RealReality

I think Candace does own her part, and has apologized. For instance, she apologized to Gizelle at the start of the last season, because she realized she shouldn't have said what she said about Gizelle's tacky house. She made her peace with Ashley, IIRC, and apologized to her at the start of last season which is why she was hurt when Ashley decided to write that statement as payback. As for the situation at the winery, I'm not sure what part she had to apologize for. Saying "drag me" doesn't mean that its Candace's fault that Monique physically attacked her. Daring someone doesn't make you accountable for their actions. If I dared you to a street race and the police only caught you, am I responsible for your decision to engage in a street race? I don't think so. And focusing on "drag me" ignores that multiple times Candiace walked away from Monique or simply apologized to her to avoid Monique's very clear instigation. Monique was offended that Candiace wouldn't show up on her podcast to be a punching bag. That depends, how many wicks do your candles have?

True. Both G and Mia are trash, IMO. Him literally going around and telling everyone to shush so they could hear that conversation about the G-Wagon was the most cringey thing of the season, knocking back Juan's dismissive call to second place. Just ugh, ugh, ugh. No, no, no. I'm sure she will have the G-Wagon, but they very clearly set up this moment for the show, and its just so thirsty and attention seeking. I wonder if that was just a friend or employee on the phone pretending to be from the dealership. I just can't. Ick. Talking about Wendy having her boobs out isn't appropriate for a girls trip, but this man is making all kids of leering faces, pantomiming a giant penis, telling everyone he is hung, asking where the white women at and Mia talking about how she is gonna have to give him sex is somehow an Emily Post level of etiquette. But geez, that conversation about the car, that was worse than the "valet" comments, which again, are ridiculous. People who are comfortable in their wealth don't need to remind you that they can't carry their luggage and like their drawers folded into swan shapes. Its just a line of demarcation to separate yourself from the "dirty poors" and its unbecoming. You don't need to keep reminding people that you have more money than them, they get it.

I respect that, though I'd say that I'm not sure economic privilege automatically confers as much actual privilege as people may think. However, I'm thrilled to have a differing point of view that hasn't devolved into salad throwing, hand waving and 'yo momma jokes. LOL. Guess I don't need anyones candles since this convo is all zen and what not :) That was so weird. If Ashley wanted to do all that, she should have gotten the picture put on a tee shirt.

If you want to involve someone's mother in show drama then your mother is rightfully fair game for any show drama. Including "yo momma" jokes. Which, to me aren't even particularly offensive because they are such an 90s take on insult comedy. People used to sit around razzing their friends with 'yo momma jokes in the 90s. And Candiace's "yo' momma is low budget" ismaybe the tamest 'yo momma joke I have ever heard. In fact, in my fifteen seconds of google research there was a show called "yo momma" and here is a taste of how much worse those jokes can go

Rich people can also be jerks financially. J. Paul Getty was an infamously cheap. I'd say a rich child knows for sure they aren't going to starve or risk being homeless. But, whether its fair or not, a rich person doesn't owe their child a great standard of living.

Dorothy hit her grown child out of anger. The comfort in doing that is something rare and ugly, IMO. The implication that Candiace had some ideal childhood because of money and status is flawed to me. Rich people beat, belittle, abuse and demean their children too. See the Menendez brothers.

"I was put into foster care" was enough of an explanation. I cannot imagine that there is some public record of the reasoning for a state agencies decision to put Mia into the system. The public record on Mia's mother's case wouldn't have been anything shocking or earth shattering. Sounds like a history of financial crimes to support a nasty drug habit. So, I don't think a single thing Mia did was in her mothers best interest. Particularly since all Mia has done has brought her on national TV and browbeat her and embarrassed her. Mia seems to have brought her mother onto the show for sympathy. Which she gets from me for her childhood, but nothing else.

With a mother like Dorothy I don't think her life was a cakewalk at all. I'd suspect that Robyn probably had the easiest time of all of them, her dad is a dentist I think? So, they were likely fairly well off, they are still together and seemed okay with each other so they were probably fairly happy and provided a happy environment for their children. To me, everyone has their struggles or had their struggles.

To the first point, I'm not in the Bravo extended universe, but I have to think that Andy may not completely hate Candiace, because her song snippet played at least 7 times, there was a whole episode dedicated to the filming of the video and at the end it felt like they played about 20-30 seconds of the song. While it may have been the editors/producers putting it all together, I feel like Andy is the big cheese, and could have limited the number of times the song was played...which is basically free advertisement if he truly hated Candiace. I certainly don't think Andy Cohen is above petty revenge. The second point I totally agree with, and this it particularly applied to Monique, who I think a lot of people felt was the most down to earth and relatable housewife, despite her marriage to a millionaire baller. She was a Christian wife and mother, who was dedicated to being those two things. We didn't really see how unfulfilled she was until later. Candace may seem a little less relatable to the general viewership, she is younger, she doesn't have any kids so she doesn't have the same struggles, she was born into a more privileged position, she is a pageant girl, she is seeking an MBA and she is doing this whole singing/acting career. She is preppy and pretty. And while the other women may have one of two of the same things, Candace is the one who has ALL those things. So, I think when she rightfully shoots back, it may feel a little like the mean, rich cheerleader Heather type picking on someone.

But then, by the same concept, none of these women should claim that Candace has to walk on eggshells when she insults Mia about her mother just because of Mia's history and her mother's history. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander. If Mia can talk about moms then Candace can talk about Moms too. If Ashley can talk about Ray getting raped in prison, Karen can turn the joke around on her. If Ashley wants to body shame Charisse for having t-rex arms, then she shouldn't claim some special exception because of her status as a "new mommy" when she is called wide bodied. If Ashley wants to come at a mentally fragile Katie, she shouldn't expect to be treated with kid gloves because she has PP depression. If Gizelle wants to talk about Wendy's marriage and relationship, she shouldn't claim some special outrage when Wendy talks about her relationship history.

That feels worse than Ashley joking about Ray getting raped in prison? That didn't cut deep or go dark?

If your goal is to take your opponent out then why wouldn't shutting them up be an acceptable outcome? It seems the most acceptable outcome. Ashley picked on someone who was mentally weak and probably wasn't of sound mind to even make the decision to be on the show when she went after Katie. Ashley made jokes about Ray getting raped in prison. But candace is so mean! when she takes down someone of equal mind who comes at her.. what did Ray ever do to Ashley to deserve a prison rape joke? To have his penis described as dried up on national TV?

To me that is textbook Ashley behavior. She routinely says something shitty and then has a reason why anything said to her is SO MUCH WORSE AND SO DIFFERENT. Candiace worked double, triple time to avoid a confrontation with monique last season and had twice walked away from monique very clearly trying to instigate something with her. At the dinner candace just apologized to monique instead of engaging with her and at the lakehouse she literally walked away from an enraged for no good reason monique. She refused to do moniques podcast to avoid confrontation (which immediately upset monique, because I guess candace was supposed to volunteer to be her punching bag). This idea of some over the top provocation is ridiculous to me because candace walked away so often, was she never going to be allowed to say anything back to monique?

IMO thats a difference without a distinction.

They should have just ended the show. The writing has gotten bad, IMO. I could watch Corey Stoll eat a granny Smith apple for an hour every Sunday and be fine. And I think the actor is good enough to be the "anti axe" axe, so I'll tune in next year. I also think they have some interesting set ups for next season. I just wish Wendy would get on a plane too. A plane to anywhere really.

LOL. This reminds me of this hot club in hollywood we used to go to back in the day (the bouncer was obsessed with my friend, so we always got in). There was always this elderly guy in a suit, like Ray's age. I guess he had money but I always kinda felt sorry for him, I barely wanted to be there in my 20s, I couldn't imagine how much of a hassle it was to get going at 70. Anyways, apparently he was loaded, but still, kinda sad. Who wants to be around a bunch of hip/obnoxious/wanna be/aspiring actors,dancers,singers,producers desperate for attention in your 70s?

Oh thats funny, I was like "this guy isn't the killer Bach promised!"

This. This is Mia's very first season on the show and so she probably could have just survived on the mystery surrounding her origin story and the multiple fights and conflicts she insists on starting. SHE made the decision to exploit her mother for a storyline. So, I don't see how she now feels that she has some grounds to demand that her mother not be discussed. I feel like most people had a similar conversation about Eddie's cheating rumors, and it was like "well, if she is on the show, it doesn't matter how much it bothers Wendy, they all have a right to bring it up" And in Wendy's case she never brought up the rumors, but Mia has put her mothers business on front street. I think Kenya was on the show for like 6 or 7 seasons before we saw her try to confront her mother. Guess Mia was desperate, but thats on her and her alone.

Mia brought her own mother on this show knowing her criminal history and has made it a part of her storyline. Had she not done that, I might agree, but Mia shouldn't exploit her mother for a sympathetic storyline and then get mad when she is the topic of discussion. When Marlo was shitty to Kenya over her mother, I thought that was an awful thing to say, but you gotta chalk it up to the game. Particularly if the housewife in question has made a conscious decision to put their mother and estranged relationship on national TV.

If a housewife cannot fight with words, she should apply for a remake of bad girls club. Candiace's family has been discussed plenty on the show. These women aren't supposed to be bite, they are supposed to be all bark.

The women use their words as weapons, and this is what they are supposed to do on this show. Mike Tyson used his fists when he was in the ring. Even if his opponent was weaker, I still wasn't mad about a TKO. People shouldn't get in the ring with Candiace if they are going to be offended when she says something really mean or petty in response to something that say that is just kinda mean and petty. If Candiace is responding to someone who decided to step into the metaphorical ring with her, I'm probably not going to clutch pearls when she lays them out.

I thought it was a pretty good finale. A real M. Night Shamalayan twist on the leaker, I really didn't see it coming! Wendy continues to be written so ridiculous that I almost cannot suspend my disbelief. "If I had time, I'd tear you two apart" Girl, with what? Your basic ass mind games? "You won't even recognize yourself in five years!" sniffle, sniffle. I also have no idea why Mike Prince needs her, exactly what is she going to do for him, get the traders in line? Even if she could, its not worth the risk since her loyalty is very clearly to Axe, they all want to make money. Whatever "valuable service" Wendy provided is impossible without Axe and she is far too involved. The only reason I can think that Prince wanted Wendy was just to screw over Axe, or maybe to keep Axe from trying to tank the company from afar. And thats just kinda sad for the character. For all her education, training and attempts at "badassery" she would merely be demoted to a pawn without any intrinsic or inherent value. Either way, I did like the ending, because I think we get a new (and much cuter) antagonist for both Axe and Chuck and this may force them to work together again. I also like that Prince is much more polished than Axe, so he will be harder to bring down for Chuck. I doubt Prince is flying out to wherever to give a "greed is good" speech. I like that Dollar Bill and Mafee are doing their own thing and think that may be interesting. I also like the Rian and Taylor may work together to get from under Prince's thumb. Please someone put Wendy on a plane to Switzerland ASAP. I swear, I was thinking like "is she going to talk about those kids she never seems to care about?" And right on cue, she sure did. Axe wouldn't even WANT such a woman!

Good. Because parrot gave me a hilarious visual.

Lacey's slow pedal to nowhere was a highlight of the show. I have no idea why Nichole or Daonte thinks that threesome would be hot and sexy. Its sounds awful, and you might get COVID just walking into the room. Speaking of COVID, what the hell was Shawn doing with that mask? Throw your tomatoes at me, but I felt sorry for Nichole and while I believe she wants some money, I also believed her when she said she enjoyed the normalcy of just getting a ride home from someone who is stable. Is Tia planning on trying to get a job at some point?

Brittney wants someone who looks like Ray and is nice. I don't know what her big secret is, but she has gained A LOT of weight from the photos she has on the show. She may not think that she can attract a man in the free world with a good job who looks like Ray and is as chilled and willing to wear those screenprinted tees. Brittney also wants to move very, very, very fast, and that may put a lot of guys off. I feel like her mom and dad may overestimate what she brings to the table. I don't see why they couldn't at least say hello to him and I think Brittney should have done a trail run before she actually had Ray get in the car so he could be rejected. Like just go over there one day to visit by herself, tell them ray is in the car and see what reaction she got. I kinda wonder how they would feel if Brittney met some guy who was wealthy, came from money and was some investment banker. How would they feel if that guys family decided that they wouldn't even lay eyes on Brittney until she could bring an equal amount of money to the table? IMO, she met Shawn so she could string him along for more money while she gets her life on track. As with you, I am totally fine with it. "I moved here for you" is become "I have 50,000 on the line" version 2.0