Featherhat

I think Arrow is probably always going to be the type of show that attracts more emotional investment, after all it's a much more emotional show. Think about them all being stranded in awful time periods for a while vs Oliver descent into Purgatory/Hell which has been going on for 5 years in flashbacks and all the other arcs. No contest really. Though I was glad that Sara's Bloodlust wasn't forgotten and dealt with. Ray had the best line with "But instead we get to be tortured and executed in Nanda "can't believe I'm back here" Parbat. Matt Nable did some of his better work as Ra's, he correctly identified them as from the future and sensibly told them to get the F out of their ASAP. Also that exchange between him and Sara was nice and goes some way to explaining parts of Arrow S3 (retroactively). But someone took note of what didn't work in S1 Hawks, Savage etc and got rid of them. As I said LOD was pure genius, I'm especially pleased for Matt Lescher since TC rightly got most of the credit for RF in Flash S1 but he's given a chance to show his chops here. Wasn't a massive fan of the Spear as McGuffin but it just about works on a more goofy show. And Arthur Darvill should play Evil more often. I've pretty much given up on The Flash grr, I wish l liked S3 more. Supergirl is ok but it suffers from no Cat Grant and I'm one of the people who doesn't like Mon-El. In theory I like that Kara has someone who is equal in strength and refugee status/knows about Krypton but is sufficiently different from her and it's not all bad at all but they way they've written it, urgh.

You're perfectly entitled to make that decision, if you can't be petty in your TV watching, when can you be? I love both characters and I don't mind in the slightest if Evil!Sara kills Good!Felicity or GoodNotQuite!Felicity or Good!Sara kills/hurts Evil!Felicity/Not!Felicity etc. EBR will probably have had a blast putting on a costume for once and it's a chance for the show to bring in another recognisable face to the Doomworld scenario. Frankly the LOD deserved to get the Spear in many ways, especially after the episode of the same name. I think it will be either that they don't remember what happened after reality is reset or they'll shrug it off as an alternate timeline/bad dream. Anyway I think it should be a lot more fun appearance than Oliver's "Ray and Sara are my friends but why don't you inexperienced historian go and find them because I don't have the time, I have a city to run! Peace Out" whilst sitting in a damn Timeship, yeah I know IRL reasons, still. I still can't believe this show has rehabilitated MALCOLM MERYLN for me, how is that possible? He's fantastic.

Yeah the BC/GA forever! chatter didn't really get started until it became clear that Olicity wasn't only another stall and O/L continued to have no/very little interest in exploring their romantic relationship when she became BC. Also a lot of the S3 angst and S4 BMD, LL's death etc strengthened a lot of the calls from other areas against "the Olicity Soap Opera romance" which gave comicbros more momentum for Only Masks! Only BC! I didn't dislike the Sara/Oliver relationship in 2B although it was noticeable that they were much less intimate once they got together and again when they broke up. I enjoy their friendship and understanding, so it would be great if CL really was coming back for an ep. Not sure what's going down in the LOT finale, but even if it ends on a cliff, they could always have her called back from earlier in the season and just have skipped over it on LOT I guess. Having often ignored it or actively written away from both things for the rest of the season. I expect S6 might be the same.

I think Sara looks a lot better in black and that the white costume is very unflattering but she doesn't wear it that much and calls herself White Canary even less, so I guess it doesn't really matter now. They should have made her BC when they had her in S2. In fact I think a lot of BTS people actually did refer to her as BC before it became clear KC was going to hang on to the role with her teeth. But she didn't have the right name, don't you know? Sigh. No wonder they made Tinah, DD, just to avoid the moaning otherwise. CL has mentioned before that she's glad to be out of the quagmire of fans complaining because she was the wrong sister. And coming late to the party on this, I had no idea that there were so many superhero/comic book pilots this year, I know they're a very popular genre right now but surely they can't all get picked up to series what with the number they already have on air as well.

Yes it does seem to have been more of a DC/WB (or maybe CW as well) directive than something the producers were desperate to include. And I think DC might well like it if they had a romantic dynamic that begged to be explored, though I don't think they do and the writers aren't trying to force it. It's not exactly a deal breaker for BC on this show. They were determined to give LL the BC mantle long after they'd given up trying to write them in any kind of relationship other than an "argumentative/occasionally friendly colleagues" one (don't think that worked either but at least it wasn't totally anti chemistry romance.) I don't really see a reason for her to be a regular next season (none of the newbies really). She can be recurring as needed and I don't think they necessarily need to rush to tie down the actress. This is her biggest gig so far and she's ok but not sparkling exactly. On another note I have no idea if WH pissed off someone or asked for time off but I always assumed it was because they wanted to concentrate on the plethora of new masks and didn't want to have to find room for Speedy especially now her Blood Lust is cleared up, MM is on LOT this season and Roy is gone for good. It's easier to write her a few scenes in the mayor's office once in a while and then have her be (rightly) suspicious of the reporter.

Well I like Anne Dudek in many things, even Big Love and in House as "Cutthroat Bitch" (really an on TV name) but I can't get that excited about much on The Flash at the moment. If she transfers to LOT I might get interested. I don't think it would be Chloe ever really. For one thing she was last seen with Smallville!Ollie and the last thing that they probably want to do is introduce the quantum mechanics of "well the blonde BFF tech girl ended up with GA but he wasn't the lead of the show, just the Lead's friend and at one time she was in love with the lead and had a huge following within the fandom etc. She comes with a lot of baggage and a lot of comparisons for this show and they probably wouldn't want to deal with it even in the crossovers where we had small talks between several characters who know each other from different shows. But she probably would fit as well as dozens of characters I don't really care about, wherever they've come from until I see them on the show, which this will most likely be. I doubt Alison Mack would be interested and if they "reinvisioned" her then they might just as well have FS guest star a few times since that's what people would be comparing her to anyway, even though the actresses have played the characters completely different.

It's probably someone I can't remember, don't care about or have never heard of but that does mean they won't get a good actor or a decent storyline. I have often liked Matt Letscher but I never regarded him much as RF until this season, TC had a lot of the great bits but he has really come in to his own here, even though his screen time is limited. I so hope both of those I mentioned show up again though, we need more recurring women on the ship at least, especially since Sara and Amaya are still fairly weary of each other and rarely talk.

Well I think either Lily or Gideon (Android/hologram etc) are possible. Either Stein leaves because he wants to spend more time with Lily and finds a replacement for himself and Gideon happens (probably not Firestorm though) or he dies and Lily takes over in his honour as Jax did for Ronnie. Both girls have been well received IMO. I think Amaya is a possible since it seems Nate is staying and it will give him a mopey arc for a while. I hope not as I like there and there is a possibility that she will rewrite Mari's future with the Spear as Barry has done with FlashPoint. Possibility of Ray as Nate is a similar character and BR could probably relay "not getting his own spin off but doing well on LOT" into getting a pilot next season (although nothing so obvious as this season yet). I don't think it will be Rip as they went to considerable lengths to accommodate AD and he's proven very versatile as Evil! and Director!Rip Probably they won't off Sara again and it's doubtful she'll sail off into the sunset but you never know. Mick, I really hope not as DP is a MVP this season, beyond whatever I could have thought when Mick joined Flash. Edit Rachel Dawes so they get the chance to redo "we made DLL Rachel Dawes?" Although she'd be more useless on this show than Arrow. They don't give a shit about any laws. Eh, I'm not combing the movies and TV shows and Comics to get a short list, I'll just wait. I'm more interested in who is leaving although I would laugh my ass off if Chloe showed up.

Definitely! And DW rips off another episode regularly (often they even say " Oh No! Not This Again! (insert threat here)" They Have Arthur Darvil and Time Travel, it would be worse if they didn't use that. And The Ship's Crew also has some other characters which are fantastic.

Apparently I'm with Team Doom on this one, especially as they do put the spear together.

I wonder if Doomworld will last until "Aruba" and if this "re writing of reality" is connected to Laurel's appearance? Or God help us that they use it as an excuse to have her alive again for real. The personalised punishments for the Idiots sound "fun" as does the fact that Mick Rory is the Only You Can Save Reality character, although its really not surprising given his arc in the last few episodes. I'd guess the 2nd, since Mick is under no illusions about the team, he agrees with Thawn that they are all a bunch of idiots. But he stays anyway.

SpoilerTV just updated quoting EW as saying he was filling in for someone else during the read through (other sources said he has a connection to someone who works there.) I'm not sure what's true. If he had been secretly cast, why would a producer tweet a photo of him? It's possible if he has been cast that he's only in the pilot or he's in 2nd position, meaning if TO gets S5 he'd have to be recast on the X Men show but the producers have been letting the cast audition because the future is uncertain. Wouldn't they just announce if it had been secretly cancelled? They weren't shy about TVD or Reign.

So first Doctor Who went Full on "Doctor/TARDIS" and now Rory has gone Full On Rip/Gideon?

I did wonder when they brought in Lily if Stein/VG was going to retire or die heroically. I don't know. I agree that I don't think BG sounded ecstatic with his new role but he has been in the "firestorm role" since 2014 and signed on as an ensemble. An lets not forget Spydaddy was good TV by hardly less cheesy for 5 seasons. He has got a more emotional storyline these season, both in individual episodes "Stein signs Edelwiess to Nazi and is captured by them" to his growing physic companionship with Jax and then Lily". He's got plenty of arcs this season and I think he's a great character, but if he really does want to leave as opposed to speculation good luck to him. I hope BR doesn't heave because as much as I thought him annoying in Arrow I like him so much more here. 2-7 minutes of screentime probably wasn't what he though he was going to get when he first signed up for an Arrow/Iron Man Spin Off but its regular work and he's showing his comic chops again.

There go my "oh its so easy for a crossover of Lucifer/Supergirl" dreams;) Apart from the fact that it's set in LA, not connected to the Arrowverse at all and won a tax credit (yes three good reasons) is there an actual reason why they decided to apply for it in the first place, what with most DC shows being in BC, albeit this is on FOX not the CW. Sounds good though, that FOX is very invested in the show.

Oh it did, for ever, or it felt like forever since they threw every single thing they could think of to keep them apart (at least one conflict included actual kitchen sinks) whilst not going back on Lois knowing Clark= Superman. And for real the episode when they finally got married was officially named "Swear to God, This Time We're Not Kidding" which I recently found out on IMDB.

It is possible that they are setting it up for Prometheus to come out on top and be revealed as the Grand Chess Master but I still don't think I'll care that much. Oliver has had adversaries who've tried twisted games and all the writers came up with was WTF? with charismatic actors so I'm not holding out hope of a coherent explanation for why this season his "even more extra idiot Oliver" without many of the bits that make it worth watching live. Which is why a lot of people aren't.

Yep. Oliver has been dumb as a stoned box of rocks before but at least you could see some life in his adversaries or "allies" like Helena, Slade, Malcolm, Cheesy Mc Gossip Al Ghul etc. What the writers thought they were going for and what actually appeared on screen didn't always match up but at least John Barrowman is hanging around devouring entire sets, let alone scenery (as he is currently doing to good affect on LOT). With Susan, meh. Oliver just looks bored and yes for the love of god CHEM TESTS, this is making Tyler Ritter look good by comparison. Maybe they're hoping it's so bland that we sigh with relief when he and Tinah get together next season, even if the chemistry isn't great? That is if anyone is still tuning in after this snooze fest. A few dates is one thing but I just can't see another reason why they've chosen to hang their hat on this relationship this year, and no I don't think it's "because Prometheus manipulated him to" is a good answer.

I do feel kind of bad for SA since the writing is truly terrible here and he's had to resort to whakadoodle explanations when he used to be so unabashedly positive about OQ. Hey remember *why* your relationship with Felicity ended? This Susan storyline is above all boring, chemistry and sense lacking. It's dumber than the time Oliver slept with Isabel since at least he thought they were nominally "partners". Hell its dumber than the time he blew up his relationship with Laurel by taking her sister on a weeks long trip to China since he was a douchey kid who had never killed tons of people to protect his secrets. it's dumber than the time he slept with Laurel after encouraging Tommy to fight for her. It's dumber than the time he lied to Felicity about William because at least (very least) you could argue he was so emotional about the idea of having a son. And also its boring.

The fact that the Flarrowverse is even touting a competition over Neithreally!Comic Leadership is a good thing. Felicity says more than 2 words disagreeing with Oliver and "oh hell it's Fn'F/how dare you" (CL has also said that she was glad to be WC rather than deal with "ok so you're *Sara* Lance Not *Dinah* go away") but they but this out in the press release as a plotline, which hopefully means two actors who have been giving it all this season will get some storyline, especially as they both have experience of being brainwashed and Sarah can now say that she's been killed (supposedly) 3 times on the orders of MM. They worked well in S1 and Sarah has worked as a captain. Given CL popularity and the fact that they did come up with a fantastic plotline for AD without letting him go I would definitely hope they both stay on. No she didn't have powers or Ted Grant but she did have credibility. I hope LL and SL have a good scene or two, I didn't really buy their scenes in either S2 or LL's desperation to revive her after more than a year, though I suppose many might. I hope they have closure and that KC isn't a regular or much of a guest going on forward. I know the 'Verse is already messed up but "We fired Caity Lotz as Canary so Katie Cassidy could take the mantle she'd been promised. A few months later we realised Routh couldn't anchor a show and we resurrected Caity as White Canary, later on that season they killed off Katie Cassidy as Black Canary (as we might have been asking for for years) and were immediately told to find another Black Canary "Dinah Drake" (apparently no relation) who is expected to take on the mantle of BC instead of a new name because DCE is anxious?

I think eventually Rip realised that Sara was a good heir/spare as a captain and Jax was a good mechanic and brighter than he (Jax) knew and therefore the best bet of all of them to try to learn how to repair the ship if necessary. Don't forget that in Raiders, Ray said that Gideon did a most of the work anyway (which will now come back to bite them in the arse). Ray could probably do more but they are clearly more interested in either linking him with a lady or trying to find a bromance that works (Jax already has a very sweet and improving one). I think in many ways Sara was Rips Captain apprentice (which is why they voted for her) but that certainly doesn't mean she can fix the ship or give medical advice. Star Trek anyone? I think this show does the best job in the Flarrowverse of balancing a brilliant team of characters and actors for some obvious reasons, even more so that many of them were already names in their own right when cast.

I did wonder that at first when I realised Arthur Darvill had been given a leave of absence for Broadchurch. But Nate so quickly forgot that he was an historian that I ended up dismissing it and going with "THEY NEED MORE MASKS" that is the focus of a lot of the Flarrowverse this season. I know it has changed a bit since then but one of the episodes had him lamenting that having to do research was like being in school all over again. Even Ray at his most annoying convincingly loves technology and how it can help him be a hero etc. A nerd with super powers is fine, a nerd who was forced to be a nerd because his body wasn't strong enough until now but now wants to be a JOCK /SUPERHERO is interesting but someone one who instantly transforms into a mix of Oliver Queen and Ray Palmer without much of a storyline and actively poo pooing the work that is why he is still aboard will probably never be my favourite character even if he is better than Male Hawk.

Taking into account non scientific data such as trending, general fandom presence, cons etc I think people who like Felicity generally outweigh those who do not. That doesn't mean they stop watching if there is no Olicity (although some do) or consider themselves "Stans" but I think in general more people seem to like her rather than dislike her and certainly outnumber the people who call her "Felishitty" for example. The network has market data on all their regular actors and generally knows who's popular (not that that always translates into action on anything). Despite "ONLY DLL can be BC!" KC has been back for all of 2 episodes so far (one of which was the 100th which is almost a rite of passage if possible) and she was replaced with *another* BC, nothing against KC but that really makes it seem they didn't want her back except to make them open to Tinah. That said every forum/tumblr can be an echo chamber and everyone hears what they want to hear including me. There is a thread on IMDb and I've seen on other places asking why they can't get rid of Felicity because she is clearly one of the most hated characters on TV and every article they've read agrees. YMMV indeed.

I think some people have genuinely enjoyed the season because they like the "mess of masks" and little romance etc better than previous seasons. Some probably don't like it as much as they claim but still prefer it over S4, others have started completely trashing 5b because they've realised they aren't getting LL back and don't like Tinah, others love her because of her name or eye candy, others like her "because at least she's not Felicity" etc. People saying this is their favourite season of Arrow do sometimes make me wonder why they watched the other 4 years though. I haven't seen the quote but I might hazard a guess that some people advocating the "Ollie"/Tinah/Diggle line up would be people who ideally want Felicity to be killed off or have 2 lines and episode. Tinah is still ok (so far) because she's badass, a bit sultry and currently "knows her place" whereas Felicity is still trying to steal Oliver's show or his manhood or whatever because she is doing things without running everything in her life by him, though when they did spend time together last season that was apparently the worst thing ever. Diggle of course is allowed to critique Oliver more because he's a guy and barely in the show now. Wow that was bitter wasn't it. YMMV on all of it.

Is Black Lightening likely to be an all Black cast? I ask because isn't that a 1st for the CW (although not UPN pre merger)? Ditto having someone 40-50's as the lead character.