apinknightmare

It rubs me the wrong way too. It'd make sense that they'd bury her secretly because people knew she was alive and they wanted to hide her death, but if that was their concern then they wouldn't be putting her body in her old grave as if she didn't actually live publicly in Starling for months in the very recent past. It seems like the only reason they'd (the writers) keep news of her death from getting out publicly is so a: they could push some contrived drama about whether or not to tell Lance, or b: so they could bring her back at a later date (Lazarus Pit?) if they have to, although that's grasping at straws on my part because having a person return from the dead three times is too much, even on this ridiculous show. Crossing my fingers that this makes sense tomorrow.

Maybe the writer of the article took something in the interview out of context? That's the only thing I can think of. Sara was out in public way too much last season for them to just...write around it.

That double v he's got going on is the worst. He needs a woman in his life just to steer him clear of that again.

Taking this to Small Talk.

From the Spoilers thread: I don't know what Stephen makes, but that $30k per episode number was reported by TV Guide (not sure if that's considered a trustworthy source).

And she went to the hospital with Oliver after Slade infiltrated the foundry. Ugh.

The more I think about this the angrier I get. I'm going to try to reserve judgment until I see how it pans out, but we have the SCPD on the crime scene at the end of 2.13 (thank you @morrigan2575 - I had forgotten to mention that), the welcome back from the dead party in 2.14, Sara's general existence in Starling City, where she was staying with Laurel, who we all know has a well-known apartment location, and she was in the police department in the finale. So, they nearly threw her in a dumpster to kill her off, and now they're going to retcon her actual existence?

Yeah, I mean, isn't that how everyone came to know she was alive? The party happened in the very next episode.

It doesn't matter! Are we to believe that Lance didn't take care of the first hot second he could've? That not a single one of the people who showed up at that party blabbed about her being alive? That Dinah didn't tell a single one of her colleagues or friends back in Central City that her daughter came home after five years missing? That the blonde Channel 52 anchor who reports on everything Starling City didn't pick that story up? What does it matter if the world thinks she's dead - the only people who would wonder where she was have seen her alive! I hope there's some explanation for that in the show. I really do.

Some new (I think) information about the next ep from Laurel Brown: http://www.docbrowntv.com/arrow-season-3-spoilers-will-saras-death-affect-laurel-oliver-felicity/ And according to your show, Oliver threw her a back from the dead party. Keep track of your shit! I hate it when producers give tissue warnings. It usually means we're in for over-the-top melodramatic emotionally manipulative crap. Ugh, I'm feeling bitter today.

If it's a literal cliffhanger (like he said), someone's hanging off a cliff in that ep.

Who is the Molly in this situation?

Laurel and Sara probably floated to the foundry on a river of angsty, awful to watch tears.

Stop it, all of you! A girl can only take so much heartbreak in four days' time.

Yeah, she did just say Laurel Lance. I didn't even notice that because I mentally tuned out (sorry, Sara). Are they retconning her full name or something? ETA: Not that I think they ARE doing that, but if they were calling back to Tommy's line, why not add the Dinah?

He had a little on his mouth but not anywhere else. Unless he's remembering the soot as blood, because that was everywhere on him.

Emily did too, she filmed a movie called Brooklyn.

I'm not sure that this applies entirely, because Laurel has been on the show from the start, so it's not like she's a true imposter, and I think a lot of people who don't care for her (and are probably ignorant of comics canon) will get behind her for avenging her sister's death. While I think AK and co. willfully had their heads in the sand regarding the audience not liking Laurel because they were anxious for her to put on the fishnets (I know this isn't a representative audience, but of the 8 people I got to watch the show, 7 of them didn't care for Laurel, and none of them even knew that she was supposed to become BC), I wouldn't be surprised if once she does, a lot of the general audience comes around. Not saying it will happen, but I think it's possible (and, IMO, likely).

Haha, well that would explain the reaction.

I'll end it with this comment, because I'm honestly not disagreeing with you. Like I wrote, I think it's conceivable that she could fight (she's going to a boxer for training, not a martial artist), not be a master, not be proficient in martial arts. I just think it's realistic that she would not be great at fighting, but just be able to hold her own in a fight. But like I also wrote, I don't think the show is going to go that way. I think they'll have her be prodigy level good. Unbelievably (literally) good.

It almost sounded like "but where am I gonna go with it?" or "(something) gonna go with it."

Well, if that's the case then I'm glad she took the time to leave Oliver with that super important bit of wisdom regarding needing people who don't wear masks in their lives the first time she saw him, haha.

Well, maybe it was just that one that I've multiplied out into other scenarios in my memory, that's why I wrote that I could be mistaken, which I obviously am. As you can tell, I'm highly invested in her character!

If they tell us that's her story, that is her story. That's why I wrote that the writing and acting has ultimately failed the character they're trying to sell - because her story is sympathetic on paper, but she herself isn't sympathetic to the sizable portion of the audience who is rejecting her. I remember her holding her own fairly well on a few occasions in season 1, but I could be mistaken. I'm not saying she could take out a gang of assassins or even ONE assassin, but they've laid the groundwork for a low-level skill set that could be built upon. The damseling got fairly bad in the second season but that goes back to my point of writing failures for Laurel. And you're right, learning to fight for survival is different than learning in a classroom gym, but if you can throw a punch, you can throw a punch. If you can dodge a punch, you can dodge a punch. If you can evade an attacker, you can evade an attacker - it doesn't matter how you learned it or how long it took you to learn it. There's basic competence, and then there's nuance. Laurel can attain a level of basic competence - realistically, she probably wouldn't get very nuanced. I'm not saying that Laurel should be on the same level as Oliver, Sara, or even Roy. All I'm saying is that there is a believable route to her being a semi-competent, somewhat limited fighter if they choose to take it. I personally don't think they will. Like I wrote in my original post - I think she'll be the Mary Sue of vigilantes. We've already been spoiled that so...meh. My main point in my original post wasn't really about the fighting, it was more about how she doesn't need to have suffered like Oliver and Sara to be a vigilante, she needs to have the right motivation to do it, and she doesn't.

I think it's easier to be sympathetic to Laurel's story than it is to be sympathetic to Laurel the person. The bones are there for a compelling character, but writing and playing residual anger at people who have been through hell takes nuance and skill at a level that hasn't been shown in the writing or the acting IMO. But yeah, it's just my personal opinion that no, she wouldn't become a world-class fighter or martial artist, and that she wouldn't be on Oliver or Sara's level, but I don't think it's unreasonable to get to a place where she's able to hold her own in a fight. I think the show is going to have her be Sara 2.0, but I'm just hoping they don't do that.