Ottis

Everything in your post I completely agree with. I'll just add about this specific observation, that Orville *did* have it right in season one. The humor masked the deficiencies in the straight scifi. The show was an homage to Star Trek, but had its own, unique perspective, with sometimes crude lines. It worked. I can only assume Seth's ego got the better of him, and in addition to casting himself as the lead, having his character be at the center of every important development, casting at least two of his girlfriends, going to Hulu and touting special effects and longer running times that are atrocious and padding, respectively, he *also* decided Orville would be "real scifi." And it isn't. I wonder if he knows?

It's both, IMO. The robot hatred trope is the writing, so is the lack of showing her using her supposed genius interspatial skills. But also, her line reading choices are flat and uninteresting. When they escape the planet and suddenly burst into the space battle, her line is, "Well that doesn't look good." And that is exactly what she says, with almost no voice inflection. Even a simple, "Well - THAT doesn't look good" (which in my head I hear Gordon saying it that way), with an emphasis on "THAT" (which would have empathized with the viewing audience, who are also suddenly confronted with the battle at the same time) would have been better acting. It's not her fault that she got the role, it is Seth's, but she needs to at least make it look like she is trying. And here is the kind of inconsistency Orville does 5 times an episode that means it is *not* good scifi. On the smaller shuttle, it seems to be OK if they stand up, no impact on them at all as the shuttle escapes the planet. But on the larger Orville, with what has to be inertial dampeners, Gordon does the "double helix maneuver" and Bortus almost throws up. Which is it, show? BTW, Gordon was told to do evasive maneuvers. Why does he have to ask permission to do one in the midst of the battle? Does he ask if he can turn left or right or do a 180 (as we saw)? It's a cheesy line to set up Bortus looking barfy, and it makes no logical sense.

The point of that poem, though, is that anything that believes it is more important than everything else - whether it is a single leader, or a political party, or a species, or a religious movement - ultimately all ends up in the same place, forgotten sand in the river of time. In other words, you ain't as important as you think you are. My issue with use of that poem, and it has been cited in many TV shows and movies, is that while in the fullness of time the self-important stuff ends and is forgotten, that over the next year, or 10 years, or 100 years, *some* of that stuff rules and tramples on other people and *is* important. So Ozy really only works in a specific use - when a movement claims it will last 1000 years, or is morally superior to anything else. Your passing religious uprisings, or tyrant leaders, it doesn't really work. I lost interest in the overly long 3 or 4 sections of Tey speaking, but I don't recall her saying her movement will last 1000 years, etc. But I could have missed it through inattention.

If there were one quibble, and only one, it would have to be Charley. And that she didn't die. But this was an extravaganza of quibbles. For a few brief seconds, like when Isaac came into the bar, or when Ed and #1 (I can never remember her character's name) giggled they were drunk after talking to the admirable, Orville shows flashes of what it was in season one. That mix of humor helps cover how bad the serious stuff is. The worst part is, I'm pretty sure Seth thinks this is good sci-fi, with incredible special effects. His blind spot is the size of a galaxy. Casting himself as lead, casting his girlfriends, he just doesn't see it. That chase scene in the planetary vehicle, before finding the cloaked shuttle? Looked like something from Tron ... the one in the 80s. Just awful. But, I guess when Teleya isn't stabbing her opponents in front of crowds, she does like to spy happily on the kid she hides. So it will be OK.

I am not a fan of Maggie. Mickey may have ended up screwing up part of her case, but he had a great cause, it was his grail AND the only reason it mattered was because *her* case rested on evidence that was screwed up or tampered with. She knew all that. She is supposed to be like him, by her own admission, but she clearly cares more about her own needs than morals. And on top of all that, she brought in her fed to arrest Soto on what is likely wispy evidence, just for spite, instead of taking the L. As I noted in the prior ep thread, was glad to see yet another twist for Elliott. Though I still don't know exactly why that happened. Still, it showed Lorna has good instincts - she was terrified of the shooter. I knew Holder was sneaky in her second scene, though I'm not sure why. Something about her delivery. I don't really understand how that scheme could have worked, but honestly, that's fine. Overall the series was easy to watch and I generally enjoyed it.

Opening scene wayyyyyy too long. And then the same scene (or more of it) is also too long the second time. And the flight to the alien city went on forever. This show struggles with pacing. They bragged about longer running times on Hulu, but they don’t know what to do with it. Ottis Jr. watched Orville for the first time, this episode. He said, “It looks like a fan film.” And it may just be me, but the special effects are looking more and more like a video game. I don't think they are as good as the show thinks they are. But I did love Isaac’s line as sheriff. And Seth is just not a good actor. I can’t get past that. Haven’t since season one. We laughed out loud at his look at the screen after Teleya’s speech. The Krill have deep fakes! Oh no! The way this show feels compelled to walk viewers through every step is maddening. The Krill have deep fakes. Is that bad? Yes, because they inflame populist movements. Uh-oh, that definitely sounds bad. Because… it might… affect the… treaty?! Why yes, it might. And that could be bad. So that’s why we are worried! That’s right! Alien delicacies… “always a crap shoot!” Hope that didn’t translate! The alien child reveal was ridiculous. Then the goofy punishment of “seeing a child who will never be.” Ottis Jr said, “This is stupid, does anyone watch this show after they make it?” And I would respect Seth more if he didn’t make his character the center of everything. But one thing I do know, and I am calling it right now: Seth, er, I mean, Ed, and his alien love child will be the salvation of the war, at some point. Because that's how Seth rolls. Too bad they didn’t kill Charley. Really, when you think about it, couldn’t they have extracted the landing party without the space battle? I mean, cloaked ship, emitters to look like Krill ... and apparently no planetary defenses. The giant Union fleet was unnecessary to the plot. Also? I guess Avis is #1 now, after decades of trying harder. Did they make that joke? if so, I apologize, I sometimes miss dialogue because I'm incredulous.

Way too early for this kind of episode. We’re still learning about these actual characters. Hard to have them play against type this early in a series. Though Uhura was excellent. Also, it was boring. I was glad M’Benga started playing along relatively quickly, to get things moving. Yay, a Jeffries tube! By the way, what happened to the knowledge the Chosen One’s dad left M’Benga to help his daughter? Hope that nebula alien isn’t a psycho. Bet his daughter comes back one day as an adult. Oops, I spoke too soon. Teaches me for posting as I watch.

Leia sure changed quickly from an independent, “I can fix this” scamp to scared 10 year old. Using The Force in front of lots of witnesses is not particularly smart, Zombie Reva. Though you do seem to be the only person to have thought of looking for Luke’s family. A star destroyer takes that long to capture a severely out gunned and out everything else, damaged ship? “It’s about you and him.” Well, it wasn’t until he started chasing me. Now that he is, and is on the tail of our damaged ship, yeah, it is about me and him, I guess. And for some reason, Obi-Wan regains his light saber skills. After a season of doubt. Has he been practicing? Also, if these Jedi spent less time throwing rocks at each other, and put more time into, you know, stabbing with light sabers, these fights would be shorter. Is Luke dead? Oh no! Wait, we already know he can’t be dead. So… what are we watching? By giving who peace, she honored them? Reva’s part is confusing. Who did she fail? The guy who stabbed her? Her entire role was just unnecessary. Unless they need her for a spin off. The emperor is a dick. Like so much of this series, a lot of fan service. They didn’t screw up Vader, though. Thankfully.

Miami Vice did it better (analogy spoilers for this ep of Lincoln lawyer): The expert witness said there was a massive amount of GSR on Elliott, more than would have been accounted for from shooting a gun from time to time. And really, all that does is indicate it *could* have been that, or it *could* have been from shooting the two victims. But yeah, it's a stretch to guess that Mickey would find an explanation (the same police vehicle), unless we learn others already knew that in the next ep. I'm glad there is another episode, because if it had ended here, I would have been disappointed in the twist. Hopefully the twist gets better.

Sorry, I am binging this, and getting all my comments out at once. The big moment was a bit underwhelming, but OK. Still, as I posted after the last ep, the behavior of Mickey remains inconsistent. The guy who has been preaching how you can never assume what a jury will do, is openly celebrating "we won" before the verdict? I thought I had missed the verdict at first, then realized at the start of the ep after this I had not. His client is kind of an immature ass, so OK, he might prematurely celebrate. But the Mickey I've seen the past 7 eps wouldn't join in.

So are the cars Mickey drives his dad's cars? I don't get the brassy license plates, like "IWALKEM." It doesn't match his demeanor, which, while confident, isn't "Better Call Saul." Also, Cisco? Tailing suspects might be more effective without the loud hog. And Mickey, you already know a Russian gangster is involved - and you leave your door unlocked, with your daughter there? Yet you arrange for bikers to watch your wife's house. All these little details keep taking me out of the story. The way the show tries to portray characters doesn't match what they actually do. And why is Lorna so afraid of spa lady?

And this is why I find the ex-wife interaction bordering on creepy. They are EX-wives. They split up for a reason. Do we need to see all the flirty interaction now? It slows down the show, and ultimately, it does not and will not matter. They already know whatever their issues were, and they were enough to divorce. Yet the show keeps tossing this in our faces. And now they keep throwing out clues about a “her” people recognize Mickey can’t get over. I pretty much skipped all the jury selection process. That's been done to death, and some of us have even experienced it IRL. Are the books this show comes from old? Because this part felt dated to me. I am avoiding even researching the books, because I hate spoilers and don't want to stumble across anything. I thought this was contrived. And the driver, who appeared to be texting on her phone between the two seats, saying, "he came out of nowhere." Ugh. That was almost a biting comment on society but it was so ridiculous it didn't work for me. Cisco has potential, but we need more investigator Cisco and less fiance Cisco. Agree there! And hope your week went better. Also, it's weird that a lawyer in a high profile case would now start going to AA. That makes no sense. And? Apparently LA traffic is a myth.

If I ever read the books, maybe they will seem slow as a result, too. I'm watching the TV show right now. And honestly, the subtle fawning over Mickey by both ex-wives is getting creepy. I don't know who wrote the books, but is that a thing in the author's life? Because it feels like someone is projecting.

I agree, the show *is* slow - but part of what makes it slow are these constant pit stops where Mickey has to interact with his ex-wives, both of whom clearly still care for him. Also, the daughter, to a lesser degree. It's excessive. Bosch does the same thing with the daughter, but they worked the daughter in as a meaningful character. They have sort of done that with Lorna - but then added on Cisco as baggage. Why do all these people have to be connected to each other? Also, when is Mickey going to look inside the damn fish's mouth? There has to be a reason he keeps staring at it. I like the driver a lot. And Mickey himself is good when he is focused. I think this would be a better show if we learned more about the criminals he represents, and less about his ex-wives and their relationship.

Like the lawyer stuff, don’t care for the family stuff. Especially the ex wives who still care for him. At least so far. It’s Bosch for lawyers, in a way.

So that's on purpose, eh? IMO it is what will tank the show. Not sure there is a big audience for a lesser version of ST:TNG. The writing isn't good enough to go straight. Given that punchline, the 50 minutes *should* have involved, say, meeting a species that is immortal, or near to it, and the issues with living that long (boredom, seeing everything happen 1,000 times, not much that is new, relationships with mortals, etc.). That could have set up a philosophical debate about whether human life spans or about right vs. Vulcan vs. being immortal. At the end, each crew member could have shared where they landed. Ed still could have said what he said, but Gordon might have said nah, 80-90 years is enough, etc. We could have learned more about how each main character thinks as well as met other species as well as had a thoughtful theme. But we didn't. I think Seth making this a vanity project, is its Achilles heal. It's like life-long Washington Football Team owner Dan Snyder buying the "Commanders." His own belief in what it should be, in his eyes, misses his blind spots and actually lessons and/or kills the franchise.

That last 5 minutes or so of the ep were the best of any Orville this season. It shouldn't have taken 40 minutes of meh to get there. The first 40 minutes should have been about the pluses and minuses of immortality. Some people just eventually get bored NOW with 80 years. Of course, when Ed said he wanted to live forever, in my mind I answered, "So I can make more shows starring myself and featuring my girlfriends!" I have always thought it looks like a big butt, and was a Family Guy humor thing.

And there is the problem. It's not a very good homage to Star Trek when it plays it straight. Really, it reminds me of some of the live action Sat morning shows from the 80s ... wasn't there one called Ark or some such? {Note: Holy smokes, it was the 70s and was called Ark II). Orville tries way too hard to be thoughtful, and it comes off as simplistic. And Seth is not a very good actor.. In the first season, the humor added cleverness and made the straight stuff less important. It had a niche. Since then, we have had Discovery evolve, Picard and now Strange New Worlds. We don't need a poor imitation when we have actual Trek (which varies in quality, but all are more well done that Orville). Has anyone seen ratings? Maybe I'll look in the media thread. Exhibit A of my comment above ... *those* were their biggest fears? Getting beat up in high school? Poor piloting and a plane going down? Mundane stuff, fit for a sitcom. A sci-fi TV show should do much better. Exhibit B. This was meant as a lighter episode? Gordon getting beat up wasn't played for laughs. Kicking him while he was already pummeled to the ground? Playing for laughs would have been a swirly in the toilet. I saw pretty much no humor from the characters in those fake situations. Exhibit C. This is a vanity project for McFarland, from casting himself as captain to repeatedly hiring his girlfriends. Alara is OK. Charley is awful. If this show is an homage, it is an homage to Seth. Another reason it is difficult to watch.

I thought this, with disappointment, as soon as we saw the high school (also: Cat's Paw ep of TOS), followed quickly by noting we now know how the show will save some money after the special effects extravaganza of the first episode - it pulled a Picard, shooting basically IRL. Both thoughts saddened me. And then there are the continuing juvenile anti-Kaylon antics of Charley, which play out like an after-school special. Orville is bizarre. It is perfectly set up for Star Trek parody - and in season three, it insists on playing it straight. It is like watching cutting room floor episodes of ST:TNG from the 80s. Or Galaxy Quest, without the humor and inside jokes. Though the acting on GQ was much better than Orville. I'm not sure why - most of it was shot in current IRL settings. The CGI creature wasn't great. It took me 4 tries to finish the first episode of this season. I quit watching episode 2 about halfway through and didn't go back. And this one I made it to the "plane crash" and lost interest. When Orville debuted I enjoyed it, but that has really waned.

LOL. So true. And look at the engine room! Maybe. But TOS pulled stories from actual sci-fi writers. Many of those eps had a philosophical or moral question at stake. And, at that time (mid 1960s), many of them were new to television, or at least fairly new. Do you go back in time to change a terrible event in the past? Isn't discrimination based on whose side of the face is black or white silly and dangerous? Is real life conflict, with all its messiness, preferable to mindlessly continuing an ancient war with willing sacrifices? Are the needs of the many, or the few, more important than the needs of the one (yes, that was STII but some version of it existed in TOS)? That was the best part of ST to me - and then on top of that, there were characters I grew to like. And ST-made implications, like what happens when you accidently leave a book about the mob on a developing planet? That's why we have the Prime Directive, etc. Discovery, and Picard, both set aside that whole point of ST to instead tell "hero stories" about the main characters instead of make us think about difficult choices. Discovery dipped its toe in it, but then pulled back. The less said about Picard, the better. For sure, parts of them were. Kirk concludes many an episode with an impassioned speech about freedom, or free will, or whatever. Different time in America. Still, the overall point is still worth thinking about, even if we snicker at the goofy passion or cheesy sets.

Most importantly, SNW seems to be finding its groove. Two true Trek episodes in a row now. You can nitpick aspects of them (and yes, I agree, no way the Enterprise should have been taken over that easily), but the plot was interesting and the ep managed to introduce a few pieces to the puzzle (Sybock, and more Spock/Chapel development). I wasn't a fan of Captain Angel's moustache twirling. I *think* the ep was going for levity, what with that and the easily duped pirates and the fact both Pike and Una seemed way too confident and unperturbed at their predicament. I would have been horribly embarrassed that I let the ship be taken over by that group. And that is why the show didn't quite work. It didn't go far enough to humor, or it went too serious in other parts. It was a strange mix. Still, it told an enjoyable story and fleshed out much of the crew a bit more. The show is finding its way.

I don't know what happened this season (was it me, or the show, that changed?), but I found the cinematography just stunning, especially during the last 3-4 episodes. Almost Breaking Bad-esque. It went well with what seemed like less dialogue and more visual craziness. All I kept thinking about Barry (the character), from the point Albert let him go, was how his mind must be breaking given all the things that had happened to him, almost one after the other. Also, ironic that Albert "catches" Barry when Barry is burying the guy who actually was trying to kill Barry AND Sally - that was self-defense, not a hit. And Albert is a pretty power character who just showed up and yet has all sorts of conflicts playing across his face. In fact, this show is filled with distinctive characters, which I really enjoy. I also watch Mayans, so Cristobal is quite the switch in character from Bishop. Cristobal doesn't seem to require a lot of acting, but the physical presence is so different. I assume now that the show has both Barry and Fuches in prison that the hijinks will continue there. Maybe they will each lead rival prison gangs?

Well, EZ is delusional. No one to care about now. This show can stay or leave.

It would have been a lot smarter for the people just standing around waiting for the hanger to open (solved by a 10yo girl, BTW) to actually have gotten on the ship while waiting, so they could have taken off before Vader got there. But hey, this show doesn't do logic. But timing apparently isn't anyone's strong point ... Reva. Yes, wait until Vader is just standing there, doing nothing. And Vader, tsk tsk. Leaving enemies alive. But you have to love the dimwit stormtroopers all standing outside the blast door, easy targets for say ... a grenade? No, wait - hold on to that, Tela, until later when you can't take out as many. Sigh.

I've been asking myself why Butcher received the powers he did - twice, no less - and wondering if everyone gets those. Then we see what Hughie received. I can't think of any reason why they would get those powers vs any others. Your theory is as good as any, but I have no idea how it would work - you have a super nemesis in your mind, and a chemical gives your body those powers? Even in this show, that mind/body link is a long putt. is it which superhero you were last near? That is true. It was hailed as rap breakthrough at the time, and i just couldn't get over the lines about the man from Mars eating cars.