ReadMeLattice

GPAs in many areas are now out of 5.0 because of AP and honors classes -- which again, Leah obviously wasn't taking so sorry for bringing that up. But yeah, it blows my mind. The incoming class at the university where I teach (which is top 40, but definitely not top 10) has an AVERAGE GPA of 4.8 and an average SAT score hovering around 1510. The competition is insane.

@Tatum, a 3.0 isn't terrible, though even at middling schools average GPAs are often above 4.0 now because of honors and AP classes, which are available nearly everywhere (but which Leah obviously wasn't taking). But a 3.0 average of all incoming students means quite a few had even lower grades, which is pretty bad-- quite a few C students are going into that school. And that's in Leah's neighborhood. They aren't getting Bs and Cs at a high level or mediocre or even slightly below average public school...they're getting them alongside *Leah*. But yes, your first comment is also part of my reaction...they're B students but getting a 700 total on the SAT?! Then grade inflation is definitely happening. Look, it's fine to have schools that cater to mediocre students. It's even a good idea. But if Leah is being accepted without conditions and your average incoming SAT score is 690, you're basically a remedial school marketing itself as a research university/liberal arts college. And that's weird. I wonder how much it costs. Hope the financial aid is at least very very good, or it's a racket.

It changed from 1600 to 2400 around 2006-2007. Last year, they entirely scrapped the old SAT and it changed back to 1600. That's why it's confusing...it's a new test but has gone back to 1600, which people still think of as "old." I know because I had to console many a rabid, anxious parent while teaching a summer SAT boot camp, lol. But hey, at least they care about their kids' education.

Ok, so on the new SAT 1600 scale the average incoming student at WVSU has a score of around 690. Dang. I've had immigrant students who very literally could barely converse in English who were getting in the 1000 range to start. And a GPA of 3.03 is average there. The worst part of all of this? They have a 45% admissions rate. So Leah was chosen over 55% of applicants. And how low are THEIR scores and grades?!?! I am seriously terrified. I've taught many community college students where I live, as well as undergrads at a large research university, and all of them are bright and honestly often at comparable levels. I'm not being snobby about this, I'm just truly shocked at the obviously large-scale epidemic of a lack of education in their region.

870?!?! The new SAT is out of 1600 again, so are you sure? That's still quite low, but...yikes. Holy fucking shit. I tutor kids in the SAT on the side and I thought some of them were at a low level... they're all getting 1100s or above and we have to warn them that with a 1300 or less (out of 1600) they likely won't get into a top-tier school. It's gotten super competitive. We should just tell them to head to Leah's neighborhood, I guess. They'd be geniuses.

I think Farrah comes in last in terms of likability, but she's not abusive to Sophia or animals and I think that trumps most things morally. Jenelle, Leah, Maci (well to her unborn baby but still), Amber, and Cate/TyTy have ALL shown signs of child or animal abuse or neglect. Only Kail, Farrah, and Chelsea have not. On a show called Teen Mom. And I don't happen to like any of the three that don't (Kail and Farrah are givens and I know Chelsea is a favorite but I find her, while a nice person, deeply unlikable personally), but still, I think the abuse and neglect really come first. That is terrifying.

Both are fame whores. We have no way of knowing whether the separation or reunion is more fake. I don't feel bad for either one of them at all. Javi tried to play the good guy, but his countless tabloid interviews reveal otherwise. He's as corrupt as anybody.

"My child is PROTECTED while in my care" Unlike your penis when you have sex...

Seriously, you need a GUN to "protect yourself?" Ridiculous. #germy4trump is an amazing hashtag btw.

#whitetrashheaven

Holy shit, that gun photo.

I mean I like my wine, probably too much, so I'm not trying to be holier than thou, but I don't have kids, and I've severely cut back just because I'm starting to go to fertility workup appointments to consider conceiving...I just majorly side eye that. Especially because of the fake surprise pregnancy. She knows she was drinking heavily. This isn't one beer or one glass of champagne...

Agree with all. If they aren't happy with the results from Bethany and think they were misled or manipulated, they could have said that at any point during the last 7 years rather than repeatedly taking paychecks from MTV, Couples Therapy, and Bethany itself for praising it and saying how much they loved their situation and decision. That's why I don't buy this "manipulation" stuff when it comes to C&T (not doubting it has happened to other teens), in addition to the fact that they have repeatedly explicitly stated the rules they choose not to follow when it comes to the adoption. If you know what it would take for you to see Carly and you won't do it because of your pride (in Tyler's case)/it will make Tyler (Cate's actual love) mad, you don't actually care about her as deeply as you say, and definitely wouldn't have at age 16. The gift rhetoric is just entitlement from C&T. It makes them feel special, I'm sure. Guess what, there are many fertile couples and many infertile or semi-infertile ones. It isn't special to have a child as a teen...it's special to give any child, no matter how you get it, a good life. They said that's what they were doing and now want to act like they're the selfless ones in the scenario and Carly's parents "owe" them for life, or at least until age 18 when they get her back after renting her out to some randos. Wtf. That is not how it works.

Studies show most biological parents are happy with their decision.

You're right, we can't really know...but that level of obsession with it to the point you're talking about it a ton, constantly joking about being drunk,going on beer runs and party weekends (seemingly very frequently...) and making it a prominent part of your wedding, and drinking throughout a pregnancy...it seems like a lot to me. Maybe it's mostly for show? She used to live in a pretty hardcore party house...she may have chilled out since most recent baby though?

White infants, maybe, but we don't even know that Carly's brother is white. It's sad that white babies are considered more "desirable." And I agree that Bethany is creepy. Their main purpose is to push teens away from abortion. But manipulated? Tyler and Cate always called this a semi open adoption. They both very explicitly stated their home was abusive and they didn't want a baby there. They had no money, April and Butch were both abusers and addicts and Butch was in and out of prison. They both seemed very aware of what that would mean for Carly and said they didn't want that for her, so a different set of parents would be better. Then they accepted Bethany money and multiple TV contracts to pontificate about adoption and their positive experience. They are aware now of the rules they are breaking and have broken for years, and have explicitly said so many times. Their initial conversations about the adoption on the show never indicated they thought it would be open...that's something that's come over time with increased urgency and higher demands as they've continued to obsess over Carly on TV and make money off her story. I also think the adoptive parents aren't the biggest winners in this scenario...Carly is. Imagine her horrendous life otherwise. My other issue with the "gift" idea is the entitlement. Cate and Tyler did not have unprotected sex repeatedly as a gift for others. They did it as uneducated, neglected, drug addicted teens. I can have empathy for that, but they gave their baby away to give a gift to HER so she wouldn't have to be severely abused like they were. The "gift" was not to the parents, who are infertile like millions of other couples. The gift was supposedly for Carly. Somehow that's gotten twisted and been made into something selfless for B&T personally. It's not. They gave a gift to Carly as well-- a non abusive home.

All of them have reprehensible qualities... Kail's racism, Jenelle's child neglect, Farrah's screaming and rudeness, Maci's pregnancy drinking/self righteousness, Leah's child neglect (yup I said it twice), Cate's laziness and entitlement about adoption, Amber's laziness and Matt delusions...could say the same about the guys too. Chelsea is really pretty mediocre/basic but she comes off as a saint.

Smoking pot is much less potentially harmful to a kid than heavy drinking imo, though of course neither is ideal. But the main issue is that she doesn't seem to mind the fact that she was drunk throughout her pregnancy. I agree that generally drinking is fine, even a good amount. But Maci binge drinks extremely frequently.

I was always highly pro choice and for abortion. This show has definitely validated and reinforced that long held worldview. I am pro adoption as well, though it has more long term emotional consequences in many cases. Like it or not, there is going to be some degree of trauma for someone in that situation. However, it can also bring a great deal of joy. I don't think Cate and Tyler are at all a good example of adoption. The hatred due to Farrah's porn in those reviews is super ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons to dislike Farrah greatly. Making porn is not one of them. She's the only one who hasn't or doesn't do drugs in front of her child, hasn't had another kid, and hasn't gone through multiple new "fathers" for Sophia. Is she mother of the year, no, but all the other TMs and TM2s could qualify imo as straight up neglectful or abusive except for Chelsea and Kail (questionable but can't think of anything done directly to the kids), with Maci questionable due to heavy pregnancy drinking.

It's also not actually that enormous of a "gift." B&T are a nice, stable, financially well off couple. They didn't need C&T in order to adopt. They've adopted since Carly and I really doubt the bio parents of their son give them this kind of crap. People procreate all the time... it's not some miracle that only C&T can provide for others.

I think a lot of people, especially in Catelynn and Tyler's "set," which I can't describe without being offensive, think that genes mean rights. I think it's a cultural thing. If I had gotten pregnant and decided to choose an adoptive parent, my parents would have thought that the most appropriate option next to abortion. I think a significant segment of the population doesn't feel that way and thinks that if you gave birth or physically donated the sperm, you are the parent no matter what. That is very disturbing to me and I see it reflected by a lot of C&T's "fans."

She called her barren?! Yeah, no sympathy. She is Carly's mother. Stfu.

This definitely hasn't made me see adoption in a less positive light. It's made me see Cate and Tyler in a less positive light. They may or may not have been deceived to an extent when they were young, but previously they both called it a "semi open" adoption. They know the rules they've broken. They may have been fed stories, but they also 1) would have otherwise raised Carly in a home with at least two abusive addicts and 2) haven't kept the agreements they fully know they had (not talking about them on screen, sharing photos online). So it's hard for me to feel that bad for them in that regard. They could choose to keep the agreements they have now, and they repeatedly do not. They also haven't gone to school and neither one works, which was supposedly part of the reason for the adoption. I do feel bad that both of them were severely abused throughout their childhoods. But that's unfortunately not related to the adoption except that it made their environment less conducive to raising a child. I'm sorry but regardless of Bethany's relative shadiness, it was a legal adoption and Carly only has one set of parents. Parents that are being woefully mistreated.

There are many complaints about Bethany so I have to agree there. However, 1) they aren't adhering to B&T's requests or their side of the agreements. They've been explicitly asked for years not go discuss B&T on camera. Instead, they regularly badmouth them. They've been explicitly told not to post pictures on social media...Tyler does it anyway. If they want B&T to adhere to their very unofficial agreement, they have to do so too. They don't. 2) A minimal amount of research, and their own adoption papers, would tell them that the agreement isn't legally binding and that they have zero rights. I know they're not the brightest, but they have money. They could have gotten legal advice and figured that out if Bethany truly lied to them. They also could have read their own, very clearly stated documents. That agreement wasn't exactly rocket science/legalese. If B&T cut them off, I'd personally respect them far more. They'd be asserting themselves as the actual parents, which would be much kinder in some ways to C&T than what's gone on so far. I think their biggest issue is that they are kind of pushovers.

Yeah, I don't get it either...both sets of two weddings seem equally tacky and ridiculous to me personally, it doesn't really matter to me who "loved" each other or not at the time-- the events can still be tacky and unnecessary. I do not understand the huge expensive wedding thing or the multiple wedding thing. I know it's likely cultural for these girls but I don't understand it. What does make me sad is that their entire lives appear to revolve around one event. At the same time, on another level, I'm torn because weddings are a personal decision and I don't get ripping anybody for them. If it's what works for them, cool. Chelsea has always seemed quite materialistic and immature to me, and I wouldn't want to spend more than a few minutes with her IRL. But I'm glad she's happy.