Wayward Son

Heh let’s hook up Dean and Benny (they’re welcome to each other), give Sam a new character girlfriend and Cas a new character boyfriend (or bring back Inias’) and problem sorted ;)

Ugh at that awful, horrible, unoriginal cliche of a Gary Stu character being back.

Birmingham is on the list too... I’m assuming this years first Creation Convention was a flop sales wise.

I think we can agree to disagree as IMO even with his background Sam had no reason to consider the nightmares as anything more than that. Not with the knowledge he had at that point. I see that as entirely different to Mary who was explicitly told YED would be coming for something in ten years time. So yeah agree to disagree is best because I honestly find your expectation of Sam unrealistic.

I just don't get why Sam should have automatically jumped to = "I am a psychic and these dreams are real." Sam grew up with the knowledge of what had happened to his mother and his dream could have just as easily been the result of a subconscious fear that his life with Jessica was going to be ruined. Even with knowledge of hunters and monster it is uncommon for hunters to start getting real visions. Since Sam had no knowledge of the demon blood, psychic kids etc Sam had no reason to think his dreams were the beginning of a psychic growth as opposed to sub-conscious fears manifesting as dreams.

To be fair to Sam it was easy to put the nightmares down as just that nightmares considering what happened to Mary. IIRC he never had visions before that to make him suspect what he was dreaming was anything more than a standard nightmare.

I’m also reading and posting from my iPhone so maybe that is why I was able to see it as a smiley ?. And sorry for briefly going off topic everyone.

Yes that’s also an option. It’ll be interesing to see where the writers go. With Jack, AU Michael and Lucifer all on the field as potential big bads depending on story direction I honestly have no clue haha

Random, but yay that the forum software has smiley now .

I have no committed thoughts on what the writers have planned for Jack in the long term so I’m not committed to any of the options I am about to list. However, I could foresee one of the following happening: - If they want to keep Jack on the show long term due to a positive reaction then I could see them having Lucifer take some or possibly all of Jack’s grace. This would result in Jack’s powers being lessened enough that he could remain on the show without overshadowing Sam and Dean and making conflicts too easy. - If they want to get rid of him as a regular, but leave the door open for future storylines, then I could see them making him become ruler of the AU world. That would effectively separate him from our world and also prove Jack’s vision to Cas true in a way none of the characters would expect (although a lot of fans have guessed) - If they want him to be a one season and done character then they could easily have him fall from grace (figuratively) and become an out and out bad guy who is destroyed by the end of the season.

Im going to reply to the bit in bold in the speculation only thread. It’s just going to be thoughts of mine rather than anything based on spoilers hence posting there rather than Spoilers and Speculations :)

Oh I agree that viewing it as an entirely selfish decision is erroneous and missing some of the nuances of the situation. As I said I think there were selfish elements of the decision, but it wasn’t an entirely selfish decision. I wasn’t really trying to ‘disprove’ your position or anyone else’s, but rather share my view that the truth lies somewhere in the middle :).

@catrox14 is usually better at remembering this type of thing, but I like to think Castiel spends time with the brothers on their days off. I can’t remember specifics off the top of my head (hopefully catrox will be able to), but I’m fairly certain I vaguely recall references to movies Dean and Castiel (and presumably Sam too) have watched together off screen.

Since I don’t actually condemn Dean for the deal I intend to make a quick post on it and move on :) . IMO Dean’s deal at the end of season two was both selfless and selfish depending on how one perceived it. Contradictory sounding I know but how I see it. On the one hand, it could be argued that there was selfishness to what Dean did. Based on Dean’s actions, suffering in hell but knowing his brother was alive was preferable in Dean’s mind to living on earth with the knowledge Sam is dead. Could it not then be argued that it was selfish of Dean to force Sam to live on earth knowing he is dead with the additional knowledge Dean was not only dead, but suffering in hell to boot? Dean failed to consider that maybe Sam would have preferred to stay dead than live knowing Dean sacrificed himself for Sam’s sake just as Dean has made the decision to save Sam rather than live. From that perspective there’s a clear argument the deal was selfish. On the other hand, condemning yourself to eternal damnation so someone else can live is a pretty amazing thing to do. The strength it must have taken to condemn yourself like that would have been pretty immense. Like I said, overall I don’t condemn Dean’s decision to make the deal. However, I do think both those who see it as selfish and those who see it as selfless have valid points to offer. I don’t think it’s as simple as “Dean’s a selfish dick leaving poor Sam to suffer like that” or “he’s an amazing brother and how dare Sam be ungrateful” but somewhere in between.

I think we were meant to believe that Frank was good, but Charlie was better! But regardless I think it’s unrealistic to expect Frank to have had time to reach Dean all his tricks in one single afternoon. But Im gonna day let’s agree to disagree and make this my last post on the topic :)

Agreed! Sam and Dean both are novices who know a little about it. Charlie was a full on genius at hacking. Hacking for her is what hunting was to Sam and Dean.

Indeed. IMO expecting Dean to be better at hacking than someone like Charlie from a single afternoon session is like expecting someone to be better hunters than Sam and Dean after a single day.

Some random thoughts on Jack and Lucifer. This is dependent on the speculation of some users on here that Jack’s popularity will lead to them wanting to keep him. What if the writers solution to the issue of his powers is to have his grace drained, or at least somewhat weakened by Lucifer. That would serve the purpose of weakening Jack so he isn’t too powerful and setting Lucifer as bigger and badder than ever before.

I’d argue that there’s a difference between the skill gained from being taught hacking in a single afternoon to the skill displayed by a full on computer and hacking genius like Charlie.

So basically you want Dean to have everything. He has to be seen as Sam’s academic equal and just as capable as Sam in that area AND superior to Sam in all things mechanical/engineering.

He is. That’s why CompanionEnvy made the point of saying despite his initial reservations and judgement Sam quickly adapted to using these methods too.

That’s how I see it. Sam isn’t as good as Dean at car repair but he isn’t totally useless at it either.

I’m talking about emotional connection and history. Azazel murdered Sam’s girlfriend, contaminated him with demon blood, had him stalked all his life on top of the general crappy childhood he caused both by killing Mary. Ramiel was a MOTW with no prior connection to the boys. Not the same thing.

Dean already got to kill YED instead of Sam. Dean doesn’t need any more exchanges in the kill to make things even. And LOL I might as well keep my viewpoint consistent ;)

No, no, no, no, no to the idea of Dean getting to be the one to kill Lucifer! He deserves it least. It should be Sam or Cas (and evenCas is a long way behind Sam on the ‘has the right to kill Lucifer list’). Dean already got to kill YED despite him affecting Sam more. Sam deserves to kill Lucifer.