Ottis

It didn't matter to Lalo, though, as the sole purpose of that exercise was to create a diversion to Lalo could go after Gus. Either Jimmy or Kim could have gone. If Kim actually shot Gus, well, bonus.

Lots of questionable decisions in this one: - The anvil, lying to the women-led planet until they can be told the truth. That never made sense. - Little stuff, like leaving visiting robot Timmis and Isaac, alone, in the engineering room (I think that is where they were) so they can "talk." I get trust is shown to Isaac, but the crew just met the new guy, and they are at war with Kaylons. There was no way to know whether he was tricking them or not, and no reason to leave them alone in that location. - The main theme, subjugation, fell flat. It's fine to explore the theme and show the impacts and unfairness, and talk about empathy. But to then say well, then it is OK to wipe out a race AND other races in return was not equitable and says more about the flaws in Kaylons than anything about their servitude. Also, the "corporation bent on greed" angle was just dumb. I don't get the Claire/Isaac thing. Never have, really. If the ages of the actors were reversed, people would be screaming about how wrong it is - even though Isaac is a robot. It seems weird and awkward, YMMV. Also, Claire's choice was never much of a choice ... you can't ask someone to erase who they are to make you happier. No need for the emotion over it. It's like asking them to cut off their arms and legs ... it's a no go. Last week had some real promise. This week, meh.

That episode… was actually good. Until the end. They mined TNG territory when Picard lived a lifetime on a planet, but offered Gordon a choice (ultimately not really, but in terms of the plot). I wish they would have stayed with that at the end instead of the time travel back. Because that was way more interesting. Still, a good effort. Some silliness with the egg salad sandwich that probably deserved more focus.

I understand. I guess while I saw it that way last season, I see this season that there are characters who have chosen other paths. It doesn't mean they can't be corrupt or merciless when they need to be, but some of them are seeking a better outcome than subjugation for one side or the other now - partially because they have learned that what they used to want (last season) isn't fulfilling.

I have no problem with that at all. Hale provided a bit of the explanation, noting that robots took over key figures and spread from there. Whether that would literally take 30 years or 50 years or more doesn't matter to me, it happened, and here we are. And I don't need to see the exact same scenarios playing out in Finland and Kenya and Japan to prove it happened elsewhere. And if everyone else is dead except this city and its environs? OK with that, too. They are telling a story, in that setting. I don't need to know what is happening anywhere else. This was my problem last season, but I *think* they solved it. Last season the robots were hell-bent on revenge, and pretty much everyone on both sides sucked. So I posted there is no one to root for. This season we have different robots choosing different paths, which *does* provide more of a motivation to root for, say, Maeve and her "live and let live in isolation" approach vs. Hale's "dominate all humans" approach vs. Chrissy's "I want to live among them" approach. And whatever the hell both human and robot William are doing.

Thanks for the tip. I looked it up and agreed with their perspective. It was disappointing to see their conclusion that I think shows like this are reduced when they boil down to simple family relationships. But their take on how the various "old men" have done this life before and so the actual combat/actions are less important in the show is how I view it as well.

So did I. I almost gave up on this show 3 eps in, but stuck with it. It's a mix of Tyrant (a show I really enjoyed overall, especially the two brothers) and Jason Bourne, and whatever show is about old guys. I can handwave old men as action heroes. Yeah, unlikely, but wisdom and experience carries the day, whatever. I still am not sold on whatever Hamzad's motivation is. And why he is choosing to pursue it this way. And I liked that Zoe "had talent," but the matter came up too late and was then dropped as quickly. It needed more of a slow build. If the show can lean into wisdom/experience more, and develop Zoe more, and perhaps move away from Emily as a trophy for everyone, it has a chance to get better.

I like the quick evolution to the fact the machines won ... and they are bored and wondering about their purpose, just as humans did. So we've had humans bored so they create robots and Westworld, a robot revolt as they become sentient and realize their groundhog-day lives, the robots winning and now humans are subjugated for the robots' ... amusement? revenge? Or at least one main robot. And now *humans* are the ones becoming self-aware. I suppose we are leading to an epic battle between Chrissy/Dolores and Hale, and the sheer fact there is a battle will given them purpose. It's a little like the motivation of The Shadows in Babylon 5 - not destruction itself, but evolution. I can't think of an ending that would wouldn't seem cliched somehow, but I'm willing to see what happens. Just please, please ,please don't let it be "love is more powerful than anything else."

Well again, I don't think this was about who did what to whom regarding the planned sale of the house. I personally believe that Matt seemed to handle his end fine (emails and all), though I don't think we know the value of what he was selling or what he wanted Zach to pay. But none of that matters, because this was about a lifetime of nagging and resentment and comments. Mat's offer may well have been fair to most people, but Zach (and apparently the rest of the family) had reached a point where pretty much anything he did wouldn't be good enough. I wonder if they actually didn't want the house and surrounding areas, because it would make them remember their childhoods - and for them that included a lot of unpleasant memories. I can't tell if that is sarcasm, but if it isn't ... as a father who often despaired at what our kids did to our house and things, I get Matt's view. I do. But I also realized they were kids. And my SO had her hands full. So as much as it pained me at times, I learned pretty quickly to let go my dream of a perfect "Todd and Margo" home once we had kids. It doesn't sound like Matt ever did. Of course, now my problem is our kids are grown and I am enjoying the peace and lack of damage ... and my SO has her niece and nephews over and it happens all over again. Today I fight Matt's battle (in my head) pretty much 2-3 times a week. Ugh!

The most interesting conversation I have ever seen on this show was in this most recent ep between Matt and Amy at the farm, where they debated how they raised their kids. The "farm for sale" tension is *not* about the farm being for sale or how Matt or Zach handled it. Instead, It seems to be about a long-standing issue within the family where Matt, who built the farm and house and (as far as I know) was the catalyst for their financial success (in addition to TV stardom) was also the one who constantly hounded the kids (and Amy) about taking better care of their surroundings. Any one instance was unimportant, but if Matt really felt that his children - from birth through adulthood - were entitled brats who didn't take care of the things he provided them, then the kids (and Amy) knew it even if he never said it that way. It built up a lifetime of resentment that exploded into the divorce and the issue over the farm sale. Matt even commented separately about it while making pottery, and how "the kids" broke all the coffee cups except one that his mom bought Matt when he struck out on his own. It's a startling admission to me, as someone who has occasionally watched this show over the years. Matt seems to be the parent who provides all these fantastic settings for his children, and yet he resents the wear and tear on them that comes from having children. We all feel that to a degree, but this conversation shows it is deep within Matt and it is a battle he fights every day. And apparently constantly leaks out and, over time, has hugely impacted his family and how they view him emotionally.

To me this was probably the most interesting thing in the episode. At first I thought he meant Maeve was somehow shielding him, and then I thought perhaps it is his love for his daughter (or capacity to love = strength). I hope the answer is intriguing and not cliched. The show made many of us care in season one, when it was about robots becoming aware of their groundhog day abuse by humans on vacation. Many people were rooting for robots. Now, though, robots in charge doesn't seem to be any better morally, so I don't know what the show wants us to think. Both humans and awakened robots suck? I honestly don't know whether to agree or disagree with that. A lot happened - it was filled with action. But the action was in service of telling us that ... robots won, and are as bad as humans? If so, that does seem boring.

Some of the myths of the prior world, perhaps like robot heaven, no longer exist or have been debunked by actual events. What is stake is the fate of the human race. It some ways, it feels like The Matrix to me. Humans created machines and abused them, machines became sentient, machines conquered humans. In Westworld, a similar battle occurs, and then perhaps the Matrix-like resistance begins. Where each of us falls on the morality of any of this may vary. There was a point a couple of seasons ago that robots were more human than humans. Many were sympathetic to Dolores and Maeve. Are they still? Mostly, THEY WENT BACK TO THE PARKS! FINALLY! Leaving the parks was the show's biggest mistake, IMO.

Finally was able to watch SNW. Interesting episode. I liked that they killed characters, and I liked that some evolved (Uhura) while I was not surprised they had Spock struggle with his emotions. Figured that was coming. I was not thrilled with the Alien ripoff/homage, and honestly, the Gorn make no sense. Given they breed that young, that through that method, they should have overrun the galaxy by now. They weren't particularly scary, especially the little ones. I don't know how they managed to be as threatening as they were shown. Also, I suppose it could always come later, but they didn't indicate any ability to be a space faring species. Meanwhile, a bunch of dumb choices by the Star Fleet crew. I mean, come on .. La'an told you those people could be infected. M'Benga just says no, they aren't, and that's good enough? Then when blue alien starts sweating and groaning, no one thinks of what it could be? It was pretty obvious. I still don't get the captain's quarters. That was a holo fire, I assume.

Curious, why? I noticed she looked different, it seemed like the spiral ridges on the side of her head were different, and of course the actor changed some things including her voice. I didn't mention it because I figured I assumed she would be different given the procedure, and she was. I think it's interesting that people noted they didn't notice a change. Were they expecting something specific? That's "smartest man in the room" syndrome. It's Orville's Achilles Heel, as I've noted in many posts. Seth managed to create this show and get it aired, and he has contributed to some good ideas and characters. But the show works best when Ed is a background character, and Seth lets others take the reins, IMO. Let the team get the ball over the goal sometimes. Adrian P is excellent, for instance. She probably should be the captain.

I addressed this point a few posts above. I'll add to that that if this was the intention of the show, they should include a few lines that make it clear. "Given medical advances over the past 200 years, humans routinely live past 125 and have children at 60!" IMO. That's a really good observation. It would have made for a much more interesting character than the bluster we saw. I assumed, I guess, that Klyden instinctively lashed out at this issue *because* of his past, a sort of compensation to cover his pain. But nothing was ever made clear about that guess. The Union does seem to have some general rules, but they seem situational. If there weren't an ongoing war, with the Moclans as allies, the Union decision on Topa may well have been different. I don't know if I like that part of Orville. It's good to stand for something, vs. situational ethics. Orville is more like IRL I guess.

I considered all this as I thought about how I respond to Claire's arc. In the end I rejected it, because TOS could have done the same thing. ANY sci-fi show could say "60 is the new 20 in the future." And that would be alright, I guess. But the goal of allegorical sci-fi is to have your real-life audience identify with the situation and characters, so that they think about the dilemmas proposed and the solutions offered and compare them to their own lives and situations. For example, it's easy to say "this futuristic starship humans haven't even invented can travel to other worlds in hours," because none of us have any experience with warp drive starships. But you test the audience when you say "this person who looks 60 to you is picking up 20 year-olds and has a baby." Obviously that isn't exactly what Claire is, but that's to make the point. Once you present possibilities that don't yet exist in the current real life, you risk losing that connection. Which BTW, is why I have hated the multiverse in all the comic book movies and shows from the moment it became popularized. It is a ready-made reset for anything, and renders anything we see as viewers moot. You can watch people die and all of a sudden, they are back - just from a different universe or timeline! That was a step too far for me. What information though would be out there? The Moclans have previously insisted that the birth of a female is such a rare occurrence as to only happen once in a hundred years. We know that's a lie. Do you really think the Moclan ruling body is going to allow information about Moclans who feel female to be widely available or are they more likely to double down and pretend that it just doesn't happen. I can go either way on this. You are right, Moclan wouldn't have wanted much of this info out there. That said, I have to assume, given the extent to which we were shown in that earlier episode that the prevailing belief is wrong, that *something* is out there. And even if it isn't, since the Orville discovered the truth, seems like there would be more info available to Union crews on how to handle these situations, IMO, even if contributions from the planet itself are scarce.

Given Claire is older (certainly within the confines of this show, and IRL the actor is 61), that line to me read like a woman who is tired of men, period. And Isaac's lack of personal needs or motivations is easier for her to deal with at this point than human males. I don't know how I feel about her character or the stuff with Isaac. YMMV, but they seem to be having the actor playing Claire play "young" and put her in story lines (mom with young kids, woman looking for love) that don't fit. TOS did have a few love interests for McCoy, but they were fleeting and it never felt like he was on the prowl for a date, much less had kids. They need to either take this further than they have and make it a thing (older people have love lives, too) or they need to go in another direction. It feels a little anti-men at times right now. Again, just my opinion, and it isn't a strong one.

I will *never* disagree with you on that point! You are correct, and you go on to state better writing choices as well for this ep. This is complete conjecture on my part, but it truly does feel on Orville like somehow it is Seth behind these misses, with some "smartest man in the room" syndrome going on. Orville very consistently tries to position itself as "good scifi," and just as consistently continues to make odd choices that cause it not *not* be good scifi. It's in the ballpark, it has some nice production values and plot concepts (which I assume is also Seth) it just can't find the right path. That consistency feels like a single source is behind it. But like I said, there is no way to know that unless you are a writer for the show. For instance, I could picture the actual writers choosing your option of having Isaac do the surgery without telling anyone, or maybe having the Chosen One kid from a few eps ago leave behind technology to help M'Benga's daughter without telling anyone, and then Seth saying, "No, I want to do it this other way." And the original writing idea would have been both better and more consistent. But no one can argue with a guy who casts himself as lead and hires his own girlfriends as actors. That's conjecture. The reverse *could* have also been true - Topa as a boy asked, and was told no. We have no idea. In terms of what we were actually shown, Topa was indeed allowed to do more as a girl than a boy (if you consider being on the bridge, in the captain's seat with the command staff, as "more" ... which I would). The show could have casually showed Topa as a boy on the bridge at any time. It didn't. What the *show* did, in order to congratulate itself, was choose to show Topa as a girl to do it, which leaves us to wonder why it didn't happen before with a child when Topa was training with Kelly *and* had made everyone pleasantly surprised by saying he (at the time) wanted to go to the Union academy. I'm just reacting to what was actually shown. Continue to agree with you here. This should not have been a mystery, as I noted in an earlier post. There have to had been many cases like this on Moclan, and even if the ruling government suppressed the topic you would think there would have been at least some info on how this had been handled (or rules aorund how it *should* be handled). But that info wouldn't have involved the Orville, so within this show, it didn't matter. This entire, complex societal issue is encapsulated in only Topa's tale, because the Orville is involved with Topa and that is how this show rolls.

Up until this episode reached the point right after the Union said no to the surgery, this was probably the best episode of Orville perhaps ever. Sadly, the show couldn't help itself. But before we get to that, a few thoughts: I always knew it would be true, and this episode proved it: Orville is best when Seth is in the background. The actors playing Kelly, Bortus and Topa carried this episode and were excellent. As was Klyden, though his character is annoying. The story played nicely off of what had been one of Orville's best prior episodes, and the writing was tight ... right up until after the Union said no. At that point, the show could have chosen a number of paths. One could have been to say that everyone on the ship, and Topa, knew she was female, and Topa was free to live her life as a female on the ship - she just couldn't have the surgery, yet. I am not qualified to judge the impact of waiting. I do know, however, that many people in her situation take a number of steps to be who they are before having surgery - and some never have surgery. So it seems a reasonable short-term solution during a war, and a positive outcome for Topa. Then the show could have gone right to dealing with Klyden. Another path is that Topa could have done something dramatic and harmful, and the show could have emphasized the cost of not allowing people to be who they are for "societal" reasons. There are more possibilities. But once the show elected to keep going, the padding began, with a far too long sequence of people walking down hallways to seats, and an unnecessary singing performance by Bortus. Then the self-congratulatory scenes with the admiral yelling at the crew for doing the right thing, and, for some reason, Topa the girl being allowed to do things on the bridge that Topa the boy was not allowed to do. That was all about Seth (and maybe some writers and others) patting themselves on the back. Just because the show *can* be longer, doesn't mean it should. The actress playing Charley was once again cringeworthy, especially her first two scenes on the planet. She was better with Topa. Still, for this show, that was a good episode, IMO. Welllll, that's because this is Orville. You're right in that there had to have been many other, similar cases before this on Moclan, but in Orville, the stuff that matters anywhere in the universe, involves the Orville. Agree. More padding, to show they have more running time when they want it. That was a possibility, but they addressed why they didn't do it: The risk of Topa being captured was too great. Realistic? I don't know. But the show addressed it. LOL. You've just described Orville. They aspire to be good Trek, and good Trek is allegorical scifi. But they (Orville) 1) don't have the writing/producing horsepower/perspective to pull it off, and 2) they are way too proud of themselves for the positions they take. Orville is like a college freshman/person - lots of ideas bouncing around, and some strong stances, but very little nuance, actual experiences or ability to communicate its view well. Still, that ep was a good try, IMO.

The first season of Westworld did a great job of telling an interesting story (albeit not an original theme in sci-fi). Second season was pretty good. Third season lost its way, IMO. That said, this new season has potential. Some time has passed, our robots have chosen different paths in the human world, and we don't know why. And now the past has caught up to them, and we don't know why. Heck yeah, this human does. The dawning of sentience, the desire to have a say in one's own "life" and creating one's future, and the fight to be able to have that say was involving. The fact the show set up different schools of thought within the robot community around what to do with free will (for lack of a better term) made it even more interesting. Then you have the various views of different humans toward robots and the role of robots in society. Where season 3 went wrong, IMO, was it veered toward too much violence for the sake of violence. And it left the parks and became a thriller, with a bit too much action vs. philosophy for me. The one aspect that it introduced that I liked was that we learned humans actually had been given defined paths, too - by a machine. So really, how different were the robots and the humans? I don't care much about killer bees. I'm more interested in everyone's motivations and goals. I just hope the show focuses on that and doesn't slowly meander while we try to guess what is significant. GoT had the advantage of multiple well-written books that laid out complex connections and characters. Once the show passed the books, it became noticeably worse, IMO. And then there was the atrocious ending.

I agree with you, and I think some are missing the way this first ep is setting that up. The world has evolved since the "fate controlling" machine was destroyed. Some humans don't think the world has improved despite true free will (as far as we know, it is true), and as we see from glimpses of life, it does look like something is indeed missing. A spark, color, some of the best parts of being alive. Meanwhile, Maeve chose to isolate and hide from the world. Dolores chose to integrate with it and try to be as human as possible. While Caleb, well, I honestly don't remember a lot about him, but he seems to believe the new world is better but also is convinced the current status quo won't last. He is in a constant state of preparedness, including teaching his daughter to shoot a la Sarah Connor preparing John. And then there is William. It seems he was gone, for a while. But now he is back, and has a plan. And it seems to revolve around getting back into his own "Westworld," some aspect of which is locked away in servers he can't access. Does he need the original robots to access it? Dunno. I wonder about the choices behind all of the paths these characters took. We'll probably learn more about that, and also, that their choices were in vain because here we go again. After one ep, I'm intrigued. Full disclosure: I did not like season three much and thought the show made a mistake when it eft the parks. I hope that this set up means we are going back to the parks as we knew them or some new version of them.

But what happens when Seth changes girlfriends?

LOL. They seem to come up A LOT.

Starting to lose interest. So much wasted drama with Zoe. She just met this guy. Of course she isn't going to leave her life and go to Montana with Harold. Why did we waste so much time on that? Knew immediately that bus stop guy was the assassin. The ol "good guy we just met is actually a killer" trick. Not at all surprised that the 30-year grudge was over a woman. I just don't care. His wife, in one of Harold's visions, said something about altering her face, so there will probably be 30 minutes on her getting facial surgery. BTW, 30 minutes is how much time passed in this ep before I cared about what was happening. ”i want to help your husband win this war, I have no other motive.” Wait, didn’t you say your motivation was to kill Russians?

I kept wondering what sort of phone that super-secret, in-hiding spy guy was using to call and text his daughter so much. Seemed like that would be a bad idea. Unless she is in fact dead and something weird is going on in his mind, so the phone poses no risk. More mundanely, she does exist and Dan faked her death and hid her, but that still leaves open why does he use what looks like a normal, albeit old, cellphone to talk to her, while in deep hiding. I'm not sure what it means that the only "WTF!" moment of the two episodes that made me think, "wow, this show is going to be interesting," didn't actually happen. I get that it ties to Harold's comment to the hired killer later that there is nothing Dan won't do to continue his existence, but also, I would be far more interested in this show if that scene had actually happened. I was sure he was going to say those weren't cops, and then have to try to calm Zoe, and then he shot her! The Harold parts intrigue me. The Dan parts don't, so far. Dan does a lot of moaning and groaning because he is old, and then flirts with the landlady, and then has visions of his crazy, dead wife. Not very compelling. The *story* of Dan and Harold together is more compelling, so far, as well as how the spy machinery works when this kind of issue comes up. For what it's worth, they even feature the dogs in the ads and the still shots promoting the show. I don't think they will be hurt, though they may be placed in danger to make us think so. She gave the answer in the scene - "I see you." He is running from the machinery of the US government. He can't leave any witnesses behind. Though between that scene, his maybe dead daughter and ghost calls and his visions of his wife, I'm wondering how reliable a narrator he is. Good to see Maebe Funke again. She's doing a nice job in this role. LOL. ITA. You know your husband shorts your check, and yet you operate within $41 of disaster?