Midnight Cheese

ICAM. I really think Heather would have brought a lot of sanity, Kristen too actually. I don't think the nastiness of everyone winding up Sonja about Tom/LuAnn would've happened, and I think Heather -- even if she was feeling mama bear about Carole still -- would not have let Lu get ambushed with the info Beth is using to humiliate Lu. Again. Aviva sets a very elevated bar for use of filmed ad hominem but Bethenny clears it with room to spare like a steroidal Olympic high jumper.

I don't think she's really saying that her entire custodial argument hinged on that but there is no doubt that she used that detail to shore up her unsuccessful custody arguments - that detail was everywhere because Bethenny and her counsel used that to demonstrate what they contend was hostility from Jason's side to Saint Angel Bethenny Who Ain't Never Done No Wrong (my contempt is for her not you or any poster here; this is some kinda shit to read after the "December: Berkshires County" ep alone) -- http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bethenny-frankel-sobs-as-she-testifies-ex-jason-hoppy-called-her-disgusting-and-would-pee-and-poop-and-leave-it-in-the-toilet-38793 Listen to dis bitch: “He said, ‘You’re dead to me. I want nothing to do with you. You think I want to be with you on the holidays? You’re a piece of s--t. You’re garbage. You have no idea what I’ve got on you,’” she said, fighting tears on the stand. The Real Housewives alum also said Jason mocked her age and her appearance, saying, “Is this what 43 looks like? You’re disgusting. You’re gross.” Uh huh. I'm so sure he said that about her being 43. I'm so sure the queen of shrieking harangues was subjected to that as opposed to spewing bile like an anorexic Botoxed cobra.

Fucking wow to the bolded. Do you mind linking - I believe you of course zm but want to see this and never heard this one. WTF?? How does Ramona not get the shit punched out of her every damned day? About your overall post - yeah. So she and Carole are on social media insinuating with graphics and emojis that others are mixing pills and alcohol. WHY? Why go there when they got realllllllllll tight-faced during the Calzone of Tragedy incident with Jules when Adderall came up? And honestly, why in the hell did Beast feel she had to go so motherbanging far with John and 'lines'? Why? No one has managed to get "Michael Cerrutti" or "Drunkorexia brand" on air. Her castmates are hobbled and it's still kinda shockingly unfair.

But maybe 1% of commenters are making this suggestion. It's not representative of those who, like me, find Beth completely reprhensible. I don't love arguments about keeping kids from their parents...but will admit I found that much more a snatchmonster POV from those thinking Michael should have the kids he dumps on his parents the second Jules is out of town.

'The Realest Housewife' is doing a great job telling Twitter Carole about herself without being over the top. Kadooz. Does anyone know of any other writers who landed regular magazine columns/publishing deals who have gotten into Twitter slamfests like this? It's totally mystifying. She had a real career, one so hard to progress in, as a writer. WTF is she doing?

I can't believe that Bethenny and Carole would be that low. The stuff with John was already beyond decency. If Bethenny is so into being real and imperfect, why does she care so much about these other women? Same for Carole. Why? I guess because at this point, FOUR seasons in Carole and back at Bravo with her tail between her legs Bethenny each know they are absolutely no better than the others. And I would bet my actual life (though not my kid's) that Bethenny is really, really familiar with coke, even recently, and that Carole gets stoned at least 1x/week. I ain't hating but come on ladies.

I keep effing up my quotes so I'll just reference mcm's upthread point about the Peggy/Alexis/Skeezoid Jim triangle on RHOOC and why I think there are distinctions here which don't favor Sonja. I think it's not in controversy that Peggy started a friendship with Alexis without ever telling her she dated/slept with and broke into Jim's house (!). Now, did Jim aka Earth Jesus have the primary obligation to tell Alexis, and was he 99.99999999% at fault? Fo sho. FO SHO. But Peggy was creepy. And Alexis bought into Earth Jesus as Head of Household and Bidnessman Earner for a while at least, so that was that. Spouses forgive a lot. But the troubling behavior - Peggy herself said she entered Jim's place unbeknownst to him because he wouldn't take her calls - seemed to run deep, which is why I thought it was like Brian dePalma movie unsettling for her to friend up Alexis and not breathe a word. I will never think she wasn't trying to get close to Jim and prove something to him, to herself, in doing that, and Alexis radiated that she felt humiliated, and I felt for her. Here I feel for LuAnn because it seems not really controversial to say Tom and Sonja have very, very different takes on frequency of meetups - if he says 1x, and she's hazily saying 'lover of 10 years' even though she was possibly not divorced when this all allegedly started, Lu has choices to make about who has had a long-term history of delusional-level dishonesty, and I can't imagine Sonja's not losing that competition against anyone, let alone a man LuAnn's stated she loves. She wouldn't have known either of them then, and even Sonja admits no one knew before about this allegedly long-term arrangement. I can't tell but it seems Sonja has not cited a number -- and I think it's because she's a liar, and 'you know, whenever free...' invites less scrutiny than 'we've slept together a dozen times.' From her initial assertions, I would have assumed dozens if not 100 times, and it seems like that's not at all true, or at this point, after being wound up by Ramona and Bethenny and Carole and all their 'curiosity,' I think Sonja would've said so. She won't get specific even though she's gotten creepy and arranged her nipple-less foobs in a fuck-me dress at Tom's effing 'engagement party.' I mean, Sonja. SONJA! Dignity! Find it lady! Further, Lu has been victimized before by Sonja's lies expressly for a storyline - the bullshit with Harry Dubin. She saw Sonja pursue Johnny Deppleganger to say she got nailed by him after LuAnn's hookup/betrayal of Jacques. 'Last night was LuAnn's turn. Tonight, it's Sonja's night.' Sonja has been desperately delusional about the lawsuit, about her ex, about her money, and about her love life. Tom may be a cheater cheater pumpkin eater, but in a short-term relationship, he couldn't even possibly come up with the kinds of credibility and credulity-straining stuff that Sonja just babbles and tosses on the regular. But most fundamentally, if she is crying over Tom (best scene of the episode, Dorinda shutting down Ramonster's odious fake crying over adult bed buddies where she wasn't even one of the buds!) and Tom is trying to say HIS truth, which is 'it was incredibly infrequent and I hate her using this as a cudgel to smack her supposed friend' -- Sonja's history has shown such variance from a more objective reality that long story short (too late! Sorry), I ain't mad at him. Even if Tom and Lu don't marry, an engagement period is supposed to be a happy time, and Tom has only 1 known prior engagement. He's not a serial ringer-upper. It's shitty for Ramonja to make this about them - even apart from LuAnn - because before he selected a woman they both clearly are at best unhealthily competitive with - they seemed fond of him. Nothing bad to say. What a way to treat friend(s) apart from this selectively applied idiotic girl code, which is as shape-shifting as Robert Patrick in Terminator 2. If they told no one for forever and a day, and then Sonja decides unilaterally that she's pissed and has been ill-done and spills, Tom has the right to a reaction. It was not only private it seems on some level to have been secret. Best I can tell, Sonja hasn't said, 'well you all know I would go home with Tom and have some fun a few times a year, not a big deal, not advertised.' This seems to have been a 'no one knows' thing that Sonja, with Ramona's encouragement, decided to drag into the light for Boring Part One Million of LuAnn Likes Herself, Let's Kill Her. (Trump voice) Sad! (/Trump voice) And I keep wanting to say, if Sonja did love Tom and feels so hurt, I am honestly and actually sorry for her. Heartbreak is miserable and I don't want her to feel that. But that doesn't seem to be at all what's happening, no? I keep adding like a loon, sorry -- my actual point was, both Peggy and Earth Jesus Jim agreed ultimately on a lot of what their relationship was, and Jim was primarily responsible and should've told Alexis -- but Peggy friending Alexis had a seamy, psychologically unstable element to it IMO. So even possibly from a safety perspective, for sure Peggy owed her that truth before starting a friendship; few wives are going to be comfortable being friendly with a husband's ex who by her own word once entered his home without his consent. Sonja on the other hand and Tom could not be much more far apart with their characterizations of what they did and how often, and Tom may well see what Sonja's doing with her rose-colored retrospective on their 'story' is really an effort to hurt Lu, at least in part. What I am mad about is you reminded me that multiple women have gone for Jim Bellino. Damn you mcm!

Oh, I agree with that super, super lovely quote. Just not with the application. Woman up works for me.

Yes - if Tom was to 'man up,' why couldn't Sonja 'woman up'? Or 'adult up'? There are consequences to spilling, again and again, elements of your private life which completely overlap with another person's private life. I pity Sonja but it seems obvious she is upset because she's worried about money and doesn't have the strength of character to resist and push back against the major manipulations of Ramona and the minor ones of Carole and Bethenny, and their oily compliments about how well she's handling everything. It's pretty damned sad. I'm behind the curve - how many times does Tom contend they met/whatevered? And how many times does Sonja? And good catch by everyone who pointed out Sonja may not have been divorced when she placed the start of this grand love. Egads.

Okay!

How did I miss this? Former intern's Reddit on working for Sexy J: https://www.reddit.com/r/BravoRealHousewives/comments/4977wm/naughty_gossip_real_housewife_sonja_morgan_is_a/

Ramona looks fawful - fucking awful - in her swimsuits. Heeeeeeeeeeeee! Why did no one dump her sparkplug, buttplug self into the drink, or try to drown her (ho only has 1 good nostril) in one of Jules's sloppily poured Fandangos? I know there's a sociopathic contingent that insists the SAHM is at fault for the fuckaround Hobbit fucking around instead of watching his kids while his wife's away for 4 days (it's just so telling that he's not where he's supposed to be, HER FAULT! - is what anyone unfamiliar with human children and actual, not imaginary, real-life relationships writes...so again, it's telling that his older kid relies on and trusts his mom to tell him where his dad is, all right), but Michael has made himself look like the tiny tool he is without eeeeeeevil mastermind Jules doing a damned thing to harm his image. Good riddance Jules. I remain agnostic on the Tom-Lu relationship. I hope it works out as Lu wishes for it to work out, Who knows? Not me. Agnostic as well on Tom-Sonja (in re Tom-Ramona? Ramona is a liar liar chubby fuggo titties on fire.) Sonja can be delusional, but I hate to see that kind of chapped, raw feelings pain - even if the feelings stem from Raboobna instigating. Ugh. I will admit that I wonder how many times they slept together. I wonder if she's inflated the incidents in her mind somehow. I don't like the humiliation she seems to feel, not one bit. Damn. Poor dying Beth in her Mara Hoffman bikini and attempt at a 1-'girl' fashion show! Poor bleeding Beffy. Poor, poor Bethenny. Barely the strength to blow up Carole's cell and Lu's relationship with her gossip. Aw. Who's fucking a married dude and preening before paparazzi again? Not Beffy!!

You can't tell people who don't want to know that it's incredibly common that a child WANTS the non stay-at-home parent more often than not. After all, some things are just so incredibly telling...and I sure do agree with that. Ramona...yes. She's up here, and service workers, her daughter's friends, potential romantic partners...all down there. Should really solve her all aloneness as she rockets, eyes a-buggin', into her golden years. Enjoy being consoled and eventually consumed by a teacup dog, ho! I remain amused by Ramona's boob job but honestly, you know what men of means in NYC in their 50s and 60s (and often pursuing women ages 20-'looks like she could be 39?') like? Porn-ready foobs on a woman who acts like she got lost on her way to a macrame-wimple-required convent. Come ON. I know that bug-eyed fidiot is a Madame Tussaud's figure in bed, and I'm guessing all of the men she's desperately trying to impress think that too. Hard to play coquette with a rack so fake it's fucking shiny.

Bethenny really wants to destroy LuAnn. She is so cruel it's hard to understand in any way. I've never directly interacted with such a destructive, foul and miserable person, and I hope I never do. Joke's ultimately on her because Ramona's Brooklyn Bridge prophecies grow nearer day by day.

n/m - double-post, not sure how I goofed...

This episode was boring but also just grey and frigging depressing. I know it's a little more out there and they've already gone, but Atlantic City seems more fun than Mohegan Sun, more out-there bananas, I guess. It seemed an unusually pointless trip, and Ramona and Sonja trying to make their forced merriment was just a damned bummer. Ramona you're a dullard and a pile of shit who needs Dr. Sharon Giese to twist the tie on the back of your face a little harder. Just shut it. One day I hope justice is served, she accidentally somehow texts something to Naomi Campbell, is rewarded with a phone to the face. Carole and Adam just bummed me out. The 'high road' TH was petty but I was kind of happily relieved to see her being gracious to Lu about her engagement. Lu? I'm happy you're happy. I lack the Liz Taylor Eye so I don't know much about jewelry. If she likes it, I love it. Sonja. GOD SONJA. Okay. See, the thing is, I hate to think that she feels less-than as just a lover or fuck buddy or whatever to Tom. I doubt she loved him. But she pulls this incredibly nasty shit and not even for the first time against Lu -- the Harry Dubin spectacle with her willing co-liar Ramona, acting all slighted when the whole 'abandonment' was a lie. I hate the 'worthy woman' shit from ALL directions. I'm sure Tom dated some amazing women - they are not less amazing because he didn't propose. And I'm thrilled Lu is thrilled, and I think it's intensely vile for Ro and So to be suck dirty dickbags about the whole thing. But I pity Sonja's envy. Humiliating. The fuck is wrong with her, talking all of this mess about carats and murkiness stone-cold sober? Like, way to highlight your insecurities, insufficiency, lack of perspective and joy to anyone who can watch this, or tell her/his eligible old coot friend that you're kind of a yooge bitch? It's just sad. And I think Sonja isn't innocent and is a pretty mean, bad person in lots of ways. But I feel sorry for her. She needs to woman up and find out if there's a real person in there anymore. I don't think there is. I don't think she organically started off as a giant pile of shit of a human unlike some (RAMONA) but there's no there. I think her future could be very bleak after her daughter is off to college and takes fewer trips and vacations with her. She's all front and sham. It's hard to believe her having a real soul friend let alone a deep true relationship. Genuinely sad. The only bright spot was Step Teacher Dorinda! LOVED IT. I think Dorinda is very attractive and has a great body - she and Lu have the best figures on the franchise for me, without horrible bolt-ons or scrawniness. Ramona's overrated and she's just not looking good (...that's as nice as I get with that demon). Now I know her secret. I loved how fast she went back into her patter ("and take it up! two! three!") - I totally buy that she's great at that, that Bethenny would've been the class show-off, and that Do would've gotten her to back that shit up, handstand(ing for attention) or no handstand.

Sexy J is a mean person in lots and lots of ways. She thought a richer man would rescue her - the articles regarding the suit lodged against her contained allegations that she had rich, powerful men threaten the (successful) plaintiffs. I think she must read as a little toxic to that Upper East Side, rich men ages 45-80. I don't think she's getting ringed up again. She's been in that scene for 10 years. She may be the only one but I think she is deeply jealous of Lu. Not over Tom per se, but over every other circumstance - age-appropriate, rich, and willing to propose marriage? That's just not going to happen for Sonja.

n/m!

Agreed, ZM. 'Dishonest' is Beth saying "I've never had surgery" as puzzled viewers Google and bring up her televised discussions of her foob job and a puzzled (as puzzled as her current rictus permits) Carole stumbles briefly and says, uh oh rilly? Way to keep it 100, Frisbee Face. Admitting to an active-phase, recent-episode ED is honest. Hard to see how that can be spun if your vision isn't blurred by the wrinkles in B's rectum.

ICAM. B and C are punching down on someone they knew, while filming, was having a rough go. Yet their reflection and consideration of their bitchassedness is 'nuh uh I AM THE REAL VICTIM.' Get the fuck out with that. I may or may not get excited when Leon rolls into a Real Housewives (Atl) scene. Point well made.

What happened in Nice is an atrocity and an act of terrorism, driven by any or multiple or no ultimately known cause. The manner in which Carehole, Anal Tenant and her generalissima, Landlord Frankel, have TH'd and written about John and Jules is vile, disgusting - like Tamra Barney levels of vile for me- and I am completely comfortable with that language in both instances, describing something of global consequence and something I perceive as unnecessary, cruel, deliberate and demeaning. I know I'm allowed both opinions and am pretty comfy with my stances.

And the moaning about Jules the fucking idiot who was miscast (though allegedly pushed through by B)? What about that moaning? Or does that only apply to people with other opinions?

You're getting at LEAST a Man Booker shortlist nod for this. If A Thousand Acres got much love, I know this can go your way. Brava!!!!

To me it's clear what's really hurting Jules is the derisive OHMYGAHWHATAFREAK tenor of the conversations between B and C about Jules' admitted ED where she's even confessed relapse and being under unusual marital strain, which is a different animal than standard-issue Housewives social aggression. It's reprehensibly mean, as are the constant lobs about Jules' intelligence. It's a different class of nasty IMO than are the Bravo-insult-classic criticisms of behaviors (you're broke! you got no mans! You are a ho not a hostess!) when a sensitive and less-aggressive person is being mocked and put down for a real-deal chronic illness, especially as she asks for it to stop. ...and that's why Carole is wilding out on Twitter cuz she was a snatch and she knows it. And she should stop both wilding out and Jocelyn Wildensteining out with the fucking injectibles.

After two kids, what was probably for a long time a passionate and good marriage, and lastly this was a marriage which lasted longer than any relationship between any other current Ho excepting Ramona, who was desperado to the point of calling la policia when Mario finally came clean. I don't understand how LuAnn is always criticized for this, but MMV, naturellement. /off to find some 'Italian friends'!