Wayward Son

Going to post a reply in unpopular opinion threads. I really should have moved this discussion there before now.

Yes, of course the actors play a role in the shows success. I’m not saying J2 have contributed nothing. All I’m saying is that it isn’t /all/ due to them. IMO if the writing in season one was as poor as it is often is now, the music was terrible and uninspired, the special effects were half decent at best then the show would have flopped J2 or no J2. Equally, since as I acknowledged J2 did play a part, had they cast two actors with no talent and no on screen chemistry it would have also flopped. There are plenty of talented actors who’ve been a part of one season and done shows because it isn’t just the acting that makes a show successful it’s everything. The acting, the writing, the directing, location, special effects etc.

But nothing along those lines have been confirmed and fans are just speculating. I’ve been watching this show from season 2 and have seen so many assumptions that the show is going to end, only for it to go on, that I won’t take anything for granted until the official word is out. The show could end next year as many expect, but I also wouldn’t rule out it still being here by season 20 since the ratings are still going strong. Anyway, I anticipate WS being a one season and done deal and the cynic in me half wonders if the creatives expect it too and just want be in the position to say to critics “we gave you your girl power show and no one watched”

The cynic in me would argue the spin off is basically “we want our Male show to continue with its Male focus, so here’s a female show to keep you busy and let us continue telling our Male orientated story”. I personally don’t see how creating an exclusively female led show and keeping Supernatural with its current all male roster is going to change anything about the mother show once the spin off starts and Jody etc are no longer a part of SN -shrug-

I still believe the world building by figures such as Eric Kripke, Singer, Gamble and Manner, the effort on the part of Lennertz and Gruska to create a style of music unique to the show, the work of the special effects crew and directors to give the show a unique feel all played just as much a part of the shows success as J2. These figures IMO don’t get the credit they deserve because they aren’t as visible to the audience as the actors who appear on screen. Like I said, I’m sure this isn’t a particularly common viewpoint so let’s just agree to disagree.

I would argue that without J2, Eric Kripke and his initial team of talented writers, Kim Manners, a dedicated behind the scenes crew and the inclusion of loveable secondary characters such as Castiel, Crowley, Ellen, Pamela etc this show and the spin off actors wouldn’t be where they are today. Unpopular opinion but personally I think this fandom gives far too much credit to J2 for the shows success (since they’re the most visible) and shockingly little to the many writers and crew members who’ve put in a lot of hard work over the years. To be clear I’m not saying the deserve no credi just that they donthink deserve it all.

Nope, but I’m not surprised. Since season 11 Claire’s bond with Castiel has been forgotten and she has been transferred to Sam and Dean. Much like last season built up the Jack/Cas connection and instead the focus shifted to Sam/Jack and to a lesser extent Dean/Jack. Basically, if the show introduces a Cas orientated character the audience seems to like they’ll get stolen from Cas and shifted over to Sam and Dean.

We’ll written article I largely agree :)

For the actual episode the order was Kim Rhodes Kathryn Newton Briana Buckmaster Katherine Ramdeen Clark Backo Yadira Guevara Prip IMO that billing is likely based on their importance to Supernatural rather than what they’ll get if the show is still picked up. Based on the Claire centric nature of the episode I still think the order given in the summary above with NO ‘and’ credit is most likely.

I’m going with crush! I’m convinced the show will go the route of Kaia/Claire if picked up. It’ll be one of those stupid things people do to try and impress the person they’re crushing on.

Yay for Cas being with the boys! Now let’s just hope it lasts for more than one episode and he gets some Jack time too!

I had actually edited the post to clarify what I meant, but you must have seen it first.

Well I did say I’m sure there’s exception to the rule. Although, honestly, based on your posts here, your opinions often seem to align mainly with the Dean centric viewers on here and other places. And that’s not a dig or criticism. People enjoy what they enjoy lol

Unrounded ratings Supernatural ...................................... 0.604 ... (0.620 ... 0.587) Arrow ................................................. 0.470 ... (0.497 ... 0.444) Based On this I would say Supernatural is unlikely to adjust one away or the other. Arrow is in danger of adjusting down to 0.4 though. Does anyone know if Supernatural over ran or anything like that last night? I backread and apparently the last two episodes before hiatus had 102 and 103 interactions so that’s some jump! Although most shows seem to have made similar increases so obviously more people are in watching live this time of year.

I'm going to have an unpopular opinion (for on here at least) and state that I absolutely loved it and will definitely be a viewer if it is picked up to series. From browsing online the overall responses seem to be what I expected. Those who watch with an overall Team Free Will focus and prefer the presence of additional characters in a large capacity loved it while the bi-bros, Dean centric fans and Sam centric fans who primarily watch for one, or both, brothers disliked it. Of course I'm sure there are exceptions to those rules ;) As many anticipated the episode was a Claire centric one and, as a result, most of my initial thoughts relate to her and her relationship with the other. This in spite of the fact I'd consider myself more of a fan of Jody and Donna. Here's hoping they'll get character centric episodes too if the spin off is picked up. I found the disconnect between Claire's words to Jody and her actions throughout the episode rather interesting. During their argument Claire embraces Jody's view of her as utterly reckless and jumping into things without making a plan. While this may have been true in the past (wandering the woods with head phones on during a werewolf hunt, anyone?) it wasn't how we saw her behave during her solo hunt at the start of the episode. During this hunt we saw Claire come up with a plan, which would allow her to get close to the werewolves while luring them into a false sense of security before making her shot. Likewise, later in the episode she leaves a webcam connected to her phone behind in Jody's in order to a) confirm the validity of Patience's claims and b) to get an idea of the number of creatures we are dealing with. If we were mean to see her going into the Bad Place as a sign of headstrong then I feel Beren's did a poor job of it as Jody was earlier prepared to go into the rift on her own. It was only the sudden arrival of the creatures from The Bad Place that stopped her carrying out her plan. Is the disconnect a writing flaw on the part of Berens? Did he just put those smart Claire moments in for the sake of "yay girl power"? Or is it a deliberate foreshadowing of relationship issues between Jody and Claire they intend to further explore if Wayward Sisters is picked up? Another scene I enjoyed was the contrast between Alex's willingness to explore the corpse and Patience's squeamishness about the whole thing. I thought both reactions were very true to their respective background experiences. I also have to commend Bobo Berens on the fact Patience's first shot was a wild misfire. I'm sure the temptation to make her a natural shot was there, as many feared he would, but he refrained from making Alex, Kaia and Patience anymore skilled than they should be. Personally, I don't believe Kaia is dead for reasons I elaborate on later in the spoiler tag. I think it's going to be a case of she was still alive, barely, rather than actually dead. She was then possessed by one of the creatures from 'The Bad Place'. My reasons for this are twofold 1) I believe the creature examined earlier in the episode was their true form and 2) The use of dreamwalking magic seemed to be used which suggests the creature is channeling Kaia's abilities. If they had this ability on their own how come we never saw them before now? My only real complaint about the episode is the terrible CGI used for the gigantic monsters but I'm willing to ignore that LOL. Below are some thoughts based on words of Briana Buckmaster at a con. It is pretty much all speculation, but I'm going to put it in spoiler tags just in case. If it helps I'm another one in the "It's a great episode" camp :D I'd say it is consistent characterisation for Sam at least. He was also happy to flee the apocalypse world without Castiel back in All Along the Watch Tower, Claire clearly didn't want to and basically had to be dragged away. I'd say the only one it is arguably OOC for is Dean considering his different reaction back in 12x23. However, I think that can be explained away by the fact Kaia is a virtual stranger and nowhere near as important to him as Castiel and with a more neutral mindset Dean decided getting the people alive out was more important than retrieving a corpse. That scene reminded me of Sam going back to collect the burger Dean made in Trial and Error. Different circumstances I know, but that's what came to mind. Anything that is Dana Scully like should always be considered an excellent thing :D. Love me some Scully <3 I think the explanation was that Jack had the raw power to open portals, but lacked the ability to see between them in order to determine what world he is travelling to. Since Jack is still exploring his powers I wouldn't find it unbelievable if he later succeeded in mastering the ability to not only travel between worlds, but see between them too. As others have mentioned John too used his journal for writing personal notes. It is explicitly referenced in Home when Sam reads from it John's account of meeting Missouri i.e. "I went to Missouri and I learned the truth". In addition to this, it is interfered to by less explicit references such as a mention of John ripping pages about the case involving Adam's mother from the journal and Henry having an idea of just how terrible the brothers childhood was based on reading it alone. Except apparently Mary isn't very bright because she seemed shocked when Lady Toni talked about John in There's Something About Mary.

While still not quite as good as last week this week’s offering was still better than 90% of other things I watched. Best Moments - Michael’s sacrifice at the end: Wonderfully acted by Kristen and Ted. I’ve loved the development of their bond this season and the scene really shows how much both have gone. - “then I remembered im a naughty bitch” - Jason gets to save the day! I love that everyone on this show gets their chance to shine <3

I just found it interesting that they listed it that way in the episode summary. Although on reflection the “and” before Kaia could just be there because it’s a part of a proper sentence in this summary. There might not be “and” credit and she’s actually last. 1. Clare (first credit) 3. Jody 3. Alex 4. Donna 5. Patience 6. Kaia Jody as Second makes a lot more sense to me and in the case of Alex and Donna it could be CW being CW and prioritising a younger long term cast member, or Katherine has the better agent.

I don’t see it that way based on Dean’s behaviour prior to the angels arrival. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I suspect this order from the synopsis for tonight’s episode will be the casting order if picked up If true that means the priority order will be: 1. Clare (first credit) 2. Kaia (and credit) 3. Jody 4. Alex 5. Donna 6. Patience

Technically, he apologised that she got sucked into an angel battle. He didn’t apologise for terrorising her by threatening to assault her at best and murder her at worst. He showed no indication he’d have felt a Sorry was needed if things had gone according to plan and they got Mary out.

On the plus side, at least the chances of Dean deciding to terrorise a vulnerable young woman with a gun again are slim!

We haven’t seen Donna in two years. I for one believe the audience are expected to be smart enough to realise that a lot can happen in two years including Donna becoming more actively involved in the world of hunting she learnt about.

Coincidentally I am in the process of rewatching The Bad Place. I actually think they could feasibly make Kaia a decent hunter. We know she has been spending years going to the bad place every night via her dreams. What we don’t know is; is she there the whole night? She can be hurt while there so does she have a physical body rather than just viewing things? And if so does that mean she has had to learn to survive in that environment which would build skills that could be transferred to hunting. I’m not saying they will go this route just that at this point it is possible. I totally agree Patience should be next to useless though.

Agreed with all this! Plus, IIRC we haven’t seen her in two years ((Plush was her last episode) so they are pretty free to say she has been hunting actively on the side without contradicting established canon. Fair enough re Patience and Kaia. I was responding to @ILoveReading comment about Donna in particular :)