WearyTraveler

As Warden of the North, Roose was the Lord of Winterfell, which is the seat that goes with the title. No way Roose would make the Dreadfort his permanent seat as Warden, that's a smaller castle and WF is the symbol of having the power and control of the North. Also, no way he would give the bigger title to his son and keep the smaller title (Lord of the Dreadfort) for himself. Ramsey held WF until Roose got back because you can't leave the seat of the Warden unguarded, lest some other Lord tries to take it. Basically, as Roose's legitimized son (and heir), Ramsay was left in charge of protecting the family seat, just like Bran was left in charge while Robb was fighting his war. Bran didn't take his father's bedroom, and neither would have Ramsay taken Roose's.

There are no season 2 episode threads!

I don't understand how people can even think that Robert is Jon's father. Is it only because Jon has dark hair? Because nothing in the show has even hinted at that possibility. I met a non reader a while ago that told me he thought Jon was Robert's son, I asked him three questions: 1) Do you think Robert loved Lyana? "Yes" 2) Then, why would Ned hide the truth about Jon's parents from Robert? "....... (no answer)" 3) Wouldn't Robert love a son given to him by the woman he loved? "....... (no answer)" "....... OH!!!!" "He's Rhaegar's son!!!!" ME (not wanting to completely spoil the guy): Maybe

Sooo, can we talk about the finale of season 2 yet? I'm dying over here!

I should have quoted the posts I was replying to, so my intent would be clearer. I know all of what you're saying. The reason I talked about Coldhands was because someone made this comment: and I wanted to point out that the fact that show Benjen played a role similar to book Coldhands is not actually a book spoiler because Martin shot that theory down even before the book where Coldhands first appears was published.

Is that the age the actors are now or the age they were when they started?

People gossip, and half the time the nobles don't know the half of it, which is why Varys has little birds and disguises himself and LF has brothels and other assorted spies. Knowledge is power, after all. When the nobles find out that the gossip is against them, then they manipulate the circumstances to change all that (see a play called "The Booldy Hand", currently showing around Braavos). LF could have just gone to the inn and heard te gossip. Or he could have walked around and casually talked to the servants of the Lords competing in the tournament and found out quite a lot ("oh yeah, his grace is totally smitten with that woman; he talks about her all the time", "my Lady Ellaria was very angry, she swore she would poison the she-wolf", and so on). All he would need is some unassuming clothes and some charm and cunning. All of which he can have. It takes time to call the banners, have them come to you, go to other houses and ask them to call their banners, and then march your ass down all the way to KL, fighting Targaryen loyalists along the way. During his rebellion, Robert and his army had to fight many battles, and for some of them they were separated (e.g. the Tullys had not joined them yet), he was wounded a couple of times and protected by the smallfolk, there was the battle of the bells, and the stepstones, and a bunch of others. Robert was legendary, but yes, it took a long time to conquer the throne.

I always view pain and suffering as something relative. The level of hurt largely depends on the person being hurt, his/her experiences and context. A very simple example: If I take a pin and quickly stick you with it (in and out, not very deep), you will feel the prick, you might bleed a little, and you might be angry for a bit, or you might punch me in revenge, but you wouldn't be traumatized by it. Lets pretend I have a 4 year old child who trusts me and loves me. If I were to do the same to him without warning or explanation, he will have the same physical reactions, but he might also feel betrayed, by his own mother, no less, and this simple prick could be a somewhat traumatic experience. With that in mind, while I compare and contrast the experiences of all the characters, I try to stay away from qualifying who's had it worst (or even best). It's almost impossible to measure.

To be clear, I don't want them to involve LF. I just think that the way the actor has played the scenes concerning Lyanna has been coy, and I take into account that every time there was a TOJ flashback this season, they felt the need to remind us of LF and Sansa's scene in the crypt. For TV, those things are kind of anvils falling from the sky. And it wouldn't be the first time the show cut corners (see Tyrion telling Dany that Jaimie told him about the wildfire). So, while I'm hoping that it's all misdirection and AG has been playing LF coy because LF is always supposed to look like he knows more than he's letting on, I wouldn't be surprised if LF is one of the people who knows and can confirm Jon's parentage on the show.

Not necessarily. We saw that woman in the room with Ned, Lyanna and baby Jon (the show might call her Wylla, or not; so far she's unnamed). She could have met LF later in life and told him.

I think LF would relish a Ned v. Robert War, but that wouldn't necessarily bring him closer to the throne. Not until much later, when he had climbed up the ladder enough. The thing is, I think TV LF knows, but book LF doesn't. So, for the TV we have scenes with LF and Sansa in front of Lyanna's grave, and LF acts all coy about it, a scene that has twice popped up in the "previously on.." segment. That and other, albeit less conspicuous, anvils that have been dropped throughout lead me to believe that TV LF knows but has kept his trap shut. And the show will explain it (or we will have to resort to fanwank it) as LF waiting for the right opportunity to make use of that information. That is, a set of circumstances when such a revelation would bring the maximum benefit to Littlefinger, not just amuse him.

During the TOJ scene in the finale, we saw a woman was in the room with Lyanna, Ned and baby Jon. I'm thinking the show might have her character come back in present time or have LF mention her. She could have been the one to tell LF all about baby Jon. He could have kept that knowledge to himself, preferring to have Cat thinking that Ned cheated on her and sitting on the information to use when it most suited him, if it ever suited him. LF took pleasure in reminding everyone that Ned had a bastard, even Ned himself. It is possible that he somehow knows.

1) Yeah, they might be toast when all is said and done. 2) True, I remember thinking that it was nice that she wasn't afraid all the time. 3) Soooooooooooooooooooooooo much!!!! 4) That was very sweet. I also liked that there was a girl named Arya, sometimes. In Arya chapters we also see her thinking of Sansa with none of the animosity that existed between them before Ned died. This is why I never bought into the theories that Sansa and Arya are heading for some kind of confrontation where Arya will kills her. 5) I think that was the answer they gave Sansa, not their real plan. I think that ever since Olenna found out that Joffrey was a monster, she decided he had to die and that she had been looking into how to accomplish that. It had to be after the wedding, though, so Marge could still be Queen. _______________________ This chapter reminded me of one of the reasons I got frustrated with the character at times. On the one hand she thinks that Margaery's cousins are children because they don't know as much as she does. Her thoughts in that passage reflect her learning, her becoming wiser from all she has experienced. She seems to be more mature and getting smarter. On the other hand, the chapter ends with her frivolous thoughts about how she can't wait to try on a new dress that Cersei (CERSEI!!!!) is giving her. GAAAAAAAAHHHH!!! Haven't you learned that nothing good ever comes from Cersei, Sansa? I mean, I can see her getting fond of he Tyrells and trusting them because they have given her no reason whatsoever to think they have any intention to cause her harm. She told them what a psycho Joffrey is and they have kept her secret. But Cersei?! The woman who ordered Lady killed? The woman who abandoned her and everyone else when she thought the city was lost? Why does Sansa trusts her again and again? It's baffling!

I may be remembering wrong, but I think I read an interview with GRRM a while back where he mentioned he might have to split book 7 in 2. What I do remember clearly is that GRRM did shoot down the theory that Benjen was Coldhands. A page with notes from his editor and Martin's responses to the notes was made public. In one of the notes the editor asks if Coldhands is Benjen and Martin answers with a dry NO! D&D might have come up with the sept burning by themselves, but I wouldn't rule it out of the books. We know that there are caches of wildfire still stashed all over the city because the only people who knew the exact location were Aerys and his last Hand (a pyromancer). We also know that Cersei burned the Tower of the Hand using Wildfire and she was quite pleased with herself there, drinking in the flames with gusto. It's not hard to see how she could end up burning down KL in the books. Maybe Martin didn't specifically tell D&D about it, but the hints are there for the readers to put two and two together.

Personally, I think mass murder is a sign that someone is not all there. In our world we make the distinction between insane and legally insane; if I were judging Cersei's actions by our standards, I'd say she's a sociopath, but one legally sane to stand trial. 1) The knowledge as to the power of the Wall, and even its purpose has been lost. Up until the first wights attacked Mormont, everyone in the Night's Watch thought that the Wall was there to protect the realm from Wildlings, when, in truth, it was erected with magic and physical might, to keep the WW at bay. I don't think the men of the NW, much less the rest of the realm, even know that the Wall was built with magic spells to prevent the Walkers from coming through. Actually, since Mormont was attacked south of the Wall (most likely because it was the men of the NW themselves who carried the bodies through - remember Sam had to go down to open the weirwood gate for Bran), they have no reason to think that the Walkers can't also come through. 2) Even if someone remembered, or found out about it (let's say Sam discovers some old book in that big ass library in the Citadel that explains it), the Wall has never been tested. It was built after the Walkers were defeated by Azor Ahai the first time, so, no one knows if the magic is enough to hold them back. And no one knows how many Walkers are coming or if they have gotten stronger with the centuries, or if the same magic that returned to the world and allowed Dany to hatch her dragons (or the magic the dragons brought when they hatched, if you believe that theory) has made the Walkers strong enough to bring the Wall down. 3) The Wall is not infallible, and the Wildlings know it. On their march toward the Wall, they were desperately looking for the horn of Joramun, which is said to have the ability to bring the Wall down. Most Wildlings think it's some grand horn hidden somewhere, some readers believe it could be the little horn Jon found with the dragonglass weapons, which he gave to Sam who is still carrying it around. Whatever the case, the point still remains that there's magic that is believed to be strong enough to bring the Wall down, and there's a risk the Walkers could find and harness such magic. This.

The King in the North!!!!!!

Tough call. Many have said hat Ghost would have died in the battle, but I'm not so sure. After all, Grey Wind fought alongside Robb in several battles and he was fine. That said, the way D&D seem to hate the direwolves, I'm kind of happy Ghost wasn't there. Now, every time I see him on the show I'll be wondering if he's going to bite it next :-S

Ok, I have to ask as I've seen this reference before, where is it coming from? Is there anything in the text that suggests this or is it some crazy theory that people make fun of?

I believe they thought Robert could come back from his hunt any minute now

LOL! No, it's a modern take on Faustus. It had jokes, a dance number, magic tricks, and Kit even smiled a few times! There is some symbolism and metaphors I'm sure we are meant to grasp as an audience from the choices in costume and set. It was entertaining and Kit was very good in the role, and very gracious with fans afterward, which must not be very easy as this was his second performance of the day and the material and stage direction is intense. I imagine he must have been bone tired by the time he finally came out of the theatre.

The music was actually quite good, a mix of pop, classical and rock. At the beginning of the second act, the actress playing Mephistopeles did a short cover of Meatloaf's Bat out of Hell, and she was excellent.

There was a full frontal male (not Kit) and a full frontal female. Most actors spent the entire time on stage in their underwear. Kit, most of the second act, at the end of which we got to see his partial behind, so, I'd say it was about equal.

It was vital to plot development, but had it been gratuitous, I wouldn't have complained! I think we should petition D&D to make battles more realistic and have all that armor fall to pieces during the fights ;). The Battle of the Bastards would have been greatly improved, I'm thinking! I have video evidence of my presence there, BTW!

So, to lighten up the mood in here, guess what? I went to see Kit Harington in Dr. Faustus at the Duke of York Theatre. I saw Jon Snow's ass and you didn't! :-P