Yeah No

I'm with you. I think the person being referenced in that Reddit is Molly. She's faker than a 3 dollar bill. She's all over the map about Jon to others so she can't even keep her story straight from one scene to the next. One minute she says they have everything in common, share the same goals and she sees a future with him, and the next minute she's telling the other women she doesn't know what she's going to do on decision day because she's on a roller coaster ride. SHE's the roller coaster here! I saw a very ugly, mean streak in her on that episode when she got all on her high horse with "How DARE you" when Jon said she would go to bed with some stranger in a threesome in college, but not him. I haven't been able to shake it. I would be very surprised if the person referenced was Jon. He would have to be a phenomenal actor to be THAT consistently decent in front of the cameras. Something would leak out. Molly, however, acts suspicious.

I had the same experience and I've wondered that about Janelle as well. I've also wondered if she doesn't have some kind of undiagnosed medical condition. I recently found out I have an enlarged thyroid with a nodule, not that this in and of itself is a cause of weight gain, but my mother had Hashimoto's disease, and that is. I have a follow up scheduled with the doctor who will look into this further. My weight issue, which didn't begin until perimenopause. Before that I was thin with no weight issues whatsoever. So many women over "a certain age" are just about as overweight as I am with tires around their middles that I can't believe the problem is that we're all suddenly not eating or exercising right. Many women have a lot of difficulty losing weight after a certain age so maintaining a healthy weight becomes like the holy grail. Now several years post menopause I can lose weight but it's excruciatingly difficult to accomplish it in that I have to go under 1000 calories a day to do it with exercise, and then maintaining the loss is all the harder. Diets of any kind don't work anymore. The only thing that works is near starvation! I think some women gain weight after having children. They say they never lose the "baby weight", and someone like Janelle who has had a lot of children may have never recovered from that completely. I've read that it could have caused low thyroid function. I often wonder what my body would have looked like if I'd have had children. My suspicion is that I would have started to have a weight issue much earlier, like Janelle did, and a thyroid issue much earlier too.

I actually think Jackie has shown herself to have a lot of class considering what she had to deal with with this douche. I don't know that I could have kept as composed as she was in that exchange.

I'm not surprised that Jose is so popular. He reminds me of guys I grew up with in the Bronx so of course I love him. I get so nostalgic when I watch this show. I grew up near the zoo and have a long history with it going back 5 decades. Whenever I watch this it stirs memories in me that make me very melancholic - in a good way. I have to make a point to go back there this year. My BFF still lives in the Bronx and went there last year without telling me. I was soooo upset! I told her we have to go this year. That's it, I'm making it happen.

For sure Ryan is not a monster, just a run of the mill douche with intimacy issues that probably would be happier with one of those blow-up dolls. Since some wise person named @lezlers said upthread that he's all about appearances, I think the emphasis there is "looking like a hero" to all his buddies. Running into buildings is more about that than helping anyone, plus didn't he say in the beginning that he comes from a family of fire fighters? Ryan seems to do things out of a sense of tradition more than passion. I've known a lot of guys just like Ryan.....

You sound like a NutriSystem commercial.

I kind of took that aspect of the crying as being intentional - a rare awkward blurt-out from a person that would usually be too uncomfortable to make such emotional outbursts. When it does come out it looks all weird and out of proportion, and feels forced and fake, and supremely cringe-worthy. It came out kind of like a caricature of real emotions, because his character is normally not able to exist on such a real level. So I saw his acting there as being spot-on and in character considering Oliver's personality.

Probably true. In my experience firemen are also usually all around good marriage material, loyal and sweet natured, kind of like Jason from season 1. Ryan is actually not typical in that way either.

You kind of beat me to it, but I also think Ryan likes the idea of being married more than actually having an intimate relationship with a real live woman. That's why he's constantly inventing reasons to avoid it and acting very defensive about them. Given his traditional bent, he is motivated to be married out of a sense of duty and traditional values over a need for togetherness. Which makes him ultimately bad marriage material. The drinking itself is another means of relationship avoidance. He must have issues with emotional intimacy with women and when faced with it acts out even more to avoid it. Unless he orders a "mail order bride" looking to flee an oppressed country that will take whatever she gets and not put any pressure on him for emotional intimacy, he is ultimately doomed to fail at marriage.

If Grace and Frankie had "life estate" in that home they would have the right to inhabit it until they die without fear of having it sold out from under them. I'm not sure if that still holds if they voluntarily move out, though. If they did that or just gave the house to the kids it's the kids' house to do with as they wish and they would reap the profits of the sale. I would imagine if Grace and Frankie had done this they would not expect to get the profits from the sale anyway. But I don't believe they would have done this no matter how coerced they were anyway, so it still makes no sense to me. Even if the kids were handling the real estate sale and did not technically own the house, you're right that G&F would have had to sign off on the closing. and they would have known that before trying to go home. Not if you gave the parent life estate. Then they have the right to inhabit the home until they die without fear of having it sold out from under them. Plus there are always clauses that can be added to wills to prevent any surviving spouse from evicting the parent from the house in the event they take ownership of it. Usually a parent wouldn't do it if they didn't trust the child and their spouse. In my case I've been married close to 40 years and my husband is like a son to my Dad.

I took a look online and Ryan made just over $70,500 last year. I don't feel bad posting that as Massachusetts gov't employee salaries are public knowledge and posted online for anyone to see. Considering his age, that's not bad, especially because it will only grow in time. A lot of the salaries I saw were well over $100,000 just for a regular firefighter in Brookline. If Ryan works a second job he probably tops that anyway. So I think he's doing pretty well.

I don't think Ryan's behavior is a cover-up for being gay. I think it's a cover-up for being insecure. All that chest beating, emotional tough-guy act and spending more on the ring are to compensate somehow for his feelings of inadequacy. He acts just the opposite of the way he really feels to try to convince the world (and himself) that he's not a wimp. Only it comes out as overcompensation, going overboard in the opposite direction, making himself look like a caricature of a pre-historic brute.

LOL, we had the same exact childhood! This bothers me so much I've brought it up with my husband and friends. Hubbie says if there was an adult within a half a mile they would hop on a bus just to come over and correct you! I am conditioned like one of Pavlov's dogs to react in horror every time I hear "me and", and it happens all the time on this show. I don't remember any of the participants on this show ever getting it right! Did kids stop paying attention to their elders somewhere along the line or did the elders stop correcting them? I don't have kids so I have no idea. Another pet peeve of mine is when they say "doing good" or "did good" instead of "doing (or did) well". None of them get that one right either!

I agree. Great episode but still bummed about George Hamilton's character being killed off, especially right after losing his ankle bracelet. I also thought it was kind of a bummer that Hans Gruber had to share a goodbye episode with him too. I understand how the theme was all about goodbyes but his departure was kind of overshadowed a bit by George's. And yeah to Daniel DiMaggio's fantastic crying scene, though! I'm usually against Katie meddling and being mean spirited but cheered her on when she decimated those "mean girls".

Maybe he'll get free rent for this "extra" role as Twit's co-adoptee. Didn't I read once that Tal doesn't make that much money as a counselor? I was wondering how he afforded where he was living originally so this move and his new fake role actually don't surprise me. Maybe he broke up with someone and was struggling financially so Whitney found a way to write him into a new plot to earn more $$$. Although I don't believe it'll be in the script for them to ever actually adopt. Something will happen to nix those obviously fake "plans", like Tal will find another boyfriend and want out. Something we won't have any way of knowing is also fake, but will be fake. So typical of this show - YAWN, so what else is new?

Maybe they're killing off George Hamilton's character? I hope not! I also hope that what happens to Hans Gruber isn't like what happened to Piggy on "My Big Fat Fabulous Life" - He was returned to a pig farm after living with a family and then died not that long after from some mysterious virus or whatever. It's hard for animals that haven't been raised in their natural habitats to return to them later in life. Of course, this show is fictional so Hans will probably be OK.

Either that or he'd call a baby sitter before he meets his bros at the bar.

Wait a minute - Asshat Ryan leaves Jackie alone when she's sick for drinks with his bros and HE's worried SHE'D leave their kids alone while she runs all over the world traveling? WTF? She sits at home every night while he's out with his buddies and he's worried that she'd leave HIM for a life of travel just based on one thing she said? What's wrong with this picture? What a total baby Ryan is! Even Jephte was giving him looks like he's out of his mind! And Pastor Cal was spot on. This guy is so transparent it's ridiculous. He's showing himself to be a knee-jerk and not that bright. It looked to me like Jackie is resigned at this point that this is not going to work out. Her attitude was like "whatever, I'm over it". I don't blame her. I just think she should have waited before jumping in the sack with him. Speaking of jumping in the sack, it looks like there's some cause for hope between Jon and Molly. I know they have flip flopped a lot but my fingers are crossed.

Meri is a case in point of why women that are dumped by their husbands should leave. I know that sounds obvious to most of us but in this polygamous BULLSHIT arrangement their logic is warped and so Meri is doing stuff that is completely unhealthy for both her and the rest of the family by staying in that situation and attempting to still be a part of that family. Kody is doing nothing to improve the relationship because they are divorced in every way. This BS about them still being "spiritually married" is just garbage. Both of them have gone on with their lives for years now. When Meri took up with the catfish she was already dumped and moving on with her life. The only thing she neglected to do was freaking LEAVE before she did it! So of course the rest of the family has a reason to hate her for it and call her selfish for going behind their backs, etc., when she was just doing what a normal person would be doing if they had just MOVED OUT. Would it be selfish then? No, why is it selfish if she moves on with her life and tries to find someone else after being dumped? I can hardly call what she was doing "cheating", even emotional cheating (and that's not even considering how it could be cheating when her husband has 3 other wives). It wasn't really cheating because she was at that point DUMPED, and both she and Kody knew it. The only thing she did wrong was not be honest and above board about it. Him acting all victim-like with hurt feelings over her going behind his back to find someone else is BULLCRAP. If she had moved out of that house and admitted she was dumped, would anyone have thought she was "cheating" by looking to replace Kody? I doubt it! Her staying there makes her look like she's to blame for everything when she isn't 100% responsible. He at least bears 50% of the blame for everything between them. Why she continues to beat a horse that's been dead for years already is beyond me - She acts like she wants to be a part of his life again - WTF? Is she a freaking masochist? He wants nothing to do with her! I think there are complicated reasons why Meri never moved out. I have my theories about it. Some of them involve her being tied up in money with the family and she doesn't want to divest herself of it for any number of reasons, some of which may involve legal obligation. First, she probably doesn't want to forfeit the show money, and she may actually be under some kind of legal obligation to continue with the show, because obviously she creates good show fodder. We also don't know what the financial terms were of her divorce agreement and some of what she's doing may be a result of that. Some of the reason Kody is acting weird about the house in Parowan might be because he owes her money from a financial settlement from the divorce, which she is cashing in on to buy that house. That's the ONLY reason I can think of for his weird half-assed support of her endeavor on-screen and acting strange about how it's going to be financed. Other theories I have about why Meri won't leave revolve around that screwed up cult of theirs. She may have talked herself into staying because in their strange religion that's the only way she's going to get into heaven. They believe marriage is for eternity, so in their minds physically leaving isn't going to break that bond even if they can't stand each other and have already gotten legally divorced. And they may think that staying together is the only way to salvation, even if they hate each other. So that weird logic becomes a justification for her not completely moving on with her life (even though she has moved on in her heart). She seems to justify her staying there by pointing out that it wasn't just about Kody but "the family", so it's like she's staying there "for the family", as if whether or not they like it, they're manacled together for all eternity, even though she is legally divorced. Or because she thinks she still feels something for the family and why should she have to forfeit that and leave the rest of them just because she's divorced from Kody? So that becomes a justification for her staying too. The only thing is that the family hates her now precisely because it is ridiculous and unhealthy for her to stay there after getting divorced (and she really doesn't care for them anymore anyway), so staying there has become a punishment, one I hate to say she probably thinks she deserves. She is punishing herself by staying there, punishing them with her presence, and they in turn are punishing her for being there. She is like a ghost haunting the family and they are treating her like "persona non grata". They are never going to treat her like a member of that family anymore no matter how many times she pushes herself on them and demands it. It's a toxic and unhealthy situation. If no one really wants to work this situation out they can go to that ridiculous "therapist" of theirs all they want, but it's not going to change ONE THING. I am just angry that there's no one beating her over the head with a virtual 2x4 to get this into her head! She is doomed to acting like a selfish bitch trying to eke out any kind of respect she can like blood from a stone. It just makes her look bad when in fact she wouldn't look so selfish if she had just played her cards right. In this situation she is never going to become healthy or get anywhere with her life. She is stuck in a purgatory of her own creation.

Perhaps there was one thing that turned her off about him but she's letting that spoil the 7 tenths of the relationship she admits is good, which is too bad. Maybe she should give him a second chance like so many of the "ice princesses" on this show refuse to do. Or maybe she thinks she IS giving him a second chance by saying "things could change". Knowing her, though, I tend to think that whatever he did that turned her off was something minor that she either misinterpreted or blew out of proportion because she's immature and scared. That's my take on it, anyway. She's another one that's really not ready for marriage so I am suspicious of all of this willingness to pounce on him for every little perceived offense, and think it comes from fear, not much based in reality. I'd be surprised to find out that Jon was a pig that did something so crass as to warrant her behavior. Just my gut feeling.

I agree with you. There is only one you, and any download of your memories, thoughts and feelings into a computer will only produce a computer generated facsimile of you, not you, no matter how sophisticated it is. So when someone in this world dies, even if they choose to go to SJ, they would either just cease to exist or their souls would go to an afterlife (depending on what you believe), but their facsimiles will continue to live in that virtual world, probably ignorant of the fact that they are not "real". The virtual people live in a virtual world, while the real people they are copies of either live in the real world or die in it. This presumes that there is a "you" that persists over the decades despite the fact that the body regenerates its cells over and over again. If "you" were nothing but a collection of successive thoughts and feelings with no aspect of unity or soul, then it might be possible for virtual copies of you to also be you as there is no unique and abiding essence unifying you so you could easily be duplicated again and again and those beings would also be just as much you. But if you have something like what is commonly called a "soul" that makes you a unique being, copying could not reproduce you so that the copy would also be you. There could still be a virtual copy of you, but it would not be you without your unique essence. This reminds me of a TNG episode where Ryker has some kind of transporter incident that produces another clone of Ryker, down to every memory and hair on his head. But even so it wasn't the same Ryker as his experiences as a result of being created in a transporter and then living a separate life from the original Ryker made him another unique being, not identical to the original Ryker. As a result of different experiences, he changed from the original and become a different person. It also reminds me of the TNG episode where Moriarty and his lady companion think they're real when in fact they are only holodeck creations that somehow developed self consciousness of the world outside the holodeck. But despite that they were still fooled into thinking they were real and that the computer simulation they were programmed to live in forever was the real galaxy and universe. I guess from their POV they are real and what difference does it make? But from our POV we can think otherwise. If there is an afterlife and these women die, their souls might still experience what is going on in SJ at the same time they experience heaven, just as they experienced real life at the same time they experienced SJ when they were alive. So it wouldn't be an either/or proposition (that you either go to heaven or you go to SJ). You could theoretically do both. The only time it breaks down for me is if there is no heaven. In that case once the real person dies, the facsimile does not participate in the real person anymore so it is not a part of them anymore and so has separate experiences and becomes a separate, different being at that moment. Just like Ryker. Anyway, I also loved the shout out to an 80's version of artificial intelligence in a near future dystopia - Max Headroom, whose face appeared on the TV sets in an early scene. I knew the author had to have known about that! I watched that show! I was in my 20s in the '80s so this episode hit close to home for me, especially with the music and fashions, and going out dancing. I had just looked through some old photos so this got me at a vulnerable moment and I shed some tears wistfully thinking about my past. A very powerful episode.

I think Molly is one of those people that most of the time doesn't reveal what's going on inside her head. What she puts out to the world often doesn't resemble her real feelings about anything. Her rating the marriage at a 7 tells me that she sees more value in it than she's letting on to the world and Jon. She doesn't want to give Jon any false hopes so she's "managing his expectations" by not letting him bask in the glow of any good feelings she has about him and the relationship. She's holding back because she is waiting for a bolt of lightening to come out of the sky to tell her "he's the one". She's not willing to "fake it until she makes it" with him. And I think that's ridiculous. In a situation like this you can't get anywhere with someone unless you take some risks and do some things you may not be 100% invested in doing with them. If she wasn't willing to do some uncomfortable stuff to see how she felt about it after doing it, she shouldn't have signed up for this show because unless they do that on this show the relationship gets stalled. Every time. The more she waits for the "sign from God" or whatever she's waiting for, the less it's bound to happen. I also think she's one of those women that likes to be the initiator in a relationship, meaning she doesn't let a guy choose her, she likes to be the one doing the choosing, as in picking the guy that somehow strikes her fancy and pursuing him. Again, it's probably not a good idea for someone like that to go on a show like this if they're unwilling to go with the flow and let things happen to them, and not be willing to take a chance on someone they're not instantly attracted to. And regarding that, she has admitted she finds Jon attractive, she just isn't attracted to him "that way", meaning she doesn't feel right about having sex with him. I doubt she doesn't find him physically attractive and she has pretty much said she does. She just wants some kind of connection with him first before having sex, but that kind of connection takes time to achieve and may never happen. And even if it did happen, by that time he'll be so frustrated and disgusted that the entire relationship will go down the tube. She needs to take a chance. Sometimes that moves things along in the right direction because when someone allows the walls to come down enough to have sex with a person, it sometimes opens them up to allowing more emotional intimacy too.

I love this show more than 99% of what's on TV these days. Maybe even 100%. I'm glad there's finally a thread!

Hah, I remember that episode! I just watched an episode of "The Middle" where Brick has to carry a doll around as an assignment for one of his classes. It turned out to be the same doll his brother Axl had for the same class years before, so of course it was missing a limb and covered in band aids, LOL. But seriously I just can't see Twitney Huge-Ton raising a kid. I can't even see her as serious about doing it. Either it's a manufactured plot line (like her faker than fake "pregnancy" last season) or she's really gone off the deep end, which is actually a possibility. Somebody's got to stop the insanity if that's the case! Maybe Tal will talk some sense into her! Or Ashley! All this "shocking" crap is like the evening news that makes you think some bombshell is coming and then when you get there it's a big nothingburger! Anything to keep people tuning in! Glenn constantly pressuring her to have kids made me think that this is all part of the plot. He was setting the stage for this fake business where she suddenly announces she's going to adopt a child, which somehow never happens. At least I hope it's fake. I don't want her to be a mother, I'd feel too sorry for the child - I couldn't watch a narcissist like her raise a child! It would be all about her, not the kid!

I just had a thought - Maybe in their fictitious and out of character resignation at allowing themselves to go into a home, Grace and Frankie signed their home over to the kids, who then put it on the market. When my Dad was 75 he signed his house over to me. It's something a lot of older parents do to make things easier for their kids in the eventuality of their death. In that case, the kids would not have needed a power of attorney to sell it.