Pop Tart

All of those other examples? The cast members who said them were dragged for it at the time. Just because they're not brought up now doesn't mean they weren't criticized for their body shaming comments in the past. Right now it's Candiace who has said some things and she's rightly getting heat for it. Karen and Ashley did get hate for their comments in the past. Now it's Candiace's turn.

Denise Richards daughter posted a TikTok about escaping the abusive, horror home that was living with Denise. Could be usual teenage stuff, but thought it was interesting... https://pagesix.com/2021/09/10/charlie-sheen-denise-richards-daughter-claims-she-was-trapped-in-abusive-home/?fbclid=IwAR1WT2nJy8yMI4zQy4B9plfoZpMZZxbflkTEHzEFgUoRNPZQO4OYZ41D9Fg

I'm with you. Garcelle does stir things up and then backs down when it really comes to participating. She's got a lot of sharp observations and thoughts in her talking heads but rarely says any of them to anyone directly. Why didn't she speak up more when Erika was going after Sutton? She's all talk when not with the women but when she's in the mix? She'll lob a bomb and then fade away. I think that because all of this was happening in real time while they were filming and they were learning new things every day, most of the women made a calculation based on how they perceived things might go in terms of the audience in relation to Erika and them. Things they thought they knew going in: Up until this season Erika was very popular - not universally loved, but generally popular and at the least respected by those who didn't love her (for her supposed straight-shooting ways) Several of them (especially Rinna) had taken a beating in the past few years for not being good friends to VDP (who I personally cannot stand) and Denise - so they perhaps wanted to play it differently this time around So I think they weighed things up, and since several of them aren't super smart, they decided to go all in on supporting Erika. I think where Sutton differs from the others is that she is pretty comfortable in her life and who she is. Sure she wants to be successful on the show, but it doesn't drive everything for her as it does for Kyle, Rinna, etc. And Dorit, while not a favorite of mine, was quicker than the others in beginning to see how this would all read to the viewing public. I think that's why she's backing up a bit and questioning Erika.

I really think she didn't want Garcelle wiping the tears off her face as they were part of her performance piece "the agony of Erika".

You've pinpointed my issue with Garcelle. She talks a good game in her talking heads but very rarely says those same things in the group settings. She plays it cool - which I totally understand - but there have been a number of times where she could have spoke up and supported someone and she does not. But that's not how reality show dinners actually work. I think this second one answers the first. Kathy is amusing (though I have more cynical thoughts about her than most), but she is on a reality show and dinners are not meant to be nice sit downs where everyone eats and compliments the food. Rinna and Kyle are pulling their weight as employees and driving the drama. I hated Kyle early on, when most loved her, because of how she deliberately outed Kim's alcoholism in the final episode of the first season. But in more recent seasons I've come to understand the role she and Rinna play on the show. Whatever else you can say about them, they do their jobs.

I think they've brought the new stew on board to sex things up a bit. As it stands there have been a couple of make-out sessions between Courtney and Mzi and that's it. David tried to connect with Malia, but she's not going for it. So I'm guessing the producers were gnashing their teeth. What's a Below Deck season without insta-love, jealousy, clinginess, and sexy times in too small bunks? Not saying that Delaney (?) will go for any of them, but I don't think she was brought on just because Lexi isn't doing the job. Lexi not doing her fair share is one of the kinds of conflicts they like, so they'll keep her as long as possible. But I do think 4th stew is being brought in to create more conflict - relationship with someone on board, or perhaps even just to irritate Lexi into doing another drunken tirade.

Sorry, was on my phone and didn't get a screen shot. Here's what the next screen on insta said and the guy some think it might be is Jon Peters.

Saw this today and one of the guesses as to the guy is film producer Jon Peters. https://www.instagram.com/p/CS7yjWiva79/?utm_medium=copy_link

I watched all the eps of this and while some of it was repetitive I was mesmerized by the visuals of the massive waves and intrigued by these people who pursue them. Felt so bad for Cotty there at the end and had a panicked moment about how it would end for Garrett. I don't think it needed to be 6 episodes long, but as with most HBO docs I found enough of it fascinating to stick with it for all six.

Oh I'm not actually feeling all that sorry for her as I do think she knew a lot more than she's admitting to. I'm a pretty empathetic person so it was more just a thought puzzle for me. If I take everything into account with her circumstances as they were at that dinner? She's pretty pathetic and yet I'm feeling about as cold towards her as she's projecting to everyone else. You've stated it better than I did and its why I never liked Denise. When things got even a little inconvenient or uncomfortable, she stopped showing up.

I've been thinking on Rinna's reaction to Denise and Erika and agree that her full-throated support of Erika is weird and shocking for how all-in she seems to be. And yet she wasn't with Denise. One thing I've always thought in regards to Denise was that she was angry and unsupportive not just because of the "scandal". I think a lot of her anger came from her views of how Denise was behaving as a HW co-worker in general. Denise was regularly skipping out on events, even before the big blow-up. She'd show up at an event, get "angry" about something and then just as quickly leave. I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Rinna's but I do think she puts her all (detestable as it frequently is) into this job. She shows up when she's supposed to, no matter how angry anyone may be with her or how challenging something might be, she works hard in this job just as I think she has worked hard at every job she's had. And whether these women are friends or not off camera, it is a job and they are working. So if one of her coworkers is regularly ducking work? That would frustrate Rinna. On top of that Denise was ducking the dramatic storylines in the process and I think that angered Rinna as well. Not saying any of this to excuse her being so hard on Denise, but if I as a viewer was exasperated with Denise for her no-shows, quick exits, etc, I'd believe the other HWs were feeling it as well. This ties into the Erika mess and Rinna's response in that Erika is showing up and taking it. Could be part of it for Rinna in terms of why she's on Erika's side. To be sure, it's probably only a very small part of why Rinna might be there for her, but maybe a part. The rest? I'm as baffled as everyone else. As to Erika - not a fan, never have been. But in an objective way last night, I saw her as a pretty pitiable figure. If you look at the facts of her life at that moment of filming - she's lost the flow of money, which has meant that she's lost all the hangers-on who went with her everywhere. And given that I don't think Erika has a single friend outside of the people she worked with (paid) - 'cause really do we think she was in a book club with the other wives of lawyers at the firm? - she's left with this group of women as her emotional support. Llikely before all the ish hit the fan, she wasn't actually offscreen friends with any of them. So here she is, no money, no entourage, in legal trouble and her only "support" is this group of women. Don't know if she was stoned last night, but at the least she was stunned into a stupor of horror.

Does the dad want to be found?

Eboni, Sonja is not a delicate flower abused by the others. So tired of this poor Sonja routine. She went from zero to 1000 and did almost as much to destroy that dinner as Ramona did.

I agree. I'd go further and say that a lot of her keeping the show moving is at the behest of the producers. There is no dinner ever on any HW show that someone doesn't confront someone about something. Gizelle and Karen had already had their thing at the lunch. So here they are at dinner and someone has to get something started. Cue Gizelle "wondering" about Wendy and Candiace. And for all that I think Gizelle worded it badly, she did say what I'm sure every one of them (and all of us) are wondering. What is up with Wendy? It's not just that she got her "glow-up", but that she's now Zen-Wen with a "candle business". I agree that it comes across more as insecurity than empowerment. And truly I understand. To see yourself on tv for a season, take all the abuse online, see your co-workers having physical work done, etc. It's enough to make anyone freak out about how they look and every other aspect of your life. My issue with her isn't that she made the changes it's that she's not being real about them at all. She's coming up with a multitude of reasons and "women power" talking points and none of it sounds genuine. Seeing her be "sexy" Wendy just makes me sad as she doesn't feel like it's coming from a good place.

Agreed. Sonja is always sticking a knife in Luann and Ramona in order to make herself look more like the "poor, poor abused Sonja". She hates when they have anything good in their lives - though making fun of her aside, I don't remember seeing scenes of Lu and Ramona be anything but happy for Sonja if she has something good happen to her. They all take their digs at one another, but Sonja weaponizes it to make them feel lousy when they've got something good (when Lu was being happy about Garth, Sonja shit all over it). But Sonja did this same thing earlier in the season, and in perhaps a worse way, when she told Eboni that Ramona lied about being friends with Black people and only posted pics of those friendships on social media to make herself look good. I don't actually dispute Sonja's argument, and in fact agreed with her at the time, but she was determined to make Ramona look foolish to ingratiate herself with Eboni. Yep. Ramona has historically been my least favorite, but in these last couple years Sonja has perhaps edged her out of that spot. Of the three I think she is 💯 the worst at being a "good" friend to the other women. I use the word good advisedly because none of them are really good at it because they, each and every one of them, need to be the center of the universe in any space they occupy. That is the number one agenda for each person on this show, so when that comes up against friendship? And I'd add that Sonja, because of her precarious financial situation has the added complication of envy eating her from the inside out.

Sandy has a habit of dismissing the concerns of her chief stews. With Hannah she clearly wanted to drive her to quit so she’d brush Hannah off when she expressed issues with staff. But clearly it’s not just Hannah. For all her “girl power” mantra, Sandy probably disdains the interior and thinks those jobs are easy.

Mzi was worrying me with as many times he hit his head, both on the pavement and the multiple knocks on the boat. He’s such a kind, sweet guy, I hope nothing happens to wreck that impression as the season goes on. Kind of karma that Malia has to be wary about what her roommate might do.

What I've started to notice is that some of the trope-y sitcom plots are following Allison into her "real" world or perhaps she's dragging them along with her. As soon as we saw her throw the pamphlets, face up and oh so visible, into the trash can I knew it was only a matter of time until somehow they were found. The sitcom-beats were there. She threw them away unnecessarily close to her own home and discoverable by anyone who opened the can. Then there was Patty throwing away her picture with the momentary "will she find the pamphlets and think that Allison is double-dealing somehow" to the moment Neil walks up and sees the painting. Even the way he took it out was full of the pauses that would happen in a sitcom. He's taken out the painting and marveling at it and why someone would throw it away and you have a moments thought that perhaps he'll not see the pamphlets because he's distracted and then... he does and sitcom hijinks ensue. They've done such a good job of showing how Allison's "real" world is so different than what Kevin's is and far distant from anything Kevin would imagine Allison's world to be. And yet Kevin's world seeps through into Allison's and Patty's and everyone else's to lesser or greater degrees (fully with Neil apparently). I too am sure that it is not Kevin who was shot.

Erika says “if he took all this money, where is it, I’ve never seen it”. Not true and badly played. The money was in the hundreds of thousands spent on you being “Erika Jayne” and in the thousands spent on glam squads, and the cars, and the clothes…. That’s what Erika has been flaunting to the world for years and she thinks the judge and lawyers aren’t going to be looking at all of that? She’s a smart woman who is playing her current hand all wrong. There’s no way she was ever going to fully skate on all of this, but her “woe is me, I have to live in this tiny 5000 square foot house with a pool” is not the way to go.

I agree. She likes to put on the wounded kitten act as well and sadly Eboni seems to be falling for it. Bershan was right to call her a clown and for Sonja to get enraged by that - when her whole schtick is acting goofy and flaky and like a clown? Not buying it. I do think that Bershan came in way too hot and heavy handed at the dinner the night before - clearly working to get her apple - but her apology (though it was clearly strategic) was well done and I was waiting for Sonja to apologize too. What I realized with Sonja is that she and Ramona are two sides of the same coin. Neither really apologizes for anything - Ramona will do her disappearing act when things get too hot and Sonja devolves into crazy, flaky, clown mode to avoid things. I think too that Sonja has gotten a big head as she is pretty loved for her "kookiness" (gag) and thinks as long as she puts it on, she's good to go. None of this is to say that she isn't terrified all the time about losing this, her most lucrative money-making gig. I think she's spinning just as fast as she can all the time because it must be incredibly scary to know that if she loses this income, what will she have to live on? And I think this does spur her nasty comments towards Ramona and Lu - always claiming they don't support her or help her or whatever. They both would be fine if they lost this gig... not so Sonja.

I too was horrified that she might be putting Patty in the frame deliberately. But I was also thinking that "New Patty" was somehow going to end up eating the drug burger. So a double fake out for me and one that really made me happy as it gave Allison and Patty another connection. This show is doing a phenomenal job with each beat and detail.

Candiace not showing up didn’t have anything to do with Karen. I’m guessing she just didn’t want to shlep all the way out there to Wendy’s. But her excuse looked even more lame given that Ashley made it and she’s giving birth in 10 days.

Generally I feel so bad for any of the "normals" who have to interact with the housewives. People teaching them how to do something (fishing), people giving them a tour, or whatever. So, so painful to have to see someone who cares about their job having to do that job with a group of women who couldn't care less at best and at worst are a bunch of shrieking lunatics. But in these current seasons of HW shows filmed during the pandemic, I think that many of these venues were just so happy to have any customers at all? And customers, horrendous as they are, who are eating, drinking, staying at the hotel, etc? All were most likely a boon to those businesses? Still terrible that the staff have to put up with them, but I'm thinking that the HW's and crew were being tested regularly, so I'm glad for them to have some business at a time when they probably had close to none. And too, when they're giving their spiel about the hotel or restaurant or tattoos or whatever, that is more for the viewing audience than it is the HW's. The venues want to get the word out about their business and put up with the obnoxious for the advertising that comes with it.

I was thinking that too. She just seemed pretty down and angry through this whole thing - and shallow note, but the deep tan (real or spray?) and the way the light was hitting her face didn't help. I wished that Andy had probed more about what happened between Alli and Gary in that trip to take the boat back after filming ended. They showed some self-filmed bits where Alli said she was rooming with him and the first snippet she seemed happy, second snippet she seemed less so, and by the third snippet it was clear that she was beyond done with Gary.

I get the sense that much of JL's response to Dani telling him he's the daddy has been directed by his mom. If it were up to him I'd guess that he would have just accepted what Dani said and went about his life. Not that he'd have jumped right in to be a supportive partner/dad, but he probably wouldn't push for a paternity test and might have just continued with some kind of casual connection with it all. That's him in all his immaturity. I'd bet good money that it's his mom pushing for the test and telling him that Dani was trying to trap him or is fooling him or whatever. Given his mom pushing him and Dani upset with him for asking, JL has decided to just stick his head in the sand and wish it would all go away (like the emotional 3-year-old he is). I think Dani knows this as well and though she says that she's dismayed at his asking for the test, she wasn't nearly as vehement about his jerkishness as Alli was. I read her as yes being insulted at the request, but also using it as a reason to just go it on her own with her baby without having to deal with any interference from JL. Not that she thinks it's going to be a breeze, but if she's able to afford to raise her daughter on her own, it's might not be a bad thing that she can do so without the complication of an immature, across-the-world, baby daddy. And truly if JL's mom is as pushy/managing as she appears to be? Dani's probably lucky to not have that be a part of her life. None of this is to suggest that I think raising a baby on your own is easy, most desirable, etc. This is all just my read given who Dani and JL have appeared to be.