Wayward Son

A lovely interview with Misha! Warning there’s a picture that’s NSFW or at least it might raise an awkward moment if a fellow employee were walking by LOL https://craftcouncil.org/magazine/article/builder-baker-angel-maker

Thanks both of you for the clarification :)

Whether it’s availablity or pay issues the show seems to have been quite reticent about showing us AU versions of human characters. Other than Jim Beaver (who reappears at least once a season anyway) they’ve only brought back Osric Chau. The rest of the characters have been angels played by entirely different actors. IMO chances are either Steven Williams wasn’t available or they couldn’t afford to bring him back. So the gun being called Rufus was their shoutout to the character instead. Since I don’t believe they’ve ever recast a human character?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

Maybe Steven Williams wasn’t available? And they wanted to at least give the character a shout out?

Fair enough. Quick Question; assuming you’re right and the show wants to vindicate Mary. Why do you find it hard to believe the entire concept of the Apocalypse world wasn’t a part of their plan to absolve her? You know basically “OK so some fans think she’s horrible for accepting that deal. Well why don’t we create a world where she didn’t accept the deal and show how much worse the alternative would have been?” If anything a butterfly effect seems like it would fit into your “absolve Mary” agenda to me. Overall, I’d love to hear your answer to my question, but beyond that it’s probably best we end the discussion since we’ll just go round in circle. I just want to say though since both both worlds have a number of people in common (Lucifer, Michael, Zachariah, John, Mary, Bobby, Kevin) and events in common (Lucifer’s fall, the demon deal, John and Mary meet and fall in love) it doesn’t seem as simple as “both worlds are different and in no way mirror or contrast each other” to me :)

No one was asking you to “defend” yourself. I simply asked for your interpretation of his words since you mentioned it was different to mine. Anyway, I think we can end this discussion here. Have a nice day.

I’m not sure what’s so funny about it? There are plenty of times where characters on this show and others are shown to be wrong o.o

I’m curious. If you think Bobby doesn’t believe in the butterfly effect. Why from your perspective did he say what he did?

Fair enough. Although. IMO that’s the belief AU Bobby was acting on in this episode, and that’s why he said Mary made the right choice as our world seems to be better off than his. Bobby may not be correct, fictional characters can be wrong after all, but that certainly seems to be what he believes. His words don’t make sense otherwise IMO.

One doesn’t exclude the other? Bobby could have easily named his gun after that worlds Rufus in memory of him.

I really don’t think I can offer much more evidence than I’ve given. So far, based on what we’ve been told, the two worlds have a pretty similar history. In both worlds Lucifer was cast down from heaven and in both worlds individuals such as Bobby Singer, Mary Campbell, and John Winchester were born. We also know that in both worlds Mary Campbell fell in love with John Winchester and she was offered a demon deal. Castiel states in 12x23 that the worlds are different because AU world is one where Sam and Dean were never born. This episode further develops this by telling us that the reason they weren’t born is that AU Mary said no to a demon deal and lost her John. All the explicit differences in worlds we’ve been told about take place after AU Mary’s refusal of the deal. The events prior to that seem to be quite similar based on what we’ve been told so far. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree although the conversation between Mary and Bobby in this episode makes a lot more sense if the two worlds are meant to be seen as ones which diverge from the night their respective Mary accepted or refused the deal.

As I said IMO our world and AU world are the result of two different choices Mary Campbell made in 1973. One world she accepted the deal and the other she didn’t. That is why AU Bobby believes she made the right call making the deal because as sucky lives as Sam and Dean have left at least our world isn’t an apocalyptic mess. Why could they not have lived identical lives before Mary did/didn’t make the deal with Azazel?

Thanks for pointing out the proper title :) . I still stand by my belief that Dean as the righteous man could be loosely considered “a holy man” and while there are multiple candidates out there he’s the holy man they’ll go for next episode.

I’ve gotten that from the fact that when the AU first appeared they emphasised the differences between the two words were due to the fact that Sam and Dean were never born, and this episode explicitly states they were never born as AU!Mary turned down a demon deal. IMO AU Bobby’s belief the differences between worlds shows our Mary made the right choice makes sense if you see it as follows. Mary 1 (our Mary) and Mary 2 (AU Mary) lived identical lives prior to the night Azazel offered her a death. They were both born to Deanna and Samuel Campbell, they both grew up in the hunter life and wanted out and ultimately both fell in love with John Winchester. The worlds went off on different paths starting with the night Azazel offered that deal. Mary 1 chose to take the deal and lived the life we’ve known about since the pilot. Mary 2 chose to reject the deal and stayed in the hunter life never able to truly move on from John until she was ultimately killed by some unknown demon. IMO, based on what we’ve been told so far, every difference between the worlds is a result of that one pivotal moment.

I think from the shows perspective this isn’t entirely true. I believe the show is trying to tell us that prior to Mary making that deal with Azazel for John’s life in 73 the characters were all the exact same. The differences between AU Mary, AU Bobby, AU Michael and our versions of them are entirely due to their different experiences since 1973.

I’m not going to go as far as @Castiels Cat and say we are definitely getting the Dean!Michael arc some posters are hoping for. I’m about 50/50 on that right now. But Im fairly confident (like 99% certain) that next episode will at least revisit Dean as the righteous man due to the need of his blood for the spell. Especially since we’ve already had an episode where Dean’s blood was the key component of a spell this season.

Just watched the episode and I, more strongly than ever, feel that Dean will be the most holy man! Once Cas mentioned the word blood it clicked for me. We’ve already had an episode this season which focused on Dean’s blood as part of a spell (coincidentally another Glynn episode IIRC) and now it’ll be once more needed for another one. The Scorpion and the Frog was totally foreshadowing Dean’s blood for this spell.

Haha, trust me, on this site fans are angry because she “doesn’t tuck in Dean at night” is the better descriptor ;)

woohoo we kept the 0.6 :D

Hi and welcome to the forum! You’ve a lot of fun twists and turns to witness this! And you haven’t even been introduced to the shows best character yet! He arrives in season 4 ;)

That’s because that’s exactly what I think would happen if they reduced the episode count, and I’ve no use in Sam, Dean and the MOTW only episodes hence no interest in a episode reduction. I’d rather the show just ended altogether.

We would see far less Castiel at 13 episodes imo. Best case scenario (for Cas fans like myself) they’ll readjust Misha’s regular contract, so it accounts for the reduced episode count and he will appear in the same percentage of episodes i.6 6/7-13 rather than 11-13/23. They’d never even consider allowing Cas to appear in 11-13/13 IMO. Worst case scenario they’ll get rid of all the series regulars and keep Sam and Dean as the only regulars with Cas, Jack and Lucifer written off altogether, or reduced to guests who appear in an episode or two. IMO a part of the series regular function was to allow for J2 to have time off. That is why a large portion of Crowley and Cas’ screentime have been separate to the brothers for the past few seasons. A reduced episode counts means less need for J2 time off and thus less need for regulars. Overall, I could see it go back to the Sam and Dean only show and since I’m not a bronly my response to that is thanks, but no thanks.

I’d rather things stay the way they are than a reduction of episode count and everyone else not J2 being cut. Thanks but no thanks.