RealReality

I think the issue is that Mia came in strong saying that she keeps it all the way real, but that claim seems superficial. It's like she is perfectly honest about having vaginal surgery in a room full of strangers. But then she can't remember how old she is or how old her husband is. She is honest about meeting her husband while she worked in a strip club, but it took like 10 recitations for her to get to some iteration of what is maybe the truth. First she was a bartender and then she just hung out in her ballgown and eventually she admitted to stripping. I half expected her to say she was cooking lobsters and steaks in the back and met G because he wanted to compliment her cooking. It's a combination of insisting your honest and forthright and then lying about the most bizarre stuff. Had she just started out with "he is 68 and I met him when I was a stripper" I don't think anyone would have had more than a raised eyebrow.

LMAO!

I wish them ALL luck and the restraint and maturity not to respond to words with physical violence, since they chose to be on a show about verbal shit slinging. I haven't looked for saints since touched by an angel was cancelled. LOL. Are they on that show? That man is truly unappealing and he should be thanking god every day he found a woman who wanted to settle down with a man wearing THOSE pearls. Like I'm about making a statement about gender but the stuff A1 wears is so embarrassingly tacky. I wonder if be uses the same stylist as gizelle.

I don't see how I've misinterpreted what you've said. What you're saying is that candace MUST be doing something out of bounds or particularly egregious because she was physically assaulted. To me, it's a backwards logic that posits that what candace must be doing something particularly bad because she was physically attacked. I think that's a dangerous position but not an uncommon one.

I really was hoping that we'd see more of candace pursuing her MBA. I wanted to meet her classmates because I'm sure a few of them are interesting and run the gamut from rich to poor, politically connected, prior work experience, etc, etc. I also just love college campuses so I would have enjoyed some scenes filmed there. Although apparently Howard has some problems with their dorms. I think candace is an EQUAL participant. My issue comes with the implication that she is so much worse and deserves beatings.

Guess it wasnt very aggressive at all since, by your logic, the reaction determines whether someone's words or actions crossed a line. So there are no real rules, since you'll determine the propriety of the words AFTER the response to the words. In which case, you're kinda saying that everyone who is physically attacked for speaking had it coming. And that, to me, is an extremely dangerous mindset. ***************** Long story short, everyone takes a risk that they will encounter a violent weirdo and if the idea is that you have to curb yourself because you could get attacked you're on the way to only allowing the physically strongest people to speak. And that, again to me, is an extremely dangerous position. *************** You mention hypotheticald but a lot of your reasoning rests on the hypothetical reactions of hypothetical people. You say that there are people in the world who would beat candace for what she says and does on the show, but those are all hypothetical people in hypothetical situations. The reason I mention the hypotheticals is because the biggest reason I've ever heard that candace is doing anything so terrible to deserve a beating is because she was previously physically attacked and because hypothetical "people" would also physically attack her for what No one really has any other reason that can stand up to even mild scrutiny. The reasons I've seen range from "candace takes low blows so she should get beat because if she was in the streets some people would beat her ass" Okay, but gizelle took very low blows with Karen. Ashley took low blows with Katie and with Karen (by making prison rape jokes about ray). Now it's "well candace physically invades people's space" Okay, well Mia has repeatedly done this and so has Robyn. And technically so has Ashley, who kept showing up someplace she was specifically told to leave. So, to me, if none of these reasons stand up to scrutiny it shows that there are simply different rules applied to candace. And that's cool but to me, it's dangerous to rely on any reasoning that includes "well, she got beat before so if she gets beat again it's her fault"

Okay, so then the result determines how bad the words are. In other words, if someone gets hit, they MUST have "taken it to the next level" Because saying there must be something particularly wrong with what candace says or does because she is the only one who for physically attacked sounds like just that. Even though multiple cast members have done way worse and haven't gotten beaten. If gizelle or Ashley had been attacked then it would have meant that they had "taken it to the next level?" Mia had repeatedly invaded personal space and so has Robyn. So, by your definition, they too were "taking it to the next level" Mia, in one season, has done this multiple times and robyn has at least done it twice. Robyn went so far as to chase after monique daring her to fight. Anyone who is physically violent can argue that they were "provoked" into it. There were a lot of "what did you say to him girl?" type comments when pictures of Rhiannas busted face went public. Candace hasn't been dragged away for being physically aggressive or violent. Chris has already said that he tries to ger candace to leave because people like Ashley and Mia are trying to use her for a moment. And LOL, I guess candace wasn't so "physically aggressive" that Ashley went right back into her house after being TOLD to leave. Ashley literally invaded someone's personal space after having been told to stop and leave. Yet someone she didn't "take it to the next level?" I mostly mention this so people consider whether they are applying the same standards to everyone on the show. Because it sure doesn't seem like it to me.

Gizelles entire life looks broke. It's hard for me to entertain her nonsense when she had a party on a construction site at her ramshackle frankenhouse. When she said that she was still trying to paste on "wings" to that monstrosity I couldn't believe my ears.

Is unnecessary risk determined by the result? Because what gizelle did to Karen was much lower than what candace said about mias mom, IMO. Ashley picking on a mentally unstable woman seems much lower, much less necessary and much riskier than anything candace has said or done. If wendy had actually dragged gizelle would the general consensus be that gizelle must have taken unnecessary risks because she got physically attacked? Or that gizelle lives in a fantasy land when she imagined she could talk shit about someone's marriage and husband and not get her ass handed to her? I'm going to try to put this in the candace thread but am not sure how.

Figured out how to move my response to the candace thread.

I dont know, Mia seems to peddle in half truths, misrepresentations and outright lies. Given her history on inconsequential stuff like "how old is your husband?" I'd kinds want to see receipts on the massage envy and "giving" her a business. The funny thing to me is that even if Mia was stripper who slept her way to being a trophy wife, I'd STILL call that a win, because she found a way to make the best out of a horrible situation. Ol' girl used what she had to move on up to a deluxe apartment in the sky. And I haven't even given it away for months!

Let me just say thank you to you all. I really love reading all these different perspectives since I haven't had relevant experience in this area. Its really to just see condola as being wrong and ridiculous but I suspected there would be different considerations.

Lawrence 100% gets pretty privilege. I think those worlds like venture capital and finance has a "look" even in tech. I dont remember any homely people around that table. Little surprised they aren't wearing Patagonia vests, LOL. I couldn't even imagine how much Lawrence is renting that apartment for each month. I have a friend who lived in an apartment by Alamo park/painted ladies. I think she had like 6 roommates. The rent is so nuts. It's interesting because I didn't think Lawrence was in finance and it seemed like a capital firm.

I swear to you that this thought popped into my mind as I was at the gym this morning. If she has had work done, it's been well done. I dont even know that gizelle was being shady when she talked about candaces style. Candace has the body to buy clothes off the internet. Gizelle and i, like most normal women, have to get into the dressing room with a three way mirror to see how that fits before we buy. I think candaces style is cute, it's a callback to the 80s and 90s. But lordt if I started walking around in bike shorts and a crop top I'd end up on a "people of Walmart" website.

Cardi B. had a hit song and kept talking about her checks from Mona Scott. K.Michelle and Remy Ma both had hit songs and stayed on their respective reality shows. So maybe candace stays and maybe she goes. Either way it'll be her decision :)

I dont think it's as black and white as saying that she somehow couldn't say no. However, it seems clear to me that mias mom is not as savvy about reality TV as Mia. So "sharing her story" to a national audience would have been an easy thing for Mia to pressure her into. Mia however, knew better and knew that she wasn't just getting her mom on TV to share an inspirational story but was getting her on TV to exploit her addiction and to berate her on national TV. So, yeah, the pressuring and taking advantage narrative works for me. Mias mother was no Dorothy, reveling in being on TV. Nothing about her demeanor or styling said that. She looked extremely uncomfortable. And I don't take "well she signed a release" as per se proof that Mia didn't misrepresent and exploit her. All.the guys on bumfights signed releases too.

As a bay area resident I cosign all of this. Prices up here are bananas and I keep trying to encourage people to move to Texas.

The visal of that pig in the kiddie pool with the head on, reclining while he smoked had me laughing out loud. It kinda reminded me of the Kanye cover with the bear.

I dont often feel anything but contempt for Ashley but watching her have to kiss Michael to keep him from gushing over Juan was sad. And then the blindfold was cringey. He has so little respect for her that he can't even pretend to like her on national TV. It's sad. At least gizelle got a friendly fist bump from Jamal.

the reasoning is exactly the same. "well, its okay, because they got paid!" LOL, Mia is trying to help herself. Periodt. LOL, which part showed Mia caring for her mom, the part where she dragged her on TV and berated her for not being "available enough" for her? The part where she took a recovering addict and made her relieve her painful past for a national TV audience? Or was it the part where she shit talked her mom on national TV after she got annoyed with G and made sure to do it when her mom wasn't around to respond? Or was it the part where she reminded her recovering addict of a mother how neglectful she was in front of a national TV audience? Which part of this was caring for her mother? Or was it making sure her mom got a check, because as long as she gets paid, its okay to exploit her?

LOL, Candiace isn't any more hateful than any other person on that stage. Gizelle wore a tee-shirt to hate on a man who has been nothing but kind to her and her "friend" of 20 years. Thats hateful. Ashley said she had squashed her beef with Candace and then turned around to write a statement for Monique just to "get back" at her. Ashley also made prison rape jokes about Ray, a man who has been nothing but kind to her. Ashley undertook to viciously pick on Katie when she was clearly struggling mentally. Thats hateful. But suddenly Ashley is some paragon of motherly kindness. LOL. Candace responds when people come at her, and then they get mad when she hurts their feelings. Maybe stop coming at her. Ashley made those jokes about Ray and he never came at her and it was fully unprovoked. But suddenly Candiace is especially hateful. LOL. There is nothing to suggest that Candiace would be jealous of a baby, there is nothing that suggests she is jealous of any of them. And certainly not jealous of Ashley Darby who embarrasses herself staying married to a sexual predator who is very obviously in love with another man. Everytime I see Candace and Chris film their confessionals together, they look like they sincerely like each other. Everytime Michael looks at Ashley, he legit looks disgusted. LOL, my parents raised four children full time and were fine. So, there is nothing to suggest there is "too much" on his plate. Though there is likely quite a bit on her plate, and thats GREAT for her. It seems a much better plan to pursue your career opportunities first before having a family because its very hard to do it the other way. When did Nene Leakes drop her last album? When was her last BET movie? Ashley is in the unenviable position of having to support her family of leeches who are also on the Darby gravy train. And NOTHING Ashley has done has worked out, her restaurant failed, her song flopped and instead of being smart and taking some time after her second child, she is intent on having a third. She has a giant platform and has done nothing with it. Robyn has her hats, Wendy has her candles, Karen has LaDame, Candace has her music and her movie, even Gizelle had her makeup line and she and Robyn have the podcast. Ashley is the only one who is completely pissing away this opportunity. Why isn't she doing daily yoga videos? With her second should could have easily done Yoga for Mommies, or Yoga to bounce back, or whatever. Instead she has managed to do nothing, but make more kids with a gremlin who is in love with another man.

Mia shouldn't have encouraged her mother to risk her sobriety for a pittance of a reality TV show payment. If money was an issue, she should have insisted she pay her mom a ton for whatever babysitting she did. I think Mia and her mom are just as toxic. Dragging your struggling mother on TV so you can exploit her drug addiction and painful past for a reality show paycheck is nothing I'd root for. Whenever people handwave away the exploitation of others with a "well, they got paid!" I'm reminded of that guy who did those bum fight videos, and how he used the same justification for exploiting vulnerable people. If Mia thinks anything she does is justified because someone got paid off, then she seems far more careless than Candace with her own mother. Why do you think Dorothy is supporting them? She hasn't come out and said it, and she certainly isn't shy about explicitly saying she is doing so. Candace works and seems to be doing fine, so I'm not sure why there is a preoccupation with what Chris is doing or why Candace having a child has much of anything to do with what Chris needs.

I'm not sure why Candace having a child would be couched in terms of what Chris needs or doesn't need. Candace so far had that song playing about 10 times on the show, she released a full length album and Andy mentioned it on the show. Her song was #5 on iTunes. Anita Baker gave her song/album a shout out. She had her BET holiday movie, she had her TV pilot. AND she is getting her MBA from Howard. She is actually making moves, so to me she is doing a great job of striking while the iron is hot. LOL, Candace is a good singer, to me, its the same as with Azelia Banks, people will say her music is so terrible, but its a function of simply not liking her and you'll find quite a few who have never listened to a song. Most people who are objective are like "Azelia Banks is super talented, I wish she would get the hell off twitter" I don't at all think Ashley will get a big payout from Michael Darby. That man is an entitled asshole and if Ashley doesn't think that applies to her, she had better watch herself. Michael never seemed to want kids, but they were thrust on him. I've talked about and looked at ice cream with more passion and desire than Michael has for his wife and second family. Real Estate was one of the easiest way to launder and hide money in the 80s and 90s. Now he is getting into making movies without any particular reason why, and thats another way to launder and hide money. He had a whole separate family, in another country, IIRC and so he has a lot of opportunity to funnel money to LLCs and trusts using his children and taking advantage of their citizenship. And even his own citizenship status if he is also a citizen of Australia. I've always been suspicious of Michael's business. She will end up getting what Michael feels like he should give her to support those kids. It would be a smart move to funnel all his recognized money into this movie thing, claim it went bust and now he cannot pay Ashley as much child support. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Michael sought counsel the minute Ashley got pregnant the first time.

And this is what makes Mia's decision much worse IMO. Dorothy is perfectly happy to be on camera, be it good or bad, shittalking or whatever. Dorotny gives as good as she gets. Mia's mother on the other hand is just restarting a relationship with her daughter and she has been turning over a new leaf, being sober, spending time with her grandchildren and getting healthy after a lifetime in prison. Why would Mia encourage her mother to risk her sobriety with all the stress and conflict and public embarrassment that comes with being on a reality show? Mia consistently berated her on camera and then at the end of the season told a one sided story about how awful her mother is. That woman always looks like she is trying her best, and Candace is right that she looks extremely uncomfortable sharing these painful parts of her life on camera. Mia's justification that her mother "wanted" to "share her story" sounds like something Mia told her to get her to agree.