Featherhat

I'd rather no one get married in the crossover and I remain sceptical that any couple that *does* get married so early in the season is potentially in for a lot of angst in the back half ala Olicity's engagement in 4.09.

I remember it being mentioned either in an interview or in someone's transcript at a con that she auditioned. I haven't seen any footage of it or anything but since I think she's a good actress who even as batshit insane Cupid has better chemistry with SA and other characters in general, I think it's possible she could have made it work. Of course they'd still have the horrible backstory hampering it but that didn't stop it from being popular on TVD and other shows. I definitely think someone else being cast might have saved it, CL made Sara my favourite character and I would never have thought that after the pilot and the backstory, but I love Felicity so I'm glad KC forced them to change course. Sara might still have been Ravager if there was a popular LL or Lauriver and Tommy might have stayed to become the Dark Archer in that continued triangle.

I was mostly joking, because we're all speculating on an Olicity date in an episode where it doesn't seem BS is interacting very much with Oliver (yay for both those things for me) so I was thinking how morbidly ironic it would be if it was a E1 or E2 LL/Oliver on a date. I don't think it will be, just throwing out a worse case scenario.

I think they just started out with kinda generic (though often bright) "quirky office chic" and since she's an IT nerd they put her in glasses and ponytail. Luckily it suited EBR and the character. She made the character a lot more than she was on the script page for 1x03, so she became popular and people started thinking about it as a distinctive look on Arrow and referencing it has "her" look when characters on other shows used it, including pilot Kara. I don't know if it was EBR's shirt and I don't remember if the script references her look, although IIRC it does describe her a bit and again it's not really the character that she almost instantly became. If another actress had played it straight she probably wouldn't have had more than a few guest spots here and there. It is one of those scenes that makes me want to have been in on the casting sessions or looking at audition tapes, same with other LLs including Amy G who plays Cupid.

Could be anyone I guess, including platonic couples/groups, hell even a flashback to Laurel/Oliver on a date if they were so inclined to put that cat among the pigeons. In theory 1st date part 2 makes sense given that it literally got blown up and they're supposedly not jumping straight into living together again etc. I think SA could be back in time for it, it would be unusual if he got basically the whole episode off, but it would be kinda amusing if the biggest BS appearance to date has Olicity actually on a date. Dinah might be too soon but they don't *have* drag things out, especially for 2nd/3rd string romances. Are we sure it's a new character she's supposed to be seeing?

I'm still going to give it a shot, but definitely not in IMAX. The trailers managed to make the sets and the costumes look cheap and what was shown of the storyline and dialogue so far doesn't seem that interesting.

I kind of get what I think they wanted to do with Nate (if I am generous). The guy did say he's idolised his grandfather his whole life and begged Sara to join the team when they didn't know anything about him. i'd actually have liked if he'd said Oliver had said he should be on the team just to see Sara's face, because it wasn't even *her* team then and he's one that still freaks out at everyone he doesn't personally approve. Being a haemophiliac might actually have been interesting for a few episodes, rather than just getting the serum immediately after. And seriously, I'd have liked to see some hestitancy from Sara at least due to the so similar Mirakuru. It killed Ray's fiancée though I guess he may never have known enough about the circumstances of its creation to worry. After that he became 90% a bro dude making fun of "the nerd squad" etc. News Flash, you didn't get a spot on this mission (via Oliver) because he thought you looked ripped. You got it because you were willing to yell at the most famous person in Star City that his friends (whom a lot of people may not have known were still his friends or even alive) were in trouble because you were a "time detective". Yeah it may have been a 2nd choice career, but you were lucky those names meant enough for him to speak to you. Ray Palmer wants nothing more than to be a hero but still thinks of himself as a scientist/inventor/genius etc as well. Their "sibling rivalry" sort of brought out the worst in them both. And it can't be saod enough, you are a PDH that's hundreds of thousands of Dollars and at least a decade of your life. It Matters, whatever you go though. Sara at the fery least still calls on her LOA training even when she doesn't want to kill people and she still knows Arabic and Mandarin. Almost everyone else did embrace their knowledge whilst he went away from it. They were trying so hard to make Nate happen after loosing Snart and Rip (well for a large part of the season) but it was really Mick that picked up the slack without seeming to try (and despite DP also filming Nu!PB) I don't hate Nate and he's better than a lot of similar characters in different shows but like Ray and other characters in their first season in the Flarrowverse they tried to throw the kitchen sink at him. Oh, I somehow missed that but it makes sense given the likeness, not having to cast another actor and giving BR something else to do, looking forward to it.

Yeah way to prove Oliver doesn't actually care about actual Laurel but can swap her out with a doppelganger and all's good. It still wouldn't mean E1 LL got a happy ending and Oliver got to reconnect with his first love. She'd probably be furious that someone else "stole her life" again ala Sara. Although given her SWFing Sara, cosmic justice. I guess if you were more of a fan of KC not necessarily attached to LL, dislike FS or simply desperate for a "BC"/GA romance she might be 2nd best. Plus from my POV they still have anti chemistry and make SA do the constipated face. KC still doesn't work playing a good girl and IMO still doesn't have the subtlety to play "slowly reforming" or "greyhat" characters or different versions of the same character ala Harrison Wells and if they were going to reform her they might just as well have had Sara pick her up and have Gideon cure her injuries slot her back in as another 4th stringer on TA and have done with it rather than go to the bother and controversy of casting another new BC, giving her DD's name and making her a regular. I know it's early in the season but the fact that she seems to have been filming her biggest episode to date when we know SA doesn't seem to have been doing much is not a big sign that "Oliver is desperate to redeem/hook up with her" is currently high on the agenda (with these writers who knows though). Oh god, please, please not like Malcolm. Re: BIB twice, three times if you count an almost death in LOT and has never shown any remorse for any of it. And re Tommy, that's one of the reasons I never bought what Malcolm was saying about loving and protecting Thea, even before he deliberately sicced Ra's on her for his own ends and never thought Oliver should use "because he's Thea's father" for any reason than to keep them as far apart as possible. Dude got both his kids killed and has never given a monkey's about Tommy's death, not even as the only child of the woman he was so obsessive about he planned the Undertaking in revenge. Slade as the occasional reluctant ally/antagonist/ex brother could be good, MB is very watchable in the role despite online assishness usually can't separate very well, but not if he's the new MM.

Interesting. As I said upthread, whilst she's not the originator of the "gorgeous It genius or even of her look, it's awesome that she's one of the big go to comparisons for potentially similar characters and as in the cast of Inhumans, almost certainly inspired the character's look as well (and definitely Kara's pilot look but that's not surprising given Berlanti's involvement.

Well that worked out really well for LOT last season but it seems a bit early in the season to do a full on Legion of Doom episode.

I never thought I'd say this before LOT started but I'm actually looking forward to seeing Ray's childhood. I wonder if his family was always wealthy, he kind of acted like it in Arrow but maybe not. Seems like most of the team is wasn't particularly great, (ironically Sara probably had one of the most stable childhoods in the Flarrowverse that we know about.) Since his brother looked exactly like him in season 1 does that mean BR gets to play twins?

Oliver and Lance deserves to be in any S5 poll over Oliver/BS, you know considering they had an actual season long storyline together not two scenes. S3 Lance would rather have shot himself than attend Oliver Queen's birthday party, let alone the S1 version. If Oliver and BS have any significant scenes together next year that would be the time to include them.

Yeah that kind of annoyed me last year. I get why they wanted to end the crossover on Barry and Oliver, and I did like Sara and Oliver's hug and acknowledgement that their shitty Gambit related decision had set all this in motion but I wish they'd ended on the Waverider crew not Barry and Oliver getting a beer. And this is coming from someone who watches Arrow and likes Barry and Oliver's relationship. Personally I think all big ships should get married/any other big developments on their own shows and not get lost in the shuffle of a EPIC 4 Night Event. Plus I would have thought the Arrow EPs would want to promote it for their own ratings and buzz if/when it happens. And if it happens so early in the season there's a high chance that something will go wrong later on see: previous engagement/deaths. I'm even kind of sceptical about WA making it down the aisle or being happy for any length of time in early S4 of what could end up going 10+ seasons, but who knows. It's very possible. That would agree with the discussions that the actors are given leeway on how comfortable in playing certain scenes they are and that a lot of Olicity's touching is down to the actors not the directors. I think GG has all kinds of chemistry with a lot of people on the 4 shows but none of it is actually sexual chemistry so that might be part of it as well. E.g. (not WA example) He and Kara are sweet but if they were in a universe bending relationship they'd simply cuddle, watch TV and eat constantly together. It's just the fact that it seems to be in play for all couples on The Flash/Supergirl that makes me think it's also a tonal choice as well. And also this. It was weird that is wasn't even properly confirmed even if they didn't want to make a big thing about it for whatever reasons. Teenage relationship Kara/Mon-El got more than they did, though romance was a much bigger part of Supergirl than The Flash this season anyway. I don't mind talking WA or crossover storylines here, I am slightly concerned that a wedding and especially a double wedding would happen at the end meaning LOT's portion. If this happens for WA I can imagine a lot of their fans being upset. Although since it's Flash and they kinda ran the crossover last year, I guess its more likely to happen in their episode in the middle of whatever crisis

I don't think it's because of an interracial issue. Eddie and Iris had the "raciest" scene on the Flash in S1, and by that I mean they were in bed and she was sitting on his legs whilst trying to get him to stay in longer IRRC. For whatever reason they don't seem to want to go even there with WestAllen or any other pairings. Slightly inferring some super powered sex either there or on Supergirl is light years away from the sex scenes on Arrow. They let them be a bit more graphic, probably because it does have a darker tone and started out with a sister swapping sex scene in the pilot etc. LOT references sex a fair bit but I don't think we ever see that much, Sara/Queen of France had some fully clothed um rolling around and Nate/Amaya wasn't as graphic as Arrow either.

What a surprise everything that isn't in the comics is"lackluster " not like GA/BC or WestAllen, despite people begging for Iris to actually have more than 2 mins an episode and Lauriver never bring together when she was BecauseComics and their relationship before that being a melodramatic clusterfuck. Even if the writers throw characters together because they're single, so what? It makes just as much sense as "just because comics". But Ollie Queen's life in the comics is just as much if not more of a soap opera. More than 1 child from several mothers, womanising, a tumultuous on-off relationship with a younger woman etc. As for the shows should be "just about fighting bad guys" welcome to TV and (some) growth. I know for a fact both Green Arrow and Flash have done more than stop "baddies" in comic canon. LOT is an original team up featuring some C/D comic characters and some new so you can't really say what they should be. It doesn't strike me as overly soapy, in fact it has the least romance and the most lean into the campy comic-y attitude. The romance is mostly in the background except for a few episodes and things like Sara and Rip wanting to save their loved ones or swearing revenge are *definitely* a part of comics. But its probably for the best he finds something else to enjoy because if the increase in masks and noromo! In 5a wasn't good enough I doubt Arrow is going to do more than that at this stage. Re Louise, I know FS wasn't the originator of the trope by any means but I certainly think they're using her as a sort of template, if only because she's the best example of it working beyond what anyone would have thought on TV today.

There's no indication anywhere right now that LOT is in danger of being cancelled, no articles warning its ratings will have to improve and nothing in the EPs interviews that indicates they're worried or budgeting trimming even more than they already do for all the shows. They haven't dumped any actors that didn't want to be let go and are actually expanding the regulars and recurring cast and looking to use more CGI. Whilst it may be expensive having 6 less episodes than the rest of the DC line up helps with that and there are actors/characters, like Stein, they could loose to make it cheaper if necessary, or cut back to 13 episodes like The CW's expensive but fairly low rated The 100 and others (don't know how expensive iZombie is). The show garnered big majority positive to rave reviews last season and though that doesn't mean anything much in terms of renewal it is in a different place than it was at the beginning of the season re being the red headed step child of the group and has a reputation as "character rehab" now "send your problematic characters but well liked actors here and we'll make people enjoy them!" Not saying that things couldn't change during next season e.g. BL being a smashing success and getting 23 episodes and a bigger budget in a potential S2 or suddenly getting permission to do a high profile character etc, but nothing indicates an issue so far. Especially not just the potential for The Huntress to come back for an episode in S6, which they've wanted and not gotten several times before. There's no indication that DC/WB would be interested in a BOP on the CW when they suddenly have interest on the big screen for female superheroes (finally) or that it would be worth cancelling a known product for. And I have a feeling someone at the CW would insist on having BS/KC in there, so no thank you. That said I do expect a few more female lead action/superhero premises to be popping up at least at the pilot stage next season, which will be nice and it's possible DC would give them a less high profile heroine to use despite MPs annual "no more comic shows" recently. That or Berlanti will once again pitch something like that to CBS or FOX. It will be interesting to see how all the new comic book/superhero shows do this season as there are quite a few now.

Felicity may not be the originator of the trope but all these articles stating "a Felicity Smoak vibe" about attractive blonde geniuses with glasses shows that she's the current go to template and pop culture character. S3 wasn't kind to Felicity in many ways but seriously Laurel hadn't been a factor in 2 seasons by the time they got together. Oliver and *Sara* had had much more of a relationship and way better understanding of each other by that time. I get the BC thing but how is it ship teasing if lauriver barely interact whilst he's angst in over someone else? What he's going to see her buckles and beg her for another chance. The show was actually fairly clear about where they stood even if Oli city's drive off into the sunset shocked some comics fans. And yeah mocking "shippers" whilst writing BC/GA 4EVA! never not funny.

Eh, Inhumans doesn't seem that interesting from everything so far. I'm certainly not going to get IMAX tickets for it, sorry. We've seen it all before and it's fine but not at spectacle *or* something appointment TV.

Possibly they aren't considered on topic, can I repost in the MYS thread, because I'm actually interested in the topic?

Yeah she was likely Yeah she was likely either a daughter or niece. I just thought maybe they'd have gone with some version of comics Canon and made a Jean Loring Jr, which would also satisfy these writers apparent need to create some pairings keeping it all in the family ala Sara and Laurel and Barry and Iris being foster siblings etc. The plus side is we might have gotten more Teryl Rothery.

Yeah that's what I thought of. True, although if they wanted to they could always ignore it or say she meant she knew she was also attracted to men due to Marc Singer. I doubt they will though and I hope they don't since it's almost the only thing they haven't used from Sara and pasted on to later Canaries (apart from Syn) not that Sara has to be the only bisexual person in the Flarrowverse. The role doesn't sound like it needs to be a love interest, plenty of cop antagonists in roles like this aren't. I guess it depends on the state of everyone's relationships as her character develops. Though anyone who dates the FBI agent investigating Oliver/GA is as dumb as Oliver dating the reporter investigating him/covering City Hall. I guess he did also date McKenna who was on the anti Hood task force but his cover was a lot less shaky then and Diggle was allowed to point out how dumb it was. And it only went on 2 episodes or so.

I'd rather they not use that line, even if it is comics canon because it is a genuinely awful line and the outcry they'd get would make the 100 stuff seem like minor fan grumbling. Plus Sara isn't a lesbian so he would be factually incorrect as well. I really hope they get him though, especially if they acknowledge his bisexuality. Sara didn't have a chance to talk with him (or practically anyone else) in S4 of Arrow. But MR is a very busy man. Well they could have her meet up and flirt with a version of Snart/hook up with a 1 episode man or just talk about her previous history with Oliver and other men (she's mentioned a carjacking high school boyfriend before). Not looking forward to a Ray romance plot since BR is not usually at his best in them, although I liked the small scene flirting with Lily Stein last season. I guess a less stalkery/crazy eyes Ray would work with a hacktivist genius that isn't in love with someone else. I did wonder what the writers had planned for a potential Ray spin off in terms of family/ love interests so it will be interesting to see his past and maybe brother. Knowing these writers one of his LI's would have been Jean Loring sister/cousin of his tragically murdered fiancée Anna Loring who we saw for 5 seconds in S1. I liked DD last season but I'm not a big fan of him returning as a regular. He was wearing out his welcome a lot on Arrow by the end of S4. Lets hope he's not the only player in town (Time Bureau being antagonists not villains). Looking forward to Kuasa and Mari and Amaya dealing with that and not just her romance with Nate.

If Zari's religion is treated as any other aspect of a character's background/worldview/personality informing their interactions and reactions then it should be fine. IF they try to make it a big deal like some of the above plots I can see it potentially being problematic. I don't think it will though, the show is even less set up to handle that than the others. . LOT completely glossed over the religious/social etc implications of the Spear and the Blood of Christ (thankfully). Even Martin the Rabbi didn't bat an eyelid. I guess they could have the Arabic, semi Arabic culture knowledgeable Sara play a part in it if it does become a storyline. Zari being from the future and a hacktivist should also be a large part of her character, especially in contrast to the from the past Amaya who may be trying to change her destiny and will be dealing with finding out her legacy. One of the most interesting things about Thawne was the to him none of their lives really mattered because they'd already been dead over nearly 200 years, I wonder if that will have any impact on her. Are we sure Ray is Jewish? I know he was in the comics but they haven't said anything on the shows, except maybe for him finding himself completely unable to Heil Hitler. Sure, but if he didn't work out I'm sure they'd have found a way to replace him or have him leave Earth for good due to the poisoning. You can get told your arc for as many years as you like and sign a contract saying the same but be dumped at any point. But clearly that didn't happen. Chris Wood has been a CW actor for a while now so I'm sure they were eager to find him a regular role. His character is a bit polarising but he has enough fan support and network support for them to keep going with him.

My problem with Supergirl and the "political" storylines isn't so much that they exist, because I understand the writers feel they have a platform and it's certainly not a new thing for TV shows to do this. My problem is the writers act like kids who've just taken their first social studies course and just discovered all these issues exist and were running around, jumping up and down yelling about Big Important Stuff. Sometimes as in the case of the global warming episode, they completely stop the plot just to make sure you've got the message. But it's written in such a way that I can't imagine it changing anyone's mind and it ends up annoying people who *do* agree with them. It also doesn't help (for me personally) that they had an interesting storyline last year about how the media shapes perceptions of people, with Cat literally feeling she created Supergirl and could destroy her if she wanted to. I know they lost Cat but it's a much more topical storyline for James than running around as a wannabe 3rd rate Oliver Queen Likewise with the Arrow gun control PSA. Arrow was probably the wrong show for it in the first place, but the characters sat around debating it, not bringing any of their character's experiences from the show into it ala Felicity in a way that might be interesting and showcase their characters as more than mouth pieces spouting the same old arguments someone copied and pasted from blandtalkingpointsrus.org. Then they write the most meaningless piece of legislation that satisfies and helps no one. The End. And it's never brought up again. It's how they tend to write these things that's the problem.

So probably the other half the abandoned Susan Williams storyline?