Pop Tart

Yes. That was actually the highlight of the dinner for me. Watching Jen melt down and the chaotic fights with everyone was interesting, aggravating and often funny. But far more interesting, and appealing to me, was Heather getting bulls-eyed by Angie and the editors picking up on everything Angie was laying down. And Heather responded exactly as Whitney has said she does, first she tried to deflect, deflect, deflect and when that didn't work she got up and ran. She was on WWHL last week and Andy asked her about her "forgetting" things and she admitted that that's her go to tactic when she's confronted about lying. Whitney has taken a lot of heat this season and most have sided with Heather, but I've been mostly team Whitney in terms of being a little more honest and straightforward about things. Is she a shit-stirrer? Totally. Has she amped up the drama about what happened to her when she was younger for a storyline, probably? But compared to Heather? I'm pretty much mostly going to believe Whitney's version of anything.

I’m thinking they could pair Audra up with Adam. That would instantly make her more interesting and would make Sally crazy. I was rooting for Adam/Sally reconnect but her being with Nick just makes her lose her luster.

I actually don’t mind a little new blood as so much of the rest is so repetitive. Though they only lost Mary, so down one person, the original group has become so boring. Not a one of them has anything interesting going on. And if I have to hear Jen use her ‘woe is me’ excuse about how she’s going through such a hard time right now and thus no one should hold her accountable for anything? Boom. My head exploding. Do I think the friend (truly no clue as to her name) was acting up for camera time about the champagne being dumped on her? Sure. But Jen getting teary and somehow making herself the victim in that interaction because of the tough times she’s going through? That’s some crazy mental gymnastics there. I did actually love the friend burning her on not paying for Sharif’s party. When Jen said she paid for some of the stuff and the friend asked what? Jen just froze. That made me laugh.

Having Steffy stop it and tell truths was satisfying. Watching and listening as Brooke goes on about how much she loves Ridge and she’s sure he still loves her, all while he’s in the act of marrying another woman a day after he had her sign an annulment? Vomit inducing. I have a family member who’s husband suddenly said he wants a divorce (after 30 years). She finds out he’s been involved in some way with another woman. And though she’s stunned and heartbroken, you know what else she is? She’s angry. I understand conflicted feelings about someone you love, but Brooke is acting as though Ridge has no agency in this at all. ‘Something” is making him do this but he really, truly loves her, so she’s just sad for poor Ridge and herself.

Daniel’s description of the object of the game being ‘find the princess’ made me think that Heather has maybe disappeared with Lucy or Lucy has been disappeared somehow. And then he said the princess is based on Lucy… My memory of Heather is dim, but she’s a heroine-type, so her kidnapping Lucy seems off. But perhaps she thinks Daniel did something wrong? Or there’s a threat of some kind.

Though it was about ten years ago, re-runs and streaming have her fresh in my memory as Pam’s mom on The Office who Michael gets involved with.

I get that the people on these shows have to have workplace romances as there are only so many characters to switch around. But I do think it'd be a great story, if Nate and Victoria do get involved (and he loses his job after it goes south), for Sally and Nate to file a sex discrimination lawsuit against Newman. Both fired after getting involved with their boss. There's plenty of fodder there.

I mostly believe that Nancy didn't realize the extent of what Keith had going on with the women and the fully abusive nature of it all. But she certainly knew bad things about him that she let slide and she had some awareness that he was sexually involved with a number of the women - her mention of having to be Human Resources and handle things when they went sour. But more interesting to me is Nancy's motivations in regards to the money-making aspect of the whole shebang. Does she genuinely think they were doing good work and thus the costly classes where worth it? Or was she using her expertise in neuro linguistic programming to make this a profitable enterprise that would make her rich and she didn't care about the rest? Weirdly her still being in denial about how abusive it all was? Kind of makes me believe her a bit that she thought they were doing good? I think if she were just in it to rip people off, she would be throwing Keith under every and all buses. She wouldn't have as much confusion about just how evil he is. So it reads, to me, like she really did think/hope they were doing some good. And she was making money too.

I do think Nancy is in denial and knew more than she'll ever admit (even to herself). Her description at the end of how this can happen, by making one choice and then another and then another, each one that pushes your moral and ethical boundaries, you get sucked in. It's a kind of a sunk-cost situation. You've already gone this far, given up this much, conceded so many things, because you think there's a big payout coming. For Nancy, it was literally money. For the rest? success? Happiness? Something they think they're going to find if they just keep at it. That's what Keith counted on and that's how he operated. He'd push the women beyond a personal boundary and if they went with it, he'd move to the next boundary. As much as he looks like a creepy little dweeb, he is people smart. When he knew he'd got close to a firm line with someone, he'd back off a little bit and start gaslighting them about their narcissism or weaken their resolve in other ways (often punitive, by withholding affection or attention or in the case of Danielle, extreme isolation). Then he'd come back at them and see if they'd give in. If they did give in, then it was on to the next boundary. With someone like Keith, this isn't some manipulation ability he brought out now and again to have sex or whatever. This is his constant state. He is always looking for the weakness and getting his digs in. That recorded conversation when he asks Allison what was key for her when she got the brand. She responds with what was meaningful for her and he turns it around to call her a narcissist because he meant the question more generally, for all the women. It's a small moment and there's no reason he has to make her squirm there, but he does. Because that's who he is 100% of the time. The other thing that struck me is now all the other members have to "strengthen their character" "be more disciplined" or have a consequence. He never does any of that. Because, why? He's already ascended to a higher plane of being?

I read an article a couple years ago about this. It was some combination of it filming well and being an easier style to maintain continuity with, because you don't notice as easily if a strand or two is out of place (like you do with straight styles). I think this is likely true but I have two other theories for the why. One: Plastic surgery. Many who have had work done will keep their hair down around the sides of their face and temples so that it covers evidence of the changes in the skin at the hairline. You'll see this with many actresses and real housewives - not just soap actresses. I think many also think it makes them look younger in general. Two: Sexism. Soaps are sexist (and yes I say this as someone who has watched off an on for years). Women who have long flowing tresses are consider sexier, more attractive, womanly, feminine, etc. etc. Again, why the majority of actresses anywhere have longer hair. Think of the scandal when Keri Russell cut her hair and her character, Felicity, came back with the short, curly do. Or more recently when Kaley Cuoco got the pixie cut and it threw Big Bang into a panic.

Air date: 11/24/22

Air date: 11/24/22

This is an all-episode thread and may contain spoilers for those who haven't watched the full season. If you want to remain un-spoiled, you can discuss in the specific episode threads.

Agree that it's creepy and a red flag. I think on top of making the women easier to control and manipulate it also comes down to Keith's preference for younger women. He talked enough about sex with children being okay, and how it shouldn't be illegal, etc., that I'm convinced his sexual interest truly rests on teen or pre-pubescent girls. Making the women get thinner and thinner meant that they more closely resembled what he really wanted. We'll hear from Camilla next week who was not an adult and I'm guessing there may have been one or two others who weren't legal age. But I think too that if the cult had continued, that he would have been seeking out younger and younger.

Air date: 11/17/22

Air date: 11/17/22

Air date: 11/17/22

Okay, my new dream story: Sally joins CW as the new COO (or whatever Nate’s title was), Devon and Lily love every one of her ideas and give her free reign to do whatever she wants. All while Nate starts at Newman and is never allowed to make any decisions, his every move micromanaged by Victoria.

From what I read, he did not sleep with Sharon at this time. Chelsea was jealous of his relationship with Sharon and thought he was spending too much time with her, so when she got pregnant she told Adam the baby was Dylan's...which he was not (Connor). Adam tending to Sharon, who was having a mental breakdown, feels a lot like Billy now tending to Chelsea for same reasons. Won't be surprised if it doesn't have same effect of torpedoing Billy and Lily's marriage - though I'd be very surprised if Lily got pregnant and claimed the baby was someone else's. Oooh, maybe she does and tells everyone Adam is the father. And come full circle. 😉

Random thought: Has Adam ever cheated on any of his partners? Schemed and plotted for business or revenge reasons, sure, but cheated on a romantic relationship? There are some years I didn't watch and only kept up intermittently, but I can't remember him doing so? I'm not even sure I remember him being the cheating partner of someone else in a relationship. I ask only because I was thinking about how smug and dismissive most everyone is of Adam's feelings in regards to the people in his life, and yet almost 100% of those who are the most offensively insulting to him have cheated. Victoria? yes. Nick? yes. Nicki? yes. Chloe?, yes. Billy?, yes, yes, yes. etc. etc. As I said, I have missing years, so may be way off base. But it struck me.

I think the writers know how unlikeable they've made Nate, so suddenly Devon is having 'Neil issues' so much so that it's not totally Nate's fault he had to do what he did. Probably also why this rushed Devon/Abby hookup. Now not only is Devon a bully because of his 'Neil issues' but he's a cheater too. Bad, bad Devon which totally means that Nate isn't so bad, right? I think Devon is a self-righteous so-and-so, but Nate's whining about how mean Devon was to him, etc. etc. will never put me on Nate's side here. And while I like the soapiness of Abby/Devon (though the pairing is just meh to me), it feels very rushed for Abby to go from one sort of major fight with Chance to having sex with Devon. And not only did they have sex but Abby was glowing about "being seen", blergh. Devon's reasons also don't match where he is in his relationship either. Yes Amanda's been out of town, but he's not shown much discontent about that and he's spent all of his time on business. I don't like Devon much - but I hate Nate.

Air date: 11.10.22

Air date: 11.10.22

Agree that MCE did a great job today and on a shallow note I think she looks so much prettier with the minimal makeup. The Nate/Victoria scene where she’s assuring him no one will figure out it was her who he was scheming with because she’s hiring him? So Devon and Lily will think that Vic, just out of the blue, offers Nate Newman Media? The stupid, it blinds.

I 100% believe that Kathy said heinous things that night - including whatever Erica quoted that was bleeped out and HR ‘investigated’. But I also believe that Rinna decided to use it to get at Kathy, not because she felt abused.