Yeah No

I think part of the function of this board is for people to speculate on what was really going on behind the scenes on reality shows. Often it comes out that what some people have speculated is true, and everyone is entitled to their opinion on how to speculate. That's not what I'm saying at all and I'm sorry you took that from my comment. I'm saying that before anyone assumes the motivations of any particular white men, such as Tom C. or Eric Ripert, one should consider the particular man himself. I think it is unfair to make negative assumptions about certain white men based solely on their being white, and to paint them all with such a broad brush, especially the people on this show most of whom probably have very liberal and forward thinking values on human rights and equality, and would probably be very hurt and insulted that anyone would insinuate such a thing about them.

I hear you but it looked to me like what put Joe's food out ahead of Adrienne's was one little factor, and it was the pig brodo in his tortellini dish. I think that blew the judges away. Otherwise the two were pretty much neck and neck when stacked up point by point. It also looked to me like Adrienne might have been trying too hard to be creative and taking risks, and in the process bit off a tad more than she could chew in the execution. That happens a lot on these cooking competitions. The judges didn't articulate it that way, though. I hate it when they seem to focus in on one or two things that make their decision look either arbitrary or contrary to their comments, but they don't give us the big picture, which would have made it make more sense.

You don't know me or my history but if you did I don't think you would say that about me. I think that certain assumptions about me, Tom, Padma or anyone involved with the show contribute to unnecessary divisiveness and are not part of "the solution" at all. I personally see Adrienne's final two standing as having been encouraged by TPTB precisely because they wanted to give a black female every fair chance of winning. She would never have been on the cast at all if she were not a serious contender. I don't think that was a ruse just to appeal to an audience. And the fact that she lasted to the very end is what I prefer to see as a victory of its own kind. I was rooting for her all through. I was a little disappointed when she lost even though I'm happy for Joe. But I think seeing the glass as half empty wouldn't do any good so I prefer to concentrate on the positives of her journey, which are I think are many. One thing about Adrienne that struck me is finding out that her father was a Black Panther. What an amazing legacy! Adrienne strikes me as a poised individual who would never go home and claim unfairness after not winning on the basis of being a black female. She seems to be a modest, positive person that is fortunate enough to be in an environment that has allowed her to achieve much. This is amazing for an older person like me to witness. I remember when black women would never be able to ascend to such heights, being on speed dial with Eric Ripert and all that! Another thing not to forget is that for every accomplished black woman like Adrienne that has achieved much in a traditionally all white career there are usually white men in the background that helped to make it possible. I prefer to see the positives in this, and I think that is the best way to look at it.

Guy's Robert's best friend and probably hooked him up with this gig because his other (horrible) show isn't paying the bills. Either that or he owes Guy a favor which he cashed in on when some other judge backed out at the last minute.

Yeah, no. I have rooted for non-white and/or non-male candidates in many seasons on this show, either because I liked them and their food or thought they deserved to win. I would list their names but that's not on topic here. Note that in all cases a candidate's race and/or gender was not the major reason I thought they should win. For me it's all about the food on this show. Suddenly this season I've seen a lot of complaining about the racial distribution of the winners on this show in this thread, which I think is insulting to Tom and Padma and everyone that produces and contributes to this show. I'm sure that if they were accused of what has been implied they'd react pretty strongly to it as I'm sure they take what they do pretty seriously and strive to make the most unbiased decisions possible. I am getting tired of seeing white men being accused of being subconsciously biased and/or racist whenever a diverse candidate doesn't win. I think that is very unfair, especially in this case, since this show has such an outstanding record of diversity among its winners. Tom may have his preferences with food like anyone else but to imply that he's biased towards white men in his judging is what I consider an insult to him. I am a woman and if I thought he was being unfair to women I'd be the first person to start "harping" about it.

I knew that whoever won, I'd be a little let down because I genuinely liked both of them. I think that all the harping on "diversity" being represented on this show just because a white man won not only disrespects his accomplishment, but it disrespects the integrity of the show. Should the judges have let Adrienne win just because she's a black female and not on the merits of her food alone? That would be an even more unfair outcome than any perceived lack of diversity (which I agree with others is perceived because this show has always had plenty of diversity as in non-white, non-male, non-straight candidates). Plus I think it disrespects the judges, who I believe are as fair as they can possibly be and consider the food alone when judging. I don't believe they would ever give the edge to someone just because they are a white male, even subconsciously. I think they are more than capable of being color blind when making their decisions. But I have gotten the impression that some people would prefer that they would give preference to people based on their race or gender, but only if that race was black and that gender was female. I would see any kind of judging preference based on any race or gender as unfair, and I would stop watching this show if I ever thought any of that was taking place here. And I say that even as it pains my heart that Adrienne could not have won this season. I am a woman and well aware of how women have often gotten slighted and overlooked in the cooking field. Plus her food looked very creative and inspired while Joe played it a little safe this time. In the end, though, the judges do seem to use the most objective means possible for making their decisions, and I have to defer to their culinary wisdom. Also, let's not worry about Adrienne. She will not fade away as a result of this loss. She is a rising, shining star and has a fantastic future in this industry. Her accomplishments at a young age only show me that women, especially non-white women, have a very bright future in the field compared to a generation ago. Just 20 years ago none of this would have been possible, and that is a drop in the bucket time-wise. So be patient, things are changing!

The ones we couple possibly hate that much are usually put to death somehow, either by their own hands, the death penalty or hunted down and killed like Osama Bin Laden. So elaborate schemes to exact revenge on similar criminals would probably not appeal to a long standing collective hatred here. OK, perhaps I could see it with Bin Laden before they found him, since that took a while and I know people were getting upset about that. The unabomber is still alive serving a life sentence without parole, but he is actually an exception and somehow has faded from the collective consciousness by now. The vengeance idea Americans relate to the most is typified in the "Death Wish" movies, where a guy goes rogue and hunts down and kills criminals vigilante-style. I remember when the first movie came out it was not well received by critics, but it hit a nerve with the public since there was such a high violent crime rate in big cities at that time (especially NY), and people were really getting upset about it. Thanks for giving me that perspective on this episode, though as I never would have seen it from that angle!

I guess I think like a present day American about this. I have no idea who those most hated British criminals are.

This episode brought up a subject for me. Like no matter how much of you a computer could contain and reproduce, and no matter how uncanny and accurate it was, that representation of you would still not be you even if it got every fragment of DNA identical to yours and downloaded every single thought you ever had. Which proves to me that people really are more than the sum total of their parts.

It's late and my mind is not sharp but this episode took me back 50 years to something I saw on "The Prisoner". At least it felt that way. Except he was an innocent man and his captors were the bad guys. Call me a skeptic, but any group of people that would play such deception might even trick the person into thinking they were a criminal when they weren't. I wouldn't trust them that she was. They didn't convince me. A lot of theatrics and attention paid to one person. Even if it was a good idea (which it is not) how could any society fund such an elaborate endeavor for all its criminals?

Perhaps, but how many people in their first month of a relationship make a firm effort to not make any interruptions in their former single lifestyle on behalf of the new relationship? Most people I've known, even if they do end up being pretty independent later, start out with a lot more togetherness. My husband and I are like that now but at first we spent more time together. Even Jon, on unfiltered said he put stuff like that on hold for the sake of putting his all into the new relationship. Once again, Jon says something I agree with. People usually spend less time together as a relationship progresses, so if they're going out of the starting gate at only a few nights a week together, that's not a good omen, in my opinion. I would not see anything wrong with it if they were married for a few years already and in that case Jackie might not be so bothered by it. But only a few weeks in, I can understand how she feels. But anyway, I call BS on the last minute calls that he just has to go out with his bros late at night. WTF? I don't know any woman, even in a dating relationship that would feel good about that kind of behavior, especially so early in their relationship.

Given her age, her physical condition, her personality and her questionable ability to even conceive considering her medical issues, I think it's very irresponsible of Glenn to put pressure on her to have a child. He probably doesn't do the same thing with Hunter because he's a guy and can have kids easily for decades plus he is younger. Glenn realizes that the clock is ticking with Twit, hence the pressure. But she is in NO position to have a child in just about every way. At this point she doesn't even act like she really wants a child. If she did, she would have responded differently after Ashley gave birth. Somehow I don't see her giving into Glenn's pressure despite all her talking about not wanting to wake up at 40 without kids.

I wonder if this show didn't send a casting scout down in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn's little "Odessa by the Sea", which even today is a huge magnet for Eastern European immigrant Jews. There was Asaf, then Sharon's mother had an accent, so I wonder if he's from that neighborhood too. There was also winner Joshie Berger in Season 2, from Brooklyn, and a former Hasidic Jew. There aren't too many places where you'd find immigrant Jews in any concentration anymore except there, so it made me wonder.

I've wondered the same thing. I think she would be just as insufferable in some ways but the volume would be dialed down several decibels with less drama and crassness. I think a lot of that OTT behavior is done to play down her size or to live up to some self-hatred thing she has going about her personality needing to be larger and more animated than her body, so that maybe it will look smaller by comparison and we won't notice how sick and disabled she really is.

I totally agree about Molly. She acts very immature and stuck up. Jon has a point about how they should be farther along. He said nothing disrespectful to her at all but she got all defensive at his comparison to her threesome story with the "how dare you" crap. The guy had a point - she just didn't like it that he called her on her shit. She needs to get over herself. Jon is the holy grail for a lot of women. He has alpha male looks but he's not a douchebro like Ryan is. Ryan is still stuck in his bachelor mentality while Jon has shown more mature qualities. He is too good for Molly! To all those that thought Jon would match well with Shawniece, I liked their energy together on "Unfiltered". They could laugh together and Shawniece would have no problem putting on a red wig once in a while for him, too. I saw his face as he watched the stripper pole scene with Shawniece and Jephte and I really think he loved it! She is a genuinely nice person and would bring out a nice side of Jon.

It's like clockwork! The 4 week mark is the time this show makes every couple look like everything is wonderful between them even when it's so NOT! It happens every season. We have to suffer through 3 weeks of mind-numbing episodes all at the month mark, where we are forced to follow them around doing producer driven fake "dates" and fake gift giving. Then it's back to blow-ups and crying sessions leading up to the inevitable couple that separates, and it's a cliff hanger to the very end as to whether they'll get back together before "decision day".

I thought it was strange that Taylor would be so blase about PDA in front of her father. Usually daughters are more reserved that way around their dads just because they know how mortified they can be by it. I did love how Greg got her back though. When he told her he was OK with it I thought "he's wussing out", but there was a method to his madness, lol. That was great! I was afraid that when Katie got Cooper to be a regular guy around Oliver's girlfriend he would steal her from him. I'm glad that didn't happen. The show's attempt to stop insulting Norwalk by calling where Oliver's girlfriend was from "South Brampton" is very transparent to anyone that knows the area. At least they're trying, but in this case it wouldn't have been an insult to use the real name of the town. I suppose I can't expect more from a show that can't even get the weather for the time of year right.

It's just an excuse for lazy writing. They don't want to have to bother to make it look like it's still winter out, which judging from the 6-12" of snow CT got today is still in full force....

I agree too. She especially wouldn't have been able to walk in those flip flops without pain if she did. I couldn't walk without arch support when I had it! That's yet another reason this episode doesn't match up so well with the Hawaii trip. I think some of the clips in this show were filmed before the trip but made to look like they were afterward. I can't figure it out unless that's the case. I think her problems were more to do with her painful chub rub and other factors in the 8K. Speaking of that, she would have been a wreck after that 8K for the rest of her Hawaii trip. No wonder we didn't see any scenes after that on their way home. I think the scenes we saw that was supposed to be right after they came home were filmed either before or way after the trip. I know, we really saw a whole 'nother side to Glenn in this episode - I used to think he was more like my own dad but now I see his is not. He is insufferable, meddling and abusive too! Thank goodness my own dad is nothing like that! How old is the Twit now? The clock is ticking, but I don't even believe she is physically capable of having a child much less should anyone push her into it. Geez, she can't even wipe her own ass, plus she is not mature enough to be a mother. I'd say it's a blessing on her potential children that it's just not happening.

I didn't even notice that. I couldn't get my eyes off the Twit walking in those flip flops - The worst thing she could possibly wear! I thought for sure she would try to pawn it off on her mother like she tried with the curly haired cat. Her mother seemed taken with this cat unlike the other one so it would have made more sense. I feel exactly the same. It looks like her hand/eye coordination is off as a result of the stroke. I almost question the doctor giving her the OK to drive so soon, especially if she's going to hit garbage cans. Then again I totally agree about hating Twit's disrespectful attitude toward her mother! My Dad is 90 and still driving, God bless him, although he only goes a couple of miles every day on easy streets. Speaking of the stroke - I feel like that was so long ago last season that how could we be seeing Babs just now and it's only 6 months later? And she went to Hawaii not even 6 months after the stroke? Yikes!

I'm old so I figured that out right away. Sheldon Leonard was also an actor and little known fact, he played the bartender "Nick" in "It's a Wonderful Life". He also produced some other iconic TV series like "The Danny Thomas Show", "Gomer Pyle" and "The Andy Griffith Show". Those are some of the most popular names of the past decade or so ago. Names come in and out of fashion and none of these are new, just recycled from eras gone by (my great grandmother's name was Emma). During the 1980s Penny came in at number 679 in popularity among female names in the US. I know 3 Pennys but like I say I'm old and it was more popular in the past. I just checked and it was number 206 in the 70s and 104 in the 60s. Me too and I know him personally.....

I finally watched the ending. I wasn't surprised at the final two. Asaf is a little quirky and it seemed like Steven had the edge over Sharon in general, although not by much. I can see why they called them "frick and frack". They don't really look or act alike but somehow they do. I know that makes no sense but neither do they, lol.

I fell asleep during this episode. I don't even know who was eliminated.

Whew, what a thread! Add me to the chorus of age-ist, sexist outrage! @hnygrl, I am right there with you all the way! No wonder my best friend kept telling me to keep watching. I knew she was hinting at some kind of bombshell at the end of this season. I am hoping the writers didn't just get sloppy and that Jane and Lilly agreed to this turn of plot events for a good reason. Like I wonder if the point is for them to show how people can jump to conclusions that everything is happening because they're getting older and therefore not able to take care of themselves anymore, and how sexist it is compared to the men, who have had heart attacks and other flightiness like Sol with his instigating the protesters, but no one thinks they need to go to a home. All of that was intentional and just a set up for the revenge and vindication they'll achieve next season. They'll show all of them - They're not going to accept others strong arming them into giving up their house, their independence and their careers! They're going to succeed on their own and put them all to shame! Grace will even bail out her old company from her completely selfish/untalented daughter who doesn't seem to realize that the company is HERS now and that if it fails now that's on HER. Of course, the show didn't have to go through all of this for Grace and Frankie to realize all those things and like others here I also don't buy that they would just allow their house to be sold out from under them. I also thought Nick might have bought the house, but Sheree buying it is another possibility. I actually hope it's one of those things so it's easy for them to get the house back. Nick doesn't bother me that much. I think he has Grace's best interests at heart. About the men - I didn't like it when the therapist told them that many gay male couples opted for an open marriage, like it was some kind of exclusively male thing to want variety in their relationship, which I'm not sold on that in general much less with Sol and Robert. But because of that stereotype that advice was given and now we have a nude guy standing in front of them, LOL. I think they might draw the line at the naked guy and realize they need to find another way to keep their relationship interesting. I personally think the two of them are not a great match in general and that they were better matched with their wives, so that's why they're feeling bored with each other. I agree with what was said upthread that they didn't have to face this when they were just having an affair, but the daily life grind together will bring out that incompatibility. Speaking of eldercare issues, my 90 year old dad still lives alone in an apartment and still drives. I wouldn't think of insisting that he move to a home or assisted living facility because he is till doing OK for now and his independence is very important to him. I reassess that all the time, though. And he does have someone that comes in once a week to help with laundry and cleaning. He still does his own grocery shopping for staple items like milk and bread, but he's lucky that he has a really good diner only a block from his apartment so he rarely cooks anything other than in the microwave. In light of that this plot with Grace and Frankie seems very preposterous indeed as those two women were nowhere near needing to be put in that living arrangement. I could see getting a home health aide while Grace was recuperating but that's about it. Yay on hearing that there will be a season 5 as despite some of the preposterous and annoying stuff, I love this show!

Frankie managed to raise two kids that grew up in one piece, so whatever flightiness she has has probably worsened with age, sad to say. Although I'm not willing to see it as related to her age, though. Some people just get worse in some ways as they get older but it isn't one of those "senior" things either.