonny ruins everything" t-shirts. Spinelli only makes guest appearances, so Sonny definitely still holds the "ruins everything" title.

Lorelai is a part of the community but never seems truly tied to anyone other than Rory, Luke and Sookie, and she's an outsider in her parents' world. Both Luke and Lorelai in their own ways are very independent by choice yet also a little lonely and know what it's like not to fully fit in. They both seemed to instinctively understand that about each other, which is part of what I always felt drew them together. This is accurate. One day in the diner, she flat out said to Luke "I have Rory, and Sookie, this town and...you. At least, I think...?" And Luke responded, "You do."

Aside from telling Lorelai about his father/reasons for not wanting to spruce up the diner, the confiding moment that stands out in my memory was the "I'm not wearing my socks" dialogue. He quietly told Lorelai (while they were in the diner) that he realized his wife, Nicole, had been cheating. He put on another guy's socks, and realized it later. I got the very distinct impression that he was *not* going to be sharing that information with Jess or any other Stars Hollow folks.

I would say they were close friends, and they did socialize. Aside from the movie night mentioned above, Luke and Jess came over for dinner at Lorelai's invitation (Jess didn't stay), they had a fairly intimate conversation about Luke's dad/why Luke never spruced up the diner, Lorelai accompanied Luke (at his request) to see a house he was considering buying for himself and Jess, Luke and Lorelai teamed up to break the bell (s?) in the tower that they hated, Luke and Lorelai had a "picnic" lunch in the gazebo for that town basket event, Lorelai accompanied Luke to his uncle's burial, and Lorelai furiously told Jess off because he got drunk to cope with badly hurt feelings from Jess saying mean things to him.

Seemed like it was combination of his family's prestige (esp. the Huntzberger connection to journalism and such events as the party for the writer), Logan's writing talent and being knowledgeable about famous journalists, and Logan validating her as a person and journalist. Logan had made it clear that his "disinterest" was that he didn't feel he could do a relationship - not that he wasn't interested in her as a person or as a sex partner. He liked casual sex, and correctly guessed she wasn't into that. Rory being attracted to Logan for those reasons is exactly why the tension started with Lorelai. While Lorelai claimed she wanted Rory to have the life and advantages she never had, she obviously never gave any thought as to what that would look like - that it would separate them. Lorelai was not well read (I don't think we ever saw her with any book other than a travel guide for NY), didn't visit museums, didn't have intellectual friends (couldn't really relate to fiance Max), and got annoyed by Rory saying they couldn't carve their initials into this or that space in the halls of Chilton (moments after graduation) because Rory kept associating the spaces with such and such notable scholar/famous person. All of Lorelai's non-work interests seemed to be movies, music, and pop culture. Once when Rory told Lorelai, in a frustrated tone, that she can't understand whatever situation Rory was upset about because she didn't go to college, Lorelai looked taken aback. It seemed like she just assumed Rory would only be part of that high-society world while she was in college classrooms - no developing of long-term friendships with intellectuals and/or the rich, no high-society relationship in part because of course her mother wouldn't approve, no building of stronger bonds with her grandparents despite *Richard being an alum.* I remember when people surrounded Rory during her 21st b-day at the Gilmore home, and Lorelai was quite literally left out of the circle, she looked heartbroken. I believe that in her heart, she wanted to keep Rory to herself *always.* I think she had naively believed Rory would never stop being her BFF daughter-fellow small town girl first; high-society events/interests and friendships or relationships with guys like Logan would come secondary to Mommy.

Rory could be assertive and sharp with a guy when she wasn't into him or in a relationship with him. Tristan was the first example of it. Tristan kinda liked Rory, but the feeling wasn't mutual. She and Tristan kissed because they both felt like crap (her about breaking up with Dean) and had a real moment of connection when he wasn't just being a show-off ass. Before they started dating, Jess picked up on hostility coming from Rory and asked about it. She angrily told him that the people of Stars Hollow had been giving Luke a hard time about taking in Jess given all his hoodlum behaviors, that Luke has done a lot for her and her mom, and that Jess didn't seem to care about getting along with anyone, or give a damn about making life difficult for Luke. While Rory was probably somewhat attracted to him then, she was still definitely invested in her relationship with Dean/not thinking of Jess in a romantic way (in my opinion). Fast forward to Logan at Yale. Logan and the h.s. girl from Chilton could see Rory was angry with Logan for pulling that stunt with his LDB buddies in the middle of her class. Once the Chilton girl walked away, Rory told Logan he was a "butt-faced miscreant" and that they valued different things. Logan was taken aback. I believe she thought he was attractive at that point, but wasn't yet thinking of him in a romantic way.

Rory was a teenager who impulsively kissed a boy she had feelings for, while still in a relationship with another guy. She knew Dean was "so in love" with her, that her mom approved of Dean but not Jess, and the same for the rest of Stars Hollow. She was in denial about falling out of love with Dean, and also didn't want to hurt him. I think spending the summer in Washington with Paris was definitely at least in part about refusing to face her feelings and make a difficult choice after an initial impulse. All of that is a mistake a lot of girls that age could make. Her mistakes with Dean and Logan in the years to come are not so forgivable. Except for the AYITL revival, I don't think it's right to compare Rory and Lorelai in terms of honest, flaws, and such because Rory was a teen/young 20something while the audience met Lorelai in her 30s. I don't think Lorelaid was more honest at all, the one exception was confessing to Luke that she'd spent the night with Christopher when they fought. Rory didn't confess to her boyfriend about cheating with Logan in AYITL. Lorelai tended to pick fights with her parents, Sookie, Rory, or Luke when she was upset about something that had either nothing to do with them, or little to do with them. One I remember (because it was so idiotic) was Lorelai picking a fight with teenage Rory "for borrowing/stretching out my sweater" because she was... I think jealous of the attention Rory was getting from Emily and Richard. Lorelai was rarely one to come out and say, "I'm angry/hurt/scared by your actions/talks of plans." Had she flat-out told Luke she wasn't okay with postponing the wedding and was feeling insecure instead of stuffing her feelings, getting drunk and humiliating herself at Lane and Zack's wedding, maybe the Chris/Lorelai/Luke mess wouldn't have ever happened (in a perfect world where AS-P didn't want to tank the show because she left). If you want to make a comparison, when Rory realized Logan was going to marry Odette whether she remained in his life or not, she quietly decided to walk away after that last night together. She didn't react to disappointment by getting drunk and being disruptive somewhere, embarrassing herself or any friends or family. I also saw Rory care about her mother's and grandparents' feelings and welfare on a regular basis during the series, compared to approx. 5 times that Lorelai did - including both the series and AYITL. Rory's downward spiral, where she didn't care about being considerate to her mother or her grandparents, is the clear exception to her pattern of caring. I've wondered if Rory's attachment to Logan "the jerk" (as Jess called him) was someone a psychological response to missing out on her father's love and attention. Even she acknowledged similarities between Logan and Christopher when they compared getting kicked out of schools. Yes, Rory had Richard's love, but she was not one of Richard's top priorities on a weekly basis. Logan often made her feel like she was a top priority for him, which made it easier for her to ignore or forgive the controlling and other behaviors she or family/friends didn't like.

I think that's how Lorelai was too - until Rory told her she was dropping out of Yale. Logan seemed like a Lorelai-Chris combo in personality (toxic), but with drive and intellect like Richard had starting in youth, but they lacked. Lorelai liked to tap dance around ever being held accountable. She always had to keep the upper hand with Rory, esp. regarding how much time Rory spent with her grandparents. Some of that, though, was jealousy over Rory being the Gilmore "second chance" where Lorelai had failed to make them proud as a teenager.

Aside from Emily missing L&L's nighttime wedding, I thought she got a good ending in the revival, and that Kelly Bishop did a fabulous job. I thought LW and MV did a good job with their roles too. The Jess character seemed to be an even more grounded, mature version of the guy we saw in Philadelphia when Rory, Luke and April visited the small press shop where he worked. Logan of the AYITL was a continuation of *the Logan character AS-P created during the series.* The writing for AYITL never acknowledged that Logan and Rory had been serious, that Richard's last on-screen words to Lorelai were complimentary (at Rory's surprise party), that Rory's first post-Yale writing job was covering Obama on the campaign trail, or that Luke had made an effort to be a good father to April. I was taken aback by Lorelai and Luke's conversation in his diner, where she said he didn't get to have the experience of raising a child and seeing his child graduate. He helped raise April starting at almost 13 years old. I also don't believe Luke would miss April's high school graduation! That conversation was written like April didn't exist. It seems like the only thing AS-P acknowledged in AYITL's writing, which she didn't create during the series, was that line or two in the therapist's office when Lorelai said she and Rory's father were married briefly.

Sarah doesn't have to be re-cast to give Liz some sense of family. She could look a bit crushed that Hayden's gone, and someone, maybe Bobbie (due to the history) could ask if she's okay because she seems pretty upset. Liz could then have a line like "It's just ... I talked to my sister Sarah, and she wanted me and the boys, Grams and Hayden to come see her for Thanksgiving. She was looking forward to meeting Hayden, and to becoming an aunt again. Feeling like a family has been especially hard since Steven went to prison. I thought her idea was great and I was going ask Hayden, but she took off before I got a chance. So I'm a little sad." Or Liz could run into Olivia in the hospital for some reason, and congratulate her on her recent marriage to Ned. Olivia could say something about feeling really blessed because she didn't believe she would find happiness again after Steven went to prison. O: "How is Steven?" L: "He's okay. He misses caring for patients, seeing my boys grow up. But he'll make parole in xxxx and we'll see him for Thanksgiving or Christmas. I'm really looking forward to that." Is it really that hard to throw in some lines once in a while letting the audience know that she's not all alone in the world except for runaway Hayden? That she actually talks to *some* family, even though we still don't know her mother's name after all these years? SHEESH.

Emily was definitely upset about the pregnancy, but was outraged at how the Haydens basically implied that Lorelai seduced their innocent son and she should get the procedure to "fix" this problem so as to not derail his promising young future. It seemed like they saw Lorelai as an obstacle in their son's life, not an actual person. Emily rightly called them out on it. Later we as the audience saw that the Haydens had no use for teenage Rory. The Gilmores didn't have an issue with Christopher, it was their age. I think if Lorelai had been dating Chris at 26 and gotten pregnant, they would have probably pushed for a marriage but not tried to demand it like Richard did when they were kids ... whereas the Haydens didn't ever want Christopher with Lorelai because in their delusional minds about their kid, her behavior/reputation was "beneath" him. The Huntzbergers attitude toward "not raised that way" Rory reminded me of the Haydens.

I think 90% of that came from Lorelai? She was the one with lines like "you're the greatest kid in the world," "the perfect angel granddaughter," "Rory would never steal" (the robe conversation with Emily) and "Rory doesn't lie" (line to Dean, while they stood outside Luke's watching Rory talking to Jess). I remember Richard and Emily just generally bragging to people about how smart Rory was. Lorelai needed to believe she raised a flawless kid, as a sort of middle finger to her parents that running away as a teenager with a baby was not a mistake. If the writers wanted to make Rory a basically decent person who made serious mistakes but wasn't self-centered like Lorelai, they could have done so. I could see a teenage Lorelai stealing a boat that belonged to her parents' friends, in an angry tantrum meant to embarrass her parents. For Rory, it was absurd. I would find it far more realistic for her desperate reaction to "you don't got it" to be stealing someone else's extensive research after working with them briefly, to write an amazing story and "prove Mitchum wrong" ... or outright plagiarize someone's writing to prove to Mitchum and the rest of the world that she wasn't an academic failure and that she's got what it takes. Then she would have gotten caught, and had a believable downward spiral. On a related note (but pre-Huntzbergers), I could buy Rory kissing Dean and possibly doing more than that with him when he was comforting her during her "I'm failing, I'm failing" crying breakdown re: Yale when she was unable to reach Lorelai. For her to have sex with Dean in her childhood bedroom - when she was only there to get CDs! - because he showed up at her house, went in for a kiss and told her "I can't make her [Lindsey] happy" was also absurd. And then again at Ms. Patty's studio, when she knew Dean and Lindsey were still together. I found it an especially WTF situation because she was so upset with Christopher for walking away from them for Sheree when he "promised" they were going to be a family. Dean and Lindsey also made promises to each other when they said their vows on their wedding day. She already understood the concept of marriage and promises, because she was a young bridesmaid for Sookie and Jackson's wedding day. Lazy, inconsistent writing (or writing to fit a pre-conceived narrative, like Rory is just a better educated mini-Lorelai) irritates me, what can I say. LOL.

True. In the desire to make Rory not-so-perfect and to show her 'torn' between her Stars Hollow life and the high-society life her mother rejected, the writers went waaaay overboard. it is ironic to watch earlier seasons after seeing the Rory who graduated Yale and the Rory of the revival. One example is Rory getting angry at Paris for cheating on good-guy Jamie and then blowing him off, when Paris gets involved with the old professor friend of Richard's (because we know Rory goes on to sleep with married Dean, and then engaged Logan). Another example is h.s. Rory telling Paris (moments before they all get busted) that the Puffs breaking into the Headmaster's office at Chilton is NOT okay (because we know Rory goes on to to decide to STEAL A BOAT, with Logan along for the ride). And during the Mother-Daughter weekend with Emily, Lorelai tells Emily that Rory is far too moral to *steal a robe*. LOL. There were ways to make Rory an imperfect character, without fundamentally changing who she was as a kid. Logan was more of a symptom of a bigger problem, than the problem itself - though Lorelai tried to place the blame at his feet.

There were scenes to establish why Rory was into Logan. Rory was the star of a party Richard and Emily threw, to show off their granddaughter to a bunch of young men they felt would be more suitable than Dean for the world Rory was becoming a part of, as a Yale student. Rory got cornered by some guy she clearly wasn't interested in, and Logan swooped in and put his arm around her to act like she was already taken (she was, but not by him). Then he said he "hates" parties like these - something Lorelai or Chris would say. Then, later that evening, Logan and friends witness Dean dump Rory, and decide to cheer her up. She finds out, while writing for the YDN, that when Logan isn't partying and bedding women, he's a talented writer. She hopes to get invited to an event he's going to in NY, featuring a famous writer. And when she spends the weekend with the LDB for the story she's writing and declines to do the big jump, Logan speaks of writers who experienced what they wrote, who really lived. He encouraged/pushed her to get out of her comfort zone and have experiences that would enhance her writing. She was also attracted to him, both physically and to his ability to charm (including her grandparents, which Dean and Jess didn't do for obvious reasons). Contrast that with Dean working at the marketing and saying "I like everything you write" when Rory asked for a critique of a story. He didn't know anything about writing or journalists. Young Jess was well read and snarky, but had too many self-esteem issues, and anger toward his mother, to be mature in his relationship with Rory. I think Adult Jess - the guy who encouraged her in the revival - could absolutely be her intellectual equal and encourage her like Logan did, minus the smarm and cheating that accompanied Logan.

The writing for Sonny nowadays (and MB's acting) wouldn't really care if Max died, aside from the usual 'I'm going to make X pay for coming after me' and what to do about the role Max played in his life. He also doesn't care about Diane's thoughts, feelings or opinions when they're not about getting him, or an associate like Jason, out of legal trouble. The only reason he cared as much as he did about Duke's death is because super evil mortal enemy Julian was responsible, so he could rant over and over and over again about big bad Julian (meanwhile, Sonny's responsible for ... how many deaths over the years)?

It's great that he wasn't worth acknowledging. But after how Carly's choices have negatively impacted both Jason and AJ over many years (including helping the guy who killed her son AJ!!), Monica has been friendly to/ thanking her on at least one occasion. So I had no idea how she would react, or not, to Sonny this time.

Two moments I liked about Jason being shot: 1) Upon learning that Jason is stable, Monica walks away (to get some breathing space) without even looking at Sonny or acknowledging his presence. 2) Elizabeth approaching Monica to check on her, and hold her hand. I thought that was both a nice professional and personal moment, given Elizabeth's history with Monica's children. I know Sonny just assumes Jason will be fine because of the numerous bullet wounds and explosions they've both survived, but he was so calm you'd think Jason only got a nasty cut and needed stitches. Also, Carly holding onto Sam while she cries is just weird. These two women were never friends, so the writing like they're besties after all the years of bad blood over Jason rings really false. Of course, the same thing could be said of the almost insta-sisterhood between Elizabeth and Hayden. At this point, I feel like Elizabeth's kids and Danny should agree it's time to escape their "normal" homes, Danny should rescue Scout from her crib, and the five kids should run off to live with Aunt Molly and TJ - the only healthy couple they know regularly behaving like responsible and sane adults. Nikolas and Molly were cousins, so that's close enough for the couple to be the Webber kids' family, too.

It probably is (for manufactured drama reasons) when Robin's not visiting. For Sam's first 2017 medical crisis, post-birth of Scout, Robin was the one at Jason's side, trying to calm and comfort him. It seems like the writers have decided that Liz or Robin *must be around* when Jason, Sam or the kids are in crisis. Also, Liz is the only nurse at this point (aside from rarely seen Bobbie) to have any real, developed history with anyone. The blabbing of medical information is a regular thing at GH. I think everyone on staff has given a patient's medical information to non-family members of patients, including Robin. Some staff members have been on the receiving end of that, like when Dr. Lee told Elizabeth in front of both Lucky and Nikolas that she was pregnant. Or the time when *everyone* seemed to find out that Sabrina's baby boy died, and Sabrina certainly wasn't going around informing people. That's not even counting the many times Carly has demanded information about someone who's been admitted as a patient, often Jason, and no one on staff tells her "you're not family, so buzz off." Another reason to hate how entitled Carly, Sonny, Jason and Sam are.

Why can't Sam have a storyline about parenthood (minus terrible illness of child), instead of weeping over Jason so much? Simple: Danny starts acting stand-offish around Jason, and Sam asks him why. Danny avoids answering, multiple times. She overhears Danny tell Jake "I'm not so sure Dad is a good guy." Sam notices Danny is quieter and more stand-offish whenever he comes home after he's been at the Q mansion. She puts her PI skills to use and finds out Danny has been talking to a guy he's seen around the mansion and on the grounds. The guy tells him 'Your dad used to kill people for a living" and other background information, like "Your Uncle Sonny has killed, too..Finally when Sam presses Danny, he points to a Q family photo. "That's him, Mom!" and he indicates SK's A.J. I want to see Sam and Jason try to pick a fight with Ghost!AJ for telling their son the truth. I would actually like to see Danny want nothing to do with Jason or Franco because of finding out they've killed people without remorse, but with this show I can't have nice things. Proof yet again in that SBu is coming back while JJ's Lucky is off ....wherever, ignoring his children.

This sounds like a recycle of "Sam's con-artist background involved marrying rich men," with the climax of the WTF storyline being that Sam's show producer held a grudge against Sam because her stepdad had married young Sam, and Sam shot and killed the guy in self-defense (when they were fighting, or maybe it was he abused her, can't remember).

Is it too much to hope that Alan and Monica lost/thought they lost a son at birth in the '80s, and it turns out to be BM's Jason? (Assuming BM's character isn't AJ.) Monica should have another kid; she's lost too many. And baby Scout needs to still be a Q grandkid. I know it's petty, but I really want to see a conversation in which Kristina is stupidly chirping about her dad and stepmom being back together, and says something positive about Carly, which causes Valerie to look noticeably upset, or at least frown a bit. K: "Valerie, what's wrong? Do you have a problem with Carly?" V: "Sort of. Her voice killed my mom." K: "Oh. Sorry. Wow...." V" What?" K: "I just realized, it's ultimately Carly's fault that you and my brother had an affair. She'd be proud if she realized that - my stepmother has a gleeful history of messing with marriages."