RealReality

And those people will be the same ones who want to beat someone's ass when they don't get an extra ranch dressing with their order or will shoot up a grocery store when they are asked to wear a mask. I don't think anyone should live their life in fear of what I hope is a relatively small minority.

A 'yo momma joke is a joke about a woman you've almost certainly never met. Its a common insult joke genre and the thought that anyone would beat someone up over a 'yo momma joke reminds me of that scene in Boondocks about some people going to war over absolutely nothing. If someone takes their mother's honor so seriously that they can't handle a 'yo momma joke, there is a good chance that they cannot handle anything in life, because losing your mind and resorting to violence over a joke is not a normal response. Particularly one as benign as a 'yo momma joke. This would be like someone losing their shit at a Gallegher show. Candace doesn't need to watch her mouth because there are insane people who would beat someone up over a 'yo momma joke anymore than I need to watch my mouth because someone may be offended that I order a diet coke. I guess some people are raised for their sad fate, because if you go around with a skin so thin that you would beat someone up over a well recognized joke genre, its not long before you'll end up meeting your match or behind bars. I would hope that most people are raised not to risk their freedom over something as trivial as a 'yo momma joke. But if thats how someone is raised, they have probably been raised to physically attack someone over a LOT of things and are just as likely to find as offense as my diet coke order.

Lisa doesn't want to be "paid for sex" she wants to be in a "relationship" and as best as I can divine, her definition of a relationship is that she gets all the financial benefits of being an escort and none of the bothersome responsibilities of sleeping with an old man. Its just the laziness of the grift. All the benefits, none of the work. She can get a job anytime and pay her own car note and insurance. Either way, she has to work for that monthly car note. Prison cake looks absolutely disgusting, as do those awful extensions. I hate to say it, but if Stan loosened his pocketbook a little or was willing to go overseas, he could do better.

I agree that I didn't like the optics of Chris trying to bodily remove Candace from the table. I DO think he had her best interests at heart because he could see her walking into Ashley's trap, and knows that Candace has done a fairly decent job of staying above the fray for the first part of the season, which is likely part growth and part attempt to rehab her image. She is getting her movies, her songs, her TV roles, and I'm sure that, at some point, she would like to eventually transition into doing more of that and less of HW. But she needs to walk a fine line. She can't be so boring that she doesn't get camera time, but she can't say too much, because she is always disproportionately blamed for whatever drama she gets into because she is much better at using her words as weapons. Ashley is not on the same trajectory as Candace, and so she doesn't need to care about what may come back to cancel her later.

It seems like Ashley had her own bathroom and was willing to share.

LOL, IIRC, Gizelle pulled the same stunt at Ashley's beach house when creepy Michael Darby showed up. For all her dramatics, she ended up sleeping in the same room she was assigned at the beach house.

This was confusing, did anyone ask her? It sounds like a possible Gordon question. Robyn had me cracking up. Girl, put that phone down, you aren't spending the night anywhere else. Such dramatics for the camera. So on the fence with G, he is giving me dirty old man, but I feel some kind of kinship with someone who can fall asleep anywhere, and it looks like he gets into it with Ashley next week and I can't stand Ashley. But it looks like it could be over something gross and he is still gross with that tongue, so I don't know. Ray isn't going to like that he made his blushing fiancee feel so uncomfortable.

sorry, I literally posted this at the same time @TexasGal posted. Let me go into the kitchen and shamefully throw some defenseless salad on myself.

I'd say its very subjective because you and I disagree about it and I'm a reasonable person and I suspect you are too. Where reasonable people disagree about the same thing its subjective. "overtly obviously" what? Verbally abusive? I disagree. I don't think yo momma jokes are verbally abusive and/or verbally intimidating and/or aggressive. I think 'yo momma jokes are just that. Jokes. And since two reasonable people disagree then its subjective. If you came up to me and called said my momma was low budget, even in the middle of an argument I wouldn't think it was verbally abusive. I'd probably be confused, especially if you never met and didn't know my mother. Since you've said that it, for you it would be verbally abusive, then there is room for reasonable minds to disagree and therefore it is subjective. "Mean, heartless and ugly" are adjectives that can be applied to every single woman on this show. Gizelle wearing that Uncle Ben shirt? Mean, heartless and ugly. Every ageist comment that Gizelle makes towards Karen? Mean, heartless and ugly. Gizelle spending an entire weekend getting her harpies and nags to pick on, talk over and gaslight wendy? mean, heartless and ugly. Ashley deciding to pick on mentally unstable Katie? Mean, heartless and ugly. Robyn bringing Gizelle to OZ, isolating Ashley from everyone else, getting in her face and telling her to stop running her mouth? Mean, heartless and ugly. Robyn calling Wendy an asshole? Mean, heartless and ugly. Karen saying that Gizelle went to an institution and had an STD on national TV? Mean, heartless and ugly. Saying that those adjectives ONLY apply to Candace's words and actions doesn't pass the smell test, because they are all done things that can rightfully be called "mean, heartless and ugly" and thats what makes terms like "verbal abuse" "verbal aggression" and "verbal aggression" subjective because they are hard to quantify into universally or commonly accepted rules. But there is far less room for interpretation with physical violence. You said - "The idea that the repercussions are going to be appropriately measured for the offense is a stupid gamble to make and Candace really likes swinging for the fences." To me, saying something like this is suggesting that no one should really say anything because if its unfairly interpreted then its their fault. And I don't think that is particularly reasonable. But it seems like in that sentence you recognize that Candace's offenses are not equal to the response she gets, but you're okay with this inequitable response. You said - "Hey, if that's where she wants to take it that's on her but all in all my position is I ain't gonna feel bad if she does get dragged cause in her case its the cost of doing business. It's stupid to put yourself at risk in the first place and Candace does just that REGULARLY. " If getting physically attacked is the cost of upsetting someone with words, because your words put you at risk for a beating then everyone is putting themselves at risk for a beating and the show should be renamed Bad Girls Club of Potomac

Mia asked Candace's mother about her husband's paycheck when Candace was no more than ten feet away. To me that seems much more personal. And Mia, who said, from the moment she came on camera, that she is "very open" has invited any and all speculation into the origin story of her marriage because she has at least 3 different versions of it. Paid companion is not a stretch and I think its fair game, particularly as Mia won't shut up about being a "boss business bitch" who is just so classy and upscale and it seems pretty clear that Mia slept her way out of the strip club. For me, this would have been more of an honest and inspiring story instead of Mia pretending like she has much of anything to do with the business Gordon built. Mia was in a bad situation, saw a way out and successfully got it. To me, that's a success story, but I can't buy her "I'm so honest" shtick, when I think she is lying about how she even met her husband. I would agree that there is an element of cracking on Mia's big hands and feet as being trans, but I don't think thats any more pervasive than calling Candace or Wendy aggressive, the second they decide they no longer want to be shat all over.

But by this logic, no one should say anything because it could cause someone to haul off and break your jaw, because "little shade" and a "little back and forth" are going to mean different things for different people and you'd have to tailor your response for the strongest person in the room.....who will be the only one talking. And I don't want an hour of Robyn pontificating. So, at that point, I may as well go check out this Squid Game I've been hearing so much about. I think going for the jugular is a reasonable strategy for the same reason Mike Tyson wanted to TKO someone within the first twenty seconds. He fought with fists, she fights with words, both are going to lay their opponent out if they can. HOWEVER, they ALL know that they are only supposed to fight with words. So no one should expect or foresee being physically hit in response to their words. I also think that no one who stepped into the ring with Mike Tyson expected a "yo momma" joke or to be razzed for having big feet.

To me, a big problem with a statement like this is that it is so subjective, whereas the line between violence and words are not. What is verbal abuse? That is almost always going to be different for different people and there isn't a bright, hard line. Some people will say that a 'yo momma joke is verbal abuse, but I would strongly disagree. I think its a joke. Some people would say that anytime a voice is raised or someone speaks in an upset tone that this is verbal abuse. And this is only made more complicated by the fact that people most of the time have to use words to communicate, but really only what, 10% of communication is verbal. So, you can misinterpret tone, or decide that you think the tone a person has adopted makes their words abusive. People have to use words to communicate, but you don't need to use violence or even physical actions to communicate in most situation (sign language being the most obvious). There can be a bright line between words and physical violence, but its much harder to have an agreed upon set of circumstances that can be termed "verbal abuse" and "verbal aggression" I was watching this old episode of American Justice about vigilante justice. One of the cases that was highlighted was that of a guy on the subway in the 90s who was approached by five teens, one of whom asked him for $5. Fearing that he was going to be beaten up and robbed, he shot all five men before they could even make a move against him. Now, verbally, all they ever did was ask for $5. And so the words themselves weren't abusive, aggressive or intimidating. But when you looked at the situation, it was all sorts of shades of grey, and it could be interpreted either as five guys just asking for five bucks or five guys who were toying with their prey before they beat and robbed him. There is a level of subjectivity with words that you don't have, as often, with physical violence. So, I think they are very different and should be treated differently or given different energy.

I don't think all shit stirrers are created equal (and I don't even think candace is one of them, as @drivethroo pointed out, she is often responding to someone, which is likely why Mia came for her). For me, Mia brings nothing to the table. No snappy reads, not even re-tread reads, Mia is just delusional. From the revisionist history between she and G (he now paid her for "conversation" and he saw her dance, but first she served him drinks, and it wasn't stripping, and blah blah blah), to the fact that she went from not knowing her age to not knowing her husbands age, to the fact that she insists that she is some high powered businesswoman when she just isn't. She looks like a melted crayon in the face and G and his rolling tongue are just gross*. I think that Candace is more like a Kenya, and I've always loved a Cruella villain. I don't particularly fault Candace for going low, if these women can't stand the heat, they shouldn't come into Candace's kitchen. Ashley especially loves to play the "but what I said wasn't that bad!" game. But its not because she isn't trying, its because Ashley isn't as fast on her feet. I think Candiace will have a place on the show as long as she wants it. Even Andy knows the value of a good villain, and even last year I didn't hear any chatter about Andy getting rid of her or demoting her.

Colettuceral damage.

I'd say thats a fair enough rule. If you make your mother a subject of the show you should expect that she is discussed on the show. No one has to like it, but if you've chosen to make a person and their struggles public and part of your storyline then you should expect all the positives and negatives that come with it. The only exception I would make would be for children.

If Andy Cohen takes suggestions, I'd like him to give Mia a few live, on air questions about various business terms that a "boss bitch" such as herself should know. And I don't just want a dryly recited definition, I want her to explain how she uses it in her daily live as a "boss business bitch" Because I doubt that Gordon even let her "take over" his businesses. I think there is probably a manager who does most of the work and Gordon let her play "business barbie" for a day or two for the cameras. LOL @ the bolded....happy accidents. Not sure whats going on with Chris, he should just be himself. I think Dre and Eddie are kinda efforlessly cool and Chris may feel loud and awkward around them. This. Exactly. I'm not even entirely sure Candace holds grudges, she just wants to have the last word. And I think this is far more common than people want to admit. Ashley held a grudge, even after she and Candace "cleared the air" and admitted that the grudge was the basis for her writing the statement for Monique. Are they? Its sad that anyone would risk their freedom over a common insult joke genre that often doesn't even require the joke teller to have ever met the mother in question. This is as ridiculous as someone trying to beat up Triumph, the insult comedy dog. Or trying to beat up a comedian for razzing you if you sit in the front row of a comedy show. Beating someone up for a 'yo momma joke doesn't say anything great about that person, other than that they can't take a joke so maybe its best they not be out and about in the community.

Karen and Gizelle have been having the same fight for like three seasons and both are in their 50s. Ashley admitted that she only wrote the statement for Monique to get back at Candace, after the two had made up. Karen was talking about Gizelle wishing death on Ray for something she said like in season 3. So, I don't think that anyone should suggest that not letting things go is reserved to Candace. And I'd maintain that the two lowest points in the show was Ashley viciously going after a very clearly mentally unstable Katie and only apologizing after Gizelle pretty much forced her and Gizelle wearing that Uncle Ben t-shirt for Karen's "press conference".

I think I'd consider what is being thrown and the "sincerity" of the throw in determining intent. If someone weakly throws a nerf ball in my general direction, I'm not going to see the same violent intent in that as if someone throws a ninja throwing star directly at my with skill and might. I'd be more inclined to assume the second person had a violent intent. A butter knife, at least in California, is seen more along the lines of the Nerf ball and not the ninja star.

I can buy that Candace didn't know about Mia's mother because the only thing that we know she said about Mia's mother wasn't specific and was, IMO, a clear take on a 'yo momma joke using Mia's initial barb and in fact her exact words. Which doesn't seem to indicate any specific knowledge about Mia's mom. If Mia had said Candace was a dork, I highly suspect the comeback would have been "yo' momma is a dork" I also think that Mia wasn't a super famous, high profile entity prior to this show and a lot of records are sealed for family court and if Mia's mom was in jail for 20 years, she would have been sentenced in the early 2000's. Some stuff would have been online and would have been transferred online, but I'm not sure how much, and if it was a drug charge it could have been state or federal (I'd imagine), though 20 years, to me, seems like it would be more of a federal charge. All this to say that I don't think it was a matter of Googling Mia and easily finding out about her mother. I don't think Gizelle and Robyn are so close with Candace that they told her and Wendy only found out pretty recently and while she and Candace are friends Wendy also has a family, a one wick candle business and a zoom class we've seen her teach. Kiki'ing with Candace may not have been top of mind, and for me, that's Mia's business to tell, so if I were in Wendy's position I wouldn't put it out there to anyone.

Mia uses her mother's recovery the same way Ashley uses motherhood. Mia drags her mother on national TV and browbeats her for not watching her kids enough. Mia drags her mother on TV and has her relive her darkest and most shameful moments on national TV. She really doesn't think that is going to invite cruel commentary from the general public? Life itself is going to invite cruel commentary and if her mother is really that fragile, then I don't know why Mia thinks a change in environment and situation so that she can now watch Mia's kids would be any good for her. If a person she doesn't know, who doesn't know her, calling her low budget is going to send her to relapse then why is Mia bringing her onto this show in the first place? All of these women should be treated equally. Mia used Candace's mother to hurt her. Candace used Mia's mother to hurt her. And the only difference is that it is highly likely that Mia knew about Candace's strained relationship with her mother before she did it, and Candace did not know about Mia's mother and made an offhand 'yo momma style joke.

What Dorothy said is irrelevant. Mia is the one who made the decision to entertain and engage in gossip about someone she doesn't know standing 10 feet away. Mia wasn't asking Dorothy because she cared. If she cared she could have asked candace. Who was there and whose number she has through the floss posse group text. But I refuse to believe that Mia joined this show and didn't watch past seasons. If that's the case she knew about the issues between Dorothy and candace and decided to try to hurt candace by using her mom. And even if she didn't know about their strained relationship Mia used Dorothy to hurt candace because she was never under duress to entertain or start that conversation. What Dorothy did doesn't change mias intent. Candace made a yo momma joke about mias mom without knowing her at all. Since mias mom wasn't there to hear the comment it was clearly meant to hurt Mia. The same way Mia used Dorothy to hurt candace.

I dont think that they all have made their mothers struggles a storyline. And I don't think everyone has made it a point to approach someone else's mother without knowing them to get tea when the subject was 10 feet away. So, I think the comparison doesn't stand because the situations are different and distinct.

It is a massive collection. Way way way back in the day they only had the Getty villa in Malibu and the collection was so massive they would rotate it like every 6 months IIRC. The villa is now dedicated to Greek, Roman and esreuscian (sp) art and history. Which is....glorious since I love Greek and Roman history and art. The center on the hill is wonderful but it's so much to see!!!!

Candace was absolutely making a yo momma joke. "'Yo momma is low budget" is pretty clearly along the lines of a yo momma joke particularly as candace doesn't know Mias mother. Mia didn't have to ask Dorothy about chris"s pay even if dot was willing to talk about it. So mia put mothers into the mix between she and candace by entertaining and encouraging the conversation. Therefore she should not expect that her mother will be off limits when candace comes for her. Particularly as Mia has put her mother and her problems on display on national TV for a storyline.

LOL. I live in California and the Getty museum and villa are a huge deal. So I always assumed he was just a nice rich guy. Not so! If you have HULU, there is an FX show called TRUST that is a drama about the kidnapping of his grandson. Very interesting. Long story short, everyone assumed that with the last name Getty you could ransom the grandson... but Getty was one of those guys who really wanted to haggle the ransom.