catrice2

Looking at the Bio's matt likes them young, Clare is not an option.

If the spoilers are true next week is going to be a mess.

Certainly everyone has their own idea of beauty, but a quick Google search and the only person I would call gorgeous is Tayshia, and she has a long pointed face ( like mine). I certainly don't think that Michelle is any worse than many of the others that have been on the show, and just as attractive as an Abigail or a Katie for sure, unless they look much better than their Bio pictures. I guess it would depend on what men were cast to determine if they find her attractive. I'll bet many of the men on every season hasn't really found the Bachelorette attractive...it is the thrill of being in Bachelor Nation, being on TV or getting endorsements and new friends. So Becca, Kaitlyn JIllian, Meredith etc. are what we are calling beautiful? I mean, is that a requirement for being a Bachelorette or the Bachelor ? because most of them are not what I would call attractive. I think giving them the title ( and for the women long scraggly extensions) makes them attractive to people. Certainly the right clothes, contour and hair can do a lot..... Michelle has gorgeous eyes.

@rebel2u I don't have to watch the show to comment on it. Is that a rule of this board? The board said "speculating." It is all over pop culture and I have friends that watch it. You can't get away from it or the "Real Housewives " of anything. Do I have to watch the show to know it has a problem with race? Do I have to watch the show to know that in my opinion it sets a bad example for young girls and boys that I work with every day and who frequently bring up these reality shows? I feel that way about reality tv in general as well as Rap music. I don't find perpetuating stereotypes and laughing at other people's bad behavior entertaining, but that is just me. For people who do, so be it. Mindless to me is when I know people are playing a character, not thinking they actually act that way in real life. Everyone has their own opinion. If this was , for instance, Unreal it would be a different experience. I think reality tv contributes to desensitizing young people to outrageous behaviors and in some instances encouraging it, especially after they see that people are rewarded for such behaviors financially. I don't have to watch the show to watch a clip of Chris Harrison and Rachel to know that it was a problem. I have watched the show for some episodes in the past, but I have never watched a season in totality. Primarily when a POC was involved to see what happened and how they were portrayed.....so yeah, I have thoughts about it. I also don't actively listen to rap music either, but I have thoughts about most of that as well. People don't have to read them, or agree with them.

I agree. I think Lee was a plant because his was so obvious that no vetting had been done or someone wanted him there. That's why I wonder about Racheal. To your point however, there may indeed be a certain type of person who is in charge of certain aspects that either doesn't know better (or they pretend not to) , or they do. The problem is that when there was so much scrutiny last year one of the things they promised was to do a better job of vetting.

Who is carried away? I am not suggesting that anyone was "set up" because they are a person of color, what I SAID was that the POC got the budget seasons. They had waited that long to have one, why give them the seasons where they could not travel? Why not wait until it was the "full" experience? They could have given both seasons a lot more consideration. I SAID that they did it as a backlash to the climate and they got short changed. Also, when Clare was chosen it was not COVID. Matt got a nicer surrounding because they learned from Tayshia/Claire's season. Thank you.

Chris' stepping aside for the AFTR will only make certain people madder. I doubt his reason is about doing the work and more that he didn't want to have to ask Rachael about the topic. Or that after his debacle production decided he could not be impartial when he did. He was going to be in a no win situation and they realized it. If he asked her tough questions the larger audience was going to be mad, if he ignored it another segment mad, and if he asked someone would say he didn't ask enough. I don't, however, want to see Rachel L. step in. That would really infuriate people. Or even Tayshia for that matter. I don't care about Matt and Rachael that was speculation. I do believe, however that most POC do not want to sit and watch a Black man defend a racist...not in the climate of today. All these people keep saying "its just a show" are the same people who care about these people's "journeys" and make them wealthy for posting on Instagram. It is a a show that clearly has a large influence over a number of people and if it continues to perpetuate stereotypes it is part of the problem as most shows on television are. As long as people say, "well that's just the way it is" then it will never change. And even though Rachel asked him one question and Chris went on a largely unanswered tirade...a question I might add that since it is a show based on topics any interviewer in her shoes would have.......people are blaming her and a Taylor Nolan? for his stepping aside. As if they have that kind of power.... Chris spoke freely and this is on him.

@EllenB Yes. Casting leads of color in response to BLM, (especially Matt because it was so clear he was chosen because of his Tyler/Hanna proximity) was not a good look. Everything was done in haste. Also Tayshia lucked up and hopefully found love, but the lackluster dates, etc. was unfair to her when we see how creative they have been with Matt. The POC got the cut rate, budget seasons. Again, the show may have advised Rachael not to speak, but she could have spoken on her social media without violating her contract That has been confirmed. . Sure she may have been scared, but it would have been way better for her if she had done it earlier rather than waiting until more things came out, and after the Chris debacle. Sometimes you just have to have courage. Now it does just seem to be not authentic, even though she may mean every word. Since Rachel said that after the interview Chris sent her a text basically thinking it went well and saying, "I might get a little flack" but dismissing it, then I absolutely think his is not genuine. The truth is that they thought that once they showed the "love story" it would go away and she would make some reference to it on the ATFR and everyone would say, "ooh she's changed," and then move on. You know I am not for him being fired. I actually have no time for people like that. If people want to support people like that then let them. Sure they can change and I hope they do. If it is authentic you just do the work in private, not to appease others or change a public persona for monetary reasons, but because YOU think it is the right thing to do and because you want to. Personally I respect people more who let you know who they are and stand by that instead of pretending to be something they are not. The fact is Rachael should never have been on the show if they were really vetting people which makes me wonder if it was intentional? She is just a symptom of a larger disease. You also can't make or shame people into doing the things. Sending mean comments, etc. does nothing but make them think are right and makes them defensive. The best you can do is ignore them. If she is the final pick even if she does change clearly her family has not. So Matt wants to have children with a recovering racist and expose them to active racists in laws and extended friends and family? Everyone keeps saying but they are ok with him.....they are ok with him because it brings their daughter fame and money.....if he was just some random man of color....hmmmm

So glad to see so many people from the last two seasons supporting Rachel and denouncing racism, specially the men of Tayshia's season. The former alums only posted something after they were called out except for a few. (edited to add that I don't think anyone has to support and I personally don't care if they don't, that should be a choice). I also hope the people who posted did so because it is what they felt, not because they felt pressured to. They should be free to support whatever they want or don't. What I would like to see from here is POC starting to move away from trying to be contestants on the show. I am also interested to see if they will air a final rose of Matt supporting and defending a racist that is "working on herself." Also, happy that Rachel has said she is leaving this franchise. Although I have never respected her decision to participate, and I find some of her comments contradicting, I have always felt that she has received undeserved hate for speaking the truth. If she follows through I am thrilled that she finally realized that the franchise cares nothing about her except as a token representation. Luckily she was able to find an authentic partner in it all, in spite of all the roadblocks (Lee, too young men, men who did not date black women) they put in her way, and the situations to humiliate her ( Demario) things they did not do to other leads. Not mention the edit of the "angry black woman" and not showing more of what from all told was a real love story with Bryan to make it seems as if she was totally conflicted with Peter to prop him as the next lead. Her take on the conversation with Chris Harrison just confirmed what I knew she was feeling in those moments and the comment about how yes, they had conversations before (which he led you to believe were great friends talking about serious issues) and that is why she let him talk, because she was not surprised, she was only surprised that he would say them in public and she wanted him to expose himself. She also knew that if she reacted she would be the angry blackk woman. This only underscores what he did....used his power over her in her place of work knowing she could not push back.. From accounts, it sounds like they are currently doing the same with with another white female on the show, propping her for the next lead and making her a hero at the expense of showing info on other women who have stories. I saw a graphic that shows screen time per person and it is very telling. It will be interesting if the continue with their plan to have her as the new lead.

Makes perfect sense .....but of course according to him that was BEFORE we were looking at things from a "lens."

Thank you. I am tired of people defending what can't be defended. Being from Texas, being white or "insert" is no excuse for Chris. It is not just what he said, it is how he said it. The number of "whistles" that were in his speech was astounding. Since this franchise has been dealing with accusations of racial issues for years, and since he is a producer, HE of all people should have been "doing the work" regardless of whether or not there as a RESURGANCE of the attention on Black Lives this past summer. I say it that way because he seems to think it wasn't an issue until last summer, when many, many events happened long before then and even long before 2018 when she allegedly went to this party.

I would love for that NOT to happen . Why? Because I am tired of them trotting RL out as their unpaid diversity consultant and putting a target on her back. Because I am tired of Black people being put in the situation where they have to talk and ask about painful and uncomfortable things Because I am tired of when they do talk about these thing (asked or unasked) they are labeled as aggressive , angry, problematic and unforgiving. Nah for once let this be someone else's burden. Besides, doesn't Rachel and now her husband still work for Podcast affiliated with this franchise? Rachel knows there is a lot further she can go about their foolery, but she holds back some. I would expect her to be fair and ask some tough questions, but still not go in on MATT and Racheal the way someone else might.

Yes, the chapter banned them in 2016 with an explanation of why and they had it anyway. Even if the chapter hadn't banned it, at what age are you aware that racism exists? At some of those parties (don't know about this one) they literally had some people in black face. Let's take away them calling it an Old South affair. Are you saying at 21 she didn't know what a plantation was and what happened there? I can totally understand that not everyone is aware of everything but the odds are against her not knowing what she was doing.

Just read up on Garrett and this is funny ....and yes I think that is a possibility.

Now I find out Matt and Tyler....in addition to the TikToks this summer are continuing to run around maskless. I, for one, am glad if he did choose Rachael. Most of the other girls are way out of his league from what I have read.....and they both deserve each other because they have a lot of growth to do. Besides I have heard Gonzo, Frozone and Stephon (steve urkel from family matters) and I can't unsee it. Like his buddy Tyler, nice physique, but not really attractive. Also your actions can really make you unappealing. At this point, does he have a job? At this point the girl who left is looking like a genius. How much longer until the apology tour and the promise to "learn" begins so that they can get on to the business of making money from "believers?" I am sure her Insta numbers have increased similar to the country singer who was caught saying racist things....because these days that is a clear show of support.

The contestant on there that allegedly has posted and participated in racist behavior after they pledged to vet contestants more closely..

My guess is that they are trying to distract from the current scandal by giving people someone they have obviously propped up in social media....as well as signaling to their base that they are going back to "normal," so they don't have to be worried about watching whatever the next season is....

And Rachel....I just want to go back to being a LAWYER...... Tayshia was also interesting when she said her previous job had been "helping" people and that she liked helping people and wanted to continue changing the world. I thought...hmmm you make drawing blood sound a lot more interesting than it is, or she could have meant helping people make the difficult decision of what hair gummie to buy or what hair product works for them...... I don't blame them, but it annoys me when people go to school for a subject and pay their dues only to see hosting opportunities go to someone whose qualifications are making out with men on camera and usually looking like a fool....

Where's my post about them choosing someone outside of the top 4? Or even at this point the top 5? Just because Katie was edited to be outspoken about the issues in the house that somehow makes her a great choice, or outspoken about self love? Based on comments, any other time people are dragging the person who is talking about other's behaviors, like Ed on Tayshia's season that I did watch. If that is what she is spending her time doing, what other than that, makes her the best choice out of all the other girls? Seriously asking....has there been anything else revealed about her that is interesting? She has a vibrator, and she must have been edited not to be a part of bullying, but she was part of the drama if she was the one reporting on it. I am sure there were probably other girls that were edited to appear they were a part of it and were not, and yet others who stayed out of it too...but didn't tell Matt. AT this point is anyone even sure that no one else spoke to Matt about it? It is crazy how people just believe editing on any of these people. If anything her tattling and convos probably took time away from other people in the house they could have been focusing on, especially as it doesn't sound like she and Matt had any romantic time?

No. Matt will stick by Rachel. They will go on Bachelor friendly shows that ABC owns or are affiliated with and tell their story and talk about the toxic culture of social media. Mind you, it was ok for social media to decide who others are from the edited versions on the show, but social media will be criticized for making assumptions on other things that they have seen about her and it will be said it was out of context, which is hypocrisy at its finest. They would never dare expose themselves to an interviewer that is going to ask the hard questions. Matt will talk about Christian forgiveness (if she even admits to anything) and that will be that. I am sure he has forgiven or overlooked a TON of things. My understanding is that some of her problematic likes, etc have been within the last year or so. I believe that people can change. It would be a sad world if we couldn't and I do think people should be given some grace.....BUT... although BLM and other issues have made some people look at things in a different way, you don't get rid of racists beliefs in a matter of months. It takes years to do the work and unlearn behaviors that are second nature. Just because you start posting certain thing and liking things, that means nothing, and for it to be recently ( i.e, since she knew she was cast on the show and/or entered into a relationship with Matt) that is even more suspect. Most people I know who wanted to "have the conversation" admitted that they were looking at things a different way, but that they were going to do the work to learn. IMO, you need to do that before you enter into a serious relationship. You don't just wake up one day and all of those feelings are gone. You can have friends of another race or even marry someone of another race and still have racist views and prejudices...that is a fact. There are also black people who despise other Black people ( which is a whole other issue) and those could be the type of friends those people have. I have had to xxx people who told me, " I don't see you as Black, or "you are not like other black people." People have had fetishes about Black men and Black women for years, going back to slavery days. Plenty of slave owners were willing to mate with their slaves while also dehumanizing them. So in addition to the "fame" and association of being of the show I wish people would stop posting, " well why would she go on the show? Why would she date him? That is tiring. To be honest, since he is Bi Racial that is something a lot of racist people hold on to as why they are ok...because they are not "full" black and the children probably won't be dark. The fact of the matter is .......it is not good enough to be not racist, you have to also be ANTI racist, which means that if your friends and family are still posting and doing racist things, you should be far, far away or standing up to them, not liking anything they do or say that is even remotely questionable. All that being said, Rachael could be perfectly innocent of everything, but I think if nothing else her situation has opened a good conversation and shows the hypocrisy in Bachelor nation. After the Lee situation if it turns out to be true, shame on ABC for not doing a better job if these things were evident on her social media, which allegedly was scrubbed of even more questionable things. I think ABC does certain things so that they can say, "hey, we tried the minority thing, the ratings were not high, we are a business, we have to do what works." I've been told that even though the show had a number of minority women, the editing has been mostly around the drama of the white women and bullying which is turning off the audience...why am I not surprised? I am sure there were other things they could have edited it to show. Supposedly they left a whole feud with Rachel L and someone out of the seasons she was on, because they knew they were grooming her for Bachelorette. I saw some graph that showed the amount of screen time each person gets....and guess who is getting the most? They also cast mostly bi racial black women and without watching I bet that is mostly who is left. Everything I have seen and heard Matt say indicates he wants to identify as a Biracial Man, not a black man, which is his choice and was the choice of ABC. He gives me ugh vibes either way just from seeming to lack maturity, while also seeming to be a nice guy in media. It also fits their track record of casting "black" people who are bi -racial, because I think they feel it is more accepting by their audience. I am basing that on the stupid Tik Toks I've been shown which are enough for me to think he is not ready to b a husband to anyone except someone who thinks frat boy behavior is cute. Matt has no identify beyond Tyler and Hannah's friend. The day of the insurrection my friend said he was posting golfing pictures until people started complaining, then posted a story of him at Zoom Bible study, with all non minority men. Matt gives conservative Christian "right" leaning vibes (as did Tayshia) , which is perfectly fine, but ABC knows that is not what the minority audience wanted in their first minority bachelor. They also know however, that IS what would please its wider audience. Throw in having an absentee black father and mostly (that he shows anyway) white friends, and he was perfect. Just more reasons why Rachael would be more comfortable with him. I don't have an issue with Matt or necessarily Rachael or the viewers. When it comes to this show, I have always had an issue with ABC. I had no issue with them not having minority leads...believe me, and when they did, I knew without a doubt they would edit the shows a certain way or focus on certain things. So no surprises here.

I don't even know who that is, but I do appreciate people who come and then get on with their life.

You know what amuses me? The differences in how people react to situations. As I recall, there have now been two black men who have had their characters called into question. One from BIP and one from the Bachelorette. Although no charges were filed, things from tweets, etc. were taken as gospel and people were calling for them to be arrested, etc. and who knows how that affected their personal and professional relationships? In both cases each side had people who agreed with their account of the situation, and one occurred in high school, but guess who was believed? Now that there is a question about someone else, it is "where is the PROOF?" Everyone can change! that was when they were in HIGH SCHOOL. Well of course the accuser's friends would agree with her.....they were too young to know better.... it's all hearsay ... the likes, retweeting and supporting of problematic rhetoric was misunderstood or taken out of context....even though a lot of this behavior is from the past three years...when she was fully an adult. You also form different friends if you've had a "revelation." Sometimes it even means moving on from family members. I know I have....and didn't look back. I love the fact that my parents held me accountable for being a decent human from DAY one. I was also a Girl Scout, and I took the honor code seriously. I didn't start rumors, victimize people, or support causes that were problematic towards groups of others. If I had I can guarantee you my parents would not have brushed it off because of my age. The number of students and adults I have counseled whose mental health or identity issues stem from and started with "harmless, silly" behavior from someone in their childhood is pretty high. In our history it is not too long ago that at 17 or 18 you may have been married with children of your own. This idea that everything that we do from say 25 and below should be excused because we are "young" confounds me. How old do you have to be to know that you don't name call, bully, or minimize people? No, I don't believe that someone should be demonized for the rest of their life for their actions when there is a sincere effort to change, admit where they went wrong, and acknowledge what they did. There was a lovely story on Kelly Clarkson of a White Supremist that started a friendship with his parole officer. He talked about his regret, his shame, and the changes he made in his life, on his own, with nothing to gain from it. I don't know what is true and what is not true, that is not my point. Nor am I equating an allegation of racism with an allegation of inappropriate sexual conduct or saying I believe one or the other. I am just struck by how it is always different and pointing out that both can be harmful long term to the person who is victimized. Someone explains it perfectly upthread but to be clear.....how many people admire actors, sports figures, etc. and would love to have their autograph or date them, because they are associated with fame, money or opportunity ? In other words they are "acceptable" ....but would not and have not EVER had someone who looks like that person over for dinner or engaged in a conversation with them? Would recoil from any contact with them? Think of Tiger Woods...who was the "acceptable one" because of not only his fame, but who he surrounded himself with....until he got in trouble and lost some of the fame....... he quickly went from mixed race, Cabalinasian to just BLACK. Coming on a show that has a black man as the "prize" does not mean that you have had some massive change. Maybe she has, who knows? But the "evidence" that she is NOT what she has been accused of is just as flimsy as the evidence that she is. Would that everyone in this franchise was given the same benefit of the doubt. Wonder why they were not?

@funnygirl I am reading the boards sometimes, but not watching. I have friends that watch and I work with people with disabilities that watch the show. One of the things they said to me is that they are tired of people infantiling people with disabilities. They were pointing out that people automatically fawn over you and think you are cute, etc. as if you are not an adult with the same issues as everyone else. I can't say, but they said that Abigail has not done much on the show to indicate that she would be a good Bachelorette, or that she is either a good, fun or an interesting person, but immediately when people found out she had a disability they started fawning all over her to be the Bachelorette and making certain statements. Can't speak to that, but I feel it was similar about their being a Black Bachelor. No one really asked who is Matt, WHY, other than ABC could get a built in fan base since he was Tyler's friend and hangs around Caucasian people, would people want to date him. There was a fetishism (maybe that is a strong word?) but a bad feeling I got whenever they talked about casting him and how some of the girls reacted to him in clips that I saw. Clearly it was done as a response to BLM, but do you feel like people are hyping Abigail because she is so awesome, or because they think it would be cool to have someone with an obvious disability? I say obvious disability because there are hidden disabilities. For all they know there has been someone on the spectrum, Dyslexia or a number of other disabilities that they have had to overcome that could have been just as impactful or more than her disability. ADHD and depression/anxiety can also be very serious. Just wondering what people think...what has she done to show she is so awesome? I looked her up and she is cute, but nothing outstanding.....

I am laughing at the thought that there are people who think that most of these people go on the show really expecting to get married. Maybe 2%. She probably never thought she would make it that far and could pad her Instagram numbers and fame and get some brand deals out of it. Or maybe in the middle of COVID she wanted an adventure staying at a resort for free for a few monts. Fake a relationship for a while and get the prestige of being in "bachelor nation." At some point people wan't the prestige of "winning" which would make sense the way her family and friends are bragging about her being the "winner" not that she is in love. She would not be the first or the last..... Wasn't Lee on Rachel's season? and he is not the only one with those views associated with the franchise.....I rest my case.... Better question, if Matt takes 3 WOC to the final four that DON'T win, then I want to see how the franchise gets around choosing someone else to be the Bachelorette.....because they will.

I made my sister watch this and we are all game show junkies. I think the contestant's questions were really easy in the final chase. Even I knew all but 3. On the other hand, James had some really tough and obscure questions....and STILL almost won.... I love watching him.