Wayward Son

I totally disagree with this. It’s been made clear that Dean was John’s good little soldier growing up. IMO Dean wouldn’t have interferred if John were to throw a punch at Sam for too much sass growing up, or as punishment for running away. Now if John had ever totally lost it and it looked like John would have beaten Sam to death Dean would have interferred, but throwing a punch or two during an argument wouldn’t have been protested IMO. It would have been seen as an acceptable form of corporal punishment within the context of their twisted upbringings. Plus just look at how often adult Sam and Dean resort to using their fists when arguing with one another. They’re not the type of family to be afraid to turn physical during an argument.

We thankfully managed to keep the 0.5 :)

Reader Discussion @takalotti @trxr4kids (lurking) How (thanks to Gabriel) Dean and Castiel (accidentally) raised each other (and Sam) Chapter 15 I like that the author acknowledges Dean's tendency to try and make decisions for others along with his dismissive nature towards human Cas and has Cas instantly reject such notions! Go fanfic Cas! The Supernatural version of Joss Whedon's Once More With Feeling. I suppose fandom had to do it at some point. I couldn't get into it most likely because I kept comparing it (unfavourably) to the Buffy episode. I think my main problem is that it was just used as a convenient tool to push the Destiel relationship forward. I would have liked to have seen the singing reveal further deeper nuances to the characters psyche rather than simply a ship propelling tool. The best part of the chapter for me was Cas' sheer disgust at the inaction of the town people. I could imagine canon Cas having a similar initial reaction when confronted with such a scenario, at least in his earlier seasons. I also thought the debate with regard to whether Gabriel's punishment of the town folk equated to hunting was interesting. Although I'm firmly of the opinion that the two things are not the same. Inaction is not the same as murder and the human world has human rules for dealing with human murderers. Chapter 16 I loved the talk between Gabriel and Castiel about Cas making the most of Dean's 'final days'. I thought the author did a good job of remaining true to the spirit of their canon counterparts :). Gabriel was the right mix of snarky and caring. Although it would have been intriguing to see Cas treated to a Mystery Spot trial of his own or with Sam haha. The Ice cream promise :'( As is the norm for both canon and fanon I really don't get Sabriel. I don't think I've managed to read a fic yet, which succeeded in convincing me how these two would fall for one another... Hahahaha at Ruby's death scene. Sorry Ruby, but you missed with the wrong hunter and angel gang LOL That's all I had time to read, but I'm looking forward to reading about Cas and Sam marching into hell to get Dean back!

Unrounded Rating Supernatural ................... 0.460 ... (0.460 ... 0.460) Arrow .............................. 0.383 ... (0.378 ... 0.389) We could be in for another 0.4 :s

So, so true!

Up from last weeks series low of 0.4 to a 0.5 this week! Viewers still on the low side though :(

Eh, it’s not just Dean working hard to save Mary everyone is working hard to save someone who doesn’t want to be saved.

It mightn’t change anything, but I’ll take the personal satisfaction of the others acknowledging Dean was wrong. If only someone would point out it should have been Sam who went seeing as he never gave up on Mary or Jack while Dean started the season all “eh, she’s dead so just leave it “

I hadn’t thought of that as a possible outcome, but now I hope it happens like that.

Of course! I should have plenty of fic reading time this weekend! I might even try and read a few of the remaining chapters tonight :D Since the Down to Agincourt series is quite long, I believe the first part is 150k words long and the entire saga is 1 million, we could also read some shorter fics alongside it? Especially since @catrox14 suggested a pace of only one chapter a day.

I’m delighted that the episode will feature a Cas/Sam pairing! I always enjoy seeing them work together. While I’m not quite as excited by the Ketch / Dean pairing I am looking forward to it also. Ackles and DHJ work well together :)

((Sorry meant to post this in the regular spoilers thread))

Never mind.

Reading Discussion (planning) @takalotti Sorry I must have missed it, or saw it and forgot to respond. I’m going to try and read it on Saturday! The fic description sounds interesting :D

I’d be interested in reading it with you :)

Yay for Sam and Cas working together scene <3 . Random question but is it just me or does Misha look especially small next to Jared?

Ah yes I’d forgotten about the attack dog spell. Although I personally wouldn’t use it against Cas either since once again he was forced into it against his will. IMO I agree that it doesn’t show us a victim-abuser dynamic. I’d say if one wants to be cynical it shows Cas can be an unreliable ally as it is all too easy for external forces to use him against Dean.

I don’t think so? Did we ever see Sam exhibit control over anything other than demons? This isn’t an attempt to be snarky either. I honestly don’t remember him using his abilities on humans or non demonic supernatural creatures (vampires, werewolves etc).

I agree that MoC Cas and Dean would have been an even fight, actually it was the one instance where Dean proved to have the superior physical strength. However, IMO Castiel’s intention was to restrain not beat on MOC Dean. My original post was to @gonzosgirrl whose post characterisated Castiel as a recurring physical abuser of Dean until he finally got his comeuppance when MOC Dean gave him a beating back. I was asking when exactly did these frequent beatings of Dean occur. As far as I recall their fights have been. • The alley scene in Point of No Return (I already conceded Cas was wrong here) • The Crypt Scene in Goodbye Stranger (IMO its pretty gross to blame Cas for this, or see it as some sort of reflection of their relatjonship, since he’d been subjected to months of torture, brainwashing and conditioning prior to this) • The fight between MoC Dean and Cas in the bunker. This was actually a fight where Dean was the physically stronger one, but even if he hadn’t been IMO Cas’ aim was to restrain rather than gratuitously beat on Dean. Are there any significant Cas vs Dean scenes I’m missing which warrant this characterisation of him as Dean’s long term abuser? Because IMO one scene eight seasons ago isn’t enough to deem it an abuser - victim dynamic.

I think leaving her might be the plan and it is probably for the best. Her resurrection has been such a waste and not at all worth it IMO. The last two seasons have simply been a series of nonsensical excuses to keep her away from the brothers, often character damaging ones at that, because they know the Mary we knew from seasons 1-11 would have moved in with her boys and got to know them and this show is far too cowardly to try promoting someone else to full time.

Now that would have been funny! Although I would amend that from “some” to “all” of the tip. She didn’t deserve a cent from them IMO. Rudeness should never be awarded.

The spoiler sheet is complied using publicly available information. The list of appearances is usually based on things such as; fans recording the show while it’s filming in a public space, or one of the actors tweeting about their journey to Vancouver or how much they’re enjoying their time there. She has been known to get things wrong on occasion for example assuming an actor is in Vancouver for SN, but it’s actually for another show or missing out actors who are more low key. Christian Keyes could still be in future episodes as a result. It may just be that none of his scenes have taken place in public spaces for example he may have been present for the curtained off J2M scene in 13x22. Since he’s a guest star they wouldn’t have. Recurring guest stars, like Christian Keyes, work on an episode by episode basis. They have no commitments to the show, and likewise the show has no commitment to the actor if they decide to drop storylines, and the actor is therefore free to pursue better opportunities (such as a starring role) elsewhere. That’s the key difference between recurring guests and the series regulars (Misha, Mark P and Alexander). The series regulars have formal contracts with the show. The contracts usually include things such as; a set number of episodes they’ll appear in that season, the amount they’ll be paid, potential billing obligations (for example Misha now has the “And” billing) and the actors are obliged to put Supernatural commitments first. For example Eric Kripke stated he wanted to make Misha a large part in an episode of Timeless last season. However, due to commitments with Supernatural he was forced to reduce the part as they only had Misha for a days filming. Had Misha been a guest star that season he’d have been in the position to ask the show to not use Cas for that particular episode as he had a prior commitment with Timeless. The obligation to put the show first can often be the deciding factor on whether an actor wants to make a recurring guest or regular. Jim Beaver was actually offered a series regular role (IIRC it was offered when they first promoted Misha back in season 5)), but Jim rejected the offer as he enjoyed the flexibility and lack of commitment a recurring guest role allowed.

I’m a Cas fan but I doubt that’ll be the case. Ever since Dabb has taken over its more likely to be the other way around I.e. Cas does something stupid and the brothers save the day because apparently Dabb can’t write everyone good and competent.

When exactly are you referring to in the bit in bold? The only other time I recall Cas beating on Dean like this was the crypt scene in Goodbye Stranger, and seeing as Cas has been tortured, mind controlled and conditioned for months prior to this fight it would be pretty gross to blame the victim for his actions here. So when exactly did Cas beat on Dean other than Point of No Return? And for what it’s worth I agree Cas was wrong to beat him up during PoNR? Also, I don’t recall Cas trying to ‘beat on’ MOC Dean either. He tried to restrain them. There’s a difference.

Replying in the all episodes thread.