apinknightmare

So, if Oliver had heard Felicity out and then still gone and done what he felt like he needed to do in that moment, her sleeping with Ray would've still been his fault? Because what you're advocating for here isn't him considering her opinion, it's doing what she wants him to. Seems like that's a lot of what the issue is here, that he's not doing what she wants him to?

I wouldn't be surprised if Ra's Ollie Ghul lasts until next season, but I think he's talking about literal blowing up in terms of the foundry, like you said. And the identity issue and probably also the fact that the Lazarus Pit is now canon on the show. I don't think it's anything to worry about or freak out over yet.

No, she went to Ray because she was concerned about his well being and told him she was going to make him eat and take a shower and sleep, and then once he did that she'd give him the password he needed to get back into his server. She went back there to give him the password, which she would've done regardless of whether or not Oliver and Diggle let her in on their conversation. Was she hurt? Yeah, probably. Did she do what she did because of that hurt? Maybe. She'd kissed him before, she was obviously attracted to him, so it's not like it might not have happened anyway. But what Felicity chooses to do is on Felicity, not Oliver. Oliver has a right to say that he doesn't want to be in a relationship with Felicity at any time, regardless of how he feels about her. If he loves her, wouldn't he want what's best for her? Wouldn't he want her to be happy? And if he doesn't think he can be himself or be in a relationship, then how is he that person? How can he make her happy? To me, no one should commit until they're fully ready to commit, because otherwise you're just delaying the heartbreak. If she's got to convince him to be in a relationship, then the thing is doomed anyway, and Felicity's smart enough to know that. Listening to what a friend has to say does not equal deferring to their opinion, and not deferring to their opinion doesn't mean you don't value their friendship. And it was easier for Oliver go relent to Diggle, because Diggle wasn't steadfastly against him going in the first place - Felicity was.

She was a character in Firestorm comics.

I don't understand - how is one party declining to be in a relationship with another one making their decisions for them? I have a right not to be in a relationship with someone I love if I don't think I can - the reasons are my own to understand and live with, and not up for debate. And who would want to be with someone who didn't want to or think they could be with them? The withholding of friendship I get being upset over, even though I don't think he did it so much because he couldn't be with her, but because a part of him knew she was right in her objections to what he was doing and he didn't want to listen to that part or was afraid of not being able to do what he thought he needed to do if he listened to her reasoning. Which, yes...it's stupid. But it's not malicious or something he needs to be punished for. No, she ended up in Ray's bed because she wanted to be there. Let's not take her agency away from her. She was feeling hurt and yeah, that might've been how she chose to deal with those feelings, but Felicity isn't doing a damn thing that she doesn't want to do, and Oliver cannot be held accountable for that.

Honestly, I think the only thing Oliver would really have to prove to Felicity would come after they start dating, because I could see her rightfully being a little skittish at the possibility of him trying to break things off to protect her if/when something bad happened. After the first time something blew up and he didn't go running though, I imagine she'd feel pretty secure though.

Yeah, maybe it's not so much that he's sidelined because he's arrested, but maybe it's not safe for him to go out because he's wanted. But Felicity going to Central City would be weird in that time frame, but what can they do? It's a network thing.

You're not...that was my point (and it did seem like you might've been confused about who she was, so sorry about that). Personally I don't think they spent much time at all on the romantic aspect of Ray and Felicity at all. Most of it was professional/work-related apart from one kiss and the one scene where he told her he cared about her to the point of changing his mission from being about Anna to being about her. Then they had sex in 3x15 - nothing built up to that because I think it's supposed to be a rebound thing/distraction for both of them. They themselves haven't even defined it.

We don't even know for sure that Oliver is getting arrested though. That pic posted of him standing in front of bars was before we knew there was a cell in the foundry.

So that is his creepy resting face is what you're saying? Hahaha

I don't know that it was what she said to him so much as how she said it. Her voice was very soft, and there was an emotional undercurrent there that wouldn't have been back in season two.

Anna was Ray's fiancee, the one he felt guilt-ridden over kissing Felicity since he thought she was the last one he'd ever kiss. And we can't meet her. She's dead. The reason this seems like an inconsequential relationship is because it is. His sole purpose on this show was to be spun off into another one with the added bonus of acting as a ship stall. They couldn't be bothered investing any time in it because it was never going to be a thing anyway - it was always intended to be a "rebound" of sorts. Ray was never going to get a legit romance on another show when they wanted to give him a show of his own.

Her crisis was whether or not she was more than just "Oliver Queen's crush object." The answer is yes! She's also Ray's too. I guess if you stretch you can say she has found an identity outside of working for the Arrow and being around Oliver all the time, but that identity is also clouded in Ray's feelings for/about her, so it's crap.

I thought it would at least be bad enough to legit warrant a visit from mom because of worry, but...how worried can Felicity be? He isn't hooked up to anything other than an IV and a pulse monitor. I mean, damn, she watched Oliver be brought back to life after Barry shot RAT POISON into him and barely batted an eye. She must think Ray has a low tolerance for pain, ahaha. Maybe this is after a trip to the ICU or something, IDK. I guess since this injury is supposed to be sustained in an attack on the mayor's office, maybe Donna hears about it on the news and since she knows Felicity and Ray are "a something," she comes and gives her support without Felicity knowing beforehand?

In those stills of Mama Smoak posted for 3x18, Ray doesn't look all that injured? He's even smiling as the doctor checks him out - unless that's just his creepy resting face.

I figured it was just there to remind the audience that the show hasn't forgotten she's still not there yet and that the characters realize it as well, and to set up Nyssa offering to train her later in the ep.

I would be really surprised if Laurel's death was the impetus for Oliver turning himself over to Ra's for use of the Lazarus Pit, and it's not because I think that Oliver doesn't care about her or love her enough to give himself up to save her life. He's lost so many people I absolutely believe he would do that. But if going after/killing people Oliver loves is Ra's way of punishing him/getting him to submit (which of course it will), then there really isn't anything in the narrative this season to suggest that Laurel would be the key to doing any of that. Thea or Felicity or Diggle would. Maybe Roy, but I'm not so sure. If it is for some reason Laurel, they really need to be careful about how they have her "die." She needs training, it's been mentioned several times, so if she gets mortally injured while she's out Black Canarying after being told by more experienced fighters that she needs to learn more, there could be some issues there. And if she's just the victim of some accident or blowback from a targeted attack (like standing too close to an explosion or something of the like), the "randomness" of it takes some of the emotional punch out of Oliver turning himself in to save her. I don't think it'll be her, honestly. I think she's missing from most of the shots because she doesn't go with them to Nanda Parbat - maybe she stays in town with Ray to keep things "safe," and they just don't show much of SC in 3x20. It would make some sense, since as of now Laurel's still carrying her suit around in a briefcase, so it doesn't seem like she could be tied to whatever gets found in the lair when SCPD raids it, and even though she's been caught on camera working with the Arrow, what she could be charged with is probably minimal compared to the others. And she's Quentin's daughter so he'd probably try to keep her out of the fray. Ray's probably in the clear since he gives money to the SCPD. Or something, because it probably won't pan out this way, haha.

Based on BTS photos, seems like Diggle, Felicity, Thea, and Malcolm go with him to Nanda Parbat. Maybe Laurel, but it's possible she stays behind in Starling City and just sees them off at the airport.

I love it when anyone on this show is tranqued - it's one of my favorite things. And look at it this way - it's a testament to her badassery that she had to be chemically subdued in order for someone to get a handle on her!

Laurel wasn't talking about the dinner with Sara - she was talking about Quentin's general cycle of working through his anger with her. Cold shoulder ---> blowing up ----> working it out over a dinner that Laurel makes him go to. That dinner with Sara wasn't something she hosted to get Quentin to forgive her for something, it was something Quentin convinced Laurel to do because he was hoping to get back together with Dinah. It was nice of her to bring him dinner, but her forgiveness entitlement is not a good look. I get that she wants/needs it since Quentin is all she has left (except for those rare occasions when this show remembers that she actually has a mother too), so there's understandable anxiousness there since in her mind she was doing what she did to protect him (and yes, I know this is arguable from a narrative perspective, but that was always Laurel's reasoning). But she's had months to work through her grief and didn't do such a good job of it at first, so she needs to give the man some time and stop expecting him to work within her timeframe.

It depends on what's happening in 3x21. Given the title of the episode, it seems like Oliver's joining the League for some reason. So yeah, that probably isn't good by virtue of the fact that Oliver's going in with some assassins, so it might not specifically have anything to do with Oliver and Felicity as a couple. Although it could, given Ra's knows about Felicity and will probably go after her at some point.

She was friendly enough when she brought drinks to the table Felicity, Roy and Cisco were sitting at in 3x08. I only remember her being in the lair once with Felicity and that was when Laurel was hallucinating or whatever. Not a good time for a chat. Was there another time? I can't remember.

I mean...unless the stills were deliberately misleading, they do sit next to each other at the wedding. Can Thea not talk or something? is there some reason they'd sit next to each other and not talk? Unless the wedding is a dream or some weird shit like that. It is a weird answer though.

I figured the answer was yes and yes and he's just being dodgy. Thea and Felicity sit next to each other at Digg's wedding, and I imagine Thea will pick up on Oliver giving Felicity agonized heart eyes.

I think Ray's a distraction for her the way the she is for him. So I think it all is very superficial, especially if it turns out that he never did tell her that his suit works.