adora721

The level of blandness with Cisco and Kamilla's supposed great love has increased beyond my tolerance. There's nothing genuine about, "He's the love of your life" or "I'm doing this to help the person I care about most.". None of those words ring true to what's been shown on screen. Talk about telling but not showing.... Ugh! No one believes it, Eric. For the umpteenth time, why are people apologizing to Killer Frost who has yet to apologize to the women she tried to murder and has yet to apologize to Kamilla for trashing her photography at the art exhibit life coach Ralph took her to? Killer Frost acts likes she's a dangerous child throwing tantrums about nonexistent problems and Ralph has to pacify her by telling her she's just as important as Caitlin. When will she actually grow up and be worthy of that Dib-ploma?!

Robbie Amell, former Ronnie Raymond, stars in the Amazon Prime series, "Upload."

I actually think that's why CP should have hustled more to get other short stints elsewhere or even do a major commercial spot for a major brand. Because she isn't privileged and becaue she doesn't have the same level of security as others, that's why CP should have done more. I'm not laying it all at her feet. I'm sure holding on to her spot was hard. I'm just saying having more than one iron in the fire never hurts. Now, with the quarantine, there's less opportunity to do other things even though there's now lots of time. I've been reading a few articles in Callback Magazine; it's a new online mag focused on acting in Canada, but there are applications to the US as well. One common thread amongst the actors is constantly trying to stay busy and finding new opportunities in part because there's so much competition and because of the instability of the career until you've reached a certain level. I'm not blaming it all on CP. Just saying she needs to remember that there will be a life after The Flash, and she should be planting some seeds now if she wants to do more after this show is done.

I can only say that Marc G. wasn't a fan of KC based on how Laurel was treated and since Felicity was his "creation", it makes sense how things went down. With Marc and Berlanti both on board with the EBR change, I don't think AJK could overrule those two.

I suspect this was because the showrunnner prefered EBR. The showrunner has a ton of influence over the writing on the show. In S2, CP has exactly 12 words in the episode that started the crossover. I suspect that was just to fulfill the contractual obligation, but then Iris wasn't shown again during the rest of the crossover of S2. However, DP was in every episode of every crossover except for the S6 crossover. Why? Different showrunner in S6. AJK and Todd both seemed to favor DP, whether that was because of the contract or just preference, CP got the short end of the stick for a long time until things started improving a bit in S5 with Todd and now Eric.

Per AJK, about killing Eddie, "This wasn’t always the plan, but it was always a possibility. " Exactly, and the fact that AJK's wife was DP's agent. I used to wonder the same, but now I also wonder if CP is just not that motivated. Obviously, she cares a lot about her role on the show and how it affects the future of WOC in media. However, I not sure she's that determined to do more outside of the Flash for her career except for magazine articles and stumping for Shethority from time to time. When asked, CP has said she doesn't have time to work on other projects because of her filming this show. However, that seems like a flimsy reason when you consider how little screen time she had in the earlier seasons when DP was being treated like the lead actress. With streaming services and their shows, I think that CP could squeeze in something else during hiatus, but she just doesn't want to do that for whatever reason. Brandon Routh did a guest appearance on "Blackish" in 2019, and he had like less than 5 minutes of screen time. Come on! You're telling me CP couldn't have done the same to give herself exposure on a major network like Disney-owned ABC?!

Candice interview article, "The Ma'am in the Mirror: Candice Patton on That Fatal 'Flash' Moment"

For some reason the pacing was weird to me, but lent itself to making this episode seem more like a movie thriller. I echo others who thought the Siri/Barry fight was great! For once, Nash did not annoy me. Not really happy Bloodwork is back. I'm hoping that Allegra's light powers will do away with Bloodwork once and for all. I'm hoping that Caitlin/Killer Frost's mom will play a part in their season 7 arc as a new ice meta. Susan Walters, the actress who plays her mom is a rather good actress and can sell evil ice meta well. I feel bad for Cisco. Mirror Kamilla had no reservations killing herself, which would leave her "beloved" Cisco devastated after losing Cynthia. Just goes to show how feeble the Cisco/Kamilla "love story" really is and it's not believable as being true love.

Thanks for that information about how Amanda made the writing for Carter work on SG-1. Carter was fabulous! I met Amanda at a convention years ago; really great person! I haven't seen her direct, however. I hope she's just as good as she was at acting.

Here's a lovely article praising Candice and Iris West-Allen as the heart of the Flash from Netflixlife.

Mirror Kamilla was in the first scene when the West-Allens were all playing charades at Joe's house.

No Caitlin or Killer Frost is an unexpected and awesome gift! I'm kinda glad Joe is gone, but without killing him off. I also loved that he rememberd to ask Barry to tell Iris he loved her. Joe often acts as if Barry is his highest priority. I was hoping David Singh wasn't secretly working for Carver, but I'm glad he's working for Eva. I don't know why, but I still kinda trust Eva. I wonder if Iris' itch is an indication that she too will start having the ability to control the Mirrorverse. Where is Eva storing the real Kamilla and Singh? Seems like Eva is building an army of mirror people to take down Carver. Is this the first time Cisco and Ralph have teamed up? I'm still not warming up to Sue, and I'm not sure why. I don't worry that WestAllen will divorce or anything like that. I wish MirrorIris would tell Barry and Team Flash some more truths about themselves, but she went too far by bringing up Barry's parents. Everything else she said was based in reality though, which is why it stings. Overall, a better episode than expected.

It would seem out of nowhere for Cait and Killer Frost to just leave Central City. The writing brought up the use of cold to escape from the Mirror World and that it doesn't work like last time. It seems likely that KF and Cait will get stuck in the mirror after Iris, Kamilla, and Eva escape.

There's some news that Logan Williams who first played the young Barry Allen has died at age 16. How awful😭 ETA: Variety has an article on his death now, too, but no mention of the cause of death.

Sorry to say, but everything - "we are the flash", "Nora West-Allen", COIE, compliments to Iris, etc. - becomes about Team Flash. I don't expect anything different this time.

First, the main OTP couple should always be heavy on romance. Like I said in another thread, CW shows are very much invested in their main OTPs having a romantic thread season after season. Why is WestAllen different? Second, the writers having no interest implies that it's the writers that make the decision. No; it's not the writers who get to decide what topics, arcs, or plots develop on the show. Its the showrunner and also producers who determine these things and the writers write accordingly. The writers don't control the show. They write what they are told to write. Ironically, some writers have mentioned adding WestAllen romantic content, but were told to remove it by the previous showrunners. So, the writers know that an OTP should have romantic content, but were overruled. Consider how Candice wanted to show her natural hair on the show for years. She said she asked the showrunners not the writers to write a scene for it. It was the showrunner, Eric, who told the writers to write a scene that made sense for Iris to wear her natural hair. It's the same with adding reference to Black dishes/soul foods in the premiere episode. The showrunner told the writers to mention those.

Well, I do prefer assumptions based on some evidence. Thanks for the debate.

Warner Brothers is aiming to compete with streaming services like Netflix with its own streaming service called HBOMax, which hasn't launched yet. To give you the potential revenue for a streaming service, Netflix makes $950 million per month from subscriptions alone. "Yes, Netflix rakes in nearly $1 billion every single month, putting their annual total revenue above $11 billion." Please read the various financial grosses of recent WB movies. The article was written before the dismal returns of "Birds of Prey." If WB is successful, their streaming service might be like making one "Joker" movie per month. Netflix has, ... 167 million subscribers worldwide and 60 million in the US. " What CW TV show has an audience of 60 million viewers? And clearly not enough people are going to WB movies in the theaters because the box office returns are abysmal. WB has to convince its current audience to sign up for yet another subcription service in May 2020. Therefore, it's smart business sense to please the CW TV show audience, especially the audience of its most successful show, The Flash. They are writing to keep as many eyes on their show as possible, which means feeding as much of the audience as possible, even if it doesn't fully satisfy each faction. Here we are complaining and yet we continue to watch. So, it makes sense that the haters who still enjoy the show despite WestAllen also continue to watch. TPTB liking WestAllen doesn't mean they don't want to make money by making as much of the audience happy as possible. Some fans complained about too much WestAllen romance, and therefore, they write a minimal amount of romance for the WestAllen shippers. Some fans complained that they miss OTF, and so they write a few OTF episodes, and they have written (though not anymore) some SB shipbaiting scenes for those outliers. Fans complained about Iris being in Star Labs and not having her own reporter story, so they wrote that (finally). There are people at each studio who are highly paid to dig into the details of each show, movie, and fandom. Consider what happened when Danai Gurira's name was absent from the movie poster for "Avengers: Endgame". Fans complained online and, voila, the poster was redone. Now, based on your logic, the detail of her missing name shouldn't have mattered to the studio, especially since Danai's picture was on the poster. However, that detail mattered to the fans and therefore, it mattered to someone at Marvel to correct the problem. Since WB wants to compete with Marvel, I suspect they're paying someone a lot of money to mind the details also. Then there was the fan backlash over the design of Sonic the Hedgehog; the director and Paramount redesigned Sonic because of the fans. "When it came to Sonic, Paramount took drastic measures to redress audience expectations, pushing the film’s release back by nearly a year and giving the go-ahead to an expensive, soup-to-nuts retrofitting of the character’s biodynamics in a bid to silence those who saw the trailer as a “200 mph slap in the face.” ETA: Here's a video of Robert Downey Jr mentioning that Marvel has really listened to the fans and its audience; starts at 1:34. If WB wants to replicate any of Marvel's success, they're gonna try to do likewise, IMO.

Or the person who needs to be gone for maternity leave. Just saying.... It'll only be temporary if Killer Frost is trapped in the mirrorverse, but we know cold won't work to get her out. Cisco will work on freeing her/them over the hiatus; that's my prediction.

As I said earlier, one of the possible reasons for the lack of WestAllen romance is catering to the more negative (bigoted) factions of the fandom who have never stopped complaining after all these years. They seem to have endless reserves of bile. Marvel has the clout and massive financial successes to push back on any negativity from any fans who might not like the more progressive aspects of the MCU. WB has less leverage than Marvel and is trying to regain its footing after dismal failures like "Justice League," "Shazam," and, more recently, "Birds of Prey." Sure, "Wonder Woman" and "Aquaman" did well ("Suicide Squad" did fairly well), but those wins are only a few among a lot of financial losses; more importantly, those wins did not help the movies that came after. The only consistent win for the WB is the DCTV universe, and I'm sure they're willing to do almost anything to retain those TV fans, even if it means putting the kibosh on romantic WestAllen. After all, WB hopes those TV fans will help power the DECU movies to come and their streaming revenue. In 2014, WB had the confidence to take the risk of making Iris West a Black woman and did pretty well at the IR romance in the early seasons. Years later, WB's courage or willingness to take risks is fading under the weight of so many financial losses and a landscape in which pushback against progressive themes is on the rise. Their resolve seems to be wilting from its earlier strength in earlier seasons to promote WestAllen's romantic status so as not to "offend" certain fans. Just to be clear, the Flash is still the highest rated CW show and the most watched on streaming. Therefore, placating the Flash fans would be a higher priority than making "Batwoman," "LoT," or even "Supergirl" fans happy. After all, WB's goal is to make money. We'll see if the Flash movie retains the Black actress for Iris West and how she and their relationship are portrayed in the DCEU movie.

This evidence only supports that idea that there is something amiss on the Flash with WestAllen. It's not writers who don't know how to write romance. If you don't know how to do your job, you get fired. I have zero doubt there'd be more obvious romance on the show if Barry was with Caitlin or Patty Spivot. ETA: With regard to Nate and Amaya, they were not OTP. I don't watch LoT anymore, so I'm not sure if Nate and Zari are OTP. Ray and Kendra weren't OTP either. And Kendra and Carter were OTP, but left after the first season, so it's unclear how they would have been written in the long-term. No comment on the Arrow spinoff since I don't know much about it.

I didn't say the writers are being motivated by racism. I said that they are being instructed to limit the romantic aspect of WestAllen's relationship. I don't know who is giving those instructions. However, there has been evidence from the Tweets of guest writers who said that they wrote romantic scenes for WestAllen, but they were cut from the script, not just filmed and cut for time. We can't yet judge with Ralph and Sue because there hasn't been enough content for them yet. We'll have to wait to see how they are written once an actual romance occurs between them. It's far too early to even bring Ralph and Sue into this discussion. As for why do it now? It's not just now. This has been going on for quite some time. Like I said, I originally thought this lack of romance had to do with the previous showrunners, but with Eric, it's become clear that the mandate comes from higher up. I'm not sure if it's Berlanti or Johns. It could be WB.

I can't really believe it's about how long the writers have been with the show. It's not like romantic writing was invented a minute ago. It's not like OTP couples are a new thing. It's not like there's not 60+ years of romantic WestAllen content in the comics from which to draw. The CW shows are known for romantic content in their shows no matter the type of show. There's no way the writers (new or old) don't have experience writing romantic dialogue or scenes that make sense for the OTP couple each season; that's gotta be part of screenwriting 101. No; I'm convinced, reluctantly, that the writers are being instructed to downplay the romance aspect of their OTP couple. The most likely reason is that it's an IR couple. Look at all the other CW shows past and present (Screenrant has lists of CW couples over the years). The White OTP couples, not the ones that weren't OTP, had tons of ongoing romantic content each season; Lois and Clark are a prime example.

I've said this elsewhere, but not all Black men support Black women in romantic relationships with White men. Either that's Eric's problem or he's catering to the bigoted parts of the fandom. The fact that WestAllen doesn't even remember their anniversary, shares most of their intimate moments with the team, has the team co-opt the phrase, "We are the Flash", etc., shows an agenda that spans across showrunners to downplay WestAllen as a couple as much as they can get away with. With Eric, there was the hope that the agenda was coming from clueless non-POC showrunners; now we're longing for the days of (dare I say it) AJK's S3. Shame...

I heard a theory from a YT reviewer about Thawne taking over Godspeed's body. We haven't seen that odd Godspeed clone/time remnant that seemed to lack any consciousness since episode one of this season. I like the theory and it makes some sense.