fantique

@Ceylon5 Because liking it is not enough...

This is a rant coming from a black young woman who is fed up. Warning: I have insomnia and have not slept for the past 72 hours so look away, this might get a little frantic but I need to get it out. For Pete's sake can we get away from that whole "Ooh, the eeeeeviiiillll TPTB are carrying out their white supremacist agenda while distracting us by having a larger than usual part of cast that are not white". I mean seriously? If they are actually against non-whites working in the industry then they are the least effective racist and discriminative people EVER. First of all, I have never heard any of the execs or writers talk about how proud they are to have a cast that is racially diverse. That's the media. Even the actors try to stay away from that; Orlando Jones even said when asked if the show is going to address that, he answered (very genuinely and kind of blurted it out BTW, it was really funny. Nicole and Tom looked at him like "Alright, dude. Chill out." ) "I hope not!!!". I said that in another thread on this site regarding Diggle in Arrow; the character and the actor are both more than their skin colour and it is a disservice to both to reduce them to being only a skin colour. If anyone is unhappy with the way Abbie has been handled, say that. If you feel that when they realised people don't like Katrina they try to show more of her and that impacts negatively on Abbie's development, just say that. A lot of people don't like Katrina; trying to emphasise the point by bringing in racism is ineffective and unnecessary because most people would agree anyway that with Katrina, less is more fun. ETA: I am hoping that changes though because having a prominent character that's unappealing is a toll on the viewer and the show. I still have faith because last season was a half season really and she was away from the main action which is always awkward. Also with regards to the love aspect, well the Cranes are already married... Meaning they shouldn't take as much screentime to show their relationship as it would if they just met and want to date. Most of the screentime the Cranes will spend together will probably have to do with the whole Apocalypse thing. They do have to work on the relation a bit to at least make it more watchable (I liked them in the flashbacks so it's possible) because that's either that or we have to resort FF watching or hate watching and that's sad... Plus, Abbie is awesome and her being single does not mean that she has nothing going for her. I am way more interested in her familial relationships than seeing her dating. I think the writers didn't conceptualise Abbie and Crane being together (why would their initial concept for him would be of him with a wife otherwise) so they were taken by surprise and have to navigate around the problem of showing the witnesses getting along and bonding without veering into romantic territory, although i admit they are clumsy with it. WRT Abbie taking Katrina shopping, a few things. 1) Oh no!!! How horrible! Abbie is nice to her friend's wife (who is also a witch which would be welcome in their magically inferior team)!!! How dare they? What are they thinking? -sarcasm- 2) If they are worried about projected tension between Abbie and Katrina because of the shipping, showing them friendly and getting along is a good way to dissipate that. I don't get why people seem wary of them hanging out. What's the alternative, Abbie ignoring her? Because that's not awkward at all. 3) Do you see Jenny taking anyone shopping? Lols 4) I hate when people bring servitude into it because most of the time it's pretty much projection. If Crane was helped by... I am trying to come up with anyone of the relevant characters who isn't white for this comparison and all I got is detective Jones (Morales' partner), would you talk about servitude? Because you can assume that she is being treated like a servant in helping the Cranes if there was any other that things could happen but no matter what happened and who ever was with Crane they would be teaching/helping with things in the 21st Century. It would have been the case if it was a man, woman, White, Black, Asian, etc. Actually I am pretty sure that if Abbie Mills was Abe Mills and there was be great chemistry and bromance there would be people shipping that too and still hating Katrina. 5)The argument that seals the deal (for me at least); they did not write this character with a black actress in mind. Nicole pretty much stumbled across the part, auditioned and got it; therefore the portion of the cast that is black would obviously be bigger since people related to her would be black. She basically did the only thing any individual belonging to a minority in a Western country should do that truly helps against informal discrimination: Be good. At whatever they do. Not bitching about how unfair life is and bringing it back to race every time she doesn't get a part. Not saying it hasn't happened, probably has since casting directors are often hung up on physical appearance not necessarily because racism is involved but if they want a redhead, pale skin girl or a blonde with blue eyes, etc... To quote a fellow poster "I'll save my outrage for real racial injustices". Also if you are going to call a group of people racist or accuse them of discrimination it's better to back it up with something other than your own interpretation of what's on the screen. With Sleepy Hollow, all the promotion I see is about Abbie and Crane and new monsters. Season 1, focus wise, I think they tried to go half-half with the first half being more about Abbie's life and background story and the second with Crane since the buildup would be leading to the 2 Horsemen being linked to him. Anyway that's my spiel and I am sticking to it.

I am kind of bitter about people already being dissatisfied by the guy who was cast as Ra's Al Ghul (sp?) just because he is not a big name.

Honesty I think he was right calling these people out. I mean the guy comments most things and he went No Comment when posting the Poster. I have a feeling HE doesn't even like it. So when reading his post I didn't feel like he was insulting those who don't like poster, he was very obviously targeting who clearly had it in for KC. They are colleagues, from the interactions and pictures KC and the rest of the cast seem to be friendly so of course he has a right to defend the poor girl. And he was very clear that who he was annoyed at was people who were sending him alterations of the poster (And I am basing this on the original post; not even the edited version: "On a related note, don't send me alterations of the S3 poster. This page isn't a landing spot for negative assholes. You dinks have the rest of the internet. Leave us alone."). He was talking about posting it on his page, not the CW's, not the Arrow's, his. He has the right to ask people not to post certain things on his page. People putting it on these alternative venues would've been more appropriate because last time I checked, SA is not part of the PR team for CW. And those were the people responsible for the poster. This is not the first instance here where we have talked about people reacting negatively towards something that wasn't even meant for them. Maybe people should actually read social media posts instead of jumping the gun and acting in outrage when the person is not even talking about them. I get that it's a danger with social media but surely we are tech savvy enough to know that every single post a person submits is not necessarily meant for everyone that will read it. Anyway, all this to say that I feel he was right in posting this, and people need to edit themselves because certain things are just as inappropriate on Facebook as they would be if you were walking around in the street and shouting them out. They certainly have the same effect. If you go up to someone and attack their friend they are going to react. I think people thought that since the negativity is not thrown towards him, he would be cool with people basically attacking his cast-mate. ETA: for the whole "don't watch" thing. Sorry but he is kind of right. If they spend more of their time bitching and sending negative feedback to a show then maybe they should stop watching it? For example, I am not happy about Laurel but the rest of the show is good so I watch. I mean even here on this forum we regularly kind of have to move on from a certain issue because it has become a dead horse and it is tiring. If at any point in time I find myself spending more time bitching about the show than I am enjoying it then yes, I will stop watching to end my own misery. Not throw hate online at the person portraying the character I don't like. Then again some people like hate-watching. But I guess this is a question of YMMV so yeah...

Cashing in my token. This poster is bad. Then again the quality of the Posters for the other shows on CW that I saw were terrible as well. They looked like they were drawings of video games characters before they had 3D rendition but are still trying for "realistic". I also must echo the frustration about Felicity not looking like Felicity.

Sorry but I am pretty sure her eye fluttering and twitching eye fit was meant to be all like "Oh.Em.Gee... I see it now! It was staring me in the face this whole time". I think that the root of the problem is 2-fold. 1) Laurel lance is more of a concept than a "real person" like character. They just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. So... inconsistency. 2) It seems KC is more into what she wants than she is into the show. At least in season 1 her attire seemed character centred but in season 2... Weird. Her interviews show that she ignores parts of the show that don't fit into what she envisions for her character and her acting instincts just seem to be off here. She just does not seem to be connecting with the show... She should just do her best, go out with a bang and cut her losses. I hope they make her more bearable for the majority of the viewers and then have her tragic loss affect the other characters. While I think they can make her ok, I don't think I will ever be able to like her. Anything that would erase her behaviour from the past 2 seasons would be a retcon and make me lose any respect for the writers and the show. I am just puzzled by those writers. I mean they knew something was wrong after season 1. It's like the character just doesn't inspire them and every time they bring her to the A-plot, it's character assassination all around... Just why. I know it's called Show Business but it's still a creativity based industry and half-arsing it just makes it worse and convoluted. It feels like they wrote themselves into a corner when it comes to Laurel

BTW, this is not directed at the poster I am responding to just me ranting about some comments I hear in general. Someone might have already answered to this but honestly I am kind of over the whole race issue being brought up when people are dissatisfied with the treatment of a certain character. (And before anyone embarrasses themselves by saying I am racist or unaware of the challenges of being a person of colour, I am black which is why it's always a major annoyance with me) Just say that the character deserves better than what they are offered as an opportunity for growth. The character of John Diggle and the actor David Ramsey are more than their skin colour. So treat them like individuals not avatars representing a group of people. If someone approaches the character as a "Black Character" (which just baffles me that this expression even exists) then of course they will see anything as a by-product of the character's race. I do agree that Original Team Arrow being central would have been preferable. I also understand why the seemingly increased importance of Laurel would be distressing, I mean she just has been an incredibly inconsistently written character and it feels like there is a problem of connection between KC and the entire IMO. It seems a lot pf people don't like Laurel which as aforementioned is unsurprising since she has shown few attractive traits as a written character and as "person" to root for / empathise with. We are all in full speculation mode, the premiere is not too far away and promotional posters give an idea of who will be "important" in the upcoming season so I feel it's natural to worry about the characters you like/dislike. Whether you like/dislike Laurel/KC most people would agree that the writers have made a mess of things with her character. The problem gets bigger when it feels like they try to give her attributes of other characters to make her more popular. With regards to KC's tweet while I feel for her being harrased by people who "hate on" her, the woman consistently makes blunders on a public forum (be it online or in person). Also a lot of the frustration about her character comes from her interpretation so while it's inappropriate venting and hatred thrown at her, it's not necessarily just unfounded dislike, like people being mad at SA's wife for being his wife *eyeroll*. Which means that her tweets have to be more careful than others'. Honestly I think someone needs to sit that woman down and give her directives about how to handle her public image. Also I take slight offense at people saying that anyone who doesn't like Laurel/KC is just some Olicity nut pissed at her for being in the way. The best Lauriver killers in the show are Laurel and Oliver themselves. I am not the shipping type and only thought that if Oliver must always be in some kind of romantic storyline, he and Felicity are the least fucked up and I genuinely enjoy seeing them interact so why not? And that was only after Season 2 and the Barry episodes. OTOH I started having very little patience for Laurel after 1/3 of season 1 episodes on Netflix. She was just all over the place. Outside of her Arrow related cringeworthiness I actually like KC so that actually made me more critical of Laurel because I was expecting a better performance from her and felt her character was handled poorly. Anyhoo... Seems most people have closed the subject anyway but I am late to the party and wanted to say my piece. Hope that wasn't too annoying.

I think someone might have already shared this but just in case I thought I should put it up there. Behind the Scenes Season 9 with the fan on set. Hilarious!

I think that's where the intense name saying comes from. The many times he says "Felicity" in the show is seriously adorable. I love all the intonations as well. He really likes the character.

http://www.fox.com/watch/319874627632?cmp=user_post This looks pretty interesting not necessarily news but more insight on new characters. It looks like they have an established plan (which is good). Although I am iffy about a time jump.

@foreverevolving, I'm glad you appreciated my observations. @Wingster55, I guess I did slag off the writing a bit. There are parts that were well written but I felt like their "quality" was due to it being dependent on the emotional scope of Oliver. Like wrt not seeing that Oliver needs space and has to be delt with differently from before, what strikes me is that if he had played the part of "the changed man" after that experience she might have given him more space. Instead he tried to pretend that he was "Good old Ollie" so obviously there is a disconnect that would confuse and anger her. She has him back but not really. He doesn't trust her enough to let his walls down and thinks her stupid enough not to see through the facade. His whole "be Ollie" plan is based on the idea that Ollie is who his loved ones want him to be so they will see that if he plays the part well enough. He underestimates them by thinking that they wouldn't accept his changes. They did write her as a real person though so that's a good thing and she was a lot less cardboard print out of the heiress already by the end of Season 1. She rang true because I know someone who was almost exactly in her situation and her behavious was very close to Thea's. We were in a boarding school which always exacerbates everyone's bad qualities because you are never alone so there is little time for self-introspection and everyone is on top of ecah other. There were 2 girls with absent parents and they were at opposite ends of the spectrum. Girl 1 was very organised and took on more responsability than she needed to whereas Girl 2 was completely a brat, at least on the surface. They did both had issues with letting people in. Girl 1 had a super tight circle of friends with little to no interaction with people outside said group and Girl 2 had a lot of mock friends but nothing deep and it was like they didn't really know each other , plus they wasted no time in being mean to her whenever they felt like it while still hanging out with her (seriously I will never get this kind of dynamic). The funny thing is when I got closer to Girl 2, gave her the opportunity to be more than just a brat, she turned out to be really fun, nice and helpful. She was actually a bit of fresh air compared to some of the pompous arses around us. When I made it clear that I thought that her behaviour was not acceptable (to her face) and told her that she can relax and joke without being mean or saying biting and hurtful things, she completely changed. My impression is that before Oliver urged their mother to be more active in restraining Thea from bad behaviour probably no one ever told her when she was being "a bit not good". You can't correct something if no one tells you that it's wrong. SInce people let it slide she probably inferred that anything she says doesn't matter anyway, she's not even important enough to actually hurt them. She must have thought that Moira emerging from her depression was impossible but then Walter made it happen so her deduction was "I wasn't enough so I don't really matter". The one thing I know was different in these cases though was that Girl 1 knew that her parents were not able to be there. So while there was geographic separation, emotionally she still more secure than Girl 2 who had parents who were there physically but completely emotionally cut off. It would be hard for a child not to see this intentional abandonment. I feel that was the most deciding factor with Thea. ETA: Sorry this is long, I am a psych major and taking philosophy classes so I have my on swtich flipped right now.

To me this character was saved by the actress. Willa Holland added depth where there wasn't much initially and pushed the writers to reconsider the role she could be playing in the journey of Oliver from the Hood to the Arrow. Now she even has a journey on her own that can be independent from him and still interesting. They just wrote her pretty badly... There were missed opportunities, overuse of the whole "betrayed by those I trust" thing. The saddest part is that each time she was outraged was technically more valid then the previous time but the reaction was so familiar/repetitive that even when it's justified, it's easy to think "Oh, here she goes again...Baby Queen is mad at her family". I also agree that the tombstone confessions and urgings to open up to her were so badly handled. Obviously that was when the relationship between Oliver and Laurel was super duper important so they would've wanted to show him being "himself" with her first. The thing is that 1) it would have looked better for Oliver to let his family in, 2) her anger at him keeping his distance and outburst would've been better accepted if it produced the desired effect and 3) it would have raised the stakes emotionally about him keeping a secret. Strangely enough even when people pointed he was being a hypocrite WRT Moira lying to them I didn't see the big deal because it's almost like who they (Thea more so than Moira) see is not even real so it's more about keeping the illusion alive. It's a lot more heartwrenching when you know a character is hiding something from someone they trust implicitly and they're open with all the time. I honestly think that in the show she very rarely gets away with things with no consequences and her having so many negative identity forming experiences is interesting to me. She probably raised herself up because it seems Moira went catatonic after the boat sank. That is always an interesting human developmental aspect to me because the effect is very often either the person is overly mature and controlled or they go in the other direction and just project all responsability on to others. Whichever direction the person goes through though, what seems to be a constant is the lack of trust in other people to take care of them and once their trust is broken it is super hard to get it back.

If it makes you feel better I felt the same way. I kind of randomly started wtaching it on Netflix thinking 'why not?' not really believing I would be into it. His acting is why I stayed. The subtle differences even in the pilot between wimpy kinda useless pre-Island Ollie and Oliver were so obvious even the body language and vocal range changed. He very obviouslly had a clear understanding of who both versions of this character were. You can always see thoughts brewing in his head and there is always a sligght vulnerability when interacting with those he loves that I just find endearing and interesting. I just wanted to give him a big old hug. I basically saw his "slip ups" with Diggle and Felicity as a cry for companionship. ETA : regarding his romantic relationships and choices I think the consensus (at least on the creative end of the show; EP+Writers) is that the boy needs a clue. SA himself has said that he wasn't ok with the Sarah hook up or at least he was confused as to why the direction had changed. I do think that there is a certain point where incestuous dating (as in everyone in the same group dating each other at some point or another) gets to be too much so dating 2 sisters one after the other after having cheated one one of them with the other (WTF, just writing this makes my head spin) is much more than I can handle. It's not a moral standpoint, it's just that there is a point where doing dumb shit makes his life complicated and I can't sympathise with his "struggle" because he made his own drama happen. I love when characters have issues and flaws but self-created drama? I have never subscribed to that. It actually is my top reason why I give up on a character/show. Also I think most people started to see it as sister swapping when there was that whole awkward "Oliver needs you" crap where it seems the show was trying to push Lauriver together again. I don't just blame Oliver by the way, I think all three of them needed to wake up and smell the coffee because that arrangement is weird. It basically sounded like when Oliver was with Sarah, Laurel had give her "approval" for it to be all good and after the break up Sarah was like "Your turn Sis!" which is weird. I said weird too many times so I am going to shut up now.

Totally stumbled on this by accident (was trying to find out more about the new BAU agent), I read something that could potentially be interesting...?

Actually, I have seen far more couples with the husband waaayyy hotter than the wife (as in she cleans up nice but nothing special there) than the opposite. They also show the husband being super in love with her in those cases as well. In fact, when I was younger, I always wished to be ugly so I would be loved for one thing that would not degrade with time (intelligence and personality as opposed to beauty). Anyways, I really like Joan Watson. I think she is consistent, reasonable and intelligent. I just really like her character, don't think about the source material and her being a woman doesn't colour my appreciation of the character. I often forget that it's an adaptation from ACD's books. In this case I think it's a good thing. It doesn't bother me and I am just glad they did not have her get together with Sherlock. NOW, let's talk about her with Mycroft.... Why, show? Why? It's not that bad but it just makes no sense to me. I get that Sherlock should not get a say in her relationships but it's awkward dating a friend's sibling in any situation. Although the funny childish reactions are entertaining to. It feels a little "my mum is getting back out there and I'm not ready". It also reminded me of House wanting to share custody of Wilson with his girlfriend.

WORD!!!!! Haha! I feel you... Luckily that's also when (hopefully) your body starts to remember the moves and takes less time to be operational. Always love to see a Karate person! :D You know you're watching too much Arrow when you classify your wardrobe choices along a pre-EA to post-EA dressiness linear axis. Seriously guys, it's bad. I am starting to think like she's a real person. I am WAY too vested in her shoe choices...

I love the title of this thread. I seriously loved seeing the Barrowman and Willa interaction and I am sooo looking forward to their scenes always toeing the line between creepy and sweet. I really liked his scenes in season 1 where he was polite and seemingly nice and yet on screen you could see there was something off and cold... It was great!!!

Fair enough, but it still irritates the shit out of me... Shipping/romantic relationships are the last things I think about in my entertainment so it's annoying sometimes when the story is somewhat derailed from its more interesting course because people do/don't want to see certain couples. I have seen people not like a character because they just assume that their presence is synonymous to a more romantic angle. Worse I have seen people proclaim that the only way they register a character getting "equal treatment" as other characters is giving them the same romantic circumstances. Unfortunately sometimes TPTB hear those loud opinions and make interesting characters boring (to me) or even dumb. ETA: that comment also underlines that fact that sometimes I find professional reviewers and magazines' writers say the dumbest things or obviously only look at female characters as romantic interests or dismiss them if their story doesn't involve romance... That just kills me because I am thinking "Seriously? You get payed to write this BS? Are you even trying?"

As a Computer Science and Psychology double major (sigh...I know), I would say that's unlikely. I am pretty sure ADHD would be one of the worst conditions to have as a computer scientist. Becasue ADHD means that task completion is extremely difficult if not almost impossible in its most acute forms. Coding, or even any IT related work in a company would be all about solving problems and it's almost always under the form of a project, with a specific task. So if someone can not focus on one thing for a long time especially as the process for CS projects is based on a lot of revisions and making sure that every single "," is where it is meant to be otherwise it won't work so I would be surprised. But then I don't specialise in ADHD so maybe I don't know enough about it but everything I learned points to this not being very likely. I did think it was very interesting that she chose to be an IT girl with her high IQ. While I don't necessarily think that means she should be running a company, I am surprised she didn't choose to work for some consulting firm where they have interesting IT projects to develop for another company. That seems a lot more interesting and challenging for a programmer, I feel. Those companies are also tpyically smaller and chances to be noticed for good work and promoted on more challenging and interesting projects are much higher. It almost feels like she chose to be in a large company where she could go incognito. It feels like before Oliver and Walter she was doing everything to stay under the radar. Also, it was interesting that her first instinct about being summoned upstairs is that she is being fired because if she thinks her abilities are top notch, then she might suspect that it's because of an external factor. Just wondering out loud here...

Is it "Sammy!" ?

LOLS... I cried of laughter. Especially the silent head shakes from PW and CD, and the sandwhich story. And the dance... priceless

H?

I'll have an "I" please.

Yay! I really like this actress so I am happy to see her back on my screen on a regular basis. I don't read the comics so she is pretty much a blank canvas to me and I will wait to get a feel of her once the show premieres. I was a little cofused after the trailer coming out, when people started talking about her having more chemistry with the male lead than his expected romantic entanglement or already painting her as the Felicity to their doomed Lauriver like vomfest. I didn't see any indications that she is going to be romantically involved with him or even has any kind of interest in him that way. It's hard enough for certain characters to not be around just to fluff up someone else's storyline and romantic angst but if on top of that people already project that onto her that's going to be a problem because in some way or another. Because her appreciation will be lower either because others will see her as a "threat to their chosen ship" or those who don't give a flying rat about shipping (raising my hand) will be annoyed to see the writers' heavy handed attempts to either confirm or deny her shipping possibilities. I think it's sad (well annoying actually) that when a female character is introduced in a show that one of the first things I hear about (from viewers/critics) is chemistry with a male character as if there is no other contribution they could possibly make. TANGENT ALERT (but still relevant, I promise): The reason I like Felicity on Arrow is not because I thought "Ooh, that's the one for Oliver", it was because she brought levity and her geeky, awkward nature was not all that was portrayed by EBR and she was just a pure breath of fresh air. The reason why I am ok with Ollicity is because seeing the two together usually brings out the better qualities (Oliver's more "human" side and Felicity's strength and wisdom) of both characters and I want to like them.

i don't think foster sibblings automatically makes it creepy because they don't always see each other as related. It could completely be more of a childhood friends dynamic. I imagine that the original set up will be Iris not even considering Barry as anything other than an almost-brother like childhood friends do even when they are a boy/girl pair. With the way GG talked about his situation vis-à-vis the crossover and Felicity, it sounds like he might have always seen her romantically while to Iris it might not even be a consideration. I see this more as a spiderman situation with Peter and Mary-Jane. People who have seen the pilot can add to that but to me a love triangle is when the common interest is aware there is a competition for their attention and are considering both options. I am sure it will come to that later but it doesn't strike me that this is initially the case here. I definitely think it's unfair to make her Laurel 2.0 without giving her and the show time to find its footing. Besides comic book canon is not that unshakeable as seen in Arrow. Because I am pretty sure this is the season where they try to give Laurel her last chance to see whether they give her the boot or not. Hopefully for her, even if people feel Barry is more romantically organic with an other person, the character can be liked on her own and they can keep her around without being here only for the OTP.