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For me, this really depends on the context and the point in the game at which it happens. Hali and Jenn, if I recall, did it privately and away from others. Jenna and Heidi did it for some kind of reward. Hatch did it both during a challenge and in much the same way as Shirin and Max. What really weirded me out about it was that it was during the first few days of the game, out and amongst strangers (recall that scene where Tyler is just perplexed as she's standing right beside him). That to me is crazy. Are we allowed to say "crazy" or is that a slur of some kind? I wouldn't try to spin anything Will or Dan has said, nor would I defend them. Both said things which were wholly uncalled for. Shirin's personal edit has been both positive and negative, fair play to the editors, but the "story" of these past few episodes has been to take a verbal altercation between two players (along with Shirin calling out the bystanders) and to turn it into a PSA about "domestic violence". I know I'll be disagreed with here but for me violence still requires some kind of physical act or threat. I don't recall her saying in-game that anyone had been physically abusive towards her, but I could be wrong about that. I know she has said as much since Wednesday. I'm guessing that Will used that to attack her because she has mentioned it before. A lot. She strikes me as somebody who has internalized the negative things which have happened to her to such a degree that they have become a huge part of her identity, and who not only feeds off but actively requires the sympathy of others to an unhealthy degree.

I don't know, I guess I'm just used to not believing the edit, at least insofar as they are prone to telling "big stories" manufactured out of specific incidents. In addition to the "villains" of this season referring to Shirin as somewhat unhinged, we also have countless in-game comments from people like Carolyn, Jenn, and Hali which are unambiguously negative towards her. But the "story" is that she is a poor victim beset upon by these big bad villains. I find Dan to be repulsive - he's a bad liar, he's completely insincere, and he looks like he smells like a garbage truck. But the editors aren't trying to feed us a line about how he's something he's not. Like them or not, I think I'll go ahead and trust the majority opinion. This is a woman who paraded around bottomless during the first week of the game and called it strategic. She's nuts.

Having watched this show forever, this Shirin situation strikes me more as the editors trying to create a narrative out of a dull season / group of people. A solid number of these people call Shirin crazy even months later, and she comes off as crazy. I really don't believe much of what she says at all. I think she wildly exaggerates. Yet the editing tells us a story, always a story. Will made me feel sorry for Shirin and his comments went way too far, but I was right back to being irritated this week. This is really one of those "I wish everyone could lose" seasons.

I am absolutely repulsed by Hayley. Not because she is mean, or particularly offensive, or the usual reality tv traits. Every bit of between-the-lines editing shows Blair as being just exasperated with her, holding on for dear life, hoping she doesn't murder him in his sleep. Anybody who is of two minds, "well he's bad too" or "I hated him in the first leg" needs to just seriously sit down and analyze this for a second. She is fucking crazy.

I loved this series. A definite slow burn, with a few irritating characters, but overall quite an achievement. Ben Mendelsohn especially was fantastic. Just wanted to say that, for me, the true villain of the piece was Robert Rayburn. His actions set virtually everything in motion. Had he been a good father to his son, to support him in such a traumatic moment (of what was obviously an accident) instead of beating him and ostracizing him, who knows what Danny might have made of himself, or what path he might have taken in life. The over-the-top deification of such a clearly flawed man bugged me from the outset and only continued as the story went on. The late revelation that Sissy Spacek's character was in on the whole deception wasn't really that surprising, being just one more family member bent on protecting the lie. I guess they've left the door open for season 2 but I think the shelf life for this story is a short one. It was so good though that I'll definitely give it the benefit of the doubt should it continue.

A quiet episode to end the season is not the end of the world. For the first time I actually appreciated what Carrie and Quinn could mean for each other but him leaving was as obvious as it gets. This show continues again and again to revisit the forced romance stories but I can see here how Quinn and Carrie could actually be good for each other; they're both fucked up and each understands the other. I liked season 4 quite a bit. Without the giant shackled weight of Brody and his dumb family the show has limitless possibilities. I liked where they went in S4 and I'm optimistic about where they'll go in the future.

Well far be it from me to paint all identical twins with the same brush, but I'm sure 95% of the bickering can be put down to TAR stresses and editing. Check out their social media and you'll find they seem to be your typical "attached at the hip" brand of identical twins. The two sets I've known have been a lot like that. And if you've ever seen a Survivor "family visit" episode you'll find that you don't have to be an identical twin to fall utterly to pieces at the prospect of being away from your girlfriend/boyfriend/mom/aunt/dog for a whole 30-odd days. Its a raaaaaaaace!

While I doubt they would have made it this far together like Jon/Jaclyn or Missy/Baylor, absolutely nothing about Natalie/Nadiya strikes me as "toxic". Have you ever met identical twins? I have. Their relationship seems totally typical to me.

I completely agree. I've been a huge fan of theirs since day one on TAR and I'm glad, if a little righteous, that people seem to have largely changed their opinions. On the thread for episode one, I felt that the vitriol directed at Nadiya was completely uncalled for, and its one of the reasons I rarely participate in internet discussions anymore. One statement in isolation was enough to condemn somebody who I had always found to be delightful and entertaining, and even former survivors took to twitter to spout their holier-than-thou judgments (i.e. Fishbach and the absolutely vile Eliza). I hope Nat has shown the side of the twinnies I always knew was there - they're funny, gorgeous, and above all they are gamers who came to play, unlike the majority of this season's cast.

No time to go into any nuanced analysis, but for me this was one of the best episodes of the entire series. Just fantastic. I just wish we didn't lose Farah, a lot of wasted character potential there. This season has been up and down in its level of utter unbelievability but I was nothing if not entertained tonight.

Best: Michel Lorelai Luke Paris Worst: Jess Dean Liz Babette (I often wonder whether Babette was written as having some sort of brain damage) Taylor Francie April Best pairs/relationships: Lorelai/Rory Luke/Jess Paris/Rory Lorelai/Emily Richard/Rory

That was just unbelievable. Yes Aayan, this "bureau chief" from the London paper is just so enamored with you, she couldn't possibly be playing you. Even the horniest of young men wouldn't have bought that, and I sure didn't. STUPID show. Agreed. But this is The Carrie Show, isn't it.

1. Terri should totally have got credit for simple syrup. 2. Brendan is both really smart and a complete idiot.

Nope I think she just cut his hands free in order to provoke him, I guess? It was all a little weird. I thought she wouldn't have wasted any time butchering him. ETA: nice touch on the fingernails though.

They've done this challenge a bunch of times but this was the first time I saw people leading with their heads! I actually thought John Rocker was bleeding at one point, they hit so hard. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised with how hard people worked this time around, getting down low / center of gravity is no easy feat, but once established can provide for some nice upsets. Kelly impressed me big time by winning her rematch and, in turn, the challenge for her tribe. I get that some twin siblings live more or less regular sibling lives, but other twins spend their entire lives together. From what I know of Natalie and Nadiya, they are of the latter type. I love them especially because of their TAR history, and I felt awful for them both when Nadiya was eliminated because I knew just how bad that would be for both of them. Having known more than one set of identical twins personally, that bond is really, really strong. I don't think the reaction was over the top, especially considering some of the "I haven't seen my dad/mom/son/daughter/boyfriend/wife for three weeks, let me cry about it at length for half an hour" reactions we get on this show (see every family visit episode ever).

Absolutely unbelievable of Hank to be pulling over that semi with false customs seals in the middle of the night while seriously injured with no backup. Even more unbelievable to have one driver with a gun transporting, what was it, 10 tons of drugs? CIA Buckley became near-omnipotent there at the end but was unsurprisingly dispatched by his colleagues -- too much blood for their tastes I suspect. Linder surviving was just preposterous but I'll give them a pass because I really enjoyed Eva's arc, despite the short amount of time the writers gave it, and I hope we've now seen the last of them. Everything wrapped up pretty neatly, but the ending could have done with an added scene or two. Why leave Eleanor's fate up in the air like that, given the show is on the bubble? Glad Daniel and Adriana got their story, they remain my favourite characters on the show (aside from Fausto). I really looked forward to this every week, it really is a quality show. I guess the numbers weren't quite there to make it a lock to return, but here's to hoping. One last thing: Am I crazy, or was the diner that Daniel and Adriana met the CIA woman in the same one from Sons of Anarchy last week where Juice and Chibs' scene was? I noticed immediately and was taken aback, it looked exactly the same.

Quite a lot of yelling at the TV tonight from me.. The welling music and tears at every opportunity just grates on me - family visit days were always confounding to me in the past, but it seems like they're going for that every night now. Even in recent non-BVW seasons they seem to be going for a lot of cheap emotional manipulation, with Probst digging his thumbs in every chance he gets. Felt bad for Natalie (huge Twinnie fan) as I would anybody but the music and questions were over the top, as usual. Baylor's display during the challenge with her mother was unbelievably bad. Her mother might has well have just jumped off given the amount of effort she put in once they resumed. And this during an immunity challenge. Several other people took knocks and didn't stop competing. The later stuff at tribal suggests she isn't well liked by her tribe, yet Josh still felt compelled to hold on to their alliance. That man has an eye for goats. As much as I prefer to judge people by their actions rather than their words, John Rocker can't be gone fast enough. Very little self-awareness or social grace, very little intelligence (picking himself for a ball-balancing challenge), believing Val had two idols, picking fights in the preview, just another terrible stunt-cast which ruins the integrity of the game. Not to mention the longer he sticks around the more scenes of group hand-wringing and pearl clutching we'll be subjected to from the editors. I generally hate the first five or six episodes of each season and this time around is no exception.

I was reading it then and I found it just as ridiculous as this. The actual people involved aren't offended, but us people on the internet are going to feel offended for them, because they obviously need us to do so. She made an assumption about a person based on a stereotype, something we all do (unless we are being woefully dishonest with ourselves). It was not a bad assumption, nor an altogether inaccurate one (the point Nadiya was making, I think, is that Josh could clearly relate to and work with both "sides" of an already gender-divided tribe). She was not making disparaging remarks about his physicality or his intellect, only that she was glad she felt she could work with him, probably because she is friends with gay people in her real life outside the game. The editing makes it sound ham-fisted but all the hatred she seems to be getting over it strikes me as massively uncalled for. And, of course, nobody complains when people make stereotypical assumptions about pro athletes, southern outdoorsmen, or thrice-divorced housewives do they? It's only gay people and other persecuted groups who require your sympathy.

Really upset that Nadiya is gone, I'm a huge fan of them and I really dont get the hate. They are fun, hilarious, entertaining and beautiful on top of it. I'll miss their dynamic but if Natalie can go far it will make for a great storyline. I'm curious if any actual gays here are offended by Nadiya's comments, or if it is just the oversensitive, overly paternalistic types who see offense everywhere and all the time? A quick look into their social media or past interviews shows clearly they are not bigots and are extremely well liked by past constestants on TAR such as the Beakmans and the Chippendales. But please, dont let that stop the stream of righteous indignation.

So disappointed that Miss Cleo was wrong.. I was looking forward to a long season of epic twinnie goodness. Here's to hoping Natalie goes far! I'll never understand the hate they get when so many boring, dull players get the love.

I considered watching this until I saw the awful shot-for-shot remade scenes in the trailer. I think the show might have worked if they had stamped some original thought on the story, setting, and theme. It was filmed in my home town, so I had added incentive, but no way will I be (re)watching it.

Twinnies! There is a God.. These two are the absolute best, and if we must have reality tv "stars" as cast members, I'm thrilled its them.